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Author Topic: Diplomacy 4: This time, it's personal (France, Germany, and Turkey win!)  (Read 7176 times)

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KingZog3

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Re: Diplomacy 4: This time, it's personal (France, Germany, and Turkey win!)
« Reply #150 on: December 16, 2014, 12:54:03 am »

If you read our QT, Austria and I wanted to stay allied because we figured you guys would all be counting on a stab. This left us with time and superior forces to secure a dual victory, while you guys held less of the board, with a less secure alliance. I would have 100% followed through with this, but Austria's unsuccessful attack on Germany let France move Fleets to create a stalemate in the Med. If he had waited even 1 turn on the attack I probably could have had enough presence to keep pushing in the Med and secure Tunisia. Once the attack failed stabbing was the only way out of a 4 way tie.

I also fully trusted Austria. Only right near the beginning was there a good chance for him to stab me, but I knew Russia was a bigger threat, being both aggressive and silent.
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Just a Rube

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Re: Diplomacy 4: This time, it's personal (France, Germany, and Turkey win!)
« Reply #151 on: December 16, 2014, 10:21:36 am »

Some more retrospective:

I always fully intended to stab Germany if possible; I wanted to make sure I was the only one who could build fleets outside of the Mediterranean. I was definitely counting on one of Turkey or Austria to take advantage of the war (either to hit Germany or to start fighting each other, which would leave me free from worry on that front). I had always been a little suspicious of Germany from the opening (where he seemed eager to get England and I to commit to fighting each other while he stayed on the sidelines), although once he finally committed he was solidly helpful. Also, with England dead, there was no longer an excuse for my fleets to hang out up there, so I knew it was now or never. Sadly, I botched my opening stab, and A/T seemed content to beat up on Italy while we fought each other. Ironically, Austria finally made his move right after Germany and I had effectively negotiated a peace treaty; if he had done it a few turns earlier, I probably would have continued fighting, but as it was I wasn't really in a position to capitalize.

Germany and I were talking to each other pretty much the entire time we were fighting (both times), which made it easy to guard against a Turkish or Austrian solo. Sadly my negotiations with Austria and Turkey were less strong (although I was amused, reading the QTs, that both Turkey and I decided to play the angry, hurt victim at the same time as a negotiating tactic), which may have had something to do with their decision to stay out. Like Germany, I expected the A/T alliance to fall apart when they were no longer actively fighting, which also surprised me. I had been halfway expecting the German stab (indeed, I was planning on using my next possible builds to defend against it), but it still caught me well out of position. I had initially planned on retreating to Ska (in the hopes of either tying down 2 fleets for one, or grabbing a center), but when Germany left Hol open by mistake, it was too good to resist. Which was probably what most doomed Germany's attack; if his A Ruhr had blocked me on my stab, my F Kiel (and thus avoiding losing a unit that turn) saved me from his stab. Plus I was able to work reasonably well with Turkey (who agreed not to grab Tunis/the Med until after I had stabilized my lines against Germany).

Germany and I had worked out to form another stalemate line against Turkey (which probably would have gone into effect this coming turn, especially with Turkey's somewhat threatening final moves) if the game had gone on. At the same time, I was somewhat nervous about another German stab potentially reducing me to playing kingmaker. So I was very glad when Turkey mentioned in a QT that he was planning on proposing a 3-way draw. Once again, thanks to everyone who participated; I had a lot of fun and learned a ton.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: Diplomacy 4: This time, it's personal (France, Germany, and Turkey win!)
« Reply #152 on: December 16, 2014, 11:32:28 am »

If there was another game, I would be in favor of staying at three-day deadlines, the four-day deadlines made it drag a little for me.
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ghostofmars

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Re: Diplomacy 4: This time, it's personal (France, Germany, and Turkey win!)
« Reply #153 on: December 16, 2014, 01:39:05 pm »

I also fully trusted Austria. Only right near the beginning was there a good chance for him to stab me, but I knew Russia was a bigger threat, being both aggressive and silent.
Actually, I expected you to stab him :) Immediately after he stabbed me, you could have taken three of his centers within a year. I had considered to ask for it, if I hadn't managed to negotiate a peace with France. It also helped that you told me that France and Austria weren't collaborating.
Independent of that, I don't think a planned 2-way tie works out. Usually, close to the end the 3rd nation threatens to commit suicide.

I was definitely counting on one of Turkey or Austria to take advantage of the war (either to hit Germany or to start fighting each other, which would leave me free from worry on that front).
In my opinion, your biggest mistake in this game was that you didn't ask for it. Imho, you should hardly ever assume that they will act. The problem was that you were the strongest power after the opening, so that they had no incentive to help you. They may have taken some crumbs, if I had collapsed though.

Quote
I had always been a little suspicious of Germany from the opening (where he seemed eager to get England and I to commit to fighting each other while he stayed on the sidelines), although once he finally committed he was solidly helpful.
I was likewise always suspicious of your moves as well. In particular that you really pressed to leave the channel after you just took it. I had also offered you to commit to an attack in fall 1901 already, which would have worked out and hastened the downfall of England.

Quote
Ironically, Austria finally made his move right after Germany and I had effectively negotiated a peace treaty; if he had done it a few turns earlier, I probably would have continued fighting, but as it was I wasn't really in a position to capitalize.
It was the logical time for a stab. Essentially, the tides had turned against you and I was gaining ground. Perhaps a year later would have been better.

If there was another game, I would be in favor of staying at three-day deadlines, the four-day deadlines made it drag a little for me.
I agree that the faster pace in the beginning was better. I would even consider to reduce the deadlines in the mid/late game, because the alliances are more clear and there is less to coordinate.
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WalrusMcFishSr

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Re: Diplomacy 4: This time, it's personal (France, Germany, and Turkey win!)
« Reply #154 on: December 16, 2014, 02:04:54 pm »

I'm not sure if I would like to mod again, but I would love to play. I didn't know if people needed a cool down before starting the next one.
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KingZog3

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Re: Diplomacy 4: This time, it's personal (France, Germany, and Turkey win!)
« Reply #155 on: December 16, 2014, 02:23:15 pm »

Well like I said I'll be on the road sunday, but otherwise I don't need a long cooldown. Three day deadlines are good. Maybe the first year should be longer, since tons of negotiating goes on, but many rounds, especially near the end, didn't need to be four days.
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Just a Rube

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Re: Diplomacy 4: This time, it's personal (France, Germany, and Turkey win!)
« Reply #156 on: December 16, 2014, 10:45:11 pm »

I don't think I'll have time for another game for a while. So I'll just watch from the sidelines ;D.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: Diplomacy 4: This time, it's personal (France, Germany, and Turkey win!)
« Reply #157 on: December 17, 2014, 12:14:31 am »

Oh and huge thanks to Walrus for modding!
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KingZog3

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Re: Diplomacy 4: This time, it's personal (France, Germany, and Turkey win!)
« Reply #158 on: December 17, 2014, 12:22:41 am »

Oh and huge thanks to Walrus for modding!

Right! Everything was really smooth. Thanks!
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shraeye

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Re: Diplomacy 4: This time, it's personal (France, Germany, and Turkey win!)
« Reply #159 on: December 18, 2014, 06:24:11 am »

Sorry I didn't have more time to comment and say stuff; looking over Walrus's gifs, this looks like the start was super interesting.  The middle/end was sort of a grind, but sometimes games get that way. 
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: Diplomacy 4: This time, it's personal (France, Germany, and Turkey win!)
« Reply #160 on: January 19, 2015, 06:51:58 pm »

/bump because I'd like a new game to start. Is there anyone willing to mod?
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KingZog3

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Re: Diplomacy 4: This time, it's personal (France, Germany, and Turkey win!)
« Reply #161 on: January 19, 2015, 07:10:08 pm »

If I weren't so busy I would give a shot at modding, but I don't think I could keep it organized along with all my other stuff. I could play though.
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WalrusMcFishSr

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Re: Diplomacy 4: This time, it's personal (France, Germany, and Turkey win!)
« Reply #162 on: January 19, 2015, 07:15:33 pm »

I'd love to play as well! I'd rather not mod twice in a row...
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faust

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Re: Diplomacy 4: This time, it's personal (France, Germany, and Turkey win!)
« Reply #163 on: January 28, 2015, 06:32:55 am »

I'd love to play! I have only ever played this twice IRL, so I don't think I'm really qualified to mod though.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: Diplomacy 4: This time, it's personal (France, Germany, and Turkey win!)
« Reply #164 on: January 28, 2015, 12:24:30 pm »

I could maaaaybe mod starting later in February when my schedule clears up a bit more, but I'd still rather play.
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WalrusMcFishSr

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Re: Diplomacy 4: This time, it's personal (France, Germany, and Turkey win!)
« Reply #165 on: January 28, 2015, 03:45:02 pm »

If we have no takers for mod we could run a game on another website. It'd be nice to keep it in-house and have the personal touch, but nobody should be coerced into the job.
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WalrusMcFishSr

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Re: Diplomacy 4: This time, it's personal (France, Germany, and Turkey win!)
« Reply #166 on: April 01, 2015, 11:07:37 pm »

Remember those good times when we played Diplomacy? Man, those were the days.
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liopoil

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Re: Diplomacy 4: This time, it's personal (France, Germany, and Turkey win!)
« Reply #167 on: April 01, 2015, 11:15:11 pm »

I'd play again
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KingZog3

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Re: Diplomacy 4: This time, it's personal (France, Germany, and Turkey win!)
« Reply #168 on: April 01, 2015, 11:49:33 pm »

Still would play again as well.
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shraeye

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Re: Diplomacy 4: This time, it's personal (France, Germany, and Turkey win!)
« Reply #169 on: April 02, 2015, 09:24:19 am »

would watch again.
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faust

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Re: Diplomacy 4: This time, it's personal (France, Germany, and Turkey win!)
« Reply #170 on: April 02, 2015, 01:09:51 pm »

I still want to play! (though not again)
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ghostofmars

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Re: Diplomacy 4: This time, it's personal (France, Germany, and Turkey win!)
« Reply #171 on: April 02, 2015, 01:22:02 pm »

I would play again.

I'm not that interested in modding a vanilla game, but if there is interest in playing a variant, I would be willing to mod.
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WalrusMcFishSr

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Re: Diplomacy 4: This time, it's personal (France, Germany, and Turkey win!)
« Reply #172 on: April 03, 2015, 09:34:02 am »

I might be interested in a variant. What exactly did you have in mind?
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KingZog3

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Re: Diplomacy 4: This time, it's personal (France, Germany, and Turkey win!)
« Reply #173 on: April 03, 2015, 10:11:35 am »

I might be interested in a varient, depending on what it is. I have little experience with normal Diplomacy, so I'd be just as interested in a vanilla game.
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ghostofmars

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Re: Diplomacy 4: This time, it's personal (France, Germany, and Turkey win!)
« Reply #174 on: April 03, 2015, 04:06:51 pm »

I would like to try a different map. The 1900 variant is based on the standard diplomacy map with little changes to make the game more interactive.

There are only two significant rule changes compared to normal diplomacy:
a) You may move around south Africa, i.e. Egypt - Atlantic is a valid move. This move is at half strength.
b) If Russia controls only 1-3 of its homecenters (i.e. not all or none), it may have one additional unit.

A few minor rule changes are usually trivial to understand
c) There are some crossings where armies may move across water, e.g. Clyde - Ireland.
d) The colonies (Algeria and Egypt) are supply centers associated with France/England but not home centers (so no building).

The rest are changes to the map and/or starting units. Here is the map and a bit more detailed description of the reasoning behind the changes can be found here.


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