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Robz888

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Fan Expansion: Strife
« on: December 12, 2011, 02:49:57 am »
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Hello all. Here's my first attempt at crafting my own expansion. I call it Dominion: Strife. The theme is warfare, natural disasters, tyranny, etc. Stemming from that, quite a few of my cards are Attacks, though I don't expect them to be overpowered. Only two of my cards give your opponents curses, and neither does so reliably. I also tried to introduce Attacks that interfere with your opponents' buys (like Embargo). Going along with that, there are a couple new Reactions that handle Attacks well.

I would really appreciate feedback--please point out imbalances and things you don't like! I will certainly be editing these cards after I hear from other people.

Executioner -- $6 (Attack)
Each player gets +3 cards and puts a card from his hand on top of his deck. Then, each other player trashes a Victory card, or reveals a hand with no Victory cards.

Martyr -- $6 (Action)
+2 cards, +2 actions, +$3, +1 buy
Trash this after playing it.

Plunder -- $6 (Treasure)
+1 buy
Worth $2. While this in play, treasure cards cost $2 less, but not less than $0.

Barbarian Horde -- $5 (Attack)
+1 buy
Add a token to the Barbarian Horde mat. Each other player reveals the next 3 cards of his deck and trashes a Treasure card corresponding to the number of tokens on the mat, or reveals no such card and gains a curse:
1-2 tokens: Copper
3-5 tokens: Silver
6 or more tokens: Gold
You get +$ equal to the combined value of the trashed Treasure cards.

Beggar Prince -- $5 (Attack)
Each other player with 4 or more cards in hand discards a Treasure card or reveals a hand with no Treasure cards. If any Treasure cards were discarded this way, you get +$1. If any of those treasures were coppers, you also get +1 card, +1 action.

Plague -- $5 (Action)
+2 cards
Choose a supply pile where cards cost $7 or less. Trash up to 3 cards from it.

Propagandist -- $5 (Attack--Duration)
+$2
While this is in play, keep the most expensive card you bought on this turn in front of you until the start of your next turn. Each other player must buy or gain at least 1 copy of the card you bought, if he plays any cards that enable him to do so during his next turn.

Agitator -- $4 (Action)
When you buy this, all other players with 5 or more cards in hand discard a card.
When you play this, remove it from your deck and add it as the top card in any supply pile. The cards beneath it are not available until it is bought. If no player buys it by the start of your next turn, remove it from the pile and trash it.

Haunted Village -- $4 (Action)
+2 actions
Reveal the next 3 cards in your deck. Choose one and put it into your hand. Discard the others.

Profiteer -- $4 (Duration)
+$1
While this is in play, after your buy phase has ended you may reveal any Treasure cards from your hand. Put them in front of you, face-up. At the start of your next turn, add them to your hand.

Tyrant King -- $4 (Reaction)
+$3
You can't play any more cards this turn (including Treasures).
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, you are unaffected by the Attack and must play this card during your next turn. You may not play any cards that could make it impossible for you to play this card.

Vassal -- $4 (Duration)
Choose two: +1 card; +1 action; +$1; +1 buy; +1 VP; +$2 on your next turn. (The choices must be different.)

Witch Hunt -- $4 (Attack)
+$1
Trash an Estate, a Curse, or a Copper. If you trash an Estate, each other player gains a Curse. If you trash a Curse, each other player gains an Estate. If you trash a Copper, each other player gains a Copper.

Banish -- $3 (Action)
+1 card, +1 action
You may move a card from your hand costing $4 or less to the island mat. If you do, each other player may trash a card of that type from his hand. If any player does, you get +$1.

False Prophet -- $3 (Action)
Name a card. The player to your left either reveals that card, or reveals a hand without that card. If that card is revealed, you gain its effects as if you had played a copy of it.
If the player to your left does not reveal that card, you gain a curse and get +1 card, +1 action.

Serf -- $3 (Action)
+1 action, +2 cards. Discard 1 card, or trash it.
When you play this, you have 1 fewer available buys.

Spoils of War -- $3 (Victory--Treasure--Duration)
Worth 1 VP
Worth $2 now, and $2 on your next turn.
When you play this, it stays in play until your next turn is over.
You may only buy this if you have an Attack card in play and no player revealed a Reaction card in response to it. (Setup: If this pile will appear in the game, and there are no Attacks or Reactions in the supply, add an Attack and a Reaction at random. Then remove one of the other piles at random.

Treaty -- $3 (Reaction--Duration)
+$2
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this card. If you do, you are unaffected by that Attack.
If you revealed this card in response to an Attack, it stays in play until another Attack is played. The next time any player (including you) plays an Attack card, all players are unaffected by that Attack.

Inquisitor -- $2 (Attack)
Choose one: +1 card; or +1 action; or +$1; or +1 buy
Each other player reveals his hand, keeping it revealed until the end of your turn.

Sacred Relic -- $2 (Reaction)
Trash a card from your hand.
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, +1 VP.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Fan Expansion: Strife
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2011, 10:26:27 am »
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Highway + Plague.... crazy strong in the right situation.

Serf... I don't think you would ever buy this on a board that doesn't have +buy. Which means it effectively requires other things in the Kingdom, which is a general no-no.

Witch Hunt seems like a forced opening buy to me. The only other $4 curser is Sea Hag, and that gives no benefit for playing it. This lets you trash and give curses, and give copper and estates if curses run out.

Spoils of War - Duration cards already have specific rules that say that they stay in play until the end of the last turn that they do something. So the line about keeping it in play until the end of your next turn modifies the normal duration rules slightly, and isn't needed.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 10:32:25 am by GendoIkari »
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DStu

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Re: Fan Expansion: Strife
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2011, 11:58:51 am »
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Executioner -- $6 (Attack)
Each player gets +3 cards and puts a card from his hand on top of his deck. Then, each other player trashes a Victory card from his hand (?), or reveals a hand with no Victory cards.
First impression is too swingy. Of course giving +3 cards and putting back 1 is kind of making the worst case less likely, but nevertheless, what if I have 2 Colonies and nothing in hand? Also, I must put my valuable victory cards back (so ghostshipping me), getting a bad next turn also.
Some kind of compensation (Saboteur-like) might overcome this, maybe one can also get around it by buying more Estates...

Quote
Beggar Prince -- $5 (Attack)
Each other player with 4 or more cards in hand discards a Treasure card or reveals a hand with no Treasure cards. If any Treasure cards were discarded this way, you get +$1. If any of those treasures were coppers, you also get +1 card, +1 action.
So as standard, you will get +1$/+1action/+1card + small attack, which is only usable once per turn. I think it should only cost $4. Compare the other +1+1+1-cards, vanilla +1+1+1 should cost $4, having it non-stackable I think (more than) mitigates for the attack.
Also, in multiplayer there is the question who discards first in order to perhaps preventing the bonus. If somebody already has discarded a Copper, there is no sense in discarding Silver, so maybe I wait until the other player have discarded if I think about sacrifing some of my power to this. But if everybody thinks so, you will wait forever...

Quote
Propagandist -- $5 (Attack--Duration)
+$2
While this is in play, keep the most expensive card you bought on this turn in front of you until the start of your next turn. Each other player must buy or gain at least 1 copy of the card you bought, if he plays any cards that enable him to do so during his next turn.
Not sure about this. Often I just don't play all of my treasure to come around this.

Quote
Profiteer -- $4 (Duration)
+$1
While this is in play, after your buy phase has ended you may reveal any Treasure cards from your hand. Put them in front of you, face-up. At the start of your next turn, add them to your hand.
How long is this in play (-> rinkwork's guide). But it's a Haven-effect just for money, with lower bonus than Haven. Don't think it should cost $4. Ok, multi-haven, it's not just on card.

Quote
Vassal -- $4 (Duration)
Choose two: +1 card; +1 action; +$1; +1 buy; +1 VP; +$2 on your next turn. (The choices must be different.)
Compared to Pawn it seems to expensive.
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Robz888

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Re: Fan Expansion: Strife
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2011, 03:45:16 pm »
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Highway + Plague.... crazy strong in the right situation.
I hadn't thought of that. Could change the wording "where cards cost $7 or less at the start of your turn."

Quote
Serf... I don't think you would ever buy this on a board that doesn't have +buy. Which means it effectively requires other things in the Kingdom, which is a general no-no.
True. I could put a clause at the end of the card saying "Setup: If no cards with +buys will appear in this Kingdom, add one at random."

Quote
Witch Hunt seems like a forced opening buy to me. The only other $4 curser is Sea Hag, and that gives no benefit for playing it. This lets you trash and give curses, and give copper and estates if curses run out.
I think I might drop the +$1 and/or add a clause that says the card your opponent gains is gained to his hand (making them easier to destroy/block).

Quote
Spoils of War - Duration cards already have specific rules that say that they stay in play until the end of the last turn that they do something. So the line about keeping it in play until the end of your next turn modifies the normal duration rules slightly, and isn't needed.
I'll fix that part. Thanks for the input!
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Robz888

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Re: Fan Expansion: Strife
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2011, 04:05:40 pm »
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Executioner -- $6 (Attack)
Each player gets +3 cards and puts a card from his hand on top of his deck. Then, each other player trashes a Victory card from his hand (?), or reveals a hand with no Victory cards.
First impression is too swingy. Of course giving +3 cards and putting back 1 is kind of making the worst case less likely, but nevertheless, what if I have 2 Colonies and nothing in hand? Also, I must put my valuable victory cards back (so ghostshipping me), getting a bad next turn also.
Some kind of compensation (Saboteur-like) might overcome this, maybe one can also get around it by buying more Estates...
It could be too powerful. Though it does give your opponents, like, a free Smithy/Courtyard, and I thought could be defended by hanging on to Estates. But I don't know, perhaps the cost or +cards amount should be changed.

Beggar Prince -- $5 (Attack)
Each other player with 4 or more cards in hand discards a Treasure card or reveals a hand with no Treasure cards. If any Treasure cards were discarded this way, you get +$1. If any of those treasures were coppers, you also get +1 card, +1 action.
So as standard, you will get +1$/+1action/+1card + small attack, which is only usable once per turn. I think it should only cost $4. Compare the other +1+1+1-cards, vanilla +1+1+1 should cost $4, having it non-stackable I think (more than) mitigates for the attack.
Also, in multiplayer there is the question who discards first in order to perhaps preventing the bonus. If somebody already has discarded a Copper, there is no sense in discarding Silver, so maybe I wait until the other player have discarded if I think about sacrifing some of my power to this. But if everybody thinks so, you will wait forever...
It was my understanding that if turn order matters (like, when there aren't enough curses left for everybody to get one when a Witch is played, or something), you resolve matters starting with the player to your left. But I might have imagined that. About the card, I initially had it as +2 cards rather than 1... and then all of a sudden it was a Laboratory that attacked and gave +$1. Scary! Maybe it should be +$2.

Propagandist -- $5 (Attack--Duration)
+$2
While this is in play, keep the most expensive card you bought on this turn in front of you until the start of your next turn. Each other player must buy or gain at least 1 copy of the card you bought, if he plays any cards that enable him to do so during his next turn.
Not sure about this. Often I just don't play all of my treasure to come around this.
One scenario to use this would be, play Propagandist, buy Duchy. The next player, so long as they played cards that gave at least $5, would have to buy the Duchy, even if they could afford a Province (assuming they only had one buy.) There could be crazier scenarios I haven't considered, but even that would be fairly annoying.

Profiteer -- $4 (Duration)
+$1
While this is in play, after your buy phase has ended you may reveal any Treasure cards from your hand. Put them in front of you, face-up. At the start of your next turn, add them to your hand.
How long is this in play (-> rinkwork's guide). But it's a Haven-effect just for money, with lower bonus than Haven. Don't think it should cost $4. Ok, multi-haven, it's not just on card.
I was thinking of it as a Tactician for just money, which is why I priced it like that. Undercosted at $3?

Vassal -- $4 (Duration)
Choose two: +1 card; +1 action; +$1; +1 buy; +1 VP; +$2 on your next turn. (The choices must be different.)
Compared to Pawn it seems to expensive.
I could change this cost to $3 if people think it's too expensive.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Fan Expansion: Strife
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2011, 04:42:12 pm »
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I'm not going to try to comment on whether these cards are balanced, but I will comment on your syntax.

All of your (Attack) cards should be (Action – Attack). Likewise for your (Reaction) cards and your (Duration) cards. If a card isn't an Action card, you can't play it during your Action phase.

Executioner -- $6 (Attack)
Each player gets +3 cards and puts a card from his hand on top of his deck. Then, each other player trashes a Victory card, or reveals a hand with no Victory cards.

This should read: "Each player draws 3 cards and..."

Quote
Martyr -- $6 (Action)
+2 cards, +2 actions, +$3, +1 buy
Trash this after playing it.

Change "Trash this after playing it" to "Trash this card"

Quote
Plunder -- $6 (Treasure)
+1 buy
Worth $2. While this in play, treasure cards cost $2 less, but not less than $0.

Looks good.

Quote
Barbarian Horde -- $5 (Attack)
+1 buy
Add a token to the Barbarian Horde mat. Each other player reveals the next 3 cards of his deck and trashes a Treasure card corresponding to the number of tokens on the mat, or reveals no such card and gains a curse:
1-2 tokens: Copper
3-5 tokens: Silver
6 or more tokens: Gold
You get +$ equal to the combined value of the trashed Treasure cards.

So, is the Barbarian Horde mat communal, or does each player have their own? Either way, you can't refer to the 'value' of Treasure cards, since they have no intrinsic value other than their cost. Treasure cards generate a certain number of Coins when played, and depending on the situation, that number may vary drastically.

Quote
Beggar Prince -- $5 (Attack)
Each other player with 4 or more cards in hand discards a Treasure card or reveals a hand with no Treasure cards. If any Treasure cards were discarded this way, you get +$1. If any of those treasures were coppers, you also get +1 card, +1 action.

This should read: "Each other player with 4 or more cards in hand discards a Treasure card (or reveals a hand with no Treasure cards). If any Treasure cards were discarded this way, +$1. If any Coppers were discarded, +1 Card and +1 Action."

Quote
Plague -- $5 (Action)
+2 cards
Choose a supply pile where cards cost $7 or less. Trash up to 3 cards from it.

This is messy wording. How does it work when an Agitator is on the pile?

Quote
Propagandist -- $5 (Attack--Duration)
+$2
While this is in play, keep the most expensive card you bought on this turn in front of you until the start of your next turn. Each other player must buy or gain at least 1 copy of the card you bought, if he plays any cards that enable him to do so during his next turn.

This card has a ton of issues. What happens if you bought two equally expensive cards? Also, use "set aside" instead of "keep in front of you". Perhaps you need a Propagandist mat? Also, what do you do with the card at the beginning of your next turn? Discard it? Trash it? You need to specify. Does the player need to buy or gain a card at the very first opportunity? If so, that should be specified. Does 'his next turn' include Possession turns? In my opinion, this card is too buggy to survive in its current form.

Quote
Agitator -- $4 (Action)
When you buy this, all other players with 5 or more cards in hand discard a card.
When you play this, remove it from your deck and add it as the top card in any supply pile. The cards beneath it are not available until it is bought. If no player buys it by the start of your next turn, remove it from the pile and trash it.

Instead of "add it as the top card in any supply pile", just say "put it on top of any Supply pile". Are the cards beneath it not available until it is bought, or just until it is gained? Can it be gained in any way other than being bought? Also, there's no tracking mechanism for how long it should be out. What if everyone is playing these and you can't remember which ones (if any) you played last turn? Maybe a pile has multiple copies played by different players.

Quote
Profiteer -- $4 (Duration)
+$1
While this is in play, after your buy phase has ended you may reveal any Treasure cards from your hand. Put them in front of you, face-up. At the start of your next turn, add them to your hand.

This should say: "At the start of Clean-up, you may reveal any number of Treasure cards from your hand. Set them aside. At the start of your next turn, add them to your hand."

Also, it doesn't need to be a Duration card.

Quote
Tyrant King -- $4 (Reaction)
+$3
You can't play any more cards this turn (including Treasures).
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, you are unaffected by the Attack and must play this card during your next turn. You may not play any cards that could make it impossible for you to play this card.

This is messy. Here's my suggested change:

Tyrant King -- $4 (Action – Reaction)
+$3. Discard your hand.
----------------------------------
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, discard the other cards in your hand and you are unaffected by the Attack.

Quote
Vassal -- $4 (Duration)
Choose two: +1 card; +1 action; +$1; +1 buy; +1 VP; +$2 on your next turn. (The choices must be different.)

The wording's fine, but non-terminal cards that give VP chips are a bad idea. I'd just stock up on those and play them until the game ended, which might never happen.

Quote
Banish -- $3 (Action)
+1 card, +1 action
You may move a card from your hand costing $4 or less to the island mat. If you do, each other player may trash a card of that type from his hand. If any player does, you get +$1.

You shouldn't reference the Island mat. Just say that you set the card aside and return it to your deck at the end of the game. Also, 'a card of that type' should maybe be 'a card that shares a type' to take into account multi-type cards?

Quote
False Prophet -- $3 (Action)
Name a card. The player to your left either reveals that card, or reveals a hand without that card. If that card is revealed, you gain its effects as if you had played a copy of it.
If the player to your left does not reveal that card, you gain a curse and get +1 card, +1 action.

Quote
Serf -- $3 (Action)
+1 action, +2 cards. Discard 1 card, or trash it.
When you play this, you have 1 fewer available buys.

I'd go for this:

Serf -- $3 (Action)
+2 Cards, +1 Action, –1 Buy. Discard or trash a card from your hand.

Quote
Spoils of War -- $3 (Victory--Treasure--Duration)
Worth 1 VP
Worth $2 now, and $2 on your next turn.
When you play this, it stays in play until your next turn is over.
You may only buy this if you have an Attack card in play and no player revealed a Reaction card in response to it. (Setup: If this pile will appear in the game, and there are no Attacks or Reactions in the supply, add an Attack and a Reaction at random. Then remove one of the other piles at random.

As stated, you don't need the 'stays in play' line.

Quote
Treaty -- $3 (Reaction--Duration)
+$2
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this card. If you do, you are unaffected by that Attack.
If you revealed this card in response to an Attack, it stays in play until another Attack is played. The next time any player (including you) plays an Attack card, all players are unaffected by that Attack.

Revealing a card does not put it into play, nor should it. I'd reword it like this:

Treaty -- $3 (Reaction)
+$2
When another player plays an Attack card, you may set this card aside. If you do, you are unaffected by that Attack.
The next time an Attack card is played, discard this and all players are unaffected by that Attack.

Quote
Sacred Relic -- $2 (Reaction)
Trash a card from your hand.
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, +1 VP.

You can reveal a Reaction card from your hand as many times as you want in response to an event. As soon as someone plays an Attack card when you have this in your hand, you gain infinite VP chips.
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rinkworks

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Re: Fan Expansion: Strife
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2011, 04:57:34 pm »
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Executioner -- $6 (Attack)
Each player gets +3 cards and puts a card from his hand on top of his deck. Then, each other player trashes a Victory card, or reveals a hand with no Victory cards.

Trashing attacks are tough to get right, and even when you balance them, they can be terribly unfun (Saboteur).  The fact that this one zeroes in on Victory cards is especially bad:  it becomes way too swingy.  I appreciate, though, that you've attempted to address this by giving the opponent a sort of hybrid Secret Chamber/Courtyard effect.  This gives them a chance to draw Estates and rescue Provinces.  But while this weakens the attack, it doesn't do anything about its swinginess.  The attack might still trash a Province, after all, and that means that the game can turn on a single (un)lucky play.

So at best, it wins the game, but on average, it helps your opponent more than it hurts, because you're giving them that Secret Chamber/Courtyard benefit and allowing them to trash an Estate.   It just seems like it's usually a bad thing to buy and won't make for a very fun game if someone does.

Quote
Martyr -- $6 (Action)
+2 cards, +2 actions, +$3, +1 buy
Trash this after playing it.

I like the idea of a one-shot vanilla card.  My suspicion is that this one is way too strong, though.  I've experimented a little with one-shot vanilla cards, and I found that they need to be a lot weaker than you'd think.  A single card or coin can make a world of difference in Dominion, and here you've got humongous boosts across the board.  I'm sure it's a must-buy a whole lot of the time, perhaps every time you hit $6.  You don't want it to be a must-buy, or the card will narrow the strategy space.  It's got to be bad sometimes.

Quote
Plunder -- $6 (Treasure)
+1 buy
Worth $2. While this in play, treasure cards cost $2 less, but not less than $0.

This is a neat idea.  My one personal caveat is that I don't like cards that foster or force a Big Money strategy, and this pretty much fits that bill.  But such cards do exist, and they are perfectly good cards.

This is probably as good a version of the card as any to start testing, but my prediction is that you're going to find it overpowered.  Compare it to Quarry:  Quarry costs $4 and offers the equivalent discount on Actions rather than Treasures.  But it yields only $1 and does not have +Buy.  An extra coin would bump the cost up by about $3 (consider the cost difference between the base Treasures).  This one is only $2 more AND it offers +Buy as well.  But we also have to consider how the power of discounting Treasures compares to the power of discounting Actions.  My guess is that discounting Treasures is MORE powerful (because Big Money is available on every board and almost a winning strategy on many) rather than less.  So that's yet another reason why this card is probably overpowered.

When you test, try a few different benchmarks, including BMU and some BM+X strategies.  I'm sure some version of this card can work.

Quote
Barbarian Horde -- $5 (Attack)
+1 buy
Add a token to the Barbarian Horde mat. Each other player reveals the next 3 cards of his deck and trashes a Treasure card corresponding to the number of tokens on the mat, or reveals no such card and gains a curse:
1-2 tokens: Copper
3-5 tokens: Silver
6 or more tokens: Gold
You get +$ equal to the combined value of the trashed Treasure cards.

I like the idea of a card that attacks different Treasure cards as the game goes on, roughly in sync with which Treasure cards players will be buying over the course of the game.  Unfortunately, there are serious scaling issues with the card.  Compare with Pirate Ship:  you don't get a token for each player that trashes a Treasure.  You just get one.  Pirate Ship is already superior with more players, because you have a better chance of hitting.  But if you could get multiple tokens, that would compound the problem wildly.

With this card, you could get +$6 in 2p.  That's pretty great, but maybe it's okay since you have to work to get to that point and aren't guaranteed a hit even then.  However,  in a 4p game you could get +$18, which is just crazy -- especially since you get a +Buy to help spend it.

Also, do I read this correctly that there's just one shared mat?  In that case, 4p scales even worse, because the mat will build up twice as fast as in a 2p game, leading to potential +$18 turns sooner than you can even get up to +$6 in a 2p game.  I really think you need individual mats and only a single +$ bonus, or the problems of scale will just be way too crazy.  Even then, I'm not convinced it'll be a great card, since it can be trivially defended against simply by not buying Silvers or Golds.  And you'd love to be hit by it when it's targeting Coppers.

Quote
Beggar Prince -- $5 (Attack)
Each other player with 4 or more cards in hand discards a Treasure card or reveals a hand with no Treasure cards. If any Treasure cards were discarded this way, you get +$1. If any of those treasures were coppers, you also get +1 card, +1 action.

This is a pretty interesting one.  Sort of a Super-Cutpurse, where instead of a terminal Silver, you get a Peddler effect.  Plus it hits Silvers and Golds as a failsafe, but actually you don't want to hit those -- because even though that does hurt your opponents pretty bad, it means the benefit to you is a mere terminal Copper, which is pretty horrible.  For that reason, I would test +$2 instead of the +$1.  That might make using Beggar Prince in the early game too powerful, though, so you'd have to watch out for that possibility.

With either version, I could see using one of these early and, like Cutpurse, trashing it or just ignoring it by the middle game.

Quote
Plague -- $5 (Action)
+2 cards
Choose a supply pile where cards cost $7 or less. Trash up to 3 cards from it.

Supply trashing is probably useful a lot less than most people think.  I doubt it's worth having its own card.  But if it does have its own card, I suppose $5 is as good a price for it as any.  It sounds pretty high to me, but if you want to do it at all, it's probably worth doing at $5.   Still, compare it with Moat, another card  that offers a terminal +2 Cards.  Its other benefit is probably useful more often and is stronger when it is.

Quote
Propagandist -- $5 (Attack--Duration)
+$2
While this is in play, keep the most expensive card you bought on this turn in front of you until the start of your next turn. Each other player must buy or gain at least 1 copy of the card you bought, if he plays any cards that enable him to do so during his next turn.

I love the idea of mini-Possessing your opponents' buy phases.  That's great.

This implementation of the idea, however, has some logistical problems stemming from the fact that purchased cards go immediately into your discard pile.  That means that by the time you reach the end of your buy phase -- the soonest point at which it can be determined what the "most expensive" purchased card is -- your purchased card(s) can be almost ANYWHERE:

(1) The top discard of your discard pile (default behavior)
(2) On top of your deck (Nomad Camp)
(3) Anywhere in your deck (Inn)
(4) Anywhere in your deck or discard pile (play Black Market, buy something, then play Venture, triggering a reshuffle)
(5) In play (play Black Market, buy a Treasure card, then play Venture, which finds it and plays it)
(5) In your hand (play Black Market, buy a Treasure card, then play Adventurer, which finds it and draws it into your hand)
(6) In the trash (buy something, reveal Watchtower)

So what do you do?  Do you pull it out of play, or scour your deck for it, or whatever?  If you pull it out of the trash to leave it out, does it go back into the trash afterwards, or does it go into your deck?   It'll be a rules nightmare trying to untangle all the possibilities and very difficult to play in practice even if you did.

There's another problem, too:  what happens if all three of your opponents in a 4p game have a Propagandist out?   Do they all take effect?  If so, which one takes precedence?  I'd suggest only having the card affect the player to your left, but then it's a targeted attack.  In a 3p game where one player races the Propagandists and the others leave it alone, the winner will probably be determined solely by seating order.

I like the idea overall, but I don't know how to make it work.

Quote
Agitator -- $4 (Action)
When you buy this, all other players with 5 or more cards in hand discard a card.
When you play this, remove it from your deck and add it as the top card in any supply pile. The cards beneath it are not available until it is bought. If no player buys it by the start of your next turn, remove it from the pile and trash it.

I've seen several different incarnations of the idea of putting cards on top of supply piles, blocking them until they're uncovered.  I haven't tested the idea, but my suspicion is that it sounds better than it plays.  But by all means, try it out.  However, I'm pretty sure you need a vanilla bonus on this, or it will almost never be worth playing.  Attack cards nearly always have a supplemental benefit on them, because you need to be advancing the game even as you're setting it back.  +$2 seems like a good idea at this price point, and then Militia will still be the better card most of the time.

It should still be a weakish card overall, though, or else the game will degenerate into a race to see who can blockade the Agitator pile before the other player(s) have a chance to buy one.

Quote
Haunted Village -- $4 (Action)
+2 actions
Reveal the next 3 cards in your deck. Choose one and put it into your hand. Discard the others.

I've playtested this exact card very extensively.  It doesn't look like it, but it's a strong $5 card.  I love it, but it's a power card.  It's more than being able to draw the best card of 3 -- you get to skip the weaker ones entirely.  The result is that you can make almost any engine fire more quickly, be resilient to cursing, and not require trashing.  To make it a solid $4 Village, have the player return the other two cards to the top of the deck.  I've playtested that one extensively too.  When you still have to play the other two cards, the benefit is much smaller and thus more comparable to the other $4 Villages.

Quote
Profiteer -- $4 (Duration)
+$1
While this is in play, after your buy phase has ended you may reveal any Treasure cards from your hand. Put them in front of you, face-up. At the start of your next turn, add them to your hand.

I like the idea.  It's kind of a Super-Haven.  I wonder if it's too strong for $4, but playtesting will tell.

(continued)
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rinkworks

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Re: Fan Expansion: Strife
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2011, 04:58:11 pm »
0

(continued from previous post)

Quote
Tyrant King -- $4 (Reaction)
+$3
You can't play any more cards this turn (including Treasures).
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, you are unaffected by the Attack and must play this card during your next turn. You may not play any cards that could make it impossible for you to play this card.

You shouldn't really ever have any special-case rules on your cards just on principle:  because sooner or later you'll hit a rules quandary where one rule says to do one thing, and another rule says not to.  This card has two different special case rules, and both have issues:

(1) "You can't play any more cards this turn."  What if Golem turns up two Tyrant Kings?  You play one, and by the rules of that Tyrant King, you can't play anything else, but Golem insists that you must play the other Tyrant King.  You have to break one card's rule or the other's.

(2) "You may not play any cards that could make it impossible for you to play this card."   Are you allowed to play Tribute at the beginning of your next turn?  Because it MIGHT give you the extra actions you need to be able to play your mandated Tyrant King afterward.  But then again, it might not.  You don't know if it will or will not prevent you from subsequently playing Tyrant King until you've played and resolved the Tribute.  So are you disallowed from playing Tribute at all?  What if you KNOW the next two cards in your left-hand opponents' deck are action cards?  Are you allowed to play it then?

This kind of thing happens no matter what kind of special case rule you invent.  You're always better off rewriting the card to work within the rules somehow.  I'd suggest something,  but in this case I'm actually not really sure what effect you're going for.  Maybe something like this?

Tyrant King
$4 - Action/Reaction
+$3.  Discard your hand.
--
When another player plays an attack card, you may set this card aside from your hand.  If you do, then you are unaffected by the attack, and, at the beginning of your next turn, play this card.


In this version of the card, the reaction penalty is more severe than in your version, because you can't first play a Village and a Torturer and only then play the set-aside Tyrant King.  But you can change the penalty to something else if you prefer.

The "discard your hand" part can be circumvented with some tricks with Golem, but that's okay.  The effect is usually the same.

Quote
Vassal -- $4 (Duration)
Choose two: +1 card; +1 action; +$1; +1 buy; +1 VP; +$2 on your next turn. (The choices must be different.)

The presence of the VP option may lead to a degenerate game state where the optimal play is always to use it.  Imagine a deck consisting of five Vassals.  Optimal play may be to play all five for +1 Action, +1 VP, and never do anything else.  If all players do this, the game never ends.  It's rare, maybe, that this would happen, but compare with the official VP cards:  Goons and Bishop deplete the supply piles (directly or indirectly), which will cause the game to end eventually, and Monument is both a terminal (that is, hard to play in multiples) and offers money (which encourages the purchase of cards).

Otherwise, I'm concerned about the next-turn bookkeeping.   Picture multiple players playing multiples of these per turn (easy to do).  Will you all remember by your next turns which Vassals were played for +2 next turn and which were played for +$4?

Quote
Witch Hunt -- $4 (Attack)
+$1
Trash an Estate, a Curse, or a Copper. If you trash an Estate, each other player gains a Curse. If you trash a Curse, each other player gains an Estate. If you trash a Copper, each other player gains a Copper.

That's actually pretty cool.  I really like that card.  I suspect it's too strong, though, as the ability to both trash something and dispense something is brutal.  On the other hand, Ambassador only costs $3.

I noticed GendoIkari felt that this was too strong for a $4 cursing attack.  He might be right, but I dunno.  Baron is a terminal +$4 at a cost of only $4.  Needing an Estate in hand, therefore, would seem to allow for a pretty strong effect.   And the fact that you're trashing the Estate, rather than merely discarding it, means that you won't be able to dispense Curses ad nauseum.

You'll need to playtest to know for sure, but my guess is that even with the +$1, Ambassador is still the stronger card.  Don't use that as a price benchmark, because Ambassador is extraordinarily strong, but the comparison does suggest that maybe this card is okay as-is.

Quote
Banish -- $3 (Action)
+1 card, +1 action
You may move a card from your hand costing $4 or less to the island mat. If you do, each other player may trash a card of that type from his hand. If any player does, you get +$1.

This is probably okay, though there are enough components here that making a prediction without playtesting is tough.  I'd say a cantrip single-card trasher is probably balanced at $3.   Cantrip Islanding is sometimes weaker (Curses) but usually stronger (green cards).   But allowing your opponents to trash is a big deal, so maybe that's adequate compensation for both the Islanding and the Peddler effect.

Quote
False Prophet -- $3 (Action)
Name a card. The player to your left either reveals that card, or reveals a hand without that card. If that card is revealed, you gain its effects as if you had played a copy of it.
If the player to your left does not reveal that card, you gain a curse and get +1 card, +1 action.

"You gain its effects" is something to think about, though certainly Throne Room and King's Court already deal with playing copies of cards that aren't physically in play.  You should probably limit the choice to only Action and Treasure cards, though, since you can't play an Estate.   You should also think through whether "while in play" clauses (on cards such as Goons, Lighthouse, and Highway) take effect.  My take is no:  the "invisible copies" played by TR/KC don't duplicate the "while in play" clauses, so why should they take effect here?

Quote
Serf -- $3 (Action)
+1 action, +2 cards. Discard 1 card, or trash it.
When you play this, you have 1 fewer available buys.

I haven't read all the replies to this thread yet, but I noticed that someone mentioned that this is useless in kingdoms without a source of +Buy.

Quote
Spoils of War -- $3 (Victory--Treasure--Duration)
Worth 1 VP
Worth $2 now, and $2 on your next turn.
When you play this, it stays in play until your next turn is over.
You may only buy this if you have an Attack card in play and no player revealed a Reaction card in response to it. (Setup: If this pile will appear in the game, and there are no Attacks or Reactions in the supply, add an Attack and a Reaction at random. Then remove one of the other piles at random.

Seems a little complicated to me.  Is the Reaction part important?  I don't think you'd lose anything by dropping the Reaction requirements.   Also, with or without that, the card might still very well be a dead one.  What if the attack card is a terminal (and most attack cards are) and there are no Villages in the kingdom?   Then you can never play this with an attack card in play.

Otherwise, it seems like this is most interesting with weak attacks rather than strong ones.  With Village/Torturer on the table, that's the winning strategy anyway, so adding in a power card worth maybe $7 but costing only $3 is a no-brainer.  With Spy on the table, though, the strategic considerations are a lot more interesting.

Quote
Treaty -- $3 (Reaction--Duration)
+$2
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this card. If you do, you are unaffected by that Attack.
If you revealed this card in response to an Attack, it stays in play until another Attack is played. The next time any player (including you) plays an Attack card, all players are unaffected by that Attack.

Technically, a card revealed from your hand is not in play, and therefore it cannot stay in play.  I took a stab at rewording this (using the Horse Traders verbiage as the template), but I couldn't think of a clean way to do it.  Because while you could say "While this card is set aside, if another player plays an attack card..." but what if the card was set aside some other way, such as by Haven or on the Island mat?

I'm not sure I get the point of the card anyway.  You don't really want to help your other opponents most of the time, so that makes the card weaker.   In 2p, however, there is no difference between this card's reaction effect and Moat's.

Quote
Inquisitor -- $2 (Attack)
Choose one: +1 card; or +1 action; or +$1; or +1 buy
Each other player reveals his hand, keeping it revealed until the end of your turn.

Good reading on this topic.

Quote
Sacred Relic -- $2 (Reaction)
Trash a card from your hand.
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, +1 VP.

In a 2p game, +1 VP in response to an attack is as good as -1 VP on the attacker.  With more than 2 players, it still amounts to that if the other players are well behind.  Reactions that hurt the attacker have various problems.

But I like the top half of that card.  Seems like a simple "trash a card from your hand" would make a fine top half for some other $2 reaction card.

Overall, I think these cards need some work, but I think there is a good amount of material to work with and playtest in there.  Keep it up.
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rinkworks

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Re: Fan Expansion: Strife
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2011, 05:08:59 pm »
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Quote
Barbarian Horde -- $5 (Attack)
+1 buy
Add a token to the Barbarian Horde mat. Each other player reveals the next 3 cards of his deck and trashes a Treasure card corresponding to the number of tokens on the mat, or reveals no such card and gains a curse:
1-2 tokens: Copper
3-5 tokens: Silver
6 or more tokens: Gold
You get +$ equal to the combined value of the trashed Treasure cards.

So, is the Barbarian Horde mat communal, or does each player have their own? Either way, you can't refer to the 'value' of Treasure cards, since they have no intrinsic value other than their cost. Treasure cards generate a certain number of Coins when played, and depending on the situation, that number may vary drastically.

I meant to comment on this but forgot.  But yeah.  The problem is less severe if you're just talking about the base Treasure cards, as you are here, but just as an example, what if you play a Village, then Coppersmith, then Barbarian Horde.  Are the Coppers "worth $2" now?

You can think of Treasure cards like Action cards with vanilla +$ bonuses.  They aren't really worth anything so much as produce coins upon being played.  You wouldn't say a Chancellor is "worth $2."
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rinkworks

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Re: Fan Expansion: Strife
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2011, 05:12:17 pm »
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Quote
Quote
Profiteer -- $4 (Duration)
+$1
While this is in play, after your buy phase has ended you may reveal any Treasure cards from your hand. Put them in front of you, face-up. At the start of your next turn, add them to your hand.

This should say: "At the start of Clean-up, you may reveal any number of Treasure cards from your hand. Set them aside. At the start of your next turn, add them to your hand."

Also, it doesn't need to be a Duration card.

How about "At the start of Clean-up, you may reveal and set aside any number of Treasure cards from your hand.  At the start of your next turn, put them in your hand."?

It does need to be a Duration, though, doesn't it?  For the same reason Haven is a Duration card?
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Re: Fan Expansion: Strife
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2011, 05:18:13 pm »
0

Propagandist -- $5 (Attack--Duration)
+$2
While this is in play, keep the most expensive card you bought on this turn in front of you until the start of your next turn. Each other player must buy or gain at least 1 copy of the card you bought, if he plays any cards that enable him to do so during his next turn.

I love the idea of mini-Possessing your opponents' buy phases.  That's great.

This implementation of the idea, however, has some logistical problems stemming from the fact that purchased cards go immediately into your discard pile.  That means that by the time you reach the end of your buy phase -- the soonest point at which it can be determined what the "most expensive" purchased card is -- your purchased card(s) can be almost ANYWHERE:

Is keeping track of this any worse than, say, Smugglers?

The trickier part is adjudicating what the "most expensive" purchased card is:
  • Play Market, Market, Market, Gold; buy Peddler and Mining Village. What's the most expensive card you bought?
  • Play Quarry, Copper, Contraband; buy Silver and Mining Village. What's the most expensive card you bought?
  • Buy Province and Possession. There is officially no way to determine what the most expensive card you bought is.
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AJD

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Re: Fan Expansion: Strife
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2011, 05:22:51 pm »
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Maybe something like this?

Tyrant King
$4 - Action/Reaction
+$3.  Discard your hand.
--
When another player plays an attack card, you may set this card aside from your hand.  If you do, then you are unaffected by the attack, and, at the beginning of your next turn, play this card.


In this version of the card, the reaction penalty is more severe than in your version, because you can't first play a Village and a Torturer and only then play the set-aside Tyrant King.

This model has an interesting interaction with Duration cards: play the set-aside Tyrant King, then draw from your Wharves in waiting and play the rest of your turn. (You choose the order of "at the beginning of your next turn" effects!)
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GendoIkari

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Re: Fan Expansion: Strife
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2011, 05:37:38 pm »
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What if the attack card is a terminal (and most attack cards are) and there are no Villages in the kingdom?   Then you can never play this with an attack card in play.

You missed that this is a treasure card, not an action.
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Re: Fan Expansion: Strife
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2011, 06:16:14 pm »
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It does need to be a Duration, though, doesn't it?  For the same reason Haven is a Duration card?

I'm not convinced that Haven itself needed to be a Duration card. The set-aside cards should be reminder enough. It works for Horse Traders.
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Robz888

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Re: Fan Expansion: Strife
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2011, 09:16:08 pm »
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I'm not going to try to comment on whether these cards are balanced, but I will comment on your syntax.
Thanks for all the wording help!
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Robz888

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Re: Fan Expansion: Strife
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2011, 10:25:04 pm »
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Tyrant King
$4 - Action/Reaction
+$3.  Discard your hand.
--
When another player plays an attack card, you may set this card aside from your hand.  If you do, then you are unaffected by the attack, and, at the beginning of your next turn, play this card.


In this version of the card, the reaction penalty is more severe than in your version, because you can't first play a Village and a Torturer and only then play the set-aside Tyrant King.  But you can change the penalty to something else if you prefer.

The "discard your hand" part can be circumvented with some tricks with Golem, but that's okay.  The effect is usually the same.
Thank you, sir, for your ideas with all the cards. I really struggled getting this one right the most (I fiddled with its +$ and cost a LOT), and your wording is much, much better.

Vassal -- $4 (Duration)
Choose two: +1 card; +1 action; +$1; +1 buy; +1 VP; +$2 on your next turn. (The choices must be different.)

The presence of the VP option may lead to a degenerate game state where the optimal play is always to use it.  Imagine a deck consisting of five Vassals.  Optimal play may be to play all five for +1 Action, +1 VP, and never do anything else.  If all players do this, the game never ends.  It's rare, maybe, that this would happen, but compare with the official VP cards:  Goons and Bishop deplete the supply piles (directly or indirectly), which will cause the game to end eventually, and Monument is both a terminal (that is, hard to play in multiples) and offers money (which encourages the purchase of cards).

Otherwise, I'm concerned about the next-turn bookkeeping.   Picture multiple players playing multiples of these per turn (easy to do).  Will you all remember by your next turns which Vassals were played for +2 next turn and which were played for +$4?
The idea was that the only one of those options that can take effect next turn is the +$2. You have a point when it comes to spamming the +1 VP, though (considering Monument is sort of underrated, right?) I may drop the VP option, bump it down to cost $3, and stipulate that you can pick the same thing twice, though that would still have some bookkeeping difficulties.

False Prophet -- $3 (Action)
Name a card. The player to your left either reveals that card, or reveals a hand without that card. If that card is revealed, you gain its effects as if you had played a copy of it.
If the player to your left does not reveal that card, you gain a curse and get +1 card, +1 action.

"You gain its effects" is something to think about, though certainly Throne Room and King's Court already deal with playing copies of cards that aren't physically in play.  You should probably limit the choice to only Action and Treasure cards, though, since you can't play an Estate.   You should also think through whether "while in play" clauses (on cards such as Goons, Lighthouse, and Highway) take effect.  My take is no:  the "invisible copies" played by TR/KC don't duplicate the "while in play" clauses, so why should they take effect here?
I like your take. You can only select Actions and Treasures that are actually physically present in the other player's hand.

Spoils of War -- $3 (Victory--Treasure--Duration)
Worth 1 VP
Worth $2 now, and $2 on your next turn.
When you play this, it stays in play until your next turn is over.
You may only buy this if you have an Attack card in play and no player revealed a Reaction card in response to it. (Setup: If this pile will appear in the game, and there are no Attacks or Reactions in the supply, add an Attack and a Reaction at random. Then remove one of the other piles at random.

Seems a little complicated to me.  Is the Reaction part important?  I don't think you'd lose anything by dropping the Reaction requirements.   Also, with or without that, the card might still very well be a dead one.  What if the attack card is a terminal (and most attack cards are) and there are no Villages in the kingdom?   Then you can never play this with an attack card in play.

Otherwise, it seems like this is most interesting with weak attacks rather than strong ones.  With Village/Torturer on the table, that's the winning strategy anyway, so adding in a power card worth maybe $7 but costing only $3 is a no-brainer.  With Spy on the table, though, the strategic considerations are a lot more interesting.

I like the idea of dropping the Reaction part, though that would have the effect of making strong Attacks even more worthwhile ("This Robz888 wants to start handing out consolation prizes to Mountebankers. What a jerk!) But you're right that it would add a cool incentive for weaker Attacks.

Treaty -- $3 (Reaction--Duration)
+$2
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this card. If you do, you are unaffected by that Attack.
If you revealed this card in response to an Attack, it stays in play until another Attack is played. The next time any player (including you) plays an Attack card, all players are unaffected by that Attack.

Technically, a card revealed from your hand is not in play, and therefore it cannot stay in play.  I took a stab at rewording this (using the Horse Traders verbiage as the template), but I couldn't think of a clean way to do it.  Because while you could say "While this card is set aside, if another player plays an attack card..." but what if the card was set aside some other way, such as by Haven or on the Island mat?

I'm not sure I get the point of the card anyway.  You don't really want to help your other opponents most of the time, so that makes the card weaker.   In 2p, however, there is no difference between this card's reaction effect and Moat's.

What I was going for with this card was a sort of super-strong defense against Attacks. It is supposed to defend you like Moat, and then automatically enter play and defend you once again, without even taking up a space in your hand (and I see I worded it badly). My hope with this card was that you could actually pursue a non-Attack strategy on a board with strong Attacks, because this card would defend you really well. And if you don't buy Attacks, the fact that it also prevents your Attacks from hurting other players isn't a big deal.

Inquisitor -- $2 (Attack)
Choose one: +1 card; or +1 action; or +$1; or +1 buy
Each other player reveals his hand, keeping it revealed until the end of your turn.

Good reading on this topic.
I added the Inquisitor to synergize with False Prophet, a card that would greatly benefit from knowing your opponent's hand.

Overall, I think these cards need some work, but I think there is a good amount of material to work with and playtest in there.  Keep it up.
Thanks for your thoughts and encouragement! I'm really excited about implementing many of these ideas before playtesting.
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Qvist

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Re: Fan Expansion: Strife
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2011, 05:44:51 am »
0


I don't want to comment all cards as most things have already been said.
But one comment to one card:
Spoils of War -- $3 (Victory--Treasure--Duration)
Worth 1 VP
Worth $2 now, and $2 on your next turn.
When you play this, it stays in play until your next turn is over.
You may only buy this if you have an Attack card in play and no player revealed a Reaction card in response to it. (Setup: If this pile will appear in the game, and there are no Attacks or Reactions in the supply, add an Attack and a Reaction at random. Then remove one of the other piles at random.

This card is strictly superior to Merchant Ship: It don't cost an action and gives 1 VP.
And I don't think the buy restriction (which I don't like) will make it that much less expensive.
The buy restriction is too restrictive. Only add restriction which what you can guarantee to happen (like no copper for Grand Market).
What about: "You can't buy this if you have any duration card in play"
So, you can your first Spoils of War for sure but your second one will have the prerequisite that Spoils of War is not in play.
Either way, the card is worth ~$7.

rinkworks

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Re: Fan Expansion: Strife
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2011, 08:16:02 am »
0

Propagandist -- $5 (Attack--Duration)
+$2
While this is in play, keep the most expensive card you bought on this turn in front of you until the start of your next turn. Each other player must buy or gain at least 1 copy of the card you bought, if he plays any cards that enable him to do so during his next turn.

I love the idea of mini-Possessing your opponents' buy phases.  That's great.

This implementation of the idea, however, has some logistical problems stemming from the fact that purchased cards go immediately into your discard pile.  That means that by the time you reach the end of your buy phase -- the soonest point at which it can be determined what the "most expensive" purchased card is -- your purchased card(s) can be almost ANYWHERE:

Is keeping track of this any worse than, say, Smugglers?

No, but the instructions were to leave a purchased card out rather than to simply remember what was bought.  Also, Smugglers considers any card gained, rather than any card bought, which is probably slightly easier to remember, since you don't have to remember how a card was gained.

You're right that the mechanics are probably workable if the card does it the way Smugglers does.

Good thoughts on what constitutes "most expensive," too.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Fan Expansion: Strife
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2011, 01:30:59 pm »
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Spoils of War -- $3 (Victory--Treasure--Duration)
Worth 1 VP
Worth $2 now, and $2 on your next turn.
When you play this, it stays in play until your next turn is over.
You may only buy this if you have an Attack card in play and no player revealed a Reaction card in response to it. (Setup: If this pile will appear in the game, and there are no Attacks or Reactions in the supply, add an Attack and a Reaction at random. Then remove one of the other piles at random.

One other thing with the wording of the setup instructions... Fools Gold, Tunnel, Watchtower, and Trader are all reaction cards, but they don't react to attacks. You would need to specify that there has to be a reaction that reacts to an attack, which would be messy wording.
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Robz888

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Re: Fan Expansion: Strife
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2011, 10:11:28 pm »
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I don't want to comment all cards as most things have already been said.
But one comment to one card:
Spoils of War -- $3 (Victory--Treasure--Duration)
Worth 1 VP
Worth $2 now, and $2 on your next turn.
When you play this, it stays in play until your next turn is over.
You may only buy this if you have an Attack card in play and no player revealed a Reaction card in response to it. (Setup: If this pile will appear in the game, and there are no Attacks or Reactions in the supply, add an Attack and a Reaction at random. Then remove one of the other piles at random.

This card is strictly superior to Merchant Ship: It don't cost an action and gives 1 VP.
And I don't think the buy restriction (which I don't like) will make it that much less expensive.
The buy restriction is too restrictive. Only add restriction which what you can guarantee to happen (like no copper for Grand Market).
What about: "You can't buy this if you have any duration card in play"
So, you can your first Spoils of War for sure but your second one will have the prerequisite that Spoils of War is not in play.
Either way, the card is worth ~$7.
I am thinking of revising the card in this way:

Spoils of War -- $5 (Victory--Action)
Worth 1 VP
Set aside an Attack card you have in play that has not already been set aside. If you do: +1 action, +$1, and Victory cards cost $1 less, but not less than 0. Discard the Attack card during Clean-Up.

You can only play one per Attack you have in play. This way, it would be hard to play it in conjunction with the powerful terminal attacks (like Mountebank and Witch), but would be a nice alternate strategy to accompany Spy, and some of the other weaker Attacks I've added above (like my False Prophet and Inquisitor). Of course, this would be a really, really good card for Familiar, an already powerful Attack, so yeah...
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rinkworks

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Re: Fan Expansion: Strife
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2011, 09:50:51 am »
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I am thinking of revising the card in this way:

Spoils of War -- $5 (Victory--Action)
Worth 1 VP
Set aside an Attack card you have in play that has not already been set aside. If you do: +1 action, +$1, and Victory cards cost $1 less, but not less than 0. Discard the Attack card during Clean-Up.

You can only play one per Attack you have in play. This way, it would be hard to play it in conjunction with the powerful terminal attacks (like Mountebank and Witch), but would be a nice alternate strategy to accompany Spy, and some of the other weaker Attacks I've added above (like my False Prophet and Inquisitor). Of course, this would be a really, really good card for Familiar, an already powerful Attack, so yeah...

I think it still needs work.  The benefits of the card upon play, should you qualify to get them in the first place, is roughly a Silver.  It's actually worse unless you have +Buy, because if you don't want to buy a Victory card, then it's only a Copper.  That's a pretty poor benefit for a $5 card you have to work hard to activate.  By the way, it's impossible to activate in the absence of Villages and non-terminal attack cards.

How about this for an activation condition?  When you play it, you have to reveal it from your hand.  Thus, you have to not only have an attack card in hand at the time, but you must possibly forego playing it in order to reap the benefits.

Then make the benefits something spectacular to reward the collision (see also: Treasure Map, Fool's Gold, Baron, Tournament) and also foregoing the attack.  But don't include +Actions as part of the reward, or then you'd never actually have to forego playing the attack.  Then you have fun combos with Villages, but the card isn't completely useless without them.

Also, definitely keep the setup instructions, to force having an attack card available whenever this is.
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