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[GendoIkari]

Just had an idea for a card...

Swamp
$2 - Victory
Worth 6 VP
---------------------
When you gain this, if you have taken more than 2 turns (including this turn), trash this.

Basically, it's a victory card that is worth more points than it should be, but with the huge drawback that you can only get it as part of your opening. Costs $2 so that anyone could open Swamp/Swamp if they wanted to. Named Swamp because it's a land that slows you down.

Not sure at all about the VP... 6 sounds possibly too strong, like opening double-Swamp will too often be good. 4 sounds almost definitely too weak. While 5 just seems like a weird VP value for a card to have, I dunno.

It might be too simple of a decision; Big Money = get Swamp, Engine = avoid Swamp. Weak Engine = 1 Swamp but not 2. Maybe. I mean, if you open double-Swamp, and your opponent doesn't, then you only need 3 Provinces to his 5 to tie.

There's technically a tracking issue in that the number of turns you have taken is not recorded information IRL. Obviously in practice I think people will know if it's still their opening, but as we've seen in the puzzles, openings can be completely crazy with Noble Brigand and other stuff.

[LastFootnote]

Just had an idea for a card...

Swamp
$2 - Victory
Worth 6 VP
---------------------
When you gain this, if you have taken more than 2 turns (including this turn), trash this.

Basically, it's a victory card that is worth more points than it should be, but with the huge drawback that you can only get it as part of your opening. Costs $2 so that anyone could open Swamp/Swamp if they wanted to. Named Swamp because it's a land that slows you down.

Not sure at all about the VP... 6 sounds possibly too strong, like opening double-Swamp will too often be good. 4 sounds almost definitely too weak. While 5 just seems like a weird VP value for a card to have, I dunno.

It might be too simple of a decision; Big Money = get Swamp, Engine = avoid Swamp. Weak Engine = 1 Swamp but not 2. Maybe. I mean, if you open double-Swamp, and your opponent doesn't, then you only need 3 Provinces to his 5 to tie.

5 VP doesn't seem like a weird value to me.

I don't think Big Money is necessarily going to mean you want Swamp. It still slows you down a lot. More like, if you have good sifting or if your opponents are playing Militias, you want Swamp.

For the bottom, how about: After each player's second turn, remove all remaining Swamps from the Supply. (This does not count as an empty Supply pile.)

[GendoIkari]

Just had an idea for a card...

Swamp
$2 - Victory
Worth 6 VP
---------------------
When you gain this, if you have taken more than 2 turns (including this turn), trash this.

Basically, it's a victory card that is worth more points than it should be, but with the huge drawback that you can only get it as part of your opening. Costs $2 so that anyone could open Swamp/Swamp if they wanted to. Named Swamp because it's a land that slows you down.

Not sure at all about the VP... 6 sounds possibly too strong, like opening double-Swamp will too often be good. 4 sounds almost definitely too weak. While 5 just seems like a weird VP value for a card to have, I dunno.

It might be too simple of a decision; Big Money = get Swamp, Engine = avoid Swamp. Weak Engine = 1 Swamp but not 2. Maybe. I mean, if you open double-Swamp, and your opponent doesn't, then you only need 3 Provinces to his 5 to tie.

5 VP doesn't seem like a weird value to me.

I don't think Big Money is necessarily going to mean you want Swamp. It still slows you down a lot. More like, if you have good sifting or if your opponents are playing Militias, you want Swamp.

For the bottom, how about: After each player's second turn, remove all remaining Swamps from the Supply. (This does not count as an empty Supply pile.)

I guess the thing with 5 is just that no official cards are worth 5; though there are a few that can be. With 4; at least that's the most common worth of Fairgrounds.

The reason I thought big money vs engine is that I think of big money as commonly ending in closer scores than engines. Big money often ends by less than 12 points. But maybe I'm wrong in thinking that the same isn't true for engines.

As for the bottom; your wording is probably easier to play, but I liked the idea that the cards could still have some interaction in rest of the game. In the endgame it's a third pile you can empty; and it also combos well with Goons and Merchant Guild.

Finally; I just realized that this card helps the second player a bit... the second player can always choose to go the same route as player 1, but player 1 needs to decide on Swamp before knowing what his opponent is thinking. (Obviously this is true of all cards, but with Swamp it probably matters more).

[Dsell]

Am I misreading cards or does this have a major combo with Watchtower and Royal Seal (and maybe others)? If things happen at the same time ("When you gain this") the player chooses the order of effects, and if you choose to put it atop your deck,  swamp loses track of itself, right? Or is the "when gain, trash this" not conditional on location? Something to consider, although LastFootnote's wording would completely eliminate this.

Also potentially weird interactions with Trader and Ironworks. I never quite mastered how those go down.

[GendoIkari]

Am I misreading cards or does this have a major combo with Watchtower and Royal Seal (and maybe others)? If things happen at the same time ("When you gain this") the player chooses the order of effects, and if you choose to put it atop your deck,  swamp loses track of itself, right? Or is the "when gain, trash this" not conditional on location? Something to consider, although LastFootnote's wording would completely eliminate this.

Also potentially weird interactions with Trader and Ironworks. I never quite mastered how those go down.

Good points. Perhaps LF's wording is best then.

[soulnet]

If you don't mind about logistics (like, use it only online, or with committed people) you could just adjust cost by number of turns. Like "This costs $1 per turn you have taken so far.". That opens more opportunity for the card to matter in the game.

[Dsell]

Am I misreading cards or does this have a major combo with Watchtower and Royal Seal (and maybe others)? If things happen at the same time ("When you gain this") the player chooses the order of effects, and if you choose to put it atop your deck,  swamp loses track of itself, right? Or is the "when gain, trash this" not conditional on location? Something to consider, although LastFootnote's wording would completely eliminate this.

Also potentially weird interactions with Trader and Ironworks. I never quite mastered how those go down.

Good points. Perhaps LF's wording is best then.

If that's the case, I'd love if it put out an 11th pile. That's getting to be a lot of lines on the card, but I think this card would be a lot cooler if it was a "bonus" 11th pile rather than a disappearing pile that leaves the kingdom with 9.

Edit: Soulnet's solution is also interesting, though a lot to track in a casual game.

[GendoIkari]

If you don't mind about logistics (like, use it only online, or with committed people) you could just adjust cost by number of turns. Like "This costs $1 per turn you have taken so far.". That opens more opportunity for the card to matter in the game.

Neat idea.

[silverspawn]

if you make it, LF's wording works best, but I wouldn't make it.

[KingZog3]

I open this 100% with Hovel no? Even with Big Money. Pretty good for a 5/2 opening.

[scott_pilgrim]

If you don't mind about logistics (like, use it only online, or with committed people) you could just adjust cost by number of turns. Like "This costs $1 per turn you have taken so far.". That opens more opportunity for the card to matter in the game.

This would be nuts with TfB, but maybe that's okay.

[ephesos]

If you don't mind about logistics (like, use it only online, or with committed people) you could just adjust cost by number of turns. Like "This costs $1 per turn you have taken so far.". That opens more opportunity for the card to matter in the game.

But what about Possession? Or Outpost? Will that mean if you Possess me, my Swamps now cost more than yours? Not an issue, just something odd and hard to keep track of.

Also, for logistics, you could have something like "At the end of your turn, place a turn counter on your Swamp mat. During your turn, this card costs $1 extra for each turn counter on your Swamp mat. When you gain this, place a turn counter on your Swamp mat."
There's an issue with having to follow instructions on a card in the Supply and not in your hand for the whole game. If there were too many, you'd have to constantly check all 10 kingdom cards during your turn. But I think just one might be okay.

Double/triple Swamp gets crazy with the cost very quickly. But otherwise, you might luck out and get a Swamp/Swamp/Swamp for $4 on turn 3. Another issue is drawing 5/2 vs 2/5 and not being able to open with Swamp, but that's also an issue with Nomad Camp, and there it just adds some diversity.

[ephesos]

You could increase the Swamp theme with something like:

At the end of each round(when all players have taken the same number of turns), place an Embargo token on the Swamp pile.

You can still open Swamp/Swamp, but you get one Curse penalty. You could also still buy it on turn 3, but you would get 2 Curses, slowing your deck down even more. Eventually, if everyone's buying them, or with Cursers in the game, you might empty the Curse supply(making the card really good) Combos with Watchtower/Trader ridiculously, and combos moderately with good trashing.

[Archetype]

If you don't mind about logistics (like, use it only online, or with committed people) you could just adjust cost by number of turns. Like "This costs $1 per turn you have taken so far.". That opens more opportunity for the card to matter in the game.

But what about Possession? Or Outpost? Will that mean if you Possess me, my Swamps now cost more than yours? Not an issue, just something odd and hard to keep track of.

Also, for logistics, you could have something like "At the end of your turn, place a turn counter on your Swamp mat. During your turn, this card costs $1 extra for each turn counter on your Swamp mat. When you gain this, place a turn counter on your Swamp mat."
There's an issue with having to follow instructions on a card in the Supply and not in your hand for the whole game. If there were too many, you'd have to constantly check all 10 kingdom cards during your turn. But I think just one might be okay.

Double/triple Swamp gets crazy with the cost very quickly. But otherwise, you might luck out and get a Swamp/Swamp/Swamp for $4 on turn 3. Another issue is drawing 5/2 vs 2/5 and not being able to open with Swamp, but that's also an issue with Nomad Camp, and there it just adds some diversity.

That's a lot of counters.

I like soulnet's idea, but I agree with scotty that there's the TfB problem.

[dondon151]

I feel like a 6 VP Swamp is much too weak to open with.

[GendoIkari]

if you make it, LF's wording works best, but I wouldn't make it.

I'm not one who plans on ever making or play testing any fan cards. This was just a random idea I had.

[Holger]

If you don't mind about logistics (like, use it only online, or with committed people) you could just adjust cost by number of turns. Like "This costs $1 per turn you have taken so far.". That opens more opportunity for the card to matter in the game.

That's a great idea, at least for an online-only card; IRL it might be too bothersome to do. To avoid TfB insanity, there could be a maximal price, maybe $8 or $10.

But what about Possession? Or Outpost? Will that mean if you Possess me, my Swamps now cost more than yours? Not an issue, just something odd and hard to keep track of.

It's easiest and fairest just to count regular turns, as the only existing instance of counting turns in the game (the tie-break rule) does.

I feel like a 6 VP Swamp is much too weak to open with.

Really? In slog-prone kingdoms or with a hovel in hand, I would almost always open 6 VP Swamp. It's also strong with sifters/discard attacks or if there's an easy way to rapidly three-pile, and it's probably good in most BM games. I'd rather reduce it to 5VP to make it more balanced...

[eHalcyon]

So I'm looking at threads I missed in the Fan Cards section.  I read this title and I think, "well, that's what a regular VP card does already."  The concept here is much more interesting than I'd expected.

[Jimmmmm]

What if this cost say $8*, reduced to $2 in your buy phase?

[stechafle]

One way to get around having to keep track of turns would be to only put out 2 Swamp cards per player. It would get more tempting as the game went on.