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[Gveoniz]

Action - $5
Choose one:
+3 actions or +2 coin

+1 card

This an idea that I cam up long ago, It is not particularly exciting, but I think it should be a fine card so I decide to post it any way.

While both choice is quite weak for a $5 card, I still priced it as $5. While it may not be apparent, but consecutive plays of it make it works as a peddler variant. It gives 4 coins for 3 plays with one leftover action (you can consider it a bonus of 1/3 coins for each play). Not to mention its great versatility. And sometimes you may want a village so much that you are willing to pay $5 for it.

I do understand that the card may not be one that is fun enough and can even be considered similar to bazaar, the reason I post it is just to see whether it is balanced, do you thinks it is?

[Awaclus]

I think it's balanced. Also, it would be more interesting if the +1 card was first.

[sudgy]

I think it's balanced. Also, it would be more interesting if the +1 card was first.

I think it's more interesting as-is.  "Will I draw my action?  Maybe I should get the actions just in case..."

[Awaclus]

I think it's balanced. Also, it would be more interesting if the +1 card was first.

I think it's more interesting as-is.  "Will I draw my action?  Maybe I should get the actions just in case..."

And then you don't draw the Action and it was as good as a pure cantrip. Not very interesting.

[GendoIkari]

I agree with Awaclus; unless it turns out to be too strong with the +1 card first; I would think that's better. Pawn's biggest annoyance is not knowing whether or not to take the +1 action when you are also taking +1 card. But that's a $2 card; for $5 I don't think you should have such a chance at making the wrong guess.

[silverspawn]

i don't like "+actions or +other stuff" very much. if you look at official cards, you'll see that very few cards do it, and the ones that do all have an excuse for it. the problem with your card (awaclus version) is that it's never bad, you can just buy it and it'll be fine. that's not interesting. your version can be bad, but only because you have to make an uninformed decision and might make the wrong one. that's not a good way to make a card harder to play with.

also, there is a powerlevel issue. to me your card seems too strong for 5$. in big money, +1 card > +1$, so you'll buy it over gold. in engines, +1 card, +3 actions >> ++3$, +1action, so you'll buy it over gold. you can use it as your village and just overbuy it, using it as your payload after you drew your whole deck. you're also underestimating how good +1 card, +3 actions alone is, it's like playing two basic villages. a lab is usually less good than playing 2 ironworks, or 2 caravans. peddler is arguably worth 4$, and market is far less good than playing 2 peddlers.

so yea. no love here.

[Awaclus]

i don't like "+actions or +other stuff" very much. if you look at official cards, you'll see that very few cards do it, and the ones that do all have an excuse for it. the problem with your card (awaclus version) is that it's never bad, you can just buy it and it'll be fine. that's not interesting. your version can be bad, but only because you have to make an uninformed decision and might make the wrong one. that's not a good way to make a card harder to play with.

also, there is a powerlevel issue. to me your card seems too strong for 5$. in big money, +1 card > +1$, so you'll buy it over gold. in engines, +1 card, +3 actions >> ++3$, +1action, so you'll buy it over gold. you can use it as your village and just overbuy it, using it as your payload after you drew your whole deck. you're also underestimating how good +1 card, +3 actions alone is, it's like playing two basic villages. a lab is usually less good than playing 2 ironworks, or 2 caravans. peddler is arguably worth 4$, and market is far less good than playing 2 peddlers.

so yea. no love here.

My version would be a strong (I guess?) support card, but not a strategy on its own. It is true that it never harms your deck, but you can't just buy them and expect to win the game with them alone. One of these cards is weaker than one Smithy in big money, and two of them in the same hand are still weaker than a single Smithy.

[silverspawn]

you can't win with them alone, but you can with with them + terminal draw, and it's even easier than a village/smithy engine, because you can just overbuy them without weakening the strength of your engine.

[LastFootnote]

i don't like "+actions or +other stuff" very much. if you look at official cards, you'll see that very few cards do it, and the ones that do all have an excuse for it. the problem with your card (awaclus version) is that it's never bad, you can just buy it and it'll be fine. that's not interesting. your version can be bad, but only because you have to make an uninformed decision and might make the wrong one. that's not a good way to make a card harder to play with.

While being a "safe" card is not particularly interesting, it's also not inherently bad. Dominion has tons of "safe" cards. Pretty much all cantrips are this way. Not every card has to have an element of risk to it.

[Awaclus]

you can't win with them alone, but you can with with them + terminal draw, and it's even easier than a village/smithy engine, because you can just overbuy them without weakening the strength of your engine.

You can overbuy Villages without weakening the strength of your engine, too. It just additionally functions as a weakish payload at the end if you have more actions than you need, just like Bazaar does automatically.

[silverspawn]

You can overbuy Villages without weakening the strength of your engine, too

no?

[SK]

You can overbuy Villages without weakening the strength of your engine, too

no?

Yes?
I mean, they don't make it inherently wose; a draw-your-deck village/smithy engine will draw its deck the same (if not easier and more consistently) with the extra villages.

[silverspawn]

You can overbuy Villages without weakening the strength of your engine, too

no?

Yes?
I mean, they don't make it inherently wose; a draw-your-deck village/smithy engine will draw its deck the same (if not easier and more consistently) with the extra villages.

... you weaken your engine because you don't invest in your payload. If both of us play build the same engine, but you buy too many villages, you will fall behind and ultimately lose (assuming even draws). if you buy too many cards of this thing though, it's completely fine. of course your engine doesn't get worse in the absolute sense, but in the relative one.

[SK]

You can overbuy Villages without weakening the strength of your engine, too

no?

Yes?
I mean, they don't make it inherently wose; a draw-your-deck village/smithy engine will draw its deck the same (if not easier and more consistently) with the extra villages.

... you weaken your engine because you don't invest in your payload. If both of us play build the same engine, but you buy too many villages, you will fall behind and ultimately lose (assuming even draws). if you buy too many cards of this thing though, it's completely fine. of course your engine doesn't get worse in the absolute sense, but in the relative one.

In a relative one, yes. Its a waste to overybuy villages, but I think the point Awaclus was trying to make was that it doesn't directly hurt you.
I once read an article here (I forget who wrote it) that I believe was entitled "Don't Play All Your Cards!" (correct me if I'm wrong). In this article, the author differentiated between plays that directly hurt you, and ones that indirectly hurt you. I believe overbuying villages would fall under the latter, yes?

[ConMan]

If your engine is at a point where there are not buys costing less than or equal to the village that you need (and assuming said village is functionally equivalent to the vanilla Village), then if you have enough coins to buy a village but not another card you may need, then buying it will increase the chance that you'll have all the actions you need, and as long as you don't draw it dead it will never be worse than a cantrip in hand and so doesn't take up "space" in your deck, although it does increase the probability that you do draw a dead card instead of, for example, a Treasure that you can play without needing those actions. And of course all the usual caveats over reshuffles and stuff. So absent other information, I'd say that in that situation buying the village is a marginal benefit, but with the potential to go the other way.

[SK]

Very true. Even still, when faced with the choice of buying Village or nothing, the benefits outweigh the disbenefits enough for me to grab the extra village.
Usually though, if you're drawing your deck with a village/smithy engine, silver would be preferable over village as long as you can consistently draw it and you wont be playing extra terminals enough so that the village would in fact have any use aside from its cantrip effect.

[Awaclus]

... you weaken your engine because you don't invest in your payload. If both of us play build the same engine, but you buy too many villages, you will fall behind and ultimately lose (assuming even draws). if you buy too many cards of this thing though, it's completely fine. of course your engine doesn't get worse in the absolute sense, but in the relative one.

But that's also true for this card. If you buy too many of these, your opponent buys a stronger payload and wins the game.

[silverspawn]

+2$, +1 card for 5$ is a pretty good payload though.

[Holger]

+2$, +1 card for 5$ is a pretty good payload though.

Only if you have enough excess actions. Otherwise you have to use every third copy for +3 Actions, so you only get +$1.3, + 1 card on average, which is only marginally better than Peddler. So hardly worth it for $5.

[Awaclus]

+2$, +1 card for 5$ is a pretty good payload though.

Yeah, it's almost as good as Mystic.

[silverspawn]

+2$, +1 card for 5$ is a pretty good payload though.

Only if you have enough excess actions. Otherwise you have to use every third copy for +3 Actions, so you only get +$1.3, + 1 card on average, which is only marginally better than Peddler. So hardly worth it for $5.

that's not bad. enough people buy markets even after they don't need the +buy anymore. it's not great for 5$, but it's alright, and being alright is very good considering that its original purpose is a village

[GendoIkari]

the problem with your card (awaclus version) is that it's never bad, you can just buy it and it'll be fine. that's not interesting.

I don't quite see the point here.... this is true of every cantrip card. The only reason they can be bad is because you could have bought something better.

also, there is a powerlevel issue. to me your card seems too strong for 5$. in big money, +1 card > +1$, so you'll buy it over gold. in engines

Same could be said of Smithy... of course you have less worry about terminal collision here.

[Gherald]

This card is basically a Bazaar variant.

You would rather play two Bazaars than two of these, but this card has some extra flexibility for when it's a payload.

It's okay, but not different enough from Bazaar for me to give it more than a shrug