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Author Topic: Avalon (Evil wins!)  (Read 18259 times)

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jotheonah

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Re: Avalon (Quest 1.1)
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2014, 08:51:11 am »

I don't think we should talk too much about who is and isn't Merlin. No need to do the Minions' job for them, mcmcsalot.
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"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

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Nevermind

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Re: Avalon (Quest 1.1)
« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2014, 09:07:13 am »

Not accepting this mission. I'm Merlin, Jim is a spy. So are Nevermind and mcmc. Guess we should probably accept Joth's proposal, since he's good and that gives me M2 hammer and I'm un-counterclaimed Merlin so we know I'm good.
You're lying. I'm no spy. I don't look at the top of your deck.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: Avalon (Quest 1.1)
« Reply #27 on: July 23, 2014, 10:02:38 am »

I don't think we should talk too much about who is and isn't Merlin. No need to do the Minions' job for them, mcmcsalot.

We should when someone claims to be Merlin obviously meaning they are a spy and can use it to figure out their spy partners.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

Voltaire

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Re: Avalon (Quest 1.1)
« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2014, 01:59:21 pm »

Need two more votes.
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Voltaire

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Re: Avalon (Quest 1.1)
« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2014, 04:52:22 pm »

One more.
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Tables

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Re: Avalon (Quest 1.1)
« Reply #30 on: July 23, 2014, 07:12:23 pm »

Not accepting this mission. I'm Merlin, Jim is a spy. So are Nevermind and mcmc. Guess we should probably accept Joth's proposal, since he's good and that gives me M2 hammer and I'm un-counterclaimed Merlin so we know I'm good.

Tables can't be Merlin, he wouldn't make that post I'm my Mafia experience typically lying scum puts one partner in a safe category(fake claimed cop ect) and will buss one so I assume one of Jimm and never mind are spy's with tables, since this claim doesn't help spy's if never mind is a
Spy I say Jim/tables and one not mentioned in tables group are spy's. Do not approve this mission

So, uh, wow, this is actually really good information. I feel like we're able to start getting good, serious discussion going right off of this.

A few thoughts:

1) You sound pretty damn confident in yourself for the grounds of one obvious RVS style post (I mean I even chose the people to accuse just so it'd make my position look convenient,. This seems like WIFOM to the extreme, getting incredibly defensive over one joke accusation

2) What makes you think that if I were Merlin I'd give the correct information? That's pretty much the dumbest thing Merlin can do, since the spies will probably just kill him. Yeah non-Merlins can just make guesses and occasionally be right, but it usually won't work out and even if they guess right, they'll likely double back or forget about it eventually (probably almost immediately, since making a claim and trying to stick to it is very risky). As Merlin, I might well (and have in the past although IIRC not in PBF) claim Merlin right off the bat, it's an insanity play mostly for fun, but can be used to air suspicions and makes it easier to hide as Merlin and disguise yourself as Merlin, which means better odds vs. the assassin always.

3) This isn't Mafia, it's Resistance. Your standard logic won't necessarily hold here. Spies often really don't want to put other spies on mission, and that means they can often end up at least somewhat attacking each other. But even then if I were a spy, on M1, there's not really much danger - I could happily buddy up with both my spy buddies, maybe even send one on a mission with me (or vice versa as I'm not proposing anything in M1...), and it wouldn't really matter, since almost always, M1 passes.

4) You're making some interesting leaps of logic in who my partners are based on this. Why must Jimmmmm be a spy and Nevermind not? Why not the other way around? How does this claim help any spies if one of Jimmmmm/Nevermind/you are one?

All in all you've raised my suspicions of you a lot. Most people barely react to posts like this, but you've gone for the full knee jerk reaction, and I want to know why.
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

Tables

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Re: Avalon (Quest 1.1)
« Reply #31 on: July 23, 2014, 07:23:46 pm »

Oh also, I'm going to be V/LA for a few days - probably back around Monday...ish.
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

mcmcsalot

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Re: Avalon (Quest 1.1)
« Reply #32 on: July 24, 2014, 10:48:31 am »

Just because it's not mafia does not mean the logic does not still apply.

It's almost identical to in a mafia game if you claimed to be a cop day 1 unprovoked. The chances of you actually being the cop are near 0% as it would be idiotic of you to do which means you cannot be the cop(or Merlin here) and just like in mafia lying as town is also idiotic which means I have to assume you are  a spy.

As for why Jimm is your partner going off the fact that you are a spy and have done something rather bold I have to assume you had a reason, if nevermind was a spy your claim has done nothing to help you whatsoever, so I have to assume Jimm is your partner

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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

jotheonah

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Re: Avalon (Quest 1.1)
« Reply #33 on: July 24, 2014, 10:53:38 am »

do we still not have the votes in on the first mission?
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chairs

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Re: Avalon (Quest 1.1)
« Reply #34 on: July 24, 2014, 11:00:33 am »

My fault for the delay, sorry.  My girlfriend found out she's pregnant on Tuesday, so my normal "read f.ds" time has been... disrupted.

mcmcsalot

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Re: Avalon (Quest 1.1)
« Reply #35 on: July 24, 2014, 11:04:06 am »

No we don't.


Another thing referring to tables I do not think your post was "obviously rvs" at all and the only reason rvs is forced to occur in mafia(it hurts games) is because there is nothing to get the game started. Avalon fixes this by giving us a way to get the game going immediately(in my experience the first proposal is more of a vetting tool) so again I have to assume your post has a purpose.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

jotheonah

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Re: Avalon (Quest 1.1)
« Reply #36 on: July 24, 2014, 12:00:12 pm »

My fault for the delay, sorry.  My girlfriend found out she's pregnant on Tuesday, so my normal "read f.ds" time has been... disrupted.

con...gratulations? or ... sorry to hear that? I actually don't have enough context to know if this is a good thing.
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chairs

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Re: Avalon (Quest 1.1)
« Reply #37 on: July 24, 2014, 12:32:01 pm »

My fault for the delay, sorry.  My girlfriend found out she's pregnant on Tuesday, so my normal "read f.ds" time has been... disrupted.

con...gratulations? or ... sorry to hear that? I actually don't have enough context to know if this is a good thing.

I'm happy, so congratulations I guess.  She's... coming around to the idea, still.

Voltaire

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Re: Avalon (Quest 1.1)
« Reply #38 on: July 24, 2014, 06:28:26 pm »

Quest 1.1
Leader: Jimmmmm
Team: Jimmmmm, jotheonah

Yes: jotheonah, Nevermind, Jimmmmm
No: chairs, luser, mcmc, Tables

Proposal fails!

jotheonah is up.
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chairs

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Re: Avalon (Quest 1.2)
« Reply #39 on: July 24, 2014, 06:49:24 pm »

...interesting.

Nevermind

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Re: Avalon (Quest 1.2)
« Reply #40 on: July 24, 2014, 06:55:19 pm »

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luser

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Re: Avalon (Quest 1.2)
« Reply #41 on: July 24, 2014, 07:11:59 pm »

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jotheonah

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Re: Avalon (Quest 1.2)
« Reply #42 on: July 25, 2014, 09:50:17 am »

I think I know my proposal but I'd like to hear this answer too.
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Nevermind

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Re: Avalon (Quest 1.2)
« Reply #43 on: July 25, 2014, 12:05:55 pm »

I think I know my proposal but I'd like to hear this answer too.

The f.ds community may never know.
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chairs

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Re: Avalon (Quest 1.2)
« Reply #44 on: July 25, 2014, 12:38:23 pm »

I think I know my proposal but I'd like to hear this answer too.

The f.ds community may never know.

We'll know at the end of the game when you turn up scummy mc scummerpants.

jotheonah

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Re: Avalon (Quest 1.2)
« Reply #45 on: July 25, 2014, 01:06:53 pm »

Ok, so I'm thinking of proposing me and Tables. Basically, I like to know where Tables stands on things. Right now I don't trust mcmc and I don't trust Nevermind. I'm not even sure I can pick Jimmmmm and it wouldn't make any sense to do so if I could. that leaves Tables, chairs, and luser. I'm getting a town read of Tables and a null read off the others, so that's my thinking there.

All that said, tradition and strategy dictate that my proposal will be voted down anyway, and that no matter who we put on this mission it will pass because spies are never dumb enough to fail the two-person mission.
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luser

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Re: Avalon (Quest 1.2)
« Reply #46 on: July 25, 2014, 06:38:52 pm »

Ok, so I'm thinking of proposing me and Tables. Basically, I like to know where Tables stands on things. Right now I don't trust mcmc and I don't trust Nevermind. I'm not even sure I can pick Jimmmmm and it wouldn't make any sense to do so if I could. that leaves Tables, chairs, and luser. I'm getting a town read of Tables and a null read off the others, so that's my thinking there.

All that said, tradition and strategy dictate that my proposal will be voted down anyway, and that no matter who we put on this mission it will pass because spies are never dumb enough to fail the two-person mission.

If you follow assumption that you nevermind is spy then both you and jimmmm know that other one is spy. From interaction between mcmc and tables it is likely that one of these two is spy, which implies that I and chairs are clean.

That would be enough for automatic win modulo merlin guess as me+chairs, succeed, one of me+chairs+jimmm, me+chairs+joth succeeds and me+chairs+jimmm+joth succeeds because there is only one spy.

However as this is based on many fickle assumptions I would not bet on it now.
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luser

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Re: Avalon (Quest 1.2)
« Reply #47 on: July 27, 2014, 02:16:17 am »

Bump, any other comments or do should we proceed to move on?
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jotheonah

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Re: Avalon (Quest 1.2)
« Reply #48 on: July 27, 2014, 01:02:47 pm »

Propose: jtotheonah and Tables
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Voltaire

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Re: Avalon (Quest 1.2)
« Reply #49 on: July 27, 2014, 04:21:23 pm »

Quest 1.2 has been proposed!

Leader: jotheonah
Team: jotheonah, Tables

Votes are due via PM in 24 hours. I'll post results early if I get them early.
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