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Author Topic: Movies: Any movie buffs?  (Read 349151 times)

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Awaclus

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1175 on: February 19, 2017, 05:30:53 pm »
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Today, I watched Let The Right One In. I think that might have been legitimately the worst movie I've ever seen and I'm just dumbfounded at all the critical acclaim it has gotten. The one explanation that I can think of is that, at the time of its release, I suppose it would have been compared with Twilight a lot, whereas I can't help but to compare it with Monogatari instead. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Like, it had a pretty okay premise... and then it just kind of dragged on for almost 2 hours with very little development to the plot or the characters, to the point where you could foresee the ending within the first quarter of the movie, and there wasn't anything even remotely interesting going on in the middle, either.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2017, 05:36:37 pm by Awaclus »
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1176 on: February 19, 2017, 08:07:51 pm »
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Today, I watched Let The Right One In. I think that might have been legitimately the worst movie I've ever seen and I'm just dumbfounded at all the critical acclaim it has gotten. The one explanation that I can think of is that, at the time of its release, I suppose it would have been compared with Twilight a lot, whereas I can't help but to compare it with Monogatari instead. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Like, it had a pretty okay premise... and then it just kind of dragged on for almost 2 hours with very little development to the plot or the characters, to the point where you could foresee the ending within the first quarter of the movie, and there wasn't anything even remotely interesting going on in the middle, either.

Maybe you saw the American remake?
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Kuildeous

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1177 on: February 19, 2017, 11:47:29 pm »
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I liked Let the Right One In, though I would say it was overrated.

Except for that cat scene. That was...simply awful.
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Awaclus

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1178 on: February 20, 2017, 03:47:47 am »
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Today, I watched Let The Right One In. I think that might have been legitimately the worst movie I've ever seen and I'm just dumbfounded at all the critical acclaim it has gotten. The one explanation that I can think of is that, at the time of its release, I suppose it would have been compared with Twilight a lot, whereas I can't help but to compare it with Monogatari instead. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Like, it had a pretty okay premise... and then it just kind of dragged on for almost 2 hours with very little development to the plot or the characters, to the point where you could foresee the ending within the first quarter of the movie, and there wasn't anything even remotely interesting going on in the middle, either.

Maybe you saw the American remake?

No, this time I made sure I saw the original.

I liked Let the Right One In, though I would say it was overrated.

Except for that cat scene. That was...simply awful.

Why did you like it? I mean, at least the cat scene was ridiculous enough to make me laugh so I would say it was one of the most entertaining scenes in the film.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 05:27:28 am by Awaclus »
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Kuildeous

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1179 on: February 20, 2017, 11:05:07 am »
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It was a decent enough story about an outsider boy having a crush on the neighbor girl who happened to be a vampire. And then there was the story of her caretaker. It wouldn't hit my Top 5 list, but it was enjoyable to watch.

I did feel that the ending was forced. I mean, when people who want to do you harm won't bother to go into the water after you, then you can stay out there for a while, especially when you've built up some endurance. So why go to the bully? It was a sloppy way to progress to the bloody scene.
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Awaclus

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1180 on: February 20, 2017, 11:21:17 am »
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It was a decent enough story about an outsider boy having a crush on the neighbor girl who happened to be a vampire.

I mean, it's a decent enough premise. The problem is that the entire story is spent on the boy slowly discovering that she's a vampire (and proceeding to hardly react at all when he finally learns the truth — you would think that something like that would have quite dramatic effects on their relationship), which is not very interesting to the audience since the audience has known that she's a vampire since the very beginning of the film.

And then there was the story of her caretaker.

Which is super unbelievable. I mean, he's supposed to be a serial killer, but based on what we see in the movie, he sucks at being a serial killer so much that it takes all the believability out of it. I mean, is the police even trying?
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1181 on: March 09, 2017, 09:23:01 am »
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The last movie I have watched was the La La Land.
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1182 on: March 09, 2017, 09:29:06 am »
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I watched Logan last night.  Very good.
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DG

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1183 on: March 09, 2017, 09:55:36 am »
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Today, I watched Let The Right One In. I think that might have been legitimately the worst movie I've ever seen and I'm just dumbfounded at all the critical acclaim it has gotten. The one explanation that I can think of is that, at the time of its release, I suppose it would have been compared with Twilight a lot, whereas I can't help but to compare it with Monogatari instead. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Like, it had a pretty okay premise... and then it just kind of dragged on for almost 2 hours with very little development to the plot or the characters, to the point where you could foresee the ending within the first quarter of the movie, and there wasn't anything even remotely interesting going on in the middle, either.

You seem to have misread their relationship so it's not surprising that you found the film dull. She has been grooming him to be her next caretaker from the very start. The psychological horror comes from comparing the innocent boy with the caretaker he will become. That is the character development you missed.

Intelligent films always suffer from an audience that is too stupid or too clever. A stupid audience can't understand enough to appreciate it. A clever audience will find all the developments and revelations to be predictable. (I think the same is also true for viewers reading the emotions of characters in films.)
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 10:23:25 am by DG »
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Awaclus

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1184 on: March 09, 2017, 10:32:39 am »
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Today, I watched Let The Right One In. I think that might have been legitimately the worst movie I've ever seen and I'm just dumbfounded at all the critical acclaim it has gotten. The one explanation that I can think of is that, at the time of its release, I suppose it would have been compared with Twilight a lot, whereas I can't help but to compare it with Monogatari instead. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Like, it had a pretty okay premise... and then it just kind of dragged on for almost 2 hours with very little development to the plot or the characters, to the point where you could foresee the ending within the first quarter of the movie, and there wasn't anything even remotely interesting going on in the middle, either.

You seem to have misread their relationship so it's not surprising that you found the film dull. She has been grooming him to be her next caretaker from the very start. His entrapment is the character development. This provides the psychological horror.

I don't think it's possible to misread a piece of art. With that being said, I didn't really think of it that way at all, but more so than having missed it, I think I just didn't care because as I said, the old caretaker is so incompetent at what he's trying to do that I didn't spend a single thought on how horrible it must have been for him to live his life that way — instead, I was focusing on how unbelievable it was that he would still suck so much even after he's presumably been her caretaker for a pretty long time, and how unbelievable it was that he hadn't gotten caught any sooner, as well as a bunch of unrelated unbelievableness that was also going on. So it didn't hit me that it could be a horrible fate for the boy to end up in the same spot, especially since he also was apparently totally fine with her being a vampire given his almost complete lack of reaction when he found out.
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tripwire

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1185 on: March 09, 2017, 11:13:25 am »
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I don't think it's possible to misread a piece of art.

I haven't sen the film you are discussing, so I don't know if I would characterize your reaction as a "misreading," but it is definitely possible to misread art. Certainly there is a range of viable readings possible, but then they are others that just ignore major aspects of that work.

For example, Moby Dick probably has an infinite range of supportable interpretations, but if I said it's a book about selling cotton candy on the moon then I am objectively wrong. That is a misreading.

(Although I could definitely be convinced to read a book about that)
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1186 on: March 09, 2017, 11:15:42 am »
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I don't think it's possible to misread a piece of art.

I haven't sen the film you are discussing, so I don't know if I would characterize your reaction as a "misreading," but it is definitely possible to misread art. Certainly there is a range of viable readings possible, but then they are others that just ignore major aspects of that work.

For example, Moby Dick probably has an infinite range of supportable interpretations, but if I said it's a book about selling cotton candy on the moon then I am objectively wrong. That is a misreading.

(Although I could definitely be convinced to read a book about that)

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Awaclus

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1187 on: March 09, 2017, 11:28:31 am »
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For example, Moby Dick probably has an infinite range of supportable interpretations, but if I said it's a book about selling cotton candy on the moon then I am objectively wrong.

Not really. If you say that it's a book about selling cotton candy on the moon, you are wrong because you don't really believe that yourself, not because it can't be a book about selling cotton candy on the moon. Perhaps someone has had a deeply emotional experience while selling cotton candy on the moon, and Moby Dick reminds him of his cotton candy selling adventure so much that he interprets the story in the light of his experiences — I would say that it's a perfectly valid interpretation.
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1188 on: March 09, 2017, 11:36:07 am »
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How can you call any movie the worst movie you've seen if you disallow any objective statement to be made about it?
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Awaclus

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1189 on: March 09, 2017, 11:57:14 am »
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How can you call any movie the worst movie you've seen

I said that's what I think. A lot of people think it's very good and that's fine too, I just don't understand why.

Besides, there are also objective things that you can say about movies, in regards to their quality.
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1190 on: March 09, 2017, 12:12:59 pm »
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For example, Moby Dick probably has an infinite range of supportable interpretations, but if I said it's a book about selling cotton candy on the moon then I am objectively wrong.

Not really. If you say that it's a book about selling cotton candy on the moon, you are wrong because you don't really believe that yourself, not because it can't be a book about selling cotton candy on the moon. Perhaps someone has had a deeply emotional experience while selling cotton candy on the moon, and Moby Dick reminds him of his cotton candy selling adventure so much that he interprets the story in the light of his experiences — I would say that it's a perfectly valid interpretation.

There's a difference between Moby Dick reminding someone about selling cotton candy on the moon and Moby Dick being about selling cotton candy on the moon.
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Awaclus

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1191 on: March 09, 2017, 12:18:21 pm »
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There's a difference between Moby Dick reminding someone about selling cotton candy on the moon and Moby Dick being about selling cotton candy on the moon.

But if he interprets it that way, then there's no difference.
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1192 on: March 09, 2017, 12:37:40 pm »
+2

For example, Moby Dick probably has an infinite range of supportable interpretations, but if I said it's a book about selling cotton candy on the moon then I am objectively wrong.

Not really. If you say that it's a book about selling cotton candy on the moon, you are wrong because you don't really believe that yourself, not because it can't be a book about selling cotton candy on the moon. Perhaps someone has had a deeply emotional experience while selling cotton candy on the moon, and Moby Dick reminds him of his cotton candy selling adventure so much that he interprets the story in the light of his experiences — I would say that it's a perfectly valid interpretation.

Here's a quick question: if someone's interpretation or "reading" relies on a mistake (for example, they mishear the lyrics to a song or only watch the first half of a movie) is their interpretation not a "misreading"?

Now here's my longer response that most likely should be ignored, but I teach literary analysis so I can't not say it:

Likely this is a case of me operating under a different definition of "interpretation" than you are. I would say what you describe is a valid response to Moby Dick but not a valid interpretation. For me, and I would argue for most critics of various arts, interpretation involves translating the meaning of a text so that other people can recognize that meaning too. Just think of the other ways "interpreter" are used in other contexts, for example a sign-language interpreter. Also, the etymology of "interpret"  suggests this same reliance on communication to others. So an interpretation operates as a mediation between a "text" and other "readers."

As a result, interpretations that rely on idiosyncratic and personal experiences are not useful interpretations. An interpretation must point to objective details about a work (its "textual" or formal elements, its context, its relationship to other texts, etc.) in order to be valid.

A response, like the one this hypothetical cotton candy salesperson has, can be valuable because they can point readers in the direction of valid interpretations, but are not valid interpretations in and of themselves. So maybe after considering the connections between Moby Dick and their experience, the cotton candy reader recognizes what the book says about capitalism or living in a strange and alien world. In that case, they can claim that Moby Dick is about capitalism and thus is relevant to selling cotton candy on the moon. But that doesn't mean that the book is about cotton candy on the moon.
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1193 on: March 09, 2017, 12:43:30 pm »
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There's a difference between Moby Dick reminding someone about selling cotton candy on the moon and Moby Dick being about selling cotton candy on the moon.

But if he interprets it that way, then there's no difference.

I interpret what you just said to mean "AndrewisFTTW is correct and Awaclus is wrong". I guess that means I'm right. End of discussion.
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1194 on: March 09, 2017, 12:46:23 pm »
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I watched Logan last night.  Very good.

Saw it on Tuesday. I also agree. For me it really understands what makes Wolverine and Professor X great characters, and pushes those qualities to the Nth degree.

That said, I felt there were possibly some inconsistencies between the messaging of the film and its presentation, but I also need to remind myself that this is a big blockbuster, and just because Fury Road stands up to that level of scrutiny doesn't mean that all other big action films need to.
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1195 on: March 09, 2017, 01:24:04 pm »
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There's a difference between Moby Dick reminding someone about selling cotton candy on the moon and Moby Dick being about selling cotton candy on the moon.

But if he interprets it that way, then there's no difference.

I interpret what you just said to mean "AndrewisFTTW is correct and Awaclus is wrong". I guess that means I'm right. End of discussion.

Isn't that the subtext? The author's arguments rely on relativism, and by presenting his own points in a way suited to make them seem entirely absurd, he intentionally gives the message that, in relativism, arguing about truth values, and therefore his own post, is pointless and futile. It's the art of absurdity, brought to the perfect conclusion. He cannot possibly make a statement, as his statement is the valuelessness of statements, and this desperation is brought in grotesque, comical form. So in a way, he does indeed say that you are correct and that you aren't. It's true beauty in the void of reason. Da capo!
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Awaclus

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1196 on: March 09, 2017, 01:34:35 pm »
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Here's a quick question: if someone's interpretation or "reading" relies on a mistake (for example, they mishear the lyrics to a song or only watch the first half of a movie) is their interpretation not a "misreading"?

That's an interesting question, but I'd say that it isn't. It might be an interpretation that is going to change over time, but that doesn't make it an invalid one. Certainly, there are songs that I keep mishearing even though I know what the lyrics are supposed to say (such as the popular song Nakkivene by Rudimental), and the way I experience those songs is according to the misheard lyrics, not the intended ones. And there are movies that very intentionally contain information that many people are going to miss, such as untranslated speech in a foreign language that some people might understand and others won't, or text written in a fictional alphabet that fans had to decrypt, and I guess if you can't consider an interpretation based on only seeing parts of the movie a valid one, very few people would be able to interpret these kinds of movies, which sounds wrong to me.

Likely this is a case of me operating under a different definition of "interpretation" than you are. I would say what you describe is a valid response to Moby Dick but not a valid interpretation. For me, and I would argue for most critics of various arts, interpretation involves translating the meaning of a text so that other people can recognize that meaning too. Just think of the other ways "interpreter" are used in other contexts, for example a sign-language interpreter. Also, the etymology of "interpret"  suggests this same reliance on communication to others. So an interpretation operates as a mediation between a "text" and other "readers."

As a result, interpretations that rely on idiosyncratic and personal experiences are not useful interpretations. An interpretation must point to objective details about a work (its "textual" or formal elements, its context, its relationship to other texts, etc.) in order to be valid.

A response, like the one this hypothetical cotton candy salesperson has, can be valuable because they can point readers in the direction of valid interpretations, but are not valid interpretations in and of themselves. So maybe after considering the connections between Moby Dick and their experience, the cotton candy reader recognizes what the book says about capitalism or living in a strange and alien world. In that case, they can claim that Moby Dick is about capitalism and thus is relevant to selling cotton candy on the moon. But that doesn't mean that the book is about cotton candy on the moon.

I didn't even realize that interpret and interpret are technically the same word in English until now. Finnish has two separate words; one for explaining the meaning of something to other people (tulkata) and another one for explaining the meaning of something to yourself (tulkita). I'm talking about the latter one here — it's almost exclusively the word people use when talking about the meaning of art in Finnish. Actually, I don't really think that a piece of art can mean the exact same thing to multiple different people, because everyone has their own personal experiences and they interpret everything in the light of them.

I interpret what you just said to mean "AndrewisFTTW is correct and Awaclus is wrong". I guess that means I'm right. End of discussion.

Except I don't believe that you really interpret it that way.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 01:36:38 pm by Awaclus »
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1197 on: March 09, 2017, 02:04:32 pm »
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I didn't even realize that interpret and interpret are technically the same word in English until now. Finnish has two separate words; one for explaining the meaning of something to other people (tulkata) and another one for explaining the meaning of something to yourself (tulkita). I'm talking about the latter one here — it's almost exclusively the word people use when talking about the meaning of art in Finnish. Actually, I don't really think that a piece of art can mean the exact same thing to multiple different people, because everyone has their own personal experiences and they interpret everything in the light of them.


That's extremely interesting, and it probably suggests that you should use a different word than "interpret." I suggested "respond," but I guess you could say "interpret a personal meaning," or something like that.

I guess my big question now is, why would Finnish art critics focus on "tulkita" rather than "tulkata"? From my perspective that makes art criticism almost entirely useless.
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1198 on: March 09, 2017, 02:36:43 pm »
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Except I don't believe that you really interpret it that way.

Your belief has no bearing on my interpretation. Using your own logic, my interpretation is not only valid but correct. Thus, I am irrefutably right and you are wrong.
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1199 on: March 09, 2017, 02:51:28 pm »
+3

There's no way this conversation will be not productive.
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