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[Witherweaver]

Hmm I'm wondering the if we get ww to come to baratheon? If we vote him to control the power would that be better?

How long do you expect me to live, though?

[Hydrad]

Hmm I'm wondering the if we get ww to come to baratheon? If we vote him to control the power would that be better?

How long do you expect me to live, though?

Even if it's only one night getting at least one potential vig shot from town is better then nothing right?

[pacovf]

I've got the feeling we won't be able to both empower Lannister and get WW to Baratheon. Not today, not ever. Hmm.

Even not accepting people into House Targaryen, I think choosing not to share your power is betting on the wrong table. But it's your call, not mine.

[Hydrad]

Ok so heres a decent way to go around this I think.

baratheon = 2 people right now

lannister = 4

tar = 3

stark = 3

houseless = 1



So if we get WW to move to baratheon

we have

baratheon = 3 tar = 2

then we have lannister move 2 people into baratheon and baratheon gives one person to lannister

so then we are at

baratheon = 4 lannister = 3

Then we get ichi to join baratheon

baratheon = 5 people and we are now empowered with WW to control it if its a vig

then lannister gives one person to tar and tar gives one person to lannister

lannister = 3 tar = 2

then finally stark gives one person to lannister

lannister = 4 stark = 2

This way lannister should also be empowered at this point

so we would have

baratheon = 5 (with WW)
lannister = 4 (one from each house)
stark = 2
tar = 2


Although this could completely change based on what the tar house power and stuff is. But its a suggestion I guess

[pacovf]

then lannister gives one person to tar

7

It seems like Targaryen will not accept this.

I also dislike leaving only two people in one house. If we lynch one of them, scum can kill the other during the night, and then the house dies.

[ashersky]

Anyone suggesting house roles are super awesome invincible roles are crazy scummy.  Oh hey, look!  It's pacovf!

We have no clue if scum can block, strongman, etc. through house powers.

[XerxesPraelor]

I'm okay with sharing our power, just not letting anyone in or sharing our empowerment condition.

[XerxesPraelor]

Actually, never mind. I don't think we should share unless there's an overwhelming consensus. I just realized that chances are robz is town.

[Voltaire]

Anyone suggesting house roles are super awesome invincible roles are crazy scummy.  Oh hey, look!  It's pacovf!

We have no clue if scum can block, strongman, etc. through house powers.

Nope, read the setup. We actually know this. They're normally blockable, like all roles, unless that house has the Hand of the King, in which case they're strongman.

[Voltaire]

Actually, never mind. I don't think we should share unless there's an overwhelming consensus. I just realized that chances are robz is town.

There will be a role related to the setup. For all we know scum has access to your QT even if they're not in your QT right now.

[Voltaire]

The problem I'm having, ash, is that I'm getting a super-strong town read on pacovf because of you, which is incorrect and misleading, just because of how strongly you're tunneling him with virtually nothing/proven factually incorrect information.

Though pacovf did react quite directly to your accusations, for which I give town points, as he did not seem to shy away from the conflict at all. When I was new scum, and yuma came after me, I wanted to crawl into a hole and die, not keep posting.

So maybe a townie read on pacovf after all.

[pacovf]

Actually, never mind. I don't think we should share unless there's an overwhelming consensus. I just realized that chances are robz is town.

FYI, chances are 27% if 3-scum-team, and 36% if 4-scum-team from your point of view, assuming both you and WW are town, that there is at least one scum in Targaryen. They are reasonable, but I wouldn't say they are good enough to be worth the risk of you thinking that scum doesn't know about your power while they actually do, and keeping town in the darkness.

And of course, from the outside, the odds of scum being in Targaryen, assuming WW is town, are 50% if 3-scum-team, and 60% if 4-scum-team, which are anything but good.

It depends on what your power does. If scum stands to gain much more than town from knowing the power, then it might be better to keep it secret, I don't know. But the odds certainly don't favour that.


I know you have mentioned that you don't want people to join House Targaryen. If one of you leaves the house, would it be ok for him to join House Targaryen later?

[pacovf]

Still waiting for Robz opinion on the subject BTW.

[Teproc]

If the Targaryens chose not to share their power, everyone joining their house is obvscum.

But really they should at least share their power.

[ashersky]

The problem I'm having, ash, is that I'm getting a super-strong town read on pacovf because of you, which is incorrect and misleading, just because of how strongly you're tunneling him with virtually nothing/proven factually incorrect information.

Though pacovf did react quite directly to your accusations, for which I give town points, as he did not seem to shy away from the conflict at all. When I was new scum, and yuma came after me, I wanted to crawl into a hole and die, not keep posting.

So maybe a townie read on pacovf after all.

I want to be lynched if we aren't lynching pacovf, even though it is incredibly anti-town to lynch town just to make a point.

[pacovf]

The problem I'm having, ash, is that I'm getting a super-strong town read on pacovf because of you, which is incorrect and misleading, just because of how strongly you're tunneling him with virtually nothing/proven factually incorrect information.

Though pacovf did react quite directly to your accusations, for which I give town points, as he did not seem to shy away from the conflict at all. When I was new scum, and yuma came after me, I wanted to crawl into a hole and die, not keep posting.

So maybe a townie read on pacovf after all.

I want to be lynched if we aren't lynching pacovf, even though it is incredibly anti-town to lynch town just to make a point.

Ash, people aren't ignoring your case because they think you are scum (heck, some of them are giving you town points for some reason), they are ignoring your case because it is a weak/nonsensical one. Your getting lynched is not going to change that, and if you are town we will be down one lynch. I suggest that you start trying to contribute in a way that is beneficial for town.

By the way, considering how early D1 we are, and that most people haven't posted any content other than setup-analysis, I am also surprised that you think you've got reads on enough people to conclude that I am the only worthy lynch today. If you really don't want to discuss the setup, which is fine, you should be forcing other people than me to talk. I'm putting myself out there, people can draw conclusions (one way or another) from the way I act.

My two cents on the situation.

[ashersky]

The problem I'm having, ash, is that I'm getting a super-strong town read on pacovf because of you, which is incorrect and misleading, just because of how strongly you're tunneling him with virtually nothing/proven factually incorrect information.

Though pacovf did react quite directly to your accusations, for which I give town points, as he did not seem to shy away from the conflict at all. When I was new scum, and yuma came after me, I wanted to crawl into a hole and die, not keep posting.

So maybe a townie read on pacovf after all.

I want to be lynched if we aren't lynching pacovf, even though it is incredibly anti-town to lynch town just to make a point.

Ash, people aren't ignoring your case because they think you are scum (heck, some of them are giving you town points for some reason), they are ignoring your case because it is a weak/nonsensical one. Your getting lynched is not going to change that, and if you are town we will be down one lynch. I suggest that you start trying to contribute in a way that is beneficial for town.

By the way, considering how early D1 we are, and that most people haven't posted any content other than setup-analysis, I am also surprised that you think you've got reads on enough people to conclude that I am the only worthy lynch today. If you really don't want to discuss the setup, which is fine, you should be forcing other people than me to talk. I'm putting myself out there, people can draw conclusions (one way or another) from the way I act.

My two cents on the situation.

There are clearly other scum out there.  I don't know who they are, though.  So I'm focused on the one I believe I caught.  If I catch more later, I'll move on to them.

[XerxesPraelor]

Actually, never mind. I don't think we should share unless there's an overwhelming consensus. I just realized that chances are robz is town.

There will be a role related to the setup. For all we know scum has access to your QT even if they're not in your QT right now.

Hmm. That's. in.... intriguing. Do you think it could be Ichi's role, though?

[EgorK]

Finally caught up. I confirm what Hydrad said about our power

[Robz888]

Still waiting for Robz opinion on the subject BTW.

What subject?

[pacovf]

Still waiting for Robz opinion on the subject BTW.

What subject?

Whether Targaryens should share their power or not.

[Witherweaver]

But Pacovf, you've only talked about setup things and how "crazy" Ash's case is.  Except I didn't really see you address what he said much (Teproc did more), only dismiss it.  There isn't really much (if anything) I've seen you say in terms of actual Mafia, despite posting a lot.

[pacovf]

First of all, while you do make a good point about my lack of scumhunting, I think it's unfair to say that I've "only" talked about setup things. Everybody has done the same. I would give town points to Ashersky for scumhunting, only his case is so bad that I can't.

As to why I've only talked about the setup, there is a simple reason. I think we've got two objectives today: lynch mafia, and determine the best way for town to navigate the setup. We can't do both at the same time, it's too easy for mafia to keep switching from one to the other to avoid sensitive issues. And if we start by trying to lynch someone, I bet nobody will say "hold on a sec before you lynch that guy, we have to discuss the setup first", because it will be seen as crazy scummy. So, first we discuss the setup, then we look for mafia. That's not an excuse not to punish scummy behaviour as it happens, but it isn't an excuse to say that people who "only" speak about the setup are scummy.

I am doing my best to finish the setup discussion as quickly as possible so that we can move on the mafia-finding phase. If you agree with my analysis of the situation, help me with the setup discussion. If you don't, say why.


About the case by Ashersky, I did adress his initial case here. If you think I missed something relevant, I will address it now.

However, I think you can excuse me for not giving much credibility to someone that starts his argument this way:

You starts off with an argument that we should not actively empower our house because House Lannister also has a power.  Why House Lannister?  How would we know the Lannisters were in the game?  Why Lannister's power and not Baratheon or some other big name?  Specifically, Lannister.  Clearly, there is also scum in Lannister.

And when we point out that House Lannister was specifically mentioned in our empower condition in the first post of our quicktopic, he answers this.

Teproc, you mean the killing all Lannisters thing?

Irrelevant, in my opinion.

He still hasn't admitted that this argument doesn't make sense, the best he has done is say that "If you don't like it, ignore it".

[Witherweaver]

I missed that reply of yours to Ash's initial points.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Actually, never mind. I don't think we should share unless there's an overwhelming consensus. I just realized that chances are robz is town.

There will be a role related to the setup. For all we know scum has access to your QT even if they're not in your QT right now.

Hmm. That's. in.... intriguing. Do you think it could be Ichi's role, though?

How do you mean?