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[Teproc]

Wait, do we know if the empowerment is permanent? If the empowerment condition stops being true, is the power still empowered?

Also, vote: hydrad

this is pretty much the post. He didn't post anything about read before or since this post.

Basically all he has done is early game discussing of the RMM for a bit. then deciding on whether or not he should reveal the tar power. then he dissapeared for a bit and posted this single post. then is gone again.

That's not a bad case actually.

[Hydrad]

also I didn't see anyone notice my idea of priming someone then announcing it the next day and then we can decide to burn them or not. Granted this may not even be possible if baratheon gets empowered but I was seeing it as a double lynch possibility and think we could use the power that way.

[silverspawn]

That's not a bad case actually.

it's not?

[Voltaire]

That's not a bad case actually.

It's tempting me, though I like PPS more right now.

[pacovf]

Well, what about the fact that my plan empowers 2 Houses instead of 1? And doesn't seem to ruin Targ empowerment down the line, as WW seems fine with the idea of Lannister dying in general.

it's a good fact. I do think your plan is better, there's not really an argument pro lannister.

I vehemently disagree. The only real advantage of his plan is that it takes less movements, and as shown, the difference is not really that big.

Just because Lannister base power is useless doesn't mean that the empowered version is too. And even if it is, we can just empty Lannister afterwards. Yes, we will have used more movements that if we emptied Lannister straight, but frankly people are overvaluing movement. So what if someone can't leave Stark/Targaryen? Definitely not the end of the world. The upshot is we get some sort of pseudo-investigative role. Seriously, I don't know how both sides are remotely equal.

Advantages of my plan:

1. Powers up the most explicitly pro-town House
2. Destroys the tricky-to-use House
3. Minimizes movement
4. Is the easiest to execute during the day (also nothing to sneeze at) today
5. Powers up the most explicitly anti-town House (but we get to see what the are) BUT
6. constrains the anti-town House - if scum tries to take the action, they're outing themselves
7. Maximizes targets for the pro-town House

Disadvantages of my plan:

1. Permanently destroys a House
2. Any conventional PRs in Baratheon are constrained (though this hurts scum too if they have a roleblocker or something)

Advantages of my plan:
1. Might reveal an investigative power.
2. Can fall back on your plan.

Disadvantages of my plan:
1. Is harder to set up.
2. Uses up more movements if we have to fall back on your plan.

Frankly, I think advantage 1 outweights pretty much all the advantages of your plan, and I think you people are overvaluing movement. And advantage 2.

The only reason giving me pause right now is that Targ's power can be used against town, which gives a bit more importance to movement than I originally thought. But I still stand by my list.

@Mod: How do House powers work? Do we send our action by PM or by posting them on the QT?

@Teproc/silverspawn: the point about the Hand of the King and the mafia nightkill is a good one. Definitely something to keep in mind.

[pacovf]

If we really want to do an advantage/disadvantage analysis, then:

-I think your advantage 2 is actually irrelevant. Base Lannister power is hardly going to achieve anything, one way or another, so it's neither an advantage nor a disadvantage.
-Advantage 6 applies to the other plan too. From three people up, Baratheon can't really be used for evil.
-Advantage 7 applies to the other plan too.

[Voltaire]

@Mod: How do House powers work? Do we send our action by PM or by posting them on the QT?

This is already in the setup. It says they're secret, so PM.

[Hydrad]

I'm assuming that you could also post it in the QT. but that might not do anything as scum could post it in QT then just switch it with a PM so that everyone thinks they targetted someone else.

[Voltaire]

Well, it seems like neither of us is going to convince the other. I'm willing to go with the other plan if it's chosen though.

WW, which plan do you prefer?

pacofv, WW's preference should be a strong hint (if he even has a preference) that one plan may be better/worse for Targ.

Also, my plan has a nice natural check on anyone going rouge to stay/go to Lannister - Stark won't be empowered, and we know to lynch one of the people "missing". Though really, in either plan, going House-less is admitting to being scum.

[Witherweaver]

I like Voltaire's, though maybe I'm just not too worried about losing whatever Lannister's ability may be. 

[pacovf]

Ugh. Fine. Let's go with your plan. It's just that base Lannister looks too much like a nerfed investigative power that is trying very hard to be useful (and failing).

At least your plan doesn't include the nigthmare scenario of scum running rampant in Targaryen without town being able to do anything about it because we've run out of movements.

[pacovf]

also I didn't see anyone notice my idea of priming someone then announcing it the next day and then we can decide to burn them or not. Granted this may not even be possible if baratheon gets empowered but I was seeing it as a double lynch possibility and think we could use the power that way.

I don't like this, too many moving parts, too little accountability.

[ashersky]

10+ pages overnight.  Eeesh.

Voltaire is town.  His plan is infinitely better than any other seen.

At least one person won't abide by any plan.

The "no houseless allowed" rule is ridiculous.  Go read the setup rules again.  There are clearly pro-town reasons to be houseless in certain situations.

pacovf is still the scummiest by a mile.  I will not vote for anyone he is voting for, and I will try to do the opposite of any plan agreed to that he has a hand in designing.

PPS is also town.  Town read on SS.

Slightly worried about Robz, because Robz.  Not lynching him until at least D3.

[ashersky]

And stop stop STOP with the IC crap.

The only IC in this game is no one, because the mod has not confirmed anyone as town.

You can decide that WW is most likely town based on counter claiming a flavor name based on a mod error, but I give zero credence to that line of thinking.  If I'm scum, I'm super happy to get an early free counterclaim in.

[pacovf]

pacovf is still the scummiest by a mile.  I will not vote for anyone he is voting for, and I will try to do the opposite of any plan agreed to that he has a hand in designing.

That is certainly a cool way to remove all accountability from all your acts.

[Teproc]

pacovf is still the scummiest by a mile.  I will not vote for anyone he is voting for, and I will try to do the opposite of any plan agreed to that he has a hand in designing.

Are you a daycop ?

No ?

Then try to remember all the games in which you've been similarly certain and ended up wrong.

PPE : Would you counterclaim in these exact circumstances though ? Why ?

[Voltaire]

At least one person won't abide by any plan.

The "no houseless allowed" rule is ridiculous.  Go read the setup rules again.  There are clearly pro-town reasons to be houseless in certain situations.

1. Are you warning us that odds are scum won't follow our plans? That's accounted for. Or are you saying you won't follow any plans? That's fine, you're not required to move tonight. If you move somewhere that messes things up, you need a good reason or we're lynching you.

2. "No Houseless allowed" is for right now, not forever. I'm aware there are reasons why it's pro-town. That's why my plan maximizes movement remaining for later.

[ashersky]

pacovf is still the scummiest by a mile.  I will not vote for anyone he is voting for, and I will try to do the opposite of any plan agreed to that he has a hand in designing.

Are you a daycop ?

No ?

Then try to remember all the games in which you've been similarly certain and ended up wrong.

PPE : Would you counterclaim in these exact circumstances though ? Why ?

Why are you role fishing?

I would absolutely, 100% of the time counterclaim someone who claimed my flavor.  As town, well, I think I've caught scum.  As scum, well, I know it's a mod error already, so it is free cred when it gets cleared up.

[ashersky]

At least one person won't abide by any plan.

The "no houseless allowed" rule is ridiculous.  Go read the setup rules again.  There are clearly pro-town reasons to be houseless in certain situations.

1. Are you warning us that odds are scum won't follow our plans? That's accounted for. Or are you saying you won't follow any plans? That's fine, you're not required to move tonight. If you move somewhere that messes things up, you need a good reason or we're lynching you.

2. "No Houseless allowed" is for right now, not forever. I'm aware there are reasons why it's pro-town. That's why my plan maximizes movement remaining for later.

1.  Odds are that some town won't follow your plans.  Scum, I'm not convinced.

2.  I can name ten reasons off the top of my head that would be sufficient for rescinding the no houseless rule forever.  I'm sure you can.  So can scum.

[Voltaire]

2.  I can name ten reasons off the top of my head that would be sufficient for rescinding the no houseless rule forever.  I'm sure you can.  So can scum.

...so?

[pacovf]

2.  I can name ten reasons off the top of my head that would be sufficient for rescinding the no houseless rule forever.  I'm sure you can.  So can scum.

Hum, please, name them?

[Teproc]

pacovf is still the scummiest by a mile.  I will not vote for anyone he is voting for, and I will try to do the opposite of any plan agreed to that he has a hand in designing.

Are you a daycop ?

No ?

Then try to remember all the games in which you've been similarly certain and ended up wrong.

PPE : Would you counterclaim in these exact circumstances though ? Why ?

Why are you role fishing?

I know you're joking but still, come on.

Anyway if it were you counterclaiming Brienne I wouldn't be ICing you because you're the boldest scum player there is, but it's not you, so I feel just fine calling WW a pseudo-IC.

PE : GO ahead and actually list ten. There's, like, two.

[Witherweaver]

Why is PPS town?

[ashersky]

2.  I can name ten reasons off the top of my head that would be sufficient for rescinding the no houseless rule forever.  I'm sure you can.  So can scum.

Hum, please, name them?

Doc that can only target players in other houses
Doc that can only target players in a house they left
Doc that can only take action if houseless
Replace doc above with every other town role ever
Bp if houseless
Role empowered if houseless

Shall I continue for you, scum?  Or is that enough for you guys to discuss in your QT?

[ashersky]

Why is PPS town?

Reads-based.