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Author Topic: Movies: Any movie buffs?  (Read 346797 times)

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Asper

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #825 on: January 21, 2016, 11:12:31 am »
0

Thinking about it, i guess the question is mostly where you draw the line of what is reasonable. We both will agree that questioning a witness who has good reason to lie is reasonable. We also agree that going for a space monkey theory is not reasonable. We differ on whether doubting a witness who swore an oath and has no apparent reason to lie is reasonable. I say it's not, you seem to say it is. My point is that when one goes with your position, calling witnesses into court at all is a farce.
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Teproc

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #826 on: January 21, 2016, 11:38:25 am »
+1

It's been a while since I've seen it, so you might be right about certain specifics being a bit far-fetched (and I do remember it getting a bit too close to "the truth is unknowable anyway"). So maybe in this specific case Fonda's character is stretching the definition of reasonable doubt, but that's not because it's a parody, I (reasonably) doubt you really believe that. The reason is simply that it makes for better suspense : you're presented with what seems like unsurmountable evidence and then you see Fonda's character tear it apart, which I found to be very enjoyable. It sounds like you didn't really think he was effective at tearing some of those apart, fair enough.

As for your specific points : discrediting witnesses is a thing, you must be aware of that right ? Maybe the glasses thing is a bit far-fetched, but it's something that happens all the time in those situations, and with reason : people's memories are unreliable. That doesn't mean you can't ever trust a witness because you'll always find something : you don't have to go from one extreme to the other.

There's also another aspect in 12 Angry Men, which is the death penalty. The reason Fonda has a pretty loose definition of what constitutes reasonable doubt also has to do with the, well, final quality of the sentence.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 11:40:32 am by Teproc »
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Kuildeous

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #827 on: January 21, 2016, 12:51:54 pm »
+1

As for your specific points : discrediting witnesses is a thing, you must be aware of that right ?

It is a thing, but isn't that the attorneys' place to determine the relevancy of that?

It's been a real long time since I read it, but I seem to recall that the jury was doing detective work in the realm outside of the court case. If the attorney didn't think her vision was relevant to the case (and he'd speak up if he did), then is it reasonable for the jury to go that extra mile?

I dunno. Maybe it's time to cast Summon Theory. IANAL, but I'll continue to giggle every time I type that out.
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Asper

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #828 on: January 21, 2016, 01:21:17 pm »
+1

It's been a while since I've seen it, so you might be right about certain specifics being a bit far-fetched (and I do remember it getting a bit too close to "the truth is unknowable anyway"). So maybe in this specific case Fonda's character is stretching the definition of reasonable doubt, but that's not because it's a parody, I (reasonably) doubt you really believe that. The reason is simply that it makes for better suspense : you're presented with what seems like unsurmountable evidence and then you see Fonda's character tear it apart, which I found to be very enjoyable. It sounds like you didn't really think he was effective at tearing some of those apart, fair enough.

As for your specific points : discrediting witnesses is a thing, you must be aware of that right ? Maybe the glasses thing is a bit far-fetched, but it's something that happens all the time in those situations, and with reason : people's memories are unreliable. That doesn't mean you can't ever trust a witness because you'll always find something : you don't have to go from one extreme to the other.

There's also another aspect in 12 Angry Men, which is the death penalty. The reason Fonda has a pretty loose definition of what constitutes reasonable doubt also has to do with the, well, final quality of the sentence.

I said "Parody" in the sense that i think it's outrageous, not that it actively tries to make fun of something. Maybe i misused the word, it might lack the reading it has in my mother tongue. Maybe i should have said "Travesty"? And Kuildous makes another point that i just touched - the jury member does an attorney's work. I think that's not okay and actively dangerous. When i saw the movie i couldn't help feeling he had a hidden motive and was just good at manipulating people. I take it you wouldn't accept his behaviour if he was trying to make others believe the subject was guilty, right?
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Teproc

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #829 on: January 21, 2016, 01:24:49 pm »
+1

Isn't it adressed though ? Specifically the knife thing is way outside a juror's prerogative, and I do believe that is discussed there. Not that satisfactorily though, you're right. Again a case where the director went for drama over thematic coherence, which I'll admit is somewhat problematic when you're making that kind of film.
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Asper

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #830 on: January 21, 2016, 03:12:44 pm »
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Isn't it adressed though ? Specifically the knife thing is way outside a juror's prerogative, and I do believe that is discussed there. Not that satisfactorily though, you're right. Again a case where the director went for drama over thematic coherence, which I'll admit is somewhat problematic when you're making that kind of film.

The thing is, i don't disagree with the topic of the movie at all - a person shouldn't be found guilty only because you can't prove their inncocence, even if there is evidence, be critical of it, etc.. I just think the movie overdoes it, and by doing so, harms its own point.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 03:15:58 pm by Asper »
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Grujah

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #831 on: January 21, 2016, 03:47:15 pm »
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As for your specific points : discrediting witnesses is a thing, you must be aware of that right ?

It is a thing, but isn't that the attorneys' place to determine the relevancy of that?

It's been a real long time since I read it, but I seem to recall that the jury was doing detective work in the realm outside of the court case. If the attorney didn't think her vision was relevant to the case (and he'd speak up if he did), then is it reasonable for the jury to go that extra mile?

I dunno. Maybe it's time to cast Summon Theory. IANAL, but I'll continue to giggle every time I type that out.

Yes, if you do outside investigation, you are probably going to be relieved of jury duty. You are not allowed to read the papers (i believe), and private investigation goes beyond that. So yes, Fonda goes beyond what is in the duty of a juror.

But I don't really think it matters. As Teproc said, it is a movie about morality. The other people just accept that he has done it and want to go on with their lives, Fonda has deeper, almost philosophical approach. The details might not fit perfectly, but I don't think it makes the movie that much worse.
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #832 on: January 24, 2016, 04:42:11 pm »
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Watched Hector and the Search for Happiness this weekend. Went into knowing nothing about it and liked it for an easy watch. Found out later the Internet doesn't care toomuch for it.
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Kuildeous

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #833 on: January 24, 2016, 10:07:24 pm »
+1

Okay, I finally caught the Hateful Eight. I liked it. I can certainly see how critics of QT would dislike it. It is long, and there are long periods where nothing happens. It is a QT movie.

The characters were interesting, though a couple of them really could have used some more attention just so that they didn't feel like background characters.

The mystery aspect was fun, and I had no idea what to expect, so while I wasn't wowwed by the reveal, it was still pleasing to see it unfold. I honestly had no idea what it was going to be. There was the perfect set-up for Chris being involved. Just because he was about to drink the coffee did not preclude him being culpable. The murderer could have easily watched the people drinking coffee and then conveniently time his approach to the coffee in order to look innocent. I was actually expecting that, but I'm kind of glad QT didn't try to milk that twist.

I would definitely say that fans of Reservoir Dogs would love the Hateful Eight. It had the same elements of betrayal, mistrust, and focus on conversation.
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KingZog3

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #834 on: January 24, 2016, 10:13:14 pm »
+1

I actually also saw the Hateful Eight tonight. I really liked it, but yeah, it will feel slow if you don't like slow movies. For me it felt short. It flew by and I was interested the whole time. I do agree some of the characters  could have used a bit more development, but at the same time it's nice that there is still mystery to them. It's not all explained, and there's still an air of mysticism about the whole thing.
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ashersky

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #835 on: January 25, 2016, 03:29:50 am »
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Finally watched The Tale of the Princess Kaguya.  If you go into it hoping for Miyazaki, you will be sorely disappointed.  You could definitely feel Takahata's influence, especially the scenes in the countryside, but in a lot of ways the pacing and story reminded me more of popular Japanese period soap operas than a slightly fantastical folk tale retold.

The art is purposefully drawn, and other than one scene where Kaguya runs, it isn't very interesting to me.  There were some beautiful shots in the beginning, with the shining light and the bamboo, but overall I was underwhelmed.  There is a nod to Spirited Away during the end sequence, though.
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #836 on: January 25, 2016, 08:58:01 am »
+1

On The Hateful Eight; I thought the final scene where they hang Daisy was brilliant and had me laughing out loud in the theatre.
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Seprix

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #837 on: January 25, 2016, 03:18:59 pm »
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I recently rewatched "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly" and I can't decide if that movie or Memento is my absolute favorite film. Speaking of Memento, I am positively furious that a remake is already being created, but I am not surprised.
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ashersky

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #838 on: January 26, 2016, 03:06:32 pm »
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Turns out I walked through the middle of a John Wick 2 scene they are shooting here a few times yesterday and today.  Didn't see Keanu anywhere.
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Qvist

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #839 on: January 26, 2016, 04:39:54 pm »
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I just finished watching the 5 original Planet of the Apes movies.
The first one was great, I enjoyed it a lot.
But the second one I nearly stopped watching. The telepathic bomb-worshipping humans were just ridiculous. We were lauging so hard.
#3-#5 had also some flaws, but weren't as bad as #2.

Now to watch the Tim Burton one and the two new ones.

KingZog3

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #840 on: January 26, 2016, 05:42:26 pm »
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Turns out I walked through the middle of a John Wick 2 scene they are shooting here a few times yesterday and today.  Didn't see Keanu anywhere.

Maybe I'll see you in it when it comes out. It better r as good as the first one.
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ashersky

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #841 on: January 27, 2016, 03:03:20 am »
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Turns out I walked through the middle of a John Wick 2 scene they are shooting here a few times yesterday and today.  Didn't see Keanu anywhere.

Maybe I'll see you in it when it comes out. It better r as good as the first one.

Oddly enough, they had a fake NYC taxi here.  Hot dog stands, etc.  I don't know if they were trying to make it look like NYC, but if so, they failed miserably.  Maybe camera angles will help.

But why not just shoot in the States?  Or Canada?
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #842 on: January 27, 2016, 07:54:30 am »
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Turns out I walked through the middle of a John Wick 2 scene they are shooting here a few times yesterday and today.  Didn't see Keanu anywhere.

Maybe I'll see you in it when it comes out. It better r as good as the first one.

Oddly enough, they had a fake NYC taxi here.  Hot dog stands, etc.  I don't know if they were trying to make it look like NYC, but if so, they failed miserably.  Maybe camera angles will help.

But why not just shoot in the States?  Or Canada?

There are lots of reasons.  Could be that only part of the movie was set in NYC so moving production wasn't efficient.  Could have been various scheduling or other logistical issues.  Probably ultimately financial.  You also have to get through all kinds of red tape stuff to film in a city.

I know some cases of locations being affected by taxation.  Iowa has very averse laws for movie production because of taxes, so almost no movies (recently, last I know of is Field of Dreams) are made there.  Ironically there was a movie called Cedar Rapids (my home town), which was not even filmed in Iowa at all, but rather, I think Wisconsin (or Minnesota).  I believe this was the main reason.
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KingZog3

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #843 on: January 27, 2016, 10:22:22 am »
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I saw shooting for a scene in Vancouver for one of the Mission imposiible movies once. It was supposed to look like India. It didn't, but with editing, special effects and only being on the street for like 1 second, it was pretty convincing. So my guess is that NYC scene is either short, or full of close ups.
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enfynet

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #844 on: January 27, 2016, 10:59:57 am »
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From ground level, they can do a lot of things to make any city look like NYC. Look at downtown Cleveland in the Avengers movie. Both Stuttgart, Germany and New York City were filmed on the same street. The next block over was used for Washington DC in Winter Soldier.
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Jorbles

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #845 on: January 27, 2016, 11:11:27 am »
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I saw shooting for a scene in Vancouver for one of the Mission imposiible movies once. It was supposed to look like India. It didn't, but with editing, special effects and only being on the street for like 1 second, it was pretty convincing. So my guess is that NYC scene is either short, or full of close ups.

Vancouver, and I think Toronto as well, are pretty chameleon-esque for movie shoots. There's a lot you can do when you know the right neighbourhoods and alleys to make something look like another city. Plus the Canadian dollar sucks right now so American productions have a great incentive to come across the border. Pretty sure Deadpool is not set in Vancouver, but it was shot entirely here. Ditto X-Men 3, and like a zillion other movies.
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ashersky

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #846 on: January 27, 2016, 11:15:12 am »
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I saw shooting for a scene in Vancouver for one of the Mission imposiible movies once. It was supposed to look like India. It didn't, but with editing, special effects and only being on the street for like 1 second, it was pretty convincing. So my guess is that NYC scene is either short, or full of close ups.

Vancouver, and I think Toronto as well, are pretty chameleon-esque for movie shoots. There's a lot you can do when you know the right neighbourhoods and alleys to make something look like another city. Plus the Canadian dollar sucks right now so American productions have a great incentive to come across the border. Pretty sure Deadpool is not set in Vancouver, but it was shot entirely here. Ditto X-Men 3, and like a zillion other movies.

And basically all television shows.

I know they did some John Wick 2 shooting in NYC because it was on the Internet.  The shooting here was in front of the Modern Art Gallery, including coming down the front steps, which are going to be pretty specific to the location.  But then again, who knows?  I'll have to watch the movie I guess.
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Grujah

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #847 on: February 03, 2016, 12:46:07 pm »
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On The Hateful Eight; I thought the final scene where they hang Daisy was brilliant and had me laughing out loud in the theatre.

I saw it earlier this year, and it was me + a friend + his girlfriend. We both share the similar tastes in movies and comics, so we both liked it. She hated it tho, and also noticed that we were the only ones laughing out lound, especially during that last scene. :D
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #848 on: February 20, 2016, 07:21:35 pm »
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I recently rewatched "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly"

I just watched it for the first time and thought it was... . . . .  ???

dumb. very dumb. can you explain the appeal? I don't get why anyone would like it.

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #849 on: February 20, 2016, 07:35:13 pm »
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I recently rewatched "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly"

I just watched it for the first time and thought it was... . . . .  ???

dumb. very dumb. can you explain the appeal? I don't get why anyone would like it.

Uh... what?  It's amazing.  The use of music alone makes it one of my favorite movies.  It's a rare mix of drama with comic relief that not many movies can really pull off.

Also, it's maybe better to watch A Fistfull of Dollars and For a Few Dollars More first.  They're a kind of a trilogy.
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