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Author Topic: Movies: Any movie buffs?  (Read 79176 times)

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Awaclus

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1200 on: March 09, 2017, 03:07:50 pm »
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I guess my big question now is, why would Finnish art critics focus on "tulkita" rather than "tulkata"? From my perspective that makes art criticism almost entirely useless.

They don't really focus on either of those things. It's usually more about the quality than the meaning of the work. To the extent that they talk about the experience they had, it's always implied that they're talking about their own personal experience, and they might explain why they think they had that experience too. I never really noticed the difference between Finnish movie reviews and English language ones that I read online, but now that I actually directly compared a couple of Finnish reviews with one from The Guardian and another one from Roger Ebert (i.e. the top two Google search results), it really is kind of funny. The English language reviews focus solely on the meaning of the film and even explain a lot of things that were never explicitly stated in the film, whereas the Finnish ones quickly explain the very basic premise and only cover as much as what was explicit, and talk more about stuff like how well the original novel sold in Sweden, how the director is utilizing his inexperience in the horror genre to create a groundbreaking film, how talented the actors are, how good the cinematography was, etc.

I actually think that's significantly more useful, because that's what I need to know in order to decide whether or not it's a movie I want to spend my time on. The meaning is what I want to focus on after I've seen the movie, and I'd rather have a discussion with other fans than a review at that point.

Your belief has no bearing on my interpretation. Using your own logic, my interpretation is not only valid but correct. Thus, I am irrefutably right and you are wrong.

My belief has no bearing on your interpretation, but the fact that you don't really have the interpretation does.

AndrewisFTTW

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1201 on: March 09, 2017, 03:15:38 pm »
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Your belief has no bearing on my interpretation. Using your own logic, my interpretation is not only valid but correct. Thus, I am irrefutably right and you are wrong.

My belief has no bearing on your interpretation, but the fact that you don't really have the interpretation does.

You don't know that. And nowhere did you say whoever has an alternate interpretation needs to be subject to interrogation to determine whether their interpretation is legitimate in the eyes of Awaclus.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 03:18:40 pm by AndrewisFTTW »
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Awaclus

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1202 on: March 09, 2017, 03:21:12 pm »
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You don't know that. And even if I didn't actually interpret what you said in that way, I would still be right and you would still be wrong. By your logic of course.

I do know that with 90-93% certainty. I mean, it's pretty damn obvious. And by my "logic" (which is not logic, but a wholly different branch of philosophy), an interpretation is valid if and only if there's someone who really believes in it.

EDIT:

And nowhere did you say whoever has an alternate interpretation needs to be subject to interrogation to determine whether their interpretation is legitimate in the eyes of Awaclus.

To address your edited post, alternate interpretations don't need to be subject to interrogation to determine whether it is legitimate in my eyes. They simply need to exist, and existing hypothetically for the sake of an argument isn't enough because the fact that you're using it hypothetically for the sake of an argument inherently shows that you don't really believe in it.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 03:24:05 pm by Awaclus »
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AndrewisFTTW

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1203 on: March 09, 2017, 03:26:19 pm »
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You don't know that. And even if I didn't actually interpret what you said in that way, I would still be right and you would still be wrong. By your logic of course.

I do know that with 90-93% certainty. I mean, it's pretty damn obvious. And by my "logic" (which is not logic, but a wholly different branch of philosophy), an interpretation is valid if and only if there's someone who really believes in it.

No you don't, and that's beside the point. You legitimized a theoretical person interpreting Moby Dick as someone selling cotton candy on the moon and somehow you deem that acceptable and correct but not my interpretation of your comment. Probably because it places you in the wrong. You are not the ultimate authority on interpretations. You don't have the right to decide which is legitimate and which isn't. You either commit to what you posted earlier and admit that you're wrong based on my smartass comment, or just admit that what you posted is false.
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AndrewisFTTW

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1204 on: March 09, 2017, 03:28:08 pm »
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And nowhere did you say whoever has an alternate interpretation needs to be subject to interrogation to determine whether their interpretation is legitimate in the eyes of Awaclus.

To address your edited post, alternate interpretations don't need to be subject to interrogation to determine whether it is legitimate in my eyes. They simply need to exist, and existing hypothetically for the sake of an argument isn't enough because the fact that you're using it hypothetically for the sake of an argument inherently shows that you don't really believe in it.

Just because I pass something off as hypothetical doesn't mean it's not what I actually believe. And again, that's beside the point.
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Awaclus

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1205 on: March 09, 2017, 03:35:15 pm »
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No you don't, and that's beside the point. You legitimized a theoretical person interpreting Moby Dick as someone selling cotton candy on the moon and somehow you deem that acceptable and correct but not my interpretation of your comment. Probably because it places you in the wrong. You are not the ultimate authority on interpretations. You don't have the right to decide which is legitimate and which isn't. You either commit to what you posted earlier and admit that you're wrong based on my smartass comment, or just admit that what you posted is false.

I am being 100% consistent here. See:

If you say that it's a book about selling cotton candy on the moon, you are wrong because you don't really believe that yourself

AndrewisFTTW

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1206 on: March 09, 2017, 03:43:31 pm »
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Here's the full quote:

For example, Moby Dick probably has an infinite range of supportable interpretations, but if I said it's a book about selling cotton candy on the moon then I am objectively wrong.

Not really. If you say that it's a book about selling cotton candy on the moon, you are wrong because you don't really believe that yourself, not because it can't be a book about selling cotton candy on the moon. Perhaps someone has had a deeply emotional experience while selling cotton candy on the moon, and Moby Dick reminds him of his cotton candy selling adventure so much that he interprets the story in the light of his experiences I would say that it's a perfectly valid interpretation.

You don't know they don't really believe that and there's no way you can prove they don't. So you are saying this theoretical person's interpretation of Moby Dick as that of a story about selling cotton candy on moon is valid. Ok, cool. So how come my interpretation of your comment:

There's a difference between Moby Dick reminding someone about selling cotton candy on the moon and Moby Dick being about selling cotton candy on the moon.

But if he interprets it that way, then there's no difference.

I interpret what you just said to mean "AndrewisFTTW is correct and Awaclus is wrong". I guess that means I'm right. End of discussion.

is not valid? And again, don't say I don't really believe that to be true, because that is impossible for you to prove.
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Awaclus

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1207 on: March 09, 2017, 03:47:38 pm »
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is not valid? And again, don't say I don't really believe that to be true, because that is impossible for you to prove.

Whether or not I'm able to prove it is irrelevant. It's enough that you do, in fact, not believe it to be true.

AndrewisFTTW

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1208 on: March 09, 2017, 03:57:06 pm »
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is not valid? And again, don't say I don't really believe that to be true, because that is impossible for you to prove.

Whether or not I'm able to prove it is irrelevant. It's enough that you do, in fact, not believe it to be true.

It is absolutely relevant. If you can't prove I don't believe it to be true then stop insisting upon it.

You've been beating around the bush for a while now. Assuming I do believe it to be true, then my interpretation of your comment (that I am right and you are wrong) is valid and correct. Yes or no?
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Awaclus

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1209 on: March 09, 2017, 04:27:26 pm »
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Assuming I do believe it to be true, then my interpretation of your comment (that I am right and you are wrong) is valid and correct. Yes or no?

Yes. And that would mean either I sucked at wording my post or I chose a wrong target audience for it.

However, I fail to see how that's relevant as long as you don't believe it to be true.

AndrewisFTTW

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1210 on: March 09, 2017, 04:36:56 pm »
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Assuming I do believe it to be true, then my interpretation of your comment (that I am right and you are wrong) is valid and correct. Yes or no?

Yes. And that would mean either I sucked at wording my post or I chose a wrong target audience for it.

However, I fail to see how that's relevant as long as you don't believe it to be true.

I interpret this to mean "Plan 9 From Outer Space is the best movie ever made. Period. Forever."
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Awaclus

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1211 on: March 09, 2017, 04:37:30 pm »
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Assuming I do believe it to be true, then my interpretation of your comment (that I am right and you are wrong) is valid and correct. Yes or no?

Yes. And that would mean either I sucked at wording my post or I chose a wrong target audience for it.

However, I fail to see how that's relevant as long as you don't believe it to be true.

I interpret this to mean "Plan 9 From Outer Space is the best movie ever made. Period. Forever."

I don't believe you do.

tripwire

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1212 on: March 09, 2017, 05:54:12 pm »
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Anybody got further thoughts on Logan? Witherweaver, what'd you like about it? I can detail my critiques in more detail later if anybody's interested.
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pacovf

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1213 on: March 09, 2017, 07:11:16 pm »
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Wait some time? People try to avoid spoilers in this thread.
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pingpongsam

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1214 on: March 09, 2017, 08:37:55 pm »
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I suffer from a slightly damaged fusiform gyrus, which basically means I easily confuse faces.

Take the movie Heat. I was confused as hell until halfway through I realized Deniro and Pacino were two different people/characters. I had to start over and rewatch it.

I would classify my first take as an actual, inarguable, misreading.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1215 on: March 09, 2017, 08:50:43 pm »
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I suffer from a slightly damaged fusiform gyrus, which basically means I easily confuse faces.

Take the movie Heat. I was confused as hell until halfway through I realized Deniro and Pacino were two different people/characters. I had to start over and rewatch it.

I would classify my first take as an actual, inarguable, misreading.

No way; they're the same person.  That's the twist.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1216 on: March 09, 2017, 10:06:16 pm »
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Anybody got further thoughts on Logan? Witherweaver, what'd you like about it? I can detail my critiques in more detail later if anybody's interested.

Well, I feel like people should see it without knowing anything.  So I guess if you haven't seen it don't read.

So first, for me it was intense from start to end.  Like I was tensed and intrigued the entire time.  I particularly liked the juxtaposition between the high-energy, vivid moments (i.e., everything with Laura in action) and the low-energy, drab, deteriorating world around (and also including Logan and Professor X, who are literally dying in front of our eyes, and also Caliban, who is a very soft, subdued character).  And especially the moment when Wolverine takes the serum and just explodes with energy.  That scene actually got my heart rate to increase..

There was a lot of emotion in the film, and it was done well.  Most superhero movies have done an okay job at keeping the emotion genuine, but this was more like a real drama.  Logan is a man who has experienced and lives with so much (emotional) pain, and on one level I guess the deterioration of his healing factor is a physical embodiment of all that he has done catching up with him.

Also, the girl that played Laura was really incredible.  The other performances were also very good.
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Kuildeous

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1217 on: March 10, 2017, 08:49:01 am »
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I suffer from a slightly damaged fusiform gyrus, which basically means I easily confuse faces.
 

I tend to do this in movies too. Unless the filmmakers make an effort to differentiate between characters with interesting clothing or hair choices, it can take me some time to separate the actors.

For example, the actors in Inception that were not Leo or the lady pretty much were interchangeable for me at the beginning. I still don't know who it was in the alley in Rogue One, though a rewatching of that movie may resolve it for me.

But I suppose it helps me get lost when anonymity or confusion is intentional, such as in Dark City or Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead (though I can so easily pick out Roth and Oldman now that it's hard to believe I could ever get those two confused).
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pacovf

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1218 on: March 11, 2017, 05:14:42 pm »
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If you've liked any X-Men movie, you owe it to yourself to watch Logan. Stewart in particular was absolutely great.
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Jorbles

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1219 on: March 12, 2017, 01:13:08 pm »
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Baby Driver, a new Edgar Wright film, has two trailers out now. Premise is that Baby is the best getaway driver, but he needs to listen to music while doing his job. (meaning every car chase scene will be synced to music). I'd recommend this one (the international one) which seems more aimed at the director's fans as opposed to the other one which appears to be aimed at people who don't know the director.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1220 on: March 30, 2017, 01:33:36 pm »
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So the trailer for It (2017) came out (can find on imdb page). I'm pretty exited for it.  I liked the miniseries, but it was made for TV, and not of the highest production with effects and such.  Though it's dated feeling does help the creepiness factor, I think. 

They are breaking it up into two movies (kids and adults), so the first one is the story of the kids, which is updated to take place in the 80's (i.e., the corresponding past of present day).
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Kuildeous

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1221 on: March 30, 2017, 02:57:15 pm »
+1

They are breaking it up into two movies (kids and adults), so the first one is the story of the kids, which is updated to take place in the 80's (i.e., the corresponding past of present day).

I misunderstood what you said at first. I thought you were saying they were making a kid-friendly version of the movie as well, which was blowing my mind.

I liked how the book (and the miniseries) jumped back and forth between 1957 and 1984. It would feel pretty weird to see all of the kids' stories being told and then the adults'.

And part of that is the way the story was told. King did a pretty good job of revealing just what was necessary. He also essentially introduced the child and the adult at the same time, so you had a strong connection to the two of them. The biggest example of revealing as necessary was working in how the kids defeated Pennywise and keeping that fresh as the adults confronted Pennywise again. It would feel a little odd to me to show Pennywise being defeated and then talk about their adult lives.

But who knows how much of that is based on nostalgia? I liked the storytelling method because that's how I read it. I'm sure the story could be told in a linear fashion. I may still prefer the flashbacks, but I'll hope for the best with this method.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1222 on: March 30, 2017, 03:12:47 pm »
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The miniseries didn't really recreate the intertwining of timelines that were in the book, though.  The first half had the adults, but only introducing them to remember the events of their childhood.  The actual narrative was separated into kids (50's) and adults (80's). 

Unless I'm misremembering.  But I'm pretty sure Part 1 of the 90's tv series ends with them defeating It in the sewers as kids ('This is battery acid, you slime!').  In the book, you experience the climax of both stories at the same time (the sewer part jumps between past and present, so it's like the battles are simultaneous).  I'm not sure you can really recreate that in a movie/series.
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Kuildeous

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1223 on: March 30, 2017, 03:28:49 pm »
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I think you're right that the miniseries didn't conflate the two battles like the book did. It still had flashback moments, even though the introduction of the adult selves were actually rather brief.

I liked how the miniseries showed Eddie's relationship with the pharmacist and then shortly after had adult Eddie visit the drugstore.

But you know, that's what writers are for. I'm sure the screenwriters will take King's material and massage it into a format that better fits the linear model.

Of course, one reason why some movie adaptations of books fail is because the writers couldn't put the book into the right format. I get the feeling that with so much riding on this, they're going to have some accomplished writers.
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Awaclus

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1224 on: April 29, 2017, 01:18:08 pm »
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I just saw Kimi No Na Wa (aka your name.) in the cinema and that was a really good film. I didn't think it would turn out to be as good as it did because the premise sounded super dubious, and I still think the premise was dubious but the film was so good that there was a point at which I stopped caring. Super powerful scenes and the animation was some of the best ever, topping even Ghibli I think.
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