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[enfynet]

I've been using the windows virus software for several years myself. Until they stopped supporting XP.

[Titandrake]

I've been using the windows virus software for several years myself. Until they stopped supporting XP.

Microsoft Security Essentials used to be very good, and it's almost entirely invisible. I've heard that protection wise, it's not longer good enough though...

[jonts26]

I've been using the windows virus software for several years myself. Until they stopped supporting XP.

Microsoft Security Essentials used to be very good, and it's almost entirely invisible. I've heard that protection wise, it's not longer good enough though...

Microsoft security essentials is also discontinued as of windows 8 I think. It's windows defender now. It seems to work pretty well but I use avast also, because I just dont trust microsoft that much.

[pacovf]

The voice was what I was referring to, it was pretty loud (maybe that's just the French version or something), though I also found the pop-up itself somewhat annoying since I really don't care all that much that avast is updating. But it's easy enough to disable, so.

"La base virale... a été mise à jour". If you forget to mute your computer in my university, people around you would spontaneously sing the second part aloud.

In Spanish, it's "La base de datos de virus... ha sido actualizada". You can hear the woman smile during the second part. It's weird.

[Awaclus]

You can hear the woman smile

I sometimes smile out loud too.

[soulnet]

I can't believe it has been two pages talking about viruses and no-one suggested getting rid of the damned virus sponge: windows. If you like easy things, install Ununtu: WAY easier than windows to use.

BTW, before someone makes the claim "I am used to windows": that stupid OS changes its look and feel every 2 years. The change from 3.11 to 95 and from XP to windows 7 is enormous, and yet, people did it anyway without even considering that changing into a different OS would be just as difficult.

I get called an average of five times a day, especially right after lunch. It is really distressing. Because they call numbers automatically, it usually takes ~2 secs for them to actually pick up the phone after I do, so I usually hang up if there is no sound during the first two seconds.

The day I manage to do this will be a really good day.

Back to silver: ...

I was expecting an article highlighting the huge benefits of BM.

[Kirian]

I don't have an account, or have done anything that could warrant such a high bill. the link contains a .zip which contains an .exe with an icon that resembles .pdf. Upon running it (I know, I shouldn't have), it deleted itself.

...

...

I'm utterly speechless.  People actually click on the links in spam email?  I mean... anyone able to properly reinstall system software... I... who...

[Kirian]

Back to silver: ...

I was expecting an article highlighting the huge benefits of BM.

It removes lots of waste from your system.

[silverspawn]

I'm utterly speechless.  People actually click on the links in spam email?  I mean... anyone able to properly reinstall system software... I... who...

well i didn't know it was spam. it wasn't identified as spam.

[Kuildeous]

I just got an email

(translate)

dear telekom customer,
your current bill for your customer ID 69583 is ready in PDF format for you *link*

in your account, you will find all bills in the bills-overview
the immediate value of 230,38€ will shortly be charged from your account

best regards,
your telekom

I don't have an account, or have done anything that could warrant such a high bill. the link contains a .zip which contains an .exe with an icon that resembles .pdf. Upon running it (I know, I shouldn't have), it deleted itself.

I got a bad feeling. I think I recall a virus once that I installed which took effect after restarting my PC. what should I do?

Welcome to the world of phishing. It is a truly low tactic designed to frighten people to the point that they don't think about the link or attachment they're opening.

I don't know what schools are teaching nowadays in regards to computers, but I would seriously hope there's a section on phishing and other malicious tactics. The Nigerian Prince could be a school play.

Phishing is exactly why I never did buy a computer for my mother to use. Keeping her in touch with e-mail would have been very handy, but she wasn't worldly at all. I feared that she would see an e-mail from some bank prompting her to open it up and reveal her SSN, mother's maiden name, and city where she was born.

Although, I guess yours is just a virus since they didn't get any personal information out of you. I'd say that propagating viruses is even lower, because at least phishing is done for the sake of greed. I can understand greed as a motivator, even if it is deplorable.

And as for people having access to your personal information, it can be more of a hassle than you think. It took the better part of a year to get rid of some bad accounts on my credit report. Some dickhead in Ohio got my information (probably SSN) and opened up a few accounts in my name. I had to convince those creditors that I'm not the person they're looking for. That included sending copies of utility bills to prove I didn't live in Ohio at the time. Do you keep your utility bills from past years? I don't. It's a pain in the ass to request that proof from the utilities.

[Kuildeous]

I'm utterly speechless.  People actually click on the links in spam email?  I mean... anyone able to properly reinstall system software... I... who...

well i didn't know it was spam. it wasn't identified as spam.

Spam notification is kind of like grammar check in Word. It can provide some useful information, but it is not 100% reliable. Spammers are always coming up with new workarounds to bypass the algorithms. Of course, spam filters could be more aggressive, but that leads to your uncle's e-mail being thrown into the spam pile because the filter is too aggressive. It's a tough balancing act, and you are the final judge in what constitutes spam or not.

That's why I like the idea of pay e-mails. I don't remember the exact concept, but the gist is that you have an e-mail address that can only receive messages if the sender pays a one-time fee (I forget if it was 5 cents or 5 dollars but something to discourage mass mailings). What's that? You don't want to have your uncle pay to send you a birthday announcement? No problem. You can put certain people on a list that lets them e-mail you for free.

I don't think this would work with only one e-mail provider. If Yahoo, Hotmail, and Gmail all adopted this, it could make a pretty serious dent in spam traffic.

[Awaclus]

I can't believe it has been two pages talking about viruses and no-one suggested getting rid of the damned virus sponge: windows. If you like easy things, install Ununtu: WAY easier than windows to use.

BTW, before someone makes the claim "I am used to windows": that stupid OS changes its look and feel every 2 years. The change from 3.11 to 95 and from XP to windows 7 is enormous, and yet, people did it anyway without even considering that changing into a different OS would be just as difficult.

Actually it was suggested. And it's not a super useful suggestion, because the different operating systems are useful for different things and if you're someone who uses Windows, then you probably need Windows for whatever it is that you're using it for.

I'm utterly speechless.  People actually click on the links in spam email?  I mean... anyone able to properly reinstall system software... I... who...

well i didn't know it was spam. it wasn't identified as spam.

A lot of stuff isn't identified as spam, so you should still use common sense with emails that seem odd.

I'd say that propagating viruses is even lower, because at least phishing is done for the sake of greed. I can understand greed as a motivator, even if it is deplorable.

Oh, it is done for the sake of greed as well in many cases.

Step 1: develop a virus
Step 2: make a website telling people how to get rid of the virus, have lots of ads there too
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit!

Well, that applies for viruses that are just annoying, but then there are those that also do something useful for someone propagating the virus in addition to being annoying.

[Kirian]

I'm utterly speechless.  People actually click on the links in spam email?  I mean... anyone able to properly reinstall system software... I... who...

well i didn't know it was spam. it wasn't identified as spam.

A person you don't know, using an email address you've never seen, claims you have a bill due at an unidentified company, and sends you an "invoice" that can only be found in an attachment with an indeterminate file type.  That's the very definition of a phishing scam.

Software spam filters are fallible; sometimes you have to use the information processing system between your ears.

[enfynet]

I just got an email

(translate)

dear telekom customer,
your current bill for your customer ID 69583 is ready in PDF format for you *link*

in your account, you will find all bills in the bills-overview
the immediate value of 230,38€ will shortly be charged from your account

best regards,
your telekom

I don't have an account, or have done anything that could warrant such a high bill. the link contains a .zip which contains an .exe with an icon that resembles .pdf. Upon running it (I know, I shouldn't have), it deleted itself.

I got a bad feeling. I think I recall a virus once that I installed which took effect after restarting my PC. what should I do?

Welcome to the world of phishing. It is a truly low tactic designed to frighten people to the point that they don't think about the link or attachment they're opening.

I don't know what schools are teaching nowadays in regards to computers, but I would seriously hope there's a section on phishing and other malicious tactics. The Nigerian Prince could be a school play.

Phishing is exactly why I never did buy a computer for my mother to use. Keeping her in touch with e-mail would have been very handy, but she wasn't worldly at all. I feared that she would see an e-mail from some bank prompting her to open it up and reveal her SSN, mother's maiden name, and city where she was born.

Although, I guess yours is just a virus since they didn't get any personal information out of you. I'd say that propagating viruses is even lower, because at least phishing is done for the sake of greed. I can understand greed as a motivator, even if it is deplorable.

And as for people having access to your personal information, it can be more of a hassle than you think. It took the better part of a year to get rid of some bad accounts on my credit report. Some dickhead in Ohio got my information (probably SSN) and opened up a few accounts in my name. I had to convince those creditors that I'm not the person they're looking for. That included sending copies of utility bills to prove I didn't live in Ohio at the time. Do you keep your utility bills from past years? I don't. It's a pain in the ass to request that proof from the utilities.

"I don't have an account, so I opened the link to my account." What?

And Identity Theft is a serious problem. It can take years to overcome the credit problems it can create. Not to mention the endless hassle of proving you are you and no one else is.

[theory]

The real lesson here is that banks, companies, utilities, etc. NEVER send you weird emails.  They never have attachments.  They universally say, come to our website and look at it.  Much of the time they don't even include a link; they force you to type out www.bankofamerica.com or whatever.  This is because they want to distinguish themselves from phishing scams.

If I get an email that doesn't look like all of these other emails, I never open it. 

[Kirian]

The real lesson here is that banks, companies, utilities, etc. NEVER send you weird emails.  They never have attachments.  They universally say, come to our website and look at it.  Much of the time they don't even include a link; they force you to type out www.bankofamerica.com or whatever.  This is because they want to distinguish themselves from phishing scams.

If I get an email that doesn't look like all of these other emails, I never open it. 

I was half hoping the link in that text would be a rickroll.

[soulnet]

Actually it was suggested. And it's not a super useful suggestion, because the different operating systems are useful for different things and if you're someone who uses Windows, then you probably need Windows for whatever it is that you're using it for.

That is false. The number of people that uses windows because they actually need windows is really small. Most people just need a browser. An even larger number are ok with just browser + e-mail program + office suite. If you include that ubuntu also covers media players, pictures organizing software, compressors/decompressors, professional-level photo editing software and Dominion Salvager... there is not that much left. Moreover, most other things (like gaming or auto-cad or some very specific software) you can get by with having a virtual machine with windows JUST for that. That way, your VM will be clean from any malicious emails or websites, so no viruses there, and VMs are way easier to restore than whole machines. Moreover, for many of those (like many online games) you do not even need to store data on your windows VM, so you can restore the original image over and over again, making the machine run as good as a new one every time.

Regarding identity theft: How can that even happen? How come you have to prove to the companies you did not hire them instead of them being responsible for proving you did hire them in order to collect? It sounds like the burden of proof is reversed. I have never heard of a single case of identity theft in Argentina, and we are supposed to be the undeveloped country. Don't you have security measures to detect fraud? Like, requesting an actual photo ID instead of just a number?

[Kirian]

Actually it was suggested. And it's not a super useful suggestion, because the different operating systems are useful for different things and if you're someone who uses Windows, then you probably need Windows for whatever it is that you're using it for.

That is false. The number of people that uses windows because they actually need windows is really small. Most people just need a browser. An even larger number are ok with just browser + e-mail program + office suite. If you include that ubuntu also covers media players, pictures organizing software, compressors/decompressors, professional-level photo editing software and Dominion Salvager... there is not that much left. Moreover, most other things (like gaming or auto-cad or some very specific software) you can get by with having a virtual machine with windows JUST for that.

While I agree with your first statement--most people don't need Windows, and the absolute basics are available in Linux--I have to disagree with this last part.  Sure, you can have a VM.  But plenty of games won't work on a VM, or won't work well enough.  And you have to hope that the VM is compatible, etc.

Regarding identity theft: How can that even happen? How come you have to prove to the companies you did not hire them instead of them being responsible for proving you did hire them in order to collect? It sounds like the burden of proof is reversed. I have never heard of a single case of identity theft in Argentina, and we are supposed to be the undeveloped country. Don't you have security measures to detect fraud? Like, requesting an actual photo ID instead of just a number?

Welcome to American capitalism, where literally every problem is the fault of the consumer.

[soulnet]

While I agree with your first statement--most people don't need Windows, and the absolute basics are available in Linux--I have to disagree with this last part.  Sure, you can have a VM.  But plenty of games won't work on a VM, or won't work well enough.  And you have to hope that the VM is compatible, etc.

Well, I trust you on the gaming part, I was just saying what I have heard from some friends. I am not a gamer myself. Still, gamers are not the majority.

Welcome to American capitalism, where literally every problem is the fault of the consumer.

Does that fault actually hold in court or it is "just" an oligopoly that ruins your ability to get the service from a different company?

EDIT: "just"

[Teproc]

Just because you haven't heard of identity theft happening in Argentina doesn't mean it's not happening... I don't believe this is an American specific problem at all.

[theory]

Actually it was suggested. And it's not a super useful suggestion, because the different operating systems are useful for different things and if you're someone who uses Windows, then you probably need Windows for whatever it is that you're using it for.

That is false. The number of people that uses windows because they actually need windows is really small. Most people just need a browser. An even larger number are ok with just browser + e-mail program + office suite. If you include that ubuntu also covers media players, pictures organizing software, compressors/decompressors, professional-level photo editing software and Dominion Salvager... there is not that much left. Moreover, most other things (like gaming or auto-cad or some very specific software) you can get by with having a virtual machine with windows JUST for that. That way, your VM will be clean from any malicious emails or websites, so no viruses there, and VMs are way easier to restore than whole machines. Moreover, for many of those (like many online games) you do not even need to store data on your windows VM, so you can restore the original image over and over again, making the machine run as good as a new one every time.

If you are going to fall for phishing scams like the one in the email you are not really the target consumer for Linux.

Also, identity theft certainly happens in Argentina.  Some of it in the US is because of our no-chip credit card system, but I think part of it is just that identity theft is more lucrative here.

[Witherweaver]

Maybe no one wants to pretend to be someone from Argentina~

[soulnet]

Just because you haven't heard of identity theft happening in Argentina doesn't mean it's not happening... I don't believe this is an American specific problem at all.

What a way to twist my words. Of course it does not mean it is not happening, but the fact that living in Argentina I hear so much more about identity theft in the US than here says something about the relative frequency with which it happens in both places.

I also never heard of identity theft happening in any other country than the US, but barring Argentina, me not having heard of it is pretty meaningless. Please, do share how the situation is in France.

Also, identity theft certainly happens in Argentina.  Some of it in the US is because of our no-chip credit card system, but I think part of it is just that identity theft is more lucrative here.

I don't think chipped credit cards have anything to do with that, especially because they were introduced in Argentina only recently and are still very far from being universally implemented. However, you do have to sign the receipt and can refuse payment for a charge to your credit card if you did not (at least for non-online shopping).

I think it comes down mostly to companies requiring more from you than just a number to give you a service (specifically, usually and ID and a proof of address which you can only get by showing a recent utility bill on your name or pay the police to go you your house and check that you are actually there). The lack of a universal ID in the US is really strange, and probably causes lots of trouble (like, people being able to vote without an ID sounds completely ridiculous to me, we ask for ID for people to vote even for the student's center elections).

So, if I happen to get a bill for something I did no signed up for, I will just refuse to pay. It will never go to court nor mediation anyway, but if they try, they will have nothing on me unless they have proof that I did sign for the service, which they won't if I did not sign for it.

If you are going to fall for phishing scams like the one in the email you are not really the target consumer for Linux.

I would think it is the opposite, those are probably the people that need it the most. Linux may have been hard to use 10 or even 6 years ago, but it is not anymore. It is really much easier than windows. And you can find smarter and free tech support online any time of the day.

[Eevee]

The real lesson here is that banks, companies, utilities, etc. NEVER send you weird emails.  They never have attachments.  They universally say, come to our website and look at it.  Much of the time they don't even include a link; they force you to type out www.bankofamerica.com or whatever.  This is because they want to distinguish themselves from phishing scams.

If I get an email that doesn't look like all of these other emails, I never open it.

I get an email from my mobile carrier every month with the bill attached as a pdf.

.. or alternatively I'm very stupid and in serious trouble right now, huh?

[Kirian]

Welcome to American capitalism, where literally every problem is the fault of the consumer.

Does that fault actually hold in court or it is "just" an oligopoly that ruins your ability to get the service from a different company?

EDIT: "just"

It certainly can hold in court.  Half the problem is that any given large company has multiple good lawyers on the payroll, while most consumers can't afford a lawyer, especially when the dispute is less than the cost of an hour of the lawyer's time.  The burden of proof is generally on the consumer, but there are a number of legal protections.

It's not always the case.  I would say that most fraud is captured before it becomes a problem.  This certainly is my experience; I've had my card number used a few times, and every time I've received a call from the card company.  "It looks like someone is trying to use your card in Bulgaria.  Have you traveled to Bulgaria lately, sir?"  The charges get reversed and a new card is issued immediately.

I'm not certain what leads to the larger and worse cases of fraud, though.

I would think it is the opposite, those are probably the people that need it the most. Linux may have been hard to use 10 or even 6 years ago, but it is not anymore. It is really much easier than windows. And you can find smarter and free tech support online any time of the day.

Most people can't install an operating system.  Most people can barely install a printer when given step-by-step IKEA-style instructions.  And since these same people can't put a computer together from scratch, the computer is going to have whatever OS comes pre-packaged with it.  It's not going to get changed.