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Author Topic: Craft Fair - Help needed  (Read 2676 times)

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senseless

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Craft Fair - Help needed
« on: August 28, 2014, 04:07:12 am »
+1

The idea is a mix of Bishop and Forge (woo mutants!):

Each other player may trash a casd costing at least 1$. Then you may trash a card (costing at least 1$?). Gain a card costing up to the total cost of the trashed cards.

Counts both coins and potions. Tentative cost: 4$

Does this need an incentive for other players or is the trashing enough? Is it too dependent on player number?
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Deadlock39

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Re: Craft Fair - Help needed
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2014, 09:44:13 am »
0

Kind of interesting, but way too weak for 2 players in this form.

At the beginning of the game it would be remodel if your opponent trashed an estate, which is bad because you could have had remodel for the same cost, and not given your opponent that free Estate trashing.  Later in the game, your opponent is unlikely to have any >1 cost cards they want to trash, so it is remodel without the +2 coins, which is also bad.

I think it is too dependent on number of players as worded. You might consider only allowing the opponent to your left to trash a card. If your first opponent trashes an Estate, the second can't really risk trashing one anyway, because they definitely don't want you trashing an Estate into a Gold.

If you make the trashing mandatory, this turns into an attack... probably one that is too mean to balance.

I think it is more compelling if you allow the active player to trash up to 2 cards.  Maybe only 1 if your opponent trashed, maybe not.  If you got this with 2 Estates and your opponent trashed one, that might be too strong.

Awaclus

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Re: Craft Fair - Help needed
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2014, 09:55:28 am »
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I think it is more compelling if you allow the active player to trash up to 2 cards.  Maybe only 1 if your opponent trashed, maybe not.  If you got this with 2 Estates and your opponent trashed one, that might be too strong.
I don't think so. Remake turns 2 Estates into 2 Silvers, turning 2 Estates into 1 Gold and letting your opponent trash an Estate is probably weaker.
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Deadlock39

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Re: Craft Fair - Help needed
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2014, 10:05:22 am »
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I think it is more compelling if you allow the active player to trash up to 2 cards.  Maybe only 1 if your opponent trashed, maybe not.  If you got this with 2 Estates and your opponent trashed one, that might be too strong.
I don't think so. Remake turns 2 Estates into 2 Silvers, turning 2 Estates into 1 Gold and letting your opponent trash an Estate is probably weaker.
That is a good point.  I think allowing up to two cards gets this closer to playable.  If you do have a cost restriction on the active player, you might make that the combined cost too, so I can throw an Estate and Copper together with my opponent's Estate and gain a Silver.

I think it will struggle with being pretty weak if your opponent doesn't trash a card, which will almost always be the case past the first handful of turns.  Forging two cards from your hand and being left with 2 cards and no actions is not going to be a very good turn.  You could maybe give it a +1 Action, but that seems like an uninspired attempt at making the card better.

Maybe throw a little Masquerade inspiration in there and have it draw a couple cards first, so your turn isn't otherwise ruined, and you have more cards to pick from. 

enfynet

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Re: Craft Fair - Help needed
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2014, 10:31:35 am »
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If you're combining Bishop and Forge, it needs more Forge. Right now it feels closer to Bishop Butcher.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Craft Fair - Help needed
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2014, 12:17:14 pm »
+1

I don't think there's enough Bishop, actually. When I think of Bishop, I don't think "card that lets your opponent trash as a drawback", I think "card that gives you VP tokens." So you could have this give you VP tokens, if you care about that. But yeah, it's too weak as it is, and scales weird for multi-player.
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silverspawn

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Re: Craft Fair - Help needed
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2014, 12:58:57 pm »
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the way you should think about bishop is, in the early game "card that makes VP's but doesn't help my deck" and in the later game "card that makes VP's and can help my deck" and in the end game "card that makes VP's"

GendoIkari

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Re: Craft Fair - Help needed
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2014, 01:19:31 pm »
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the way you should think about bishop is, in the early game "card that makes VP's but doesn't help my deck" and in the later game "card that makes VP's and can help my deck" and in the end game "card that makes VP's"

I don't think the fact that it helps your opponents equally is a good enough reason to think "doesn't help my deck." I mean, I get that they cancel out, but it's still important that it helps your deck, because it changes the types of decks you might go for.
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Re: Craft Fair - Help needed
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2014, 01:26:32 pm »
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the way you should think about bishop is, in the early game "card that makes VP's but doesn't help my deck" and in the later game "card that makes VP's and can help my deck" and in the end game "card that makes VP's"

I don't think the fact that it helps your opponents equally is a good enough reason to think "doesn't help my deck." I mean, I get that they cancel out, but it's still important that it helps your deck, because it changes the types of decks you might go for.
true, but that's not the important thing, at least not whenever you decide whether you should go for it or not.

pedroluchini

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Re: Craft Fair - Help needed
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2014, 02:32:25 pm »
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A couple of ideas:

- Look at the highest-cost, in coins, of all cards trashed by your opponents. This might solve the scalability issue.
- All players set aside a card, then they all trash at the same time. This might solve the kingmaker issue.
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enfynet

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Re: Craft Fair - Help needed
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2014, 03:08:22 pm »
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Maybe... And I don't know how to write it concise enough for a card... But somehow "up to 4 cards may be trashed" in a way that the other players may or may not trash, thus determining how many cards the Player can trash.

It's certainly clumsy. But maybe can be worked with.
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