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[Witherweaver]

Anyone not accounted for in moves?  No one moved to Targaryen.

Stark/Baratheon want to reveal empowerment? 

What do you mean lynch flavor have Azadins flavor?

[Ichimaru Gin]

Dat nightkill. . .

I'm fine with a massclaim--and Voltaire is about one of my strongest townreads at this point. I think he voted PPS like 6 different times, way before it would have been a good idea to try bussing him.

[Teproc]

Anyone not accounted for in moves?  No one moved to Targaryen.

Stark/Baratheon want to reveal empowerment? 

What do you mean lynch flavor have Azadins flavor?

azadin hammered and Tyrion was featured in the flavor as the main character killing Varys (well along with Stannis, but Stannis is not a flavor someone has). I assumed characters in flavor would all be NPCs.

I'm open to revealing our empowerement, but there's a strong possibility that scum doesn't know about it, so I'm not automatically doing it. I definitely think the Baratheon empowerement should be revealed since the likeliness of scum not knowing it is pretty low.

I think I'm in favor of a massclaim ? Need to think about it.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Also. vote: Hydrad
He only made a single vote all of D1, listed PPS as a scumread while never voting him and later hedged against his lynch.

Short case here

Well this wouldn't be a normal game of mafia if I wasn't suspected day 1 I guess

Lunch time! ok here are my reads

1. silverspawn - null
2. pacovf - nullish scum
3. ashersky - townish
4. Hydrad - IC obviously
5. Witherweaver - about 90% IC. I agree that no scum should do that and I'm not going to lynch him for a while. But if hes somehow still alive at the last 3 or something I'm going to consider him and not give him a free pass like everyone else seems too
6. Teproc - slight town
7. XerxesPraelor - I see him as scummy. His vote on me had really no context. It was just a vote on me. He also hasn't posted much so people are forgetting that hes in this game which is what scum wants I think
8. EgorK - mini scum read? actually probably more null. Egork has barely been in this game at all but from him I'm getting a more unavailable vibe then a trying to hide vibe. Not really sure why.
9. Robz888 - slight scum read. Not as scummy as XP but still don't like it. This isn't how he normally plays but I'm feeling its also a more unavailable feeling then anything.
10. Ichimaru Gin - town read
11. pingpongsam - scummy also.
12. azadin - null
13. Voltaire - town

Overall even though I know its not happening I'm still in favor of tar claiming since I'm pretty sure that there is at least one scum in that area. But as long as WW gets voted to use the power I'm ok with them not claiming since i'm pretty sure hes town. If WW dies though I don't feel as good about tar keeping everything secret.

Overall I'm going to Vote: XP I guess this could be considered OMGUS almost but even if that vote was on someone else I would feel the exact same way.

PPE:10

Keep in mind this is the only vote he makes the entire day. Note his read on PPS, but he votes XP of course.

I'm interested in PPS slightly. There are a decent amount of people that think hes super scummy and then i just noticed asher and azadin both put him on super towny.

Also I don't want part of my meta to be is one of peoples top scum reads every day1 in mafia...

Very empty scum post to me. Extremely hedgy and only talking about other people's reads on him without giving his own.

looks like its pretty much a lurker lynch or maybe pacovf. But leaning towards a lurker lynch...

Framing the lynch options in a way that eliminates his partner.

welp I don't want to lynch PPS then. I'm still inbetween egork and XP then. While I agree pacovf would give us a good amount of info I think keeping him alive also gives us a bunch of info as hes very active.

Ok. PPS promises he'll be more active so that's good enough not to lynch him when the case against him wasn't even a lurker case? Bad, bad, bad.

Uh feel bad about lunching pps since he was vla and said he will start being active. Also don't fully like the pacovf lynch since I think he's really helpful if the game still goes on. Still would rather egork or xp but those arnt happening.

More hedging and poor reasoning not to vote for PPS.

In general, I don't see that Hydrad gets D1 heat every single game. I felt very strongly town about him D1 and still think XP's vote on him looks really scummy (though maybe not for XP). With PPS' flip though, I think it's pretty damning. The combination of low content and activity (concerning voting), hedging on his partner, and changing his reads on PPS from scum to town without explanation while never actually voting for him looks pretty damning to me.

[Teproc]

That's a very strong case. Not voting yet because there's other stuff to figure out and I need to reread myself, but I like it a lot.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I'm interested in PPS slightly. There are a decent amount of people that think hes super scummy and then i just noticed asher and azadin both put him on super towny.

Also I don't want part of my meta to be is one of peoples top scum reads every day1 in mafia...

Sorry. One additional point about this. It's obvious that he's paying attention to PPS (his partner) and concerned about other people's reads on him. But 100% does not commit to a read here, instead transitioning to a weak meta defense of why he isn't scum.

PPE: 1

[silverspawn]

I also think it's a good case. though just one vote is kind of extreme. it's probably not very good play for scum!hydrad to be so passive when he's not actually lurking.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I also think it's a good case. though just one vote is kind of extreme. it's probably not very good play for scum!hydrad to be so passive when he's not actually lurking.

I agree. And it surprised me during my reread. Though I think it's likely that he wasn't keeping track of his votes and just playing a passive game. I've played with town!Hydrad in the past and I'm pretty sure he voted at least more than once D1. At any rate, that's only a minor component compared to his commentary on PPS and weak reasons to not vote for him.

[Witherweaver]

Well, I surely think lynching off wagon today is good.  Luckily that's only a few of us.

[silverspawn]

to prevent any scum reads on me because I change my mind on hydrad too quickly:

the bottom line so far is really that I don't find any arguments against hydrad convincing.

after I did my reread on him, I decided that I didn't want to lynch him because, 1) every case presented on him seemed weak  2) XP tried to lynch him and I still think XP is scummy 3) he wrote pretty much exactly what I thought about the arsonist power.

so it was mostly the lack of a case and not a town read. but this is a good case.

vote:Hydrad

[Teproc]

silver : changing our mind after someone flipped scum is not scummy (changing your mind in general isn't scummy in fact).

But trying to respond to arguments against you before they're made is, because if you're town you should want people to make them, just so you can see who will.

[silverspawn]

silver : changing our mind after someone flipped scum is not scummy (changing your mind in general isn't scummy in fact).

i'm not familiar with that consensus. I imagine that, as scum, you don't have any reads, so you need to pretend. it's pretty easy to forget that you pretended to have a town read on X when you see a good opportunity to jump on an X wagon. a slip like that could give you away.

I defended hydrad in the previous day, so I think I owe an explanation if I change my mind. really, this is dangerously close to another "too self aware argument". that didn't go well the last time.

[Teproc]

silver : changing our mind after someone flipped scum is not scummy (changing your mind in general isn't scummy in fact).

i'm not familiar with that consensus. I imagine that, as scum, you don't have any reads, so you need to pretend. it's pretty easy to forget that you pretended to have a town read on X when you see a good opportunity to jump on an X wagon. a slip like that could give you away.

I defended hydrad in the previous day, so I think I owe an explanation if I change my mind. really, this is dangerously close to another "too self aware argument". that didn't go well the last time.

That game is still ongoing, so let's not.

What you're saying is true, but the problem is that town has to change their mind all the time, as new information appears. Someone flipping scum should certainly change your reads based on that.

[Hydrad]

Well I'm here and I kinda new I was going to have to fight my lynch today.

Anyways one thing is that it looks like there might only be one scum team since there was one death. If that's true this makes me not worried about volt being scum right now as the only thing I was scared of was if there was a second scum team.

[Teproc]

Why did you expect to fight your lynch today Hydrad ?

[Robz888]

I also think the Hydrad case is decent.

[silverspawn]

unrelated of the hydrad case, my logic says that, when you're ahead, it's more profitable to lynch lurkers. is that correct? if so, I think we should look closely at EgorK and Robz. assuming of course that we don't lynch hydrad

[Teproc]

unrelated of the hydrad case, my logic says that, when you're ahead, it's more profitable to lynch lurkers. is that correct? if so, I think we should look closely at EgorK and Robz. assuming of course that we don't lynch hydrad

It's worth noting that Robz was on-wagon. Scum killed on wagon, too. People should pay special attention to azadin's reads when rereading btw, just being the hammer and an unlikely protection target doesn't seem like enough to justify his kill over other on-wagon people. So they either thought he was a PR or didn't like his reads.

[Hydrad]

I didn't know if I was going to be the biggest lynch but I knew that I would be at least brought up today since near the end I stated how I would rather not lynch PPS.

The problem is that I thought he was scummy from the beginning and was willing to vote for him until he had his post about being VLA and coming back on sunday. When he posted that I wanted to lynch someone else because I hate voting for people who are VLA and feels like they don't get a chance to play. Especially on day 1. You can see this in the BM game I played artists mafia where when it was down to 4 people I missed my chance to lynch XP becuase I was afraid of lynching him since he was VLA. Even though it was pretty much a lylo situation I waited and debated lynching him or not and by the time I was about to lynch him someone unvoted.

Basically I just really hate voting for people who say they are VLA and the PPS lynch I was mainly going along because I was fine with a lurker lynch. When he stated that he was coming back on sunday I didn't want to lynch someone before they even got a chance to really play the game.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I saw egorK on here earlier and he has yet to post. Although I still feel very strongly about Hydrad, egorK's insane lurking looks scummy to me as well. And I now see it as more of an intentional tactic, making me feel much scummier about him.

I don't really buy Hydrad's defense at this point. What I would like to see is his explanation for only making one vote the whole day.

Furthermore, people have been known to use VLA as an excuse (to make myself clear, I am not saying that PPS necessarily did this, just recalling a game where Robz admitted to doing this). So although it is something to be taken into account, it's not a very good reason to not lynch someone--especially when the main case against them was not based upon their lurking.

[Hydrad]

my one vote was that I pretty much liked xp the most the whole day. He had a decent amount of people on him for a while so his wagon never really died so I didn't feel like I needed to move my vote. Then at the end of the day I was willing to move my vote for a lynch to happen but it wasn't even needed as there were lots of people who wanted to lynch PPS.

[Hydrad]

also asher at one point implied that he might leave stark right? is he still in that QT?

[Teproc]

also asher at one point implied that he might leave stark right? is he still in that QT?

I'll leave that up to him to reveal (depending on wether or not we want to massclaim).

[Witherweaver]

Well he's not in Targaryen and evidently not in your House.  Is Stark empowered?  If so he can't be in Lannister, so Stark or No House.

Tentative Vote: Hydrad for general feeling from recent interactions.

[Teproc]

Thoughts on massclaim WW ?

And even if we don't massclaim, what about the Targ power, still a secret ?