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Author Topic: Wartorn Province  (Read 9359 times)

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spiralstaircase

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Re: Wartorn Province
« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2014, 01:42:04 pm »
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Well, you could say that it works this way, but it's not how other effects in Dominion work. All effects that have the same timing are queued up simultaneously, then you choose which order to do them in. So if the only two Victory cards in your deck are two Wartorn Provinces, you'd end up trashing both of them. Trashing the card the effect is written on doesn't stop that effect from taking place if it's already been triggered.

Interesting.  So I guess if I want it to work the way that I thought it did, I need this wording:  At the end of the game, if this is in your deck, trash a victory card.  Would that work?  The first card's effect resolves, seeing that the first card is in the deck, and the player chooses to trash the second card; then the second card's effect resolves, seeing that the second card is not in the deck, and does nothing?
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: Wartorn Province
« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2014, 03:53:25 pm »
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Well, you could say that it works this way, but it's not how other effects in Dominion work. All effects that have the same timing are queued up simultaneously, then you choose which order to do them in. So if the only two Victory cards in your deck are two Wartorn Provinces, you'd end up trashing both of them. Trashing the card the effect is written on doesn't stop that effect from taking place if it's already been triggered.

Interesting.  So I guess if I want it to work the way that I thought it did, I need this wording:  At the end of the game, if this is in your deck, trash a victory card.  Would that work?  The first card's effect resolves, seeing that the first card is in the deck, and the player chooses to trash the second card; then the second card's effect resolves, seeing that the second card is not in the deck, and does nothing?

I don't think this would work. From my understanding, "if this is in your deck" would continue to be true and thus require you to trash more victory cards as long as this is in your deck. Or maybe it's not like this. Since there are no cards like this in Dominion, you had best, as Soulnet wrote, write a rules clarification note or a paragraph on how exactly end-of-game effects are resolved. By the way, I like Fragasnap's idea for this concept a lot:

I've played around with effects like this. I call them End cards (so creative, I know). At the end of games, after putting all their cards together and before counting their points, players separate all the End cards from their decks and then take turns resolving them one at a time. I hadn't playtested enough to get to handling adding and removing End cards from players' decks during this process.

I think you can do some very interesting stuff with this. So keep on thinking and share your ideas with us :)
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luser

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Re: Wartorn Province
« Reply #27 on: August 03, 2014, 07:00:32 pm »
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Alternatively you could make it on play effect like

+1 action

when you gain or play this you may trash this and another victory card. If you do gain two duchies.

Perhaps we could make duchy pile containing 16 duchies when this is in play so they do not run out?
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AJD

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Re: Wartorn Province
« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2014, 07:17:15 pm »
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Well, you could say that it works this way, but it's not how other effects in Dominion work. All effects that have the same timing are queued up simultaneously, then you choose which order to do them in. So if the only two Victory cards in your deck are two Wartorn Provinces, you'd end up trashing both of them. Trashing the card the effect is written on doesn't stop that effect from taking place if it's already been triggered.

Interesting.  So I guess if I want it to work the way that I thought it did, I need this wording:  At the end of the game, if this is in your deck, trash a victory card.  Would that work?  The first card's effect resolves, seeing that the first card is in the deck, and the player chooses to trash the second card; then the second card's effect resolves, seeing that the second card is not in the deck, and does nothing?

I don't think this would work. From my understanding, "if this is in your deck" would continue to be true and thus require you to trash more victory cards as long as this is in your deck.

Ah, but "at the end of the game" is an instantaneous point in time, not an extended period. :)

Quote
Or maybe it's not like this. Since there are no cards like this in Dominion, you had best, as Soulnet wrote, write a rules clarification note or a paragraph on how exactly end-of-game effects are resolved.

Indeed.

(It's worth pointing out that this is the opposite of Cemetery from the outtakes, which was "at the end of the game each other player trashes a Victory card.")
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faust

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Re: Wartorn Province
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2014, 05:04:31 am »
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Yeah as is, it sounds really strong. In no trashing games, you're getting a 5vp card for $5. And in engine type games you can just rebuy your estates near end game and you still get a 5vp card for $5. I think you need to limit how reliably you can actually get that value. Maybe if it trashes either two estates or one of any other victory card?

If it is too strong, I would suggest bumping it down to 5 VP before adding more complex clauses. Or maybe bumping the price up to $6. If the "counts as a Province" clause is removed, the card has the advantage of being super-simple.

I think a relatively simple fix for the "Estate problem" would be adding a clause "In games using this, always use Shelters instead of Estates".
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LastFootnote

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Re: Wartorn Province
« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2014, 04:25:11 pm »
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Well, you could say that it works this way, but it's not how other effects in Dominion work. All effects that have the same timing are queued up simultaneously, then you choose which order to do them in. So if the only two Victory cards in your deck are two Wartorn Provinces, you'd end up trashing both of them. Trashing the card the effect is written on doesn't stop that effect from taking place if it's already been triggered.

Interesting.  So I guess if I want it to work the way that I thought it did, I need this wording:  At the end of the game, if this is in your deck, trash a victory card.  Would that work?  The first card's effect resolves, seeing that the first card is in the deck, and the player chooses to trash the second card; then the second card's effect resolves, seeing that the second card is not in the deck, and does nothing?

While I think that technically works, it's confusing. I think it's fine the way it is. If you don't have other Victory cards to trash, you have to trash the Wartorn Provinces. I think it's better to tweak the power of the card (cost and/or VP) rather than put in some confusing wording to make it work exactly the way you originally envisioned.
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