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Author Topic: Tunnel  (Read 7914 times)

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Awaclus

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Re: Tunnel
« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2014, 04:49:12 pm »
+1

About Tunnel, it's extremely strong in the presence of Vault, Embassy, Rebuild or Storeroom and possibly useful in the presence of Cellar, Hamlet, Count, Cartographer, Inn, Oasis, Young Witch or Warehouse (the last two being the strongest of these). If there's a trash for benefit card (Remodel for example), it's very likely worth it even with those weaker enablers, but other than that, only if the kingdom is otherwise weak. Only go for Tunnel with an enabler that I didn't list here at all if you know exactly what you're doing and why.

This is pretty good except Warehouse should be at the top of the first list, Young Witch should be in the first list, and Rebuild should probably not be mentioned at all, maybe it's good enough to go in the honorable mentions. It's easy to activate Tunnels with Rebuild, but there's not a lot to do with all the Golds in a Rebuild deck. It's still very hard to buy Provinces and you usually just slow down your Rebuilding.
No, it's not very hard to buy Provinces. There's no need to Rebuild normally when you have a "+1 action, gain 4 Golds, chancellor effect" at $5.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 04:50:27 pm by Awaclus »
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amalloy

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Re: Tunnel
« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2014, 04:54:12 pm »
+1

About Tunnel, it's extremely strong in the presence of Vault, Embassy, Rebuild or Storeroom and possibly useful in the presence of Cellar, Hamlet, Count, Cartographer, Inn, Oasis, Young Witch or Warehouse (the last two being the strongest of these). If there's a trash for benefit card (Remodel for example), it's very likely worth it even with those weaker enablers, but other than that, only if the kingdom is otherwise weak. Only go for Tunnel with an enabler that I didn't list here at all if you know exactly what you're doing and why.

This is pretty good except Warehouse should be at the top of the first list, Young Witch should be in the first list, and Rebuild should probably not be mentioned at all, maybe it's good enough to go in the honorable mentions. It's easy to activate Tunnels with Rebuild, but there's not a lot to do with all the Golds in a Rebuild deck. It's still very hard to buy Provinces and you usually just slow down your Rebuilding.
No, it's not very hard to buy Provinces. There's no need to Rebuild normally when you have a "+1 action, gain 4 Golds, chancellor effect" at $5.

Yeah, if you have Rebuild and two other top-tier enablers it's not hard to make use of that gold. But with just Rebuild and Tunnel? It should be a lot slower to buy Provinces with only those two cards.
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Awaclus

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Re: Tunnel
« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2014, 05:08:02 pm »
0

About Tunnel, it's extremely strong in the presence of Vault, Embassy, Rebuild or Storeroom and possibly useful in the presence of Cellar, Hamlet, Count, Cartographer, Inn, Oasis, Young Witch or Warehouse (the last two being the strongest of these). If there's a trash for benefit card (Remodel for example), it's very likely worth it even with those weaker enablers, but other than that, only if the kingdom is otherwise weak. Only go for Tunnel with an enabler that I didn't list here at all if you know exactly what you're doing and why.

This is pretty good except Warehouse should be at the top of the first list, Young Witch should be in the first list, and Rebuild should probably not be mentioned at all, maybe it's good enough to go in the honorable mentions. It's easy to activate Tunnels with Rebuild, but there's not a lot to do with all the Golds in a Rebuild deck. It's still very hard to buy Provinces and you usually just slow down your Rebuilding.
No, it's not very hard to buy Provinces. There's no need to Rebuild normally when you have a "+1 action, gain 4 Golds, chancellor effect" at $5.

Yeah, if you have Rebuild and two other top-tier enablers it's not hard to make use of that gold. But with just Rebuild and Tunnel? It should be a lot slower to buy Provinces with only those two cards.
Well, the Vault wasn't useful at all as a Tunnel enabler, and Warehouse was more of a Rebuild/Tunnel support card than a Tunnel enabler (being able to discard the Tunnels in your hand so that Rebuild can discard them again is pretty strong). It's also useful for a Rebuild deck in general. I'm pretty sure that in a kingdom without Warehouse and Vault, I could have just bought another Tunnel in place of the Warehouse and more Rebuilds in place of the two Vaults and still won against a pure Rebuild player. Being able to open Rebuild/Tunnel while trashing Hovel was pretty good though, and it doesn't normally happen.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Tunnel
« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2014, 06:01:03 pm »
+3

I can't remember where I first read about the cost of Tunnel, but it's stuck with me as a great example of elegant design.

Tunnel has two parts and each one matters in different phases of the game.  If you buy Tunnel early, it's almost always because you want to make use of the gold-gaining reaction.  The 2VP don't matter at all.  $3 for that reaction is reasonable.  It doesn't need to be more expensive because there is usually further opportunity cost in picking up a discarder and getting the cards to line up.

But in the late game, the reaction doesn't matter much anymore.  There's not enough time for the gold gaining to matter.  This is where the 2VP comes into play.  In the late game, you'll often be happy to pay $3 for 2VP even if there's no way to make use of the reaction at all.

So yeah, Tunnel can seem like a steal because both of its parts could be worth $3 separately.  But since they matter at different points in the game, it works out.
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Tunnel
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2014, 09:16:21 pm »
0

No, it's not very hard to buy Provinces. There's no need to Rebuild normally when you have a "+1 action, gain 4 Golds, chancellor effect" at $5.

Come on man, you've got no Estates, can open Rebuild/Tunnel trash Hovel (which you mentioned) and have Warehouse and Vault for support as well. This says next to nothing about the typical strength of Rebuild/Tunnel. And the strength of Warehouse/Vault is not just that they are good Tunnel activators, but great with Golds. Cool game though.
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