PPE 2
For those wanted an expanded case on pacovf, here you go.
There is an unavoidable physical and neurological difference in the way one reacts to receiving their role PM, dependent on the alignment contained therein. Even the most self-aware are unable to avoid this; they can only attempt to conceal it. This is not new information.
I believe the “newness” of the scum player (as defined by experience playing the game, especially on a forum) has a great effect on this phenomenon. The newer scum players can be jumpier when under suspicion or more excited from the start of the game. There are of course other signs, but these two are relevant today.
Not exactly sure why you need so much introduction, but huh cool.
In estimating pacovf’s alignment, I had the unique opportunity to see his very first moments of the game during night zero without needing to be scum partners with him due to the neighborhood mechanic of this setup. As mentioned, it is my opinion that his opening posts were that of an overly-excited player, most likely due to rolling scum. I make this statement based on the cadence and punctuation choices made in those posts, which are mirrored in his first posts of the game. They are staccato in nature, with short bursts separated not with periods but with commas, to a point of run-on sentences. Compare that with his pre-game posts, especially when he explains his availability, and there is a striking difference. So we have a pre-alignment sample and post-alignment sample, with significant change. Upon arriving in the QT, the absolute first impression I had from pacovf’s posts was “that’s a super excited newbie scum.” Upon arriving at the opened game thread, it was solidified.
This is genuinely funny, so thanks for that. For the rest, this is purely a meta thing. Go read Newbie Mafia, where I act exactly the same way, and where I was town.
This leads into his turn to silence after I intimated that I had developed opinions. I never said they were opinions of him (or Teproc), and yet he stopped talking. How can one who is so excited as to post in such a manner previously then stop completely? I say it was him being jumpy due to alignment. One cannot know if there are N0 powers to worry about. Perhaps he thought I had taken action already?
I have answered to this already... You posted your "I have thoughts" comment after I stopped discussing the setup with Teproc, not the other way around. And your comment made clear that you didn't want to share those thoughts, so I didn't answer.
Teproc had been roughly just as active as I had been in the QT, and he didn't post anything after your comment either. Yet you don't find him scummy for it.
On a separate note, I made much of his Lannister assumptions. It is a fair statement to say that my explanation made it seem like I was not thinking of the line in our own QT explaining that to empower ourselves, Lannister as a house would need to cease to exist. However, my point was that pacovf’s concern for the Lannisters, and their power, was too great for someone who was supposedly unaware of any of that House’s members or its power. As someone who I believe is knowledgeable of the series, that he would defend the Lannisters against the Starks also struck me as incongruous with a town alignment, I think. Was he just being thorough in examining the relative strength of our house power against imagined other powers? That’s a weak defense, in my eyes.
Sorry, but this is bull. For starters, your original point is:
You starts off with an argument that we should not actively empower our house because House Lannister also has a power. Why House Lannister? How would we know the Lannisters were in the game? Why Lannister's power and not Baratheon or some other big name? Specifically, Lannister. Clearly, there is also scum in Lannister.
So don't pretend this wasn't a scumslip argument. Try to disguise it as much as you want now, this is what it was. As for what you are accusing me of right now, Witherweaver did the same thing a couple of pages ago, and I responded to it then.
Then there is his assumption, clearly stated in the QT, that scum are or will attempt to be in all houses. “Thinking like scum” is a standard scum tell, so much so that it is generally disregarded. Acting like scum, though, is the true tell to be ignored. I say this because his reasoning for mentioning this idea wasn’t in an attempt to protect town, such as “you know, I think scum might do X so we should think about doing Y.” I think he was being honest, in that, as scum, he thought it was best for his faction.
I've said it after you first accused me, I'll say it again now. Most people (XP, Ichi, Robz, and Teproc in the quicktopic: that's everybody but Hydrad and WW, before you posted your case) reached the same conclusion than me, that scum either already was, or would soon get, in all the Houses. Why it's a scumtell for me, but not for everybody else?
There’s the scum QT joke, which by itself is a bit scummy. Most agree, including pacovf himself.
No, I've never said that I agree. I've said it's your only argument that can't be
proven wrong. That doesn't mean I think it is a good one, far from it.
This is the gist of my case on pacovf, BEFORE having presented any of this in thread. In fact, this is basically just off the QT. Since the game started, and I’ve put pressure on pacovf via vote/case/argument, I believe his actions and reactions have been truly scummy, as well. Briefly:
--he call the case ridiculous, without merit, impossible to respond to, etc. This is a standard scum response. It’s a non-defense.
I've already responded to your case, briefly after you posted it. In fact, I am only restating my response from then now. It is only when you decided that you would stop making sense that I started saying those things.
--he’s been at least slightly annoyed to exasperated at multiple points during the day, too much so. Exasperation can often be a town tell, but not this type.
Yes, I find this exasperating. I've already addressed this case, and said why I think it is a bad one. Yet you keep bringing it up, not changing a iota, despite parts of it being incoherent. You are, for example, forgetting your "Pacovf must have asked about who was in the quicktopic" and "people suggesting roles are unblockable are scummy" arguments, which were both refuted on the spot. I have a set amount of patience for dealing with nonsensical cases, and it's been running dry for a while now.
I've also been annoyed (and stated so in the quicktopic) by the fact that, despite your initial case being solely based on the QT, and hence unverifiable, and despite Teproc, the other person in the QT, vehemently disagreeing with you, some people were still more than willing to consider your case, which was in essence a your-word-against-mine case.
--he’s tried to deflect and/or change the subject multiple times instead of just closing the topic with a response. An analogy would be if I asked Eevee if the police station is on Main Street and he tells me the pub is on Front Street. Why didn’t Eevee want to tell me where the police station was?
Never ever done this. I have always addressed your points, no matter how bad I thought they were. The only thing I've refused to do was to repeat what I had already said beforehand.
This, by the way, is the last time I repeat my original defense to your original case.
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Topic: M50: A Song Of Ice And Fire Mafia - Town Wins! (Read 335715 times)