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[Piemaster]

Ambassador can be a liability on Possession boards

[blueblimp]

On a board that's good for Possession (usually meaning multi-Possession turns are possible, although maybe Governor/Possession counts too), you often want that Ambassador to set up your Possession engine. If you skip it and your opponent gets it, you may not be able to exploit your opponent's Ambassador at all.

[WanderingWinder]

Also, if you go double amb, you can FORCE your opponent to take an ambassador at some point.

[Piemaster]

Yeah, I never said it is always bad on Possession boards, just that it can be

[Jfrisch]

Sure, just like there are situations where border village isn't worthwhile with torturer. The thing is if Possession is on the board, ambassador is LESS likely to be mediocre than in other circumstances. The fact that ambassadoring VP gives good comeback chances makes how slow ambassador is, it's primary detriment, much less relevant

[O]

Is it time for a What's the difference between a level 40 and a level 50 player thread?

[Fabian]

We already kinda did that months ago (40 vs 45 though, which was pretty close to the ceiling in those days, unlike now).

[Piemaster]

Sure, just like there are situations where border village isn't worthwhile with torturer. The thing is if Possession is on the board, ambassador is LESS likely to be mediocre than in other circumstances.

I totally agree.  But if you remember rightly (it was a while ago now), the original discussion was cards that are never bad and someone proposed Ambassador.  I'm not saying that it is anything less than an excellent card, even on many Possession boards.

[flies]

I thought I'd put this game up on here because I think it shows how a 40+ player can see the angles better than a 30+ player (me): http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120717-075738-9c890f38.html I'm pretty sure I could have pulled this one out if I had reacted better, but I didn't see ahead to how long the game would stretch out.  I was way ahead at turn 12, keeping the lead thru 22, but I couldn't end the game.  lespeutere won, and thief was what turned it around for him.  It's been said before here in this thread, but the really top players know when a normally crap card can be the key to victory.


cards in supply: Alchemist, Bank, City, Feast, Harem, Highway, Laboratory, Mint, Potion, Steward, and Thief
I went for a very straight-forward alchemist/lab/money strategy.  Lespeutere started out similarly, but trashed nearly all his money with steward and mint.  Then he bought two thieves.  I had 4 provinces and a duchy by the time his thieves eradicated my economy.  From there, he used mints to acquire 7 harems (robbing me of mine to end up with all of them), and then he had enough to beat me with 3 provinces to my 5.

I hope he won't mind if I post our chat log after the game:

10:57 flies: gg
10:57 lespeutere: gg
10:58 flies: interesting play there
10:58 flies: didn't see it comn
10:58 lespeutere: it was
10:58 flies:
10:58 lespeutere: I didn't know how to play this really
10:59 lespeutere: without +buy, alchemist is terrible, normally
10:59 flies: mm
10:59 flies: hadn't noticed that
10:59 flies: makes sense, since it takes a while to build the chain
10:59 lespeutere: yes
10:59 lespeutere: but then your small deck enabled my thiefs
11:00 lespeutere: although I got lucky, I guess
11:00 flies: luck plays a part in all games
11:00 lespeutere: + you put your alchemists back every turn
11:00 flies: yea
11:00 flies: i considered that
11:00 lespeutere: letting your treasures rest in your drawind pile
11:00 lespeutere: drawing
11:01 flies: i thought i'd be able to get the lead and hold it, but i didn't see how the harems would enable a long game
11:01 lespeutere: I feared you would be
11:01 lespeutere: but then there was a way to empty a 2nd pile AND gain VP
11:02 lespeutere: + you already had 4 prov clogging your deck

[eHalcyon]

If he had trashed all his starting money with Steward and Mint, couldn't you have picked up a Thief or two yourself and hit him just as hard?

[flies]

i think so; as I said, I failed to react properly.  my thinking was that I would just hit the provinces so he wouldn't be able to recover, but that clearly didn't work.  On turns 15 and 16 i bought a potion and a highway where thieves would surely have served me quite well.

[cayvie]

You know what?

For me, it was WanderingWinder's video channel.

[Eevee]

You know what?

For me, it was WanderingWinder's video channel.

Same here.

(And conversely, the difference between a level 40 and a level 30 player seems to be forum mafia.)


edit cause i can: I reaally wish WW still made more videos, might help me get excited about dominion again..

[cayvie]

(And conversely, the difference between a level 40 and a level 30 player seems to be forum mafia.)

Heh.

Likewise.

[flies]

necro thread, but still a very valuabe topic.

I just wanted to say that I've been hovering around level 37-40 for a while, and one thing that keeps tripping me up is endgame control.  When you get toward the end of the game (you must pay attention to whether this is happening!), take extra time in considering your actions and especially your buys/gains.  PPR is easy, but its parallels in 3-piling and cases where your opponent can double-province/double-colony, it's a lot trickier.  And TfB like remodel/salvager are additional wrinkles.  So be careful!