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Author Topic: Random Stuff Part II  (Read 1217702 times)

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XerxesPraelor

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #4000 on: May 06, 2015, 08:38:04 am »
+5

Quick - make 1000 posts!
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Kuildeous

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #4001 on: May 06, 2015, 09:00:35 am »
+2

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eHalcyon

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #4002 on: May 06, 2015, 12:15:01 pm »
+1

Has anyone played Lifeline?  This is the type of game I'll pay for just to encourage more people to make stuff like this.

I wish I had an Apple Watch just for the experience of playing this truly on the go.

Bah, read a review and was interested... iOS only.  Boo.
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Seprix

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #4003 on: May 06, 2015, 03:00:45 pm »
+2

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LastFootnote

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #4004 on: May 06, 2015, 03:35:34 pm »
+1

Quick - make 1000 posts!

M

Other M. Worst. Metroid. Game. Ever.

I don't know, man. I got through Other M. I've never gotten through the original Metroid or Metroid: Hunters.
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Asper

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #4005 on: May 06, 2015, 04:21:55 pm »
+1

Quick - make 1000 posts!

M

Other M. Worst. Metroid. Game. Ever.

I thoroughly enjoyed how Other M served my Super Metroid nostalgia. Phantoon alone was worth it for me.

I hate Metroid Prime II, that game was annoying and out of place, even in the Prime series, which was out of place itself. It just didn't feel "Metroid" to me. I mean, come on, the Metroids don't even matter for those games, not even on paper. And Phazon is just such a lame story device.

Other M was a playable nostalgic movie with a lot of issues, but it was not The. Worst. Possible. Thing.
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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #4006 on: May 06, 2015, 04:46:39 pm »
+2

Quick - make 1000 posts!

M

Other M. Worst. Metroid. Game. Ever.

So much this. Some Twitch channels I'm on (that are Metroid related of course) have actually banned talking about MOM, because the same complaints always get raised about it every time. The terrible story. The awful characterisation of Samus, and awful voice acting. The controls being horrible. The powerup system in general. Concentration.

It did one or two things well, like some of the game's areas are genuinely quite neat, and there's some fun tools in there both new and classics revisited, such as Speed Booster. But the controls and everything else just makes it so hard to play. I beat it once, but when I went back to replay it I couldn't get beyond about an hour before deciding it was too bad.

The Metroid series hasn't been consistent knockout hits - it's had a few amazing games, most notably Super Metroid, Prime and Prime II, but then it's also had Hunters and Metroid II, which were maybe just merely good games. But MOM was so far below them. Hunters and Metroid II were maybe 7/10 games, while MOM was like a 3/10, maybe 4/10. I finished it, mainly because I wanted to give it a full look at and it wasn't so bad as to be unplayable. Also it's relatively short, which means it didn't feel as bad for long. But found it regularly frustrating, especially with the controls, and generally didn't get especially into it.
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

Awaclus

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #4007 on: May 06, 2015, 04:55:42 pm »
+4

talking about MOM, because the same complaints always get raised about it every time.

That she's so fat?
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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #4008 on: May 06, 2015, 05:23:12 pm »
+1

I thoroughly enjoyed how Other M served my Super Metroid nostalgia. Phantoon alone was worth it for me.

Phantoon is in Other M? I don't remember that at all. I believe you, but I have no memory of that part.

I hate Metroid Prime II, that game was annoying and out of place, even in the Prime series, which was out of place itself. It just didn't feel "Metroid" to me. I mean, come on, the Metroids don't even matter for those games, not even on paper. And Phazon is just such a lame story device.

Oh man, I love the Metroid Prime games, and Metroid Prime II is probably my favorite. The bosses in that game are the best, especially the ones that are using your power-ups against you.
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Asper

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #4009 on: May 06, 2015, 05:53:29 pm »
+1

I thoroughly enjoyed how Other M served my Super Metroid nostalgia. Phantoon alone was worth it for me.

Phantoon is in Other M? I don't remember that at all. I believe you, but I have no memory of that part.

He's a secret boss you can only access after you have finished the main story. Which makes that encounter even more awesome in my opinion.

I hate Metroid Prime II, that game was annoying and out of place, even in the Prime series, which was out of place itself. It just didn't feel "Metroid" to me. I mean, come on, the Metroids don't even matter for those games, not even on paper. And Phazon is just such a lame story device.

Oh man, I love the Metroid Prime games, and Metroid Prime II is probably my favorite. The bosses in that game are the best, especially the ones that are using your power-ups against you.

Part two is not without qualities. It has a rather athmospheric introduction, like i would want from a Metroid game. I just dislike the whole "Dark Aether" thing. It's annoying to be that immobile and always under pressure, and the "light vs darkness" story gives off an esoteric vibe that i wouldn't mind in a fantasy world but which bugs me in a science fiction setting. Also the story has nothing to do with anything, not even the rest of Prime. The II in Metroid Prime II seems to stand for the exactly 2 Metroids you'll meet in the game. The last boss is just some random goo, and some achievements are only accessible in non-repeatable situations.

But it's mostly the fact you have to run from one torch to another, having to switch around all the time, just to find that, no, you allready tried to go this path, you have to come from the other side, through the dark world, taking a long reroute, what the hell i have cleared this part hours ago why isn't there a shortcut.
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pacovf

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #4010 on: May 06, 2015, 06:01:01 pm »
+1

Quick - make 1000 posts!

M

Other M. Worst. Metroid. Game. Ever.

So much this. Some Twitch channels I'm on (that are Metroid related of course) have actually banned talking about MOM, because the same complaints always get raised about it every time. The terrible story. The awful characterisation of Samus, and awful voice acting. The controls being horrible. The powerup system in general. Concentration.

It did one or two things well, like some of the game's areas are genuinely quite neat, and there's some fun tools in there both new and classics revisited, such as Speed Booster. But the controls and everything else just makes it so hard to play. I beat it once, but when I went back to replay it I couldn't get beyond about an hour before deciding it was too bad.

The Metroid series hasn't been consistent knockout hits - it's had a few amazing games, most notably Super Metroid, Prime and Prime II, but then it's also had Hunters and Metroid II, which were maybe just merely good games. But MOM was so far below them. Hunters and Metroid II were maybe 7/10 games, while MOM was like a 3/10, maybe 4/10. I finished it, mainly because I wanted to give it a full look at and it wasn't so bad as to be unplayable. Also it's relatively short, which means it didn't feel as bad for long. But found it regularly frustrating, especially with the controls, and generally didn't get especially into it.

I agree with everything you said about Other M, but I will add this: Ridley looks like a duck...

I am surprised that you rank Echoes above Corruption. I loved Prime III. Prime II is nice, but it tends to drag at times, both during exploration and during boss fights.

Why no mention of Fusion or Zero Mission?

The problem with the Speed Booster is that it's always been very finnicky, and the fun thing about it was making it work despite it, because it looked cool and made you feel like a badass for pulling it off. It's fine in 2D, because there's really only two directions you can run towards. But it just doesn't work in 3D because all of the sudden there's infinitely many directions you can run towards, and that's even before you take into account the inherent finnickiness of the Speed Booster.

I thoroughly enjoyed how Other M served my Super Metroid nostalgia. Phantoon alone was worth it for me.

Phantoon is in Other M? I don't remember that at all. I believe you, but I have no memory of that part.

There's two endings to the game. Phantoon is in the second ending.

I never reached its boss fight either, I just stopped caring before that.
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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #4011 on: May 06, 2015, 06:08:08 pm »
+2

I am surprised that you rank Echoes above Corruption. I loved Prime III. Prime II is nice, but it tends to drag at times, both during exploration and during boss fights.

Prime III is great but it does have a small number of issues. Probably the worst of all is the PED. That thing is pretty ridiculous. Most fights more or less come down to "activate PED, kill enemy with own health, recover way more health than used from items" and bosses aren't much different. It makes most powerups, especially missiles, feel unnecessary in battle. Asides from that it's a lot less atmospheric, you don't feel nearly so alone. There's a lot more hand holding and direction. The whole multiple planet thing doesn't feel quite so impressive as exploring one planet in detail.

Quote
Why no mention of Fusion or Zero Mission?

Honestly just as I was finishing the post I thought "eh I could probably add Fusion and Zero Mission" but didn't because I'm lazy. I'd say they fall just below those three I named though. Fusion is actually a personal favourite, just below Super Metroid (which is probably my 2nd favourite video game) in the Metroid series, but I would say it's not as good as Prime despite that.

Quote
The problem with the Speed Booster is that it's always been very finnicky, and the fun thing about it was making it work despite it, because it looked cool and made you feel like a badass for pulling it off. It's fine in 2D, because there's really only two directions you can run towards. But it just doesn't work in 3D because all of the sudden there's infinitely many directions you can run towards, and that's even before you take into account the inherent finnickiness of the Speed Booster.

Fortunately, thanks to not having a control stick, there's not infinite directions, only 8 ::). But actually I feel that overall they implemented the speed booster fairly well.

Quote
I thoroughly enjoyed how Other M served my Super Metroid nostalgia. Phantoon alone was worth it for me.

Phantoon is in Other M? I don't remember that at all. I believe you, but I have no memory of that part.

There's two endings to the game. Phantoon is in the second ending.

I never reached its boss fight either, I just stopped caring before that.

Personally I only played beyond the endgame because I heard you got to fight Phantoon. It was something I suppose. Nothing too special. At least it was playing the game without Adam in the way constantly.
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

Lekkit

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #4012 on: May 06, 2015, 06:18:45 pm »
+2

The only Metroid game I've finished is Super Metroid. It was good.
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Polk5440

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #4013 on: May 06, 2015, 06:50:56 pm »
+2

Prime III > Prime I >>> Prime II
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Asper

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #4014 on: May 06, 2015, 07:09:00 pm »
0

Don't get me wrong, i don't claim Other M is brilliant. For example, things i didn't like were that some "puzzles" necessary for progressing the game were really hard to get, e.g. there was one tiny space in a wall you had to bomb open without you being able to lock on it, which made me believe you couldn't do it. Worst were those "puzzles" that had you looking for things in ego mode, especially the MB fight. Also the "powerup" system was absolutely ridiculous, i can't say anything to its defense. It was rubbish. Evasion made fights pretty trivial. The whole camera changing thing was annoying. I actually liked to have a 3rd person Metroid again, it was the fact that you had to become immobile to do certain things that annoyed me.

You can think of me what you wish, i liked the narrative. I liked the depiction of Samus, i think it makes sense, i didn't really like Ridleys new design, i liked his weird transformation. I like how the game starts of with Mother Brain and the baby, how it picks up that theme and builds around it, how the main enemies are callbacks to all 2D games (Nightmare from Fusion, the Queen from Metroid II, Phantoon from Super, Ridley from Metroid), and, again, think what you wish, i enjoyed the lack of Phazon, Dark Samus and Space Pirates that came off like a Military Organisation (i always felt this depiction in Prime made them less scary).

To me the best Metroid is Super Metroid. Other M wasn't that great as a game, but it continued the story i wanted to be continued.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2015, 07:10:20 pm by Asper »
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pacovf

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #4015 on: May 06, 2015, 07:23:39 pm »
+1

You can think of me what you wish, i liked the narrative. I liked the depiction of Samus, i think it makes sense

No. Nooooooooo. No. Nononononono. NO. So much no.

Like... no.


Nightmare from Fusion

I was really happy to see Nightmare, it's one of my favourite bosses from all Metroid games. It's a shame it was kind of botched in Other M, it's nowhere as menacing as it was in Fusion.
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Asper

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #4016 on: May 06, 2015, 07:56:53 pm »
0

You can think of me what you wish, i liked the narrative. I liked the depiction of Samus, i think it makes sense

No. Nooooooooo. No. Nononononono. NO. So much no.

Like... no.

I assume this means you are disagreing with me. Or that i'm disagreeing with you. Whatever. You can't please everyone.
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pacovf

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #4017 on: May 06, 2015, 08:07:18 pm »
0

You can think of me what you wish, i liked the narrative. I liked the depiction of Samus, i think it makes sense

No. Nooooooooo. No. Nononononono. NO. So much no.

Like... no.

I assume this means you are disagreing with me. Or that i'm disagreeing with you. Whatever. You can't please everyone.

Even ignoring all the times she just lets the Federation tell her what she has to do even when it blatantly doesn't make any sense, I'm thinking specifically about Samus's reaction to Ridley. By then she had already defeated or outright killed him five times, and even before that she had been training all her life to fight Space Pirates in general and Ridley in particular. Why does she get a bad case of PTSD then!?
« Last Edit: May 06, 2015, 08:09:04 pm by pacovf »
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Asper

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #4018 on: May 06, 2015, 08:34:59 pm »
+1

You can think of me what you wish, i liked the narrative. I liked the depiction of Samus, i think it makes sense

No. Nooooooooo. No. Nononononono. NO. So much no.

Like... no.

I assume this means you are disagreing with me. Or that i'm disagreeing with you. Whatever. You can't please everyone.

Even ignoring all the times she just lets the Federation tell her what she has to do even when it blatantly doesn't make any sense, I'm thinking specifically about Samus's reaction to Ridley. By then she had already defeated or outright killed him five times, and even before that she had been training all her life to fight Space Pirates in general and Ridley in particular. Why does she get a bad case of PTSD then!?

The game takes place before Prime, directly after Super. At that point she beat Ridley twice, not five times. Also the last time she beat him she blew up the planet he was on. He practically came back from the dead. Before Zero Mission, you could very easily assume he wasn't dead after his first defeat, but returning after the world he was on was destroyed is plain wrong. Then again, Zero Mission itself allready reanimates Ridley for no apparent reason in it's "epilogue".

Edit: No, i think that's not actually accurate. I think Prime takes place directly after Metroid I.

Either way, how can you tell how Samus is like? Is it the look on her invisible face in Super Metroid when she sees Ridley after killing him the first fourth time? Her grim eyes and the smile that says: "Ha ha Ridley, i'm not scared at all! As my sprite obviously tells you!"? Or do you judge from the lack of a nervous brakedown in "I don't have any personality at all" Prime, which lacks any dialogue by her and plays after Other M? Seriously, what CAN you claim to know about the psyche of a character hidden so impenetrably after a mechanical suit that many people mistook her for a man until they beat her game? I believe you had a picture of the character in mind and the "official" depiction didn't match. That's a shame, but doesn't make the depiction bad or false.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2015, 08:38:05 pm by Asper »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #4019 on: May 06, 2015, 08:36:21 pm »
+1

You can think of me what you wish, i liked the narrative. I liked the depiction of Samus, i think it makes sense

No. Nooooooooo. No. Nononononono. NO. So much no.

Like... no.

I assume this means you are disagreing with me. Or that i'm disagreeing with you. Whatever. You can't please everyone.

Even ignoring all the times she just lets the Federation tell her what she has to do even when it blatantly doesn't make any sense, I'm thinking specifically about Samus's reaction to Ridley. By then she had already defeated or outright killed him five times, and even before that she had been training all her life to fight Space Pirates in general and Ridley in particular. Why does she get a bad case of PTSD then!?

Well, that's how it works in real life.  The first four times you can shrug it off, but the fifth time!  That's when it'll getcha.  It's where we get the sardonic expression, "fifth time's the charm".  True story.
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pacovf

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #4020 on: May 06, 2015, 08:58:12 pm »
+1


Oh, so your position is that she reacted roughly the same way all the previous times, but is not shown due to limitations of the medium? I guess that's internally consistent, so that's fine if you want to interpret it that way.

Still, she is a bounty hunter by trade, and she gets into all these missions because she wants to. She could have been "Oh man, sure killing all those Zebesians and the guy who killed my family was stressful. I'll just buy a house with the bounty and become a space accountant". But she keeps doing this. The "Samus is a hardass" hypothesis seems a bit more likely.

The PTSD wouldn't have bothered me in Zero Mission or Prime, but by Other M her reaction should be more like "I don't know why they keep trying to clone this guy".

Sidenote: the thing in the epilogue of Zero Mission is not Ridley, just a robot shaped like him.
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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #4021 on: May 06, 2015, 10:35:17 pm »
+1

Aaaaand... F.ds has gone to a land I don't understand.
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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #4022 on: May 06, 2015, 10:41:40 pm »
0


Oh, so your position is that she reacted roughly the same way all the previous times, but is not shown due to limitations of the medium? I guess that's internally consistent, so that's fine if you want to interpret it that way.

Still, she is a bounty hunter by trade, and she gets into all these missions because she wants to. She could have been "Oh man, sure killing all those Zebesians and the guy who killed my family was stressful. I'll just buy a house with the bounty and become a space accountant". But she keeps doing this. The "Samus is a hardass" hypothesis seems a bit more likely.

The PTSD wouldn't have bothered me in Zero Mission or Prime, but by Other M her reaction should be more like "I don't know why they keep trying to clone this guy".

Sidenote: the thing in the epilogue of Zero Mission is not Ridley, just a robot shaped like him.
Wrong. YOU ARE SAMUS. The player.
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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #4023 on: May 07, 2015, 02:24:39 am »
+1

Prime III > Prime I >>> Prime II

Prime I > Prime II > Prime III.

Prime I and II are masterpieces of the Gamecube. Prime III is a decent Wii game.
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #4024 on: May 07, 2015, 04:50:15 am »
+1


Oh, so your position is that she reacted roughly the same way all the previous times, but is not shown due to limitations of the medium? I guess that's internally consistent, so that's fine if you want to interpret it that way.

Still, she is a bounty hunter by trade, and she gets into all these missions because she wants to. She could have been "Oh man, sure killing all those Zebesians and the guy who killed my family was stressful. I'll just buy a house with the bounty and become a space accountant". But she keeps doing this. The "Samus is a hardass" hypothesis seems a bit more likely.

The PTSD wouldn't have bothered me in Zero Mission or Prime, but by Other M her reaction should be more like "I don't know why they keep trying to clone this guy".

Sidenote: the thing in the epilogue of Zero Mission is not Ridley, just a robot shaped like him.
Wrong. YOU ARE SAMUS. The player.

I don't know how many times you personally killed flying reptiles from outer space, but i myself would be rather irritated to be attacked by one.

Samus is a fictional character. Usually she doesn't speak, which is a classic story tool to make identification with the character easier. Mario does it, Link too. It's not even limited to video games. Making the main character "empty" to ease identification is around since forever. So, obviously giving the character a voice will rub some people the wrong way. If Mario or Link suddenly had dialogue, many people would hate it.

I think the real problem is that Prime and Other M interpret the character differently. For Prime she fills out the american ideal of a badass hero who shoots at things. If Samus spoke in Prime, it probably would be schwarzeneggeresque oneliners. Other M on the other hand is a japanese game, with silly japanese fantasy uniforms, and drama, and delicate women in mechanic suits. It's simply another genre. I personally prefer the japan-trash over the ameri-trash, but that's a matter of taste. There's not "one" Samus, and Other M doesn't break yours.

Here's an idea: We can either stop talking about this subject and just accept that we have differing opinions (which isn't going to change either way), or take this somewhere else. PEOPLE ARE STARING ALLREADY !
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