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[Hydrad]

This was a fun game. I've also learned that if someones VLA i should show them almost no mercy... as that really got me in trouble this game.

[Teproc]

For what it's worth, I think you had a strong performance, Ash. The setup being closed, and lynching scum D1 and D2, are probably the only reasons people suspected you at all.

Well, aside from copping Voltaire, but let's not get back to that.

You didn't bend under crazy ash pressure.  That was an awesome newbie performance in my book.  Glad to see I was wrong in the end about your alignment.

I didn't quite understand you pushing him so long.  Is that an attempt to stay in your meta, or did you really continue to believe he was scum after Day 2ish?  His play just didn't seem very scummy to me after Day 1.

I also initially threw my support behind Pacovf because I wanted to see how he (and others) would react.  And you've been calling scum out early pretty well lately.

Yeah but not like this. For instance : ash's perfect reads in Zelda weren't loud at all, he was loud about the L-1 thing but not about Andrew being scum.

WHen ash is screaming that he's 100% sure someone is scum, he's usually wrong.

[Witherweaver]

Well he had Lio pegged in Dice Mafia, and was adamant about Mail-Mi Day 1, and hammered Volt Day 1.

[Teproc]

I didn't play in that, was he as insistent about those reads as he was here ?

[Witherweaver]

I think so, though they didn't respond to him as much as Pac did, so there was less volume.

[Witherweaver]

But anyway, I pretty much wanted to jump on the wagon no matter what the case was.  I think others should have, too.  In particular, scum is probably going to want to avoid that wagon getting traction because it would look bad for them.  As Town I don't have to worry about that.

[Teproc]

That's fine, but I don't like doing that personally : wagonning people for reactions. It's not that it isn't a valid strategy, but I don't like doing it. Partly because I look super scummy when I do (it's how my only mislynch happened, more or less).

[pacovf]

Actually, I was a bit annoyed at first, because I didn't want to do scumhunting before we got the setup nailed down. I was also a bit afraid at the end of D1, because I wasn't there so I risked to be default lynched after XP got saved.

But after you softclaimed, I thought that maybe you were tunneling me as a sort of acti-lurking, so that scum would forget about you, hoping it would get you mislynched. So I didn't mind that much anymore. Especially because your long-winded version of your case against me talked about the "staccato" cadence of my posting or something; I thought you couldn't be that serious about my case when saying stuff like that.

[pacovf]

Oh, did this game break any length records?

[Teproc]

It's the longest 13-player game we've done, but that's about it. MC is close to 100 pages (this is 60 for me).

[pacovf]

The first day here was crazy. The setup discussion was really long, we got 27 pages in there in a single RL day. We ended D2 in page 99.

I guess silverspawn and Voltaire getting lynched slowed this down quite a bit. We also relied so much more on PRs starting D3, so really there weren't any more passionate discussions about anything. Everything was more clear cut and rational.

[Witherweaver]

Actually, I was a bit annoyed at first, because I didn't want to do scumhunting before we got the setup nailed down. I was also a bit afraid at the end of D1, because I wasn't there so I risked to be default lynched after XP got saved.

But after you softclaimed, I thought that maybe you were tunneling me as a sort of acti-lurking, so that scum would forget about you, hoping it would get you mislynched. So I didn't mind that much anymore. Especially because your long-winded version of your case against me talked about the "staccato" cadence of my posting or something; I thought you couldn't be that serious about my case when saying stuff like that.

I personally think that's not a great strategy.  Setup stuff is good, but it's ultimately not the most important thing.  And, talking about the setup is really, really easy.  Talking about other stuff of substance (scumhunting) is not easy, and in particular not easy as scum.  So only talking about setup/strategy is a classic scum tell.  See my partial reread of Silver.

[Teproc]

While I generally agree that theory talk is bad and you should feel bad, it was needed here, and was ultimately a big part of why the setup felt unbalanced. I really feel like we made the best possible choices with setup stuff and that meant that we would have been in a good position even if we had mislynched D1.

[Witherweaver]

Well, I think it has to be there, but I don't think it should be like everyone ignores all other parts of the game and just talks about theory for the first X days.

[pacovf]

I know, but well, this game lent itself to being broken, with the House system and all, so I thought town would win more from analyzing that than from trying to determine who was scum based on pure reads, D1 I mean. I did mention that I wanted to end the setup discussion as quickly as possible so that we could move on to scumhunting, and remained very active when we got the night moves settled halfway through D1 (I think I was the second person to post full reads).

[ashersky]

For what it's worth, I think you had a strong performance, Ash. The setup being closed, and lynching scum D1 and D2, are probably the only reasons people suspected you at all.

Well, aside from copping Voltaire, but let's not get back to that.

You didn't bend under crazy ash pressure.  That was an awesome newbie performance in my book.  Glad to see I was wrong in the end about your alignment.

I didn't quite understand you pushing him so long.  Is that an attempt to stay in your meta, or did you really continue to believe he was scum after Day 2ish?  His play just didn't seem very scummy to me after Day 1.

I also initially threw my support behind Pacovf because I wanted to see how he (and others) would react.  And you've been calling scum out early pretty well lately.

I mean, I was town, so "staying in my meta" wasn't a concern for me.

I was truly convinced very early on that he was scum.  I can't argue with the fact that as the game went on, he got townier and townier (to me).  But there was always a bit of omgus in my case after he kept suspecting me (wrongly as well).

If the game had continued, I would have been after XP before pacovf.

[Witherweaver]

Well I was thinking you might want to maintain a certain image as town, even if it's disingenuous, so that you can more easily replicate it for future scum play.

[Witherweaver]

Or just as a signal to others that you really are town.

[ashersky]

Well I was thinking you might want to maintain a certain image as town, even if it's disingenuous, so that you can more easily replicate it for future scum play.

I know people say this about a lot of players, but I don't do it.  I actually don't think very many players purposefully do something as town for future scum possibilities.

[Teproc]

Well I was thinking you might want to maintain a certain image as town, even if it's disingenuous, so that you can more easily replicate it for future scum play.

I know people say this about a lot of players, but I don't do it.  I actually don't think very many players purposefully do something as town for future scum possibilities.

I actually think this kind of metagaming is borderline cheating.

This is probably why I'm so bad at being scum.

[Archetype]

Cool game, faust! Balance wise, EgorK should probably have been a Godfather or have the Cop be replaced with something else (Redirector?), but really liked your implementation of having PRs divided amongst different neighborhoods.

[pingpongsam]

Well I was thinking you might want to maintain a certain image as town, even if it's disingenuous, so that you can more easily replicate it for future scum play.

I know people say this about a lot of players, but I don't do it.  I actually don't think very many players purposefully do something as town for future scum possibilities.

I actually think this kind of metagaming is borderline cheating.

This is probably why I'm so bad at being scum.

It's not cheating, I tell myself.