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Author Topic: Improved Dominion : Gunpowder  (Read 1410 times)

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XerxesPraelor

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Improved Dominion : Gunpowder
« on: August 11, 2014, 12:57:28 pm »
+1

First, this isn't a joke. The other person made the core concepts of his cards clear, and some of them are good, so I came up with better versions. Criticism is welcome.

 Dominion Gunpowder

Gunpowder - cost 2
G
Trash this card.
----
The first time you gain Gunpowder per turn, +1 Buy

Bomb - cost $1G
Action
+3 Cards
Trash any number of cards from your hand. Trash this.

Soldier - $G
+2 Action
+$1
Each opponent with 4 or more cards in hand discards a card.
-------
When you discard this from play, each player may reveal an attack card from their hand. If anyone does, trash this and gain a Gunpowder.

Musketeer - $2G
+$2
Each other player reveals a card from his hand; you may have him trash it. If you don't, +1 Action and he discards it. He then draws a card.
----
When you discard this from play, each other player may reveal an attack card from their hands. If nobody does, put it on the bottom of your deck.

Grenadier - $4G
+$3
Each player discards his hand and draws one card per card he discarded. You may play an attack card from your hand.
-----
When you discard this from play, you may gain one silver per attack card in play.

Cannon - $3G
+2 Cards
You may make each other player with at least 4 cards discard one card at random from his hand. If you don't, each other player reveals and discards the top two cards of his deck and puts two Coppers on top of his deck if a victory card was revealed.

Reserves
$3
+1 Card
Look at the top card of your deck. You may discard it. If you do, set aside any number of actions from your hand. Play them in any order.

Factory
$4
+1 Action
Reveal the top card of your deck. Choose 1: gain a copy of it if it doesn't cost more than $6; +$1, +1 Buy, Discard it
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silverspawn

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Re: Improved Dominion : Gunpowder
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2014, 01:29:29 pm »
0

Quote
and some of them are good
actually no, none of his ideas, except maybe the concept of a one-shot potion, was any good. I really don't think it's a good idea to try and fix his expansion. it doesn't deserve it too.

let's look at your bomb

Quote
Bomb - cost $1G
Action
+3 Cards
Trash any number of cards from your hand. Trash this.
well it's a chapel variant. not sure how strong it is, I think it's pretty strong, probably one of the best trashers after chapel. But I can't see how it's interesting, you'll just buy one, maybe two, and hope to draw them with a lot of bad cards. chapel is interesting because it makes you get extremely thin decks very quickly, this card will just do the same.

the other cards are similar, they aren't horribly broken like the original gunpowder, but I don't feel like any of them deserves to exist.

another one

Quote
Factory
$4
+1 Action
Reveal the top card of your deck. Choose 1: gain a copy of it if it doesn't cost more than $6; +$1, +1 Buy, Discard it

This isn't the right way to go about making cards. you should start with a new idea, not just mix a bunch of effects together to something that sounds balanced. you can gain golds, that's very good. Or you can have a weird pawn variant. nothing of that is interesting.


Quote
Musketeer - $2G
+$2
Each other player reveals a card from his hand; you may have him trash it. If you don't, +1 Action and he discards it. He then draws a card.
----
When you discard this from play, each other player may reveal an attack card from their hands. If nobody does, put it on the bottom of your deck.

in 2player this is a non-terminal silver that helps your opponent. in 3player it's probably a festival without buy that helps your opponents.

yea. dunno. I'm all out meh about this.
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: Improved Dominion : Gunpowder
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2014, 06:01:11 pm »
0

Re: Musketeer

You might be missing that when they stack (which the card does automatically) they trash an opponent's good card. Do you think the benefit outweighs the downside when you get it to work?

Re: Factory
The idea is a combination of the already used "choices" and the not-used "get what you already have".


Re: Interestingness

Differences between Chapel and Bomb
->Bomb takes an extra turn to get
->Bomb works better with golden decks
->Bomb is more immediately useful after being junk-flooded
->Bomb doesn't hurt your buying power in the middle-late game
->Bomb is worse if you need to trash lots of cards

Aren't Harem and Gold much more similar? And gold is guaranteed to be included.

Differences between Reserves and Village
->Village is more reliable with card draw
->Reserves can facilitate high-action strategies
->Reserves works better after card draw (combo w/ Watchtower/Library)

Fewer differences, but still more than Walled Village/Workers' Village/Shanty Town vs Village

Grenadier is really different from all existing cards, as is Cannon.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Improved Dominion : Gunpowder
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2014, 08:09:53 pm »
0

Gunpowder -- Fine improvement.  It's interesting that you can open triple Gunpowder.

Bomb -- You'll play this on your third shuffle, so the earliest you'll get to play it is turn 5.  You'll probably have 3 purchases by then, not counting itself and the Gunpowder used to play it.  Those are decent odds for trashing 4+ starting cards.  It also trashes itself, so it seems pretty comparable to Chapel overall.  Seems fine to me.

Soldier -- Weak village that also attacks.  Two Soldiers make a Militia (with bonus actions).  The penalty is actually pretty neat.  I think it looks alright.

Musketeer -- Ehhh.  The usual result of this "attack" is that your opponent gets to sift the worst card from their hand.  In order to actually trash a good card, you either need to play LOTS of Musketeers or your opponent needs to have trashed down heavily.  If strong trashing is available, there's probably also a strong engine that will move faster than Musketeer.  Meanwhile, you'll have spent far too much time buying multiple Musketeers (and Gunpowders) in the first place.

Grenadier -- To be clear, this isn't really an attack card.  You could label it as such, but the effect is neutral on opponents.  They exchange one random hand for another random hand, which does nothing on average.  So really, this is a terminal Gold with potential for Silver gaining.  The Silver gain is confusing.  First, will you still label Grenadier as an attack card?  I assume you will, so it counts other Grenadiers.  How do multiple Grenadiers stack?  I suppose you now have to discard Grenadiers one at a time in order to count properly?  And I guess it can't count itself, because if it's being discarded from play then it is no longer in play.  It all seems very finnicky.  Not to mention, $4G is expensive and the G cost alone already makes it tough to stack.

Cannon -- Random discard is too swingy for my taste.  You'd also probably have to make it truly random and thus annoying in order to keep it fair.  That is, you'll need each other player to shuffle their hand face down and discard a card at random.  But then have they shuffled it enough so they don't know which card is which?  Maybe you could pick from their hand, but there is some potential for politics here, e.g. in a 3 player game, the losing player indicates what they want you to discard and you play along in order to help him.

Reserves -- Odd village variant.  Not sure what to think of it.

Factory -- I'm not really a fan of the "lots of unrelated effects" cards.Gunpowder -- Fine improvement.  It's interesting that you can open triple Gunpowder.

Bomb -- You'll play this on your third shuffle, so the earliest you'll get to play it is turn 5.  You'll probably have 3 purchases by then, not counting itself and the Gunpowder used to play it.  Those are decent odds for trashing 4+ starting cards.  It also trashes itself, so it seems pretty comparable to Chapel overall.  Seems fine to me.

Soldier -- Weak village that also attacks.  Two Soldiers make a Militia (with bonus actions).  The penalty is actually pretty neat.  I think it looks alright.

Musketeer -- Ehhh.  The usual result of this "attack" is that your opponent gets to sift the worst card from their hand.  In order to actually trash a good card, you either need to play LOTS of Musketeers or your opponent needs to have trashed down heavily.  If strong trashing is available, there's probably also a strong engine that will move faster than Musketeer.  Meanwhile, you'll have spent far too much time buying multiple Musketeers (and Gunpowders) in the first place.

Grenadier -- To be clear, this isn't really an attack card.  You could label it as such, but the effect is neutral on opponents.  They exchange one random hand for another random hand, which does nothing on average.  So really, this is a terminal Gold with potential for Silver gaining.  The Silver gain is confusing.  First, will you still label Grenadier as an attack card?  I assume you will, so it counts other Grenadiers.  How do multiple Grenadiers stack?  I suppose you now have to discard Grenadiers one at a time in order to count properly?  And I guess it can't count itself, because if it's being discarded from play then it is no longer in play.  It all seems very finnicky.  Not to mention, $4G is expensive and the G cost alone already makes it tough to stack.

Cannon -- Random discard is too swingy for my taste.  You'd also probably have to make it truly random and thus annoying in order to keep it fair.  That is, you'll need each other player to shuffle their hand face down and discard a card at random.  But then have they shuffled it enough so they don't know which card is which?  Maybe you could pick from their hand, but there is some potential for politics here, e.g. in a 3 player game, the losing player indicates what they want you to discard and you play along in order to help him.

Reserves -- Odd village variant.  Not sure what to think of it.

Factory -- I'm not really a fan of the "lots of unrelated effects" cards.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Improved Dominion : Gunpowder
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2014, 10:11:21 pm »
0

Quote
Gunpowder: Treasure, $2
G
When you play this, trash it.

The first time you gain Gunpowder in a turn, +1 Buy.


Quote
Bomb: Action, $1G
Action
+3 Cards
Trash this and any number of cards from your hand.

Seems worth trying as-is.


Quote
Soldier: Action, G
+2 Actions. +$1. Each other player with 4 or more cards in hand discards a card.

When you discard this from play, each player may reveal an Attack card from his hand. If anyone does, trash this and gain a Gunpowder.

Is there any reason the bottom part can't happen when you play the card? Even if they gain the Gunpowder right away and manage to draw it that turn, they still have to use a buy in order to get it back.


Quote
Musketeer: Action–Attack, $2G
+$2
Each other player reveals a card from his hand; you may have him trash it. If you don't, +1 Action and he discards it. He then draws a card.

When you discard this from play, each other player may reveal an Attack card from his hand. If nobody does, put this on the bottom of your deck.

The top effect looks complex, disjointed, and weak. Also it can give you a different number of +Actions depending on how many players there are. Putting a card on the bottom of your deck is really unexciting. I'd try putting it on top of your deck first.


Quote
Grenadier: Action–Attack, $4G
+$3
Each player discards his hand and draws one card per card he discarded. You may play an attack card from your hand.

When you discard this from play, you may gain one silver per attack card in play.

The top part is an attack only if the target already has a reduced handsize from e.g. Militia. Otherwise it's just annoying cycling. The bottom seems cool, but players have to think about discard order. This is an Attack, right? None of your cards had types listed. I had to add those.


Quote
Cannon: Action–Attack, $3G
+2 Cards
You may make each other player with at least 4 cards discard one card at random from his hand. If you don't, each other player reveals and discards the top two cards of his deck and puts 2 Coppers on top of his deck if a victory card was revealed.

The attack is too harsh. 3 random cards is an awful hand. Also, 2 Coppers from where?


Quote
Reserves: Action, $3
+1 Card. Look at the top card of your deck. You may discard it. If you do, set aside any number of actions from your hand. Play them in any order.

Why is the playing Actions contingent upon discarding a random card? It makes no sense.


Quote
Factory: Action, $4
+1 Action. Reveal the top card of your deck. Choose one: if it costs $6 or less, gain a copy of it; or +$1, +1 Buy, and discard it.

Not too interesting, but maybe fine?
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