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market squire

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Queue pile
« on: August 09, 2014, 02:01:55 pm »
+6

Hello!
I've noticed some recent cards that let you set aside cards until your next shuffle.
This inspired me to make a new general concept for Dominion, a "queue pile" (better name suggestions?). The queue pile is a pile that every player may have next to his discard pile. When the player shuffles, all cards on the queue pile are discarded as a new discard pile. This means a card on the queue pile will come up one shuffle later. Cards on that pile are considered as part of the player's cards (important for the Endgame scoring), but not part of the discard pile (i.e. Counting House, Hermit, Philosopher's Stone can't access the queue pile).

Some card ideas (EDIT: Now sorted according to interestingness):

Grand Cellar (Action) $5
+1 Card
+1 Action
Put any number of cards on your queue pile.
Per card that you put on it: +1 Card.


Provost (Action) $3
+$2
Look through your discard pile and put up to 2 cards from it or your hand on your queue pile.


Mountain Village (Action) $4
+1 Card
+2 Actions
In this Clean-up phase, when you discard Treasure cards from play, put them on your queue pile.


Custodian (Action) $2
+1 Action
Look at the top card of your deck. Trash it or put it on your queue pile.


Donjon (Action) $5
+4 Cards
Put a card from your hand on your queue pile.
______________________
When you gain this, put it on your queue pile.


Prediction (Action-Attack) $4
+$2
Each other player reveals the top two cards of his deck.
He discards any Treasures, puts Actions on the queue pile and puts the rest back in an order he chooses.


Clerical Seal (Treasure) $5
Worth $2
+1 Buy
_____________________
While this is in play, when you gain a card, put it on your queue pile.


River Island (Victory-Reaction) $3
Worth 2 VP
_____________________
When you discard this other than from your queue pile, you may reveal it. If you do, put it on your queue pile.


Elite Workshop (Action) $5
Gain a card costing up to $5 and put it on your queue pile.


Butler (Action-Reaction) $3
Put a card from your hand on your queue pile. Gain a card costing less than it.
______________________
When you discard a card other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal this from your hand. Put the card you discarded on your queue pile.


Forest (Action) $5
+$4
+1 buy
_______________________
When you discard this from play, put it on your queue pile.


Dark Room (Action) $5
+2 Cards
You may choose an Action from your hand. Play it twice.
When you discard that card, put it on your queue pile.


Ruby (Treasure-Reaction) $4
When you play this, count the cards in your queue pile.
Worth $1 per card in your queue pile.
_____________________
When you gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. Put the new card on your queue pile.


Trading Haven (Action-Reaction) $2
+1 Card
+1 Action
You may put a card from your hand on top of your deck.
_______________________
When you put a card on top of your deck, you may reveal this from your hand.
If you do, put this and the other card on your queue pile and gain a Gold.






Old Versions:

Dark Room v1 (Action) $5
You may choose an Action from your hand. Play it three times.
When you discard that card, put it on your queue pile.

Elite Workshop v1 (Action) $3
Gain a card costing up to $5 and put it on your queue pile.
_______________________
When you discard this from play, put it on your queue pile.

Elite Workshop v2 (Action) $6
Gain a card costing up to $5 and put it on your queue pile.

Elite Workshop v3 (Action) $5
Gain a card costing up to $5.
If it's a Victory card, put it on top of your deck.
Otherwise, put it on your queue pile.

Donjon v1 (Action-Reaction) $3
+3 Cards
Put a card from your hand on your queue pile.
______________________
When you gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. Put the new card on your queue pile.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2014, 10:54:44 am by market squire »
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soulnet

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Re: Queue pile
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2014, 02:16:30 pm »
0

I think you are overestimating how bad it is to put cards on the queue pile. Draw your deck engines don't care too much about the queue pile. KC for $5, even with the penalty, seems crazy powerful and KC usually makes draw-deck engines likely to happen. Elite Workshop gaining Duchies is extremely powerful for $3. Even plain "Gain a Duchy" for $3 is decent, and while this is not strictly better due to the under-the-line, it still looks really powerful.

I don't think the mechanic is interesting enough to be combined with anything, but Grand Cellar or something like that is probably the way to use, because it expresses exactly what the queue is meant to do. Maybe a deck-mocking-Attack too, but it could get really swingy if it moves Actions from deck to queue pile. Not swingier than Swindler, though.

Finally, if you really want this mechanic to be part of a set or something like that, I would consider "move your queue pile to your discard pile" or something Chancellor-y with the queue pile. Also, new piles are usually mats in Dominion tradition (Like Island's or Native Village's).
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silverspawn

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Re: Queue pile
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2014, 04:02:59 pm »
0

I don't think you need a mat, but aside from that soulnet is making good points. Basically, I don't think this is worth doing more than once or maybe twice, and I don't think it's worth inventing a term for it. I like the terminal silver though. Probably most like this:

Quote
+2$
Look through your discard pile. Put up to two cards from your hand or discard pile aside. Discard them immediately after the next time you shuffle your deck.

You could also simplify it like this:

Quote
+2$
Look through your discard pile. Put two cards from it aside. Discard them immediately after the next time you shuffle your deck.

market squire

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Re: Queue pile
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2014, 03:08:38 am »
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I think you are overestimating how bad it is to put cards on the queue pile. Draw your deck engines don't care too much about the queue pile. KC for $5, even with the penalty, seems crazy powerful and KC usually makes draw-deck engines likely to happen. Elite Workshop gaining Duchies is extremely powerful for $3. Even plain "Gain a Duchy" for $3 is decent, and while this is not strictly better due to the under-the-line, it still looks really powerful.
Yeah, it's only an idea, so I have no idea how strong/ bad it is.
But I must admit that I really liked the idea to take some cards out of the next shuffle and I think that it can be used in many other ways, my card ideas are rather proposals for directions that the concept may go to.
KC for $5 is just the idea of "play a card, do something really special with it, but it skips the next shuffle". Might be some other throne-like effect.
Elite Workshop is the idea of "you can use this only every second shuffle". I really have no idea of the power level of such effects. Again, could be something way different.
Finally, if you really want this mechanic to be part of a set or something like that, I would consider "move your queue pile to your discard pile" or something Chancellor-y with the queue pile.
That effect is problematic because cards on the queue pile can be either a benefit or a penalty. Another problem here is as always, that the card has to be useful also without other "queue" cards in the kingdom.
There might be an alternative like "if there are no cards in your queue pile, +2 cards", or just Chancellor. Or there could be another effect on the same card that moves (good) cards to the queue pile.
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mail-mi

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Re: Queue pile
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2014, 02:42:59 pm »
0

I had an idea for the whole "junk misses a shuffle" thing:

Pixie
Action $6
You may immediately put your deck in your discard pile
+2 cards
+1 action
--
While this is in play, when you would shuffle your discard pile into a new deck, you may look through your discard pile and remove up to 5 cards from it and set them aside. When you are done shuffling, immediately discard those cards.

There's probably better wording for that.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 03:18:19 pm by mail-mi »
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Awaclus

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Re: Queue pile
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2014, 02:46:11 pm »
+1

I had an idea for the whole "junk misses a shuffle" thing:

Pixie
Action $6
You may immediately discard your deck.
+2 cards
+1 action
--
While this is in play, when you would shuffle your discard pile into a new deck, you may look through your discard pile and remove up to 5 cards from it and set them aside. When you are done shuffling, immediately discard those cards.

There's probably better wording for that.
Wouldn't this be incredibly slow to play IRL?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Queue pile
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2014, 02:58:23 pm »
0

I had an idea for the whole "junk misses a shuffle" thing:

Pixie
Action $6
You may immediately discard your deck.
+2 cards
+1 action
--
While this is in play, when you would shuffle your discard pile into a new deck, you may look through your discard pile and remove up to 5 cards from it and set them aside. When you are done shuffling, immediately discard those cards.

There's probably better wording for that.
Wouldn't this be incredibly slow to play IRL?

There's a physical implementation of Goko now?
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Re: Queue pile
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2014, 02:59:16 pm »
0

I had an idea for the whole "junk misses a shuffle" thing:

Pixie
Action $6
You may immediately discard your deck.
+2 cards
+1 action
--
While this is in play, when you would shuffle your discard pile into a new deck, you may look through your discard pile and remove up to 5 cards from it and set them aside. When you are done shuffling, immediately discard those cards.

There's probably better wording for that.

I think that even without the below-the-line part, this could be a $6 card.
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Re: Queue pile
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2014, 03:02:44 pm »
0

Shouldn't it say, "You may put your deck into your discard pile?", like Chancellor/Scavenger, so as to avoid triggering Tunnel? Or is that a feature rather than a bug?

Also, I don't think 'immediately' has any meaning in Dominion.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 03:08:33 pm by Marcory »
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Re: Queue pile
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2014, 03:06:49 pm »
0

Quote
Shouldn't it say, "[You may] put your deck into your discard pile?", like Chancellor/Scavenger, so as to avoid triggering Tunnel? Or is that a feature rather than a bug?

yea it should, and also some other stuff. but cantrip chancellor isn't great anyway, like awaclus and LF said.

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Re: Queue pile
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2014, 03:18:30 pm »
0

Quote
Shouldn't it say, "[You may] put your deck into your discard pile?", like Chancellor/Scavenger, so as to avoid triggering Tunnel? Or is that a feature rather than a bug?

yea it should, and also some other stuff. but cantrip chancellor isn't great anyway, like awaclus and LF said.
fixed that.
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market squire

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Re: Queue pile
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2014, 09:43:38 am »
0

A few more queue ideas:

Mountain Village (Action) $4
+1 Card
+2 Actions
In this Clean-up phase, when you discard Treasure cards from play, put them on your queue pile.

Forest (Action) $5
+$4
+1 buy
_______________________
When you discard this from play, put it on your queue pile.

Trading Haven (Action-Reaction) $2
+1 Card
+1 Action
You may put a card from your hand on top of your deck.
_______________________
When you put a card on top of your deck, you may reveal this from your hand.
If you do, put this and the other card on your queue pile and gain a Gold, putting it into your hand.

Custodian (Action) $2
+1 Action
Look at the top card of your deck. Trash it or put it on your queue pile.
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Re: Queue pile
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2014, 05:57:33 pm »
0

Dark Room is waaaay too powerful. As soulnet said, draw-your-deck engines don't really care about setting aside cards until after the shuffle. In these types of engines, and in situations with Scavanger, Chancellor, and quick cycling, this is a KC for $5.

Donjon is also too powerful. Essentially +3 cards, temporarily trash a card from hand. Masquerade is +2 cards and is already really strong. This killer in BM, and you can still use it as draw in an engine.

Elite Workshop is also too good in engines.
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market squire

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Re: Queue pile
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2014, 07:33:02 am »
0

Now I made v2 for Dark Room an Elite Workshop (also changed the OP). Maybe a bit less interesting:

Elite Workshop v2 (Action) $6
Gain a card costing up to $5 and put it on your queue pile.


Dark Room v2 (Action) $5
+2 Cards
You may choose an Action from your hand. Play it twice.
When you discard that card, put it on your queue pile.


Donjon is also too powerful. Essentially +3 cards, temporarily trash a card from hand. Masquerade is +2 cards and is already really strong. This killer in BM, and you can still use it as draw in an engine.
Maybe it's strong, but I don't think it's broken. Yeah, putting a card on queue is "temporarily trash a card from hand", but it's only for one shuffle, not enduring. Also Masquerade's trashing is not mandatory.
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Re: Queue pile
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2014, 07:42:46 am »
0

Quote
Gain a card costing up to $5 and put it on your queue pile.
Altar...

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Re: Queue pile
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2014, 08:30:11 pm »
+1

Donjon is also too powerful. Essentially +3 cards, temporarily trash a card from hand. Masquerade is +2 cards and is already really strong. This killer in BM, and you can still use it as draw in an engine.
Maybe it's strong, but I don't think it's broken. Yeah, putting a card on queue is "temporarily trash a card from hand", but it's only for one shuffle, not enduring. Also Masquerade's trashing is not mandatory.
mmm. The thing is, it draws three cards. And in BM, nine times out of ten the almost-trashing is good. So it's like a better smithy for three. I mean, the temporary trashing will be good unless you draw like...all silvers and actions and golds. But how rare is that.
At least make it cost $4. It's a cool card, but way underpriced or over powerful. Maybe make it cost two and reduce it to +2 cards.
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Re: Queue pile
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2014, 08:47:28 pm »
0

Donjon is also too powerful. Essentially +3 cards, temporarily trash a card from hand. Masquerade is +2 cards and is already really strong. This killer in BM, and you can still use it as draw in an engine.
Maybe it's strong, but I don't think it's broken. Yeah, putting a card on queue is "temporarily trash a card from hand", but it's only for one shuffle, not enduring. Also Masquerade's trashing is not mandatory.
mmm. The thing is, it draws three cards. And in BM, nine times out of ten the almost-trashing is good. So it's like a better smithy for three. I mean, the temporary trashing will be good unless you draw like...all silvers and actions and golds. But how rare is that.
At least make it cost $4. It's a cool card, but way underpriced or over powerful. Maybe make it cost two and reduce it to +2 cards.

it can't be overstated how small the difference between 3$ and 4$ is. making it 4$ won't solve anything, especially not with a card like this. you never open double smithy.

market squire

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Re: Queue pile
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2014, 04:29:23 pm »
0

Quote
Gain a card costing up to $5 and put it on your queue pile.
Altar...
This was my orientation for the card. I see, it's too close.

What about:

Elite Workshop v3 (Action) $5
Gain a card costing up to $5.
If it's a Victory card, put it on top of your deck.
Otherwise, put it on your queue pile.

Donjon is also too powerful. Essentially +3 cards, temporarily trash a card from hand. Masquerade is +2 cards and is already really strong. This killer in BM, and you can still use it as draw in an engine.
Maybe it's strong, but I don't think it's broken. Yeah, putting a card on queue is "temporarily trash a card from hand", but it's only for one shuffle, not enduring. Also Masquerade's trashing is not mandatory.
mmm. The thing is, it draws three cards. And in BM, nine times out of ten the almost-trashing is good. So it's like a better smithy for three. I mean, the temporary trashing will be good unless you draw like...all silvers and actions and golds. But how rare is that.
At least make it cost $4. It's a cool card, but way underpriced or over powerful. Maybe make it cost two and reduce it to +2 cards.
I see the point. It almost reaches the power level of Embassy (if you count the queue thing as "+1 Card/ Discard one", it only happens in the next shuffle, so ~ "+4 Cards, Discard 2").
So Donjon could be a nice strong card at $5 or a cute cheap one at $2.
I think I prefer the strong version, dropping the Reaction. It should be different enough from Embassy, as it is worse with terminal collision.
Or is this still too good?

Donjon v2 (Action) $5
+4 Cards
Put a card from your hand on your queue pile.
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Awaclus

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Re: Queue pile
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2014, 04:39:54 pm »
+1

Donjon v2 (Action) $5
+4 Cards
Put a card from your hand on your queue pile.
Still too good, because it's basically strictly better than Hunting Grounds' on-play and it's also cheaper. I think you might want to make it put itself on the queue pile on-gain, then it could be strong, but possibly not too strong.
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market squire

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Re: Queue pile
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2014, 04:56:38 pm »
0

Donjon v2 (Action) $5
+4 Cards
Put a card from your hand on your queue pile.
Still too good, because it's basically strictly better than Hunting Grounds' on-play and it's also cheaper. I think you might want to make it put itself on the queue pile on-gain, then it could be strong, but possibly not too strong.
I don't know if this works, but your suggestion sounds cute. I'll chinge it like that in the OP.
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Re: Queue pile
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2014, 07:06:11 pm »
0

Quote
This was my orientation for the card. I see, it's too close.
actually, what I meant was that it's almost always worse. trashing a card is positive, putting it on your queue pile is negative. altar is better.

Awaclus

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Re: Queue pile
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2014, 07:12:02 pm »
0

Donjon (Action-Reaction) $3
+4 Cards
Put a card from your hand on your queue pile.
______________________
When you gain this, put it on your queue pile.
I meant that that at $5 might be fine. Also, it doesn't have to be a Reaction.
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market squire

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Re: Queue pile
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2014, 06:13:08 am »
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Quote
This was my orientation for the card. I see, it's too close.
actually, what I meant was that it's almost always worse. trashing a card is positive, putting it on your queue pile is negative. altar is better.
I thought sometimes trashing can be negative and sometimes queue gain is positive (Duchy). But in most cases, you should be right.
What about my $5 version? Or might v2 also work at $5?
Donjon (Action-Reaction) $3
+4 Cards
Put a card from your hand on your queue pile.
______________________
When you gain this, put it on your queue pile.
I meant that that at $5 might be fine. Also, it doesn't have to be a Reaction.
This was just an editing mistake, I forgot to change the top line.


Any thoughts on the new ideas?
Mountain Village (Action) $4
+1 Card
+2 Actions
In this Clean-up phase, when you discard Treasure cards from play, put them on your queue pile.

Forest (Action) $5
+$4
+1 buy
_______________________
When you discard this from play, put it on your queue pile.

Trading Haven (Action-Reaction) $2
+1 Card
+1 Action
You may put a card from your hand on top of your deck.
_______________________
When you put a card on top of your deck, you may reveal this from your hand.
If you do, put this and the other card on your queue pile and gain a Gold, putting it into your hand.

Custodian (Action) $2
+1 Action
Look at the top card of your deck. Trash it or put it on your queue pile.
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Re: Queue pile
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2014, 04:29:11 pm »
0

Donjon is also too powerful. Essentially +3 cards, temporarily trash a card from hand. Masquerade is +2 cards and is already really strong. This killer in BM, and you can still use it as draw in an engine.
Maybe it's strong, but I don't think it's broken. Yeah, putting a card on queue is "temporarily trash a card from hand", but it's only for one shuffle, not enduring. Also Masquerade's trashing is not mandatory.
mmm. The thing is, it draws three cards. And in BM, nine times out of ten the almost-trashing is good. So it's like a better smithy for three. I mean, the temporary trashing will be good unless you draw like...all silvers and actions and golds. But how rare is that.

It can also be worse than Smithy if you don't draw any green and need all your hand's Copper this turn, which can easily happen in BM. Still, it would be extremely strong even at $4.

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Re: Queue pile
« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2014, 04:31:46 pm »
0

Quote
I thought sometimes trashing can be negative and sometimes queue gain is positive (Duchy). But in most cases, you should be right.
What about my $5 version? Or might v2 also work at $5?
5 and 6 is a legit difference. either might be fine, it's hard to say.
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