Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2  All

Author Topic: Season two - Game reports & discussion: C  (Read 17097 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

-Stef-

  • 2012 & 2016 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1574
  • Respect: +4419
    • View Profile
Season two - Game reports & discussion: C
« on: July 05, 2014, 08:29:25 am »
0

.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2014, 03:14:55 pm by -Stef- »
Logged
Join the Dominion League!

liopoil

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2587
  • Respect: +2478
    • View Profile
Re: Game reports & discussion: C
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2014, 09:53:34 pm »
0

Games between kfm and I so far:

Game 1: liopoil first, liopoil wins http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140708/log.516cceeae4b082c74d79f558.1404863201192.txt

we go for different BM strategies here. I think mine was probably better given it was a colony game.

Game 2: liopoil first, kfm would have won http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140708/log.516cceeae4b082c74d79f558.1404865220432.txt

kfm chooses the better strategy here, and when he lost internet connection it was his turn with the storeroom in hand that he needed to buy the last two curses and win, so he wins this one.

Game 3: kfm first, liopoil wins http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140708/log.516cceeae4b082c74d79f558.1404867543671.txt

pretty much a mirror where I get much better luck.

Game 4: liopoil first, kfm wins http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140708/log.516cceeae4b082c74d79f558.1404869606658.txt

An engine mirror, he goes too heavy on foragers I think. I win the stables split 6-4, he wins the forager split 6-4. However the stables are more important because six foragers are worthless if you can't draw them. I get a big lead, but in the end I don't buy enough coppers and get a bit unlucky I think and stall for three turns, which let him pull out the win. Perhaps my turn 14 should have been a duchy.

Game 5: kfm first, liopoil wins
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140721/log.516cceeae4b082c74d79f558.1405991564711.txt

a boring rebuild mirror. There was other stuff, but neither of us could be persuaded away from rebuild. Not sure if anything else was viable.

Game 6: kfm first, liopoil wins
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140721/log.516cceeae4b082c74d79f558.1405992806294.txt

hermit-scheme-great hall. He didn't know the hermit-scheme interaction, and really, I wouldn't have either if I hadn't been beat by it in gokodom by mic q. I did it pretty inelegantly too.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2014, 09:49:19 pm by liopoil »
Logged

Mic Qsenoch

  • 2015 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1706
  • Respect: +4324
    • View Profile
Re: Game reports & discussion: C
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2014, 12:00:05 am »
0

Game 1: liopoil first, liopoil wins http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140708/log.516cceeae4b082c74d79f558.1404863201192.txt

we go for different BM strategies here. I think mine was probably better given it was a colony game.

Catacombs is crying at its neglect. You buy 7 Gold (!) before putting in a Rabble. You want a Catacombs after like 1 or 2 Gold, maybe even before the first. Your deck has so much money that you can afford to dip for Provinces sooner as well, your 5th and possibly 4th Platina should be Provinces. These Jack-BM decks on Colony boards can often win by just running out the Provinces after they take a few Colonies. Your opponent needs the terminal draw badly as well, Cartographer doesn't cut it, +3 cards is great with all those FG.

Quote
Game 4: liopoil first, kfm wins http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140708/log.516cceeae4b082c74d79f558.1404869606658.txt

An engine mirror, he goes too heavy on foragers I think. I win the stables split 6-4, he wins the forager split 6-4. However the stables are more important because six foragers are worthless if you can't draw them. I get a big lead, but in the end I don't buy enough coppers and get a bit unlucky I think and stall for three turns, which let him pull out the win. Perhaps my turn 14 should have been a duchy.

I think both players have too many Foragers. It can produce $4, but you need two cards to do it, so it's not that great at making money. It's less consistent than Silver because you need Forager and a suitable trashing target. And the Foragers make Stables less consistent by removing most of your treasures and not being treasure themselves. Once you've got the early lead you should trash out your extra Foragers to protect your consistency.
Logged

liopoil

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2587
  • Respect: +2478
    • View Profile
Re: Game reports & discussion: C
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2014, 08:07:56 am »
0

Game 1: liopoil first, liopoil wins http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140708/log.516cceeae4b082c74d79f558.1404863201192.txt

we go for different BM strategies here. I think mine was probably better given it was a colony game.

Catacombs is crying at its neglect. You buy 7 Gold (!) before putting in a Rabble. You want a Catacombs after like 1 or 2 Gold, maybe even before the first. Your deck has so much money that you can afford to dip for Provinces sooner as well, your 5th and possibly 4th Platina should be Provinces. These Jack-BM decks on Colony boards can often win by just running out the Provinces after they take a few Colonies. Your opponent needs the terminal draw badly as well, Cartographer doesn't cut it, +3 cards is great with all those FG.

Quote
Game 4: liopoil first, kfm wins http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140708/log.516cceeae4b082c74d79f558.1404869606658.txt

An engine mirror, he goes too heavy on foragers I think. I win the stables split 6-4, he wins the forager split 6-4. However the stables are more important because six foragers are worthless if you can't draw them. I get a big lead, but in the end I don't buy enough coppers and get a bit unlucky I think and stall for three turns, which let him pull out the win. Perhaps my turn 14 should have been a duchy.

I think both players have too many Foragers. It can produce $4, but you need two cards to do it, so it's not that great at making money. It's less consistent than Silver because you need Forager and a suitable trashing target. And the Foragers make Stables less consistent by removing most of your treasures and not being treasure themselves. Once you've got the early lead you should trash out your extra Foragers to protect your consistency.
Yeah, I was getting the sense that I should pick up another terminal, but it was going so well I thought perhaps I should take the "safe" play. By the time I got it I think rabble > catacombs, but earlier catacombs would have been better.

Hmmmm, didn't consider that during the game at all. Yeah, I could have gotten to an engine that draws a lot of money each turn, no need for buying coppers. Huh. I think I got a little scared by him rushing the foragers, so while I didn't believe that he was doing the right thing, I followed meekly behind. Originally I think I had planned to get just 2 or 3. Just a few more treasures would have won me the game here though, even with foragers.
Logged

Kfm

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 55
  • Respect: +13
    • View Profile
Re: Game reports & discussion: C
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2014, 12:45:45 pm »
0

Quote
Quote
Game 4: liopoil first, kfm wins http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140708/log.516cceeae4b082c74d79f558.1404869606658.txt

An engine mirror, he goes too heavy on foragers I think. I win the stables split 6-4, he wins the forager split 6-4. However the stables are more important because six foragers are worthless if you can't draw them. I get a big lead, but in the end I don't buy enough coppers and get a bit unlucky I think and stall for three turns, which let him pull out the win. Perhaps my turn 14 should have been a duchy.

I think both players have too many Foragers. It can produce $4, but you need two cards to do it, so it's not that great at making money. It's less consistent than Silver because you need Forager and a suitable trashing target. And the Foragers make Stables less consistent by removing most of your treasures and not being treasure themselves. Once you've got the early lead you should trash out your extra Foragers to protect your consistency.
No doubt too many foragers.
At some point I felt so behind that I felt the only chance for me was some kind of crazy forager shenanigans.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 03:03:44 pm by Kfm »
Logged

Kfm

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 55
  • Respect: +13
    • View Profile
Re: Game reports & discussion: C
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2014, 01:02:51 pm »
0

Game 1: liopoil first, liopoil wins http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140708/log.516cceeae4b082c74d79f558.1404863201192.txt

we go for different BM strategies here. I think mine was probably better given it was a colony game.

Catacombs is crying at its neglect. You buy 7 Gold (!) before putting in a Rabble. You want a Catacombs after like 1 or 2 Gold, maybe even before the first. Your deck has so much money that you can afford to dip for Provinces sooner as well, your 5th and possibly 4th Platina should be Provinces. These Jack-BM decks on Colony boards can often win by just running out the Provinces after they take a few Colonies. Your opponent needs the terminal draw badly as well, Cartographer doesn't cut it, +3 cards is great with all those FG.
Here my plan was fools golds, hence baron and its +buy.  As liopoil said, probably not good in a cony game since even 3 fgs doesnt get you a colony.
 I was too afraid of silvers in this colony game.  Even from the beginning i was wary of Jack cause i didn't want the silvers.. 
Mic Q: What are your thoughts on Jack and buying silvers in a non engine colony game?
Anyways, lesson learned... Just drawing fgs with Catacombs wouldve been better than trying to filter out everything else with only couple Cartographers.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 03:06:26 pm by Kfm »
Logged

Mic Qsenoch

  • 2015 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1706
  • Respect: +4324
    • View Profile
Re: Game reports & discussion: C
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2014, 04:10:55 pm »
0

I think Jack is the strongest thing here. Jack can still be good in a Colony game like this, as replacing Estates with Silver helps a lot in getting to $9, and the Silvers pair well with the terminal draw (Catacombs/Rabble). Using Jack also lets you dip for Provinces much sooner, just like it can allow you to dip for Duchies sooner in a Province game. It seems hard to ever reach a point where nothing > Silver in a Colony BM game, but I guess it's possible. I don't think it will happen on this board though.

Fool's gold would be better here if you had a source of plus buy that didn't depend on having an Estate in hand (gaining Estate with Baron just to buy two FGs doesn't seem like a strong play). The terminal draw also helps the FGs.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 04:11:59 pm by Mic Qsenoch »
Logged

amalloy

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 453
  • Respect: +620
    • View Profile
    • Twitch stream
Re: Game reports & discussion: C
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2014, 09:02:38 pm »
+1

Division C-1: amalloy 1-5 popsofctown

My connection dropped out a couple times throughout this match, so there are three separate Twitch videos of it: Part 1 Part 2 Part 3. I won't be highlighting the individual games, because they span across multiple videos. Additionally, there doesn't seem to be a log file for game 1, but the others generated logs just fine.


Game 1: Fool's Gold + Embassy. This game dragged out quite a bit longer than I expected it to, and my deck petered out. I'm pretty sure I got really bad draws here, and my opponent did some stuff that really didn't make sense to me at all. Plus, it looks like I miscounted points near the end - this was the only game we forgot to have #vpon set. So, whatever, super-gross, I lose.

amalloy 0-1 popsofctown


Game 2 Log



Code: [Select]
Hamlet, Vagrant, Trade Route, Bureaucrat, JackOfAllTrades, Salvager, Wandering Minstrel, Contraband, Library, Royal Seal
We both play Jack/Hamlet, but he picks up Libraries before I do, whereas I get some rather hopeless Salvagers and Minstrels. I get behind on greening with no real way to catch up: I never have a chance here.

amalloy 0-2 popsofctown


Game 3 Log



Code: [Select]
Cellar, Secret Chamber, Stonemason, Lookout, Bureaucrat, Royal Seal, Tactician, Torturer, Tribute, Forge
There's not a lot going on here, but I fail to realize this, and try to Forge myself down to a thin enough deck for a Torturer pin with Tribute for village. Maybe this would have worked if my opponent had also gone for an engine, but with him playing the straightfoward Torturer BM nothing I'm doing makes any sense. I resign once I'm down by like a million points.

amalloy 0-3 popsofctown


Game 4 Log



Code: [Select]
Pearl Diver, University, Black Market, Rats, Remodel, Ghost Ship, Haggler, Library, Upgrade, Expand
This is the game that has me the most frustrated and confused. We both open Potion + Black Market and get a bunch of Upgrades and eventually Libraries. I get my Rats a shuffle earlier, and I pick up a Bishop from the Black Market while he gets a Library sooner. But...he absolutely clobbers me. What was so different about what we did? He draws his whole deck twice and gains a million things, at a point where I'm just floundering around with a single action per turn. I would love feedback about what I did wrong here.

amalloy 0-4 popsofctown


Game 5 Log



Code: [Select]
Lookout, Horse Traders, Spice Merchant, Embassy, Festival, Ill-Gotten Gains, Jester, Tribute, Witch, Hoard
I want to focus on Hoard here, with either Witch or Embassy. I get a Spice Merchant as my only trasher, and take only a single Witch, preferring IGG after that to give him curses sooner. My opponent ignores Hoard, instead moving into some kind of Festival/Witch/Embassy "sifting engine" after two Witches. I don't really understand this plan, but he's better trashed than I am, and I can never really make it up to $8 despite the influx of Gold.

Notable highlight is at 10:00 in http://www.twitch.tv/amalloy/b/547002146, in which I make a frustrated noise that was apparently so gutwrenching that it draws my viewers back from other tabs to see what has caused me so much pain.

amalloy 0-5 popsofctown


Game 6 Log



Code: [Select]
Pawn, Squire, Fishing Village, Lookout, Alchemist, Island, Remodel, Silk Road, Stash, Harem
Silk Road is a monster here, and my main question was whether Alchemist would help me out or slow me down. The 5/2 here is definitely worse than a 4/3, but not really a disaster: Squire is probably best anyway. I decide to open Island/Squire, planning to gain a lot of Silvers while I rush Island, then getting buys to gain multiple greens once it's time to power up Silk Road. My opponent goes for the Alchemist plan, even getting a very questionable second Potion. We end up splitting the Silk Roads 4-4, but I have more Harems, Estates, Islands, and Duchies than he does; all his extra draw never gets him a Province, so I'm miles ahead, managing to salvage a single win from this otherwise disastrous series.

Final score: amalloy 1-5 popsofctown
« Last Edit: July 12, 2014, 09:10:39 pm by amalloy »
Logged

popsofctown

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5477
  • Respect: +2857
    • View Profile
Re: Game reports & discussion: C
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2014, 09:55:53 am »
+2

I had a couple thoughts, but I might not be who you want to hear them from
Logged

amalloy

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 453
  • Respect: +620
    • View Profile
    • Twitch stream
Re: Game reports & discussion: C
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2014, 01:47:07 am »
+2

Division C-1: amalloy 3-3 A Drowned Kernel

You can watch the full match on Twitch, or watch each game individually using the links included with each game in this writeup.


Game 1 Log Video



Code: [Select]
Transmute, Apothecary, Scrying Pool, Fishing Village, Farming Village, Fortress, Horse Traders, Torturer, Treasury, Farmland
The big thing here is a Torturer chain, of course, and we both go for it. But he gets a really terrible 5-2 opening, which puts him in bad shape for the rest of the game. He breaks for Potion cards earlier than I do, at a time when I think he needed more bread&butter stuff; I end up only buying one Transmute with my Potion, so I probably would have done better to not buy it at all. His Potion cards don't do much good either. Additionally, I got pretty amazing shuffle luck throughout the game, drawing Torturers just when I need them. Eventually I'm in a position to three-pile Torturer/FV/Curse while ahead, but his deck had so many Curses and so few Torturers I was never really in danger.

amalloy 1-0 A Drowned Kernel


Game 2 Log Video



Code: [Select]
Moat, Secret Chamber, Ambassador, Cutpurse, Embassy, Governor, Inn, Mandarin, Bank, Expand
Governor is a big deal here, as it always is, and Ambassador is a strong force as well. I thought Governor would be good enough that I should delay my Ambassador(s) to get Governor early, while ADK went double-Ambassador. I do get the first three Governors, but then ADK gets the next seven and is super-thin, playing his whole deck every turn while I'm just crawling through my awful deck full of Coppers. This game is a slaughter.

amalloy 1-1 A Drowned Kernel


Game 3 Log Video



Code: [Select]
Candlestick Maker, Crossroads, Herbalist, Fortune Teller, Bishop, Gardens, Plaza, Spy, Bandit Camp, Grand Market
This looked to me like a CSM/Gardens game, but I also wondered whether Bishop+GM might be able to get going in time to beat that. I opened double CSM, but I agree with what Mic Qsenoch said in the chat: I needed some early Silvers to get me some more substantial economy - I had trouble buying as many Gardens as I wanted, with just coin tokens and Coppers. ADK goes for the Bishop+GM thing, but I don't really like how he played it: he got only one Bishop, and that fairly late: once he sees I'm going Gardens he can trash with impunity, since I won't be sharing the benefit. He also denies Gardens to me, which I think was the right call, but it really slowed down his GM buying. Even the four Gardens I ended up with were enough to win, at four points each and all eight Estates.

amalloy 2-1 A Drowned Kernel


Game 4 Log Video



Code: [Select]
Fishing Village, Swindler, Death Cart, JackOfAllTrades, Monument, Remake, Apprentice, Baker, Journeyman, Merchant Guild
There are so many good terminals, and only one Village pile, so those look key, but other than that I was quite lost on how to build this big engine. ADK opens double Remake, while I am just completely stumped and go for Apprentice/Swindler, hoping to trash his Villages or something. This lack of a plan continues for the rest of the game, and ADK gets the engine running smooth as silk in no time: I was at least two whole turns behind him all game, despite hitting a Fishing Village both times I played Swindler, which shows pretty clearly that his opening was a million times better.

amalloy 2-2 A Drowned Kernel


Game 5 Log Video



Code: [Select]
Chapel, Hamlet, Herbalist, Doctor, Bishop, Island, Walled Village, City, Haggler, Margrave
A pretty fun Haggler engine here, after the Chapel preliminaries. Our shuffles were very similar for most of the early game, with the first deviation being that I bought a Margrave ahead of my second Haggler, while ADK got the second Haggler first. I had some grand designs on buying Province haggling Gold Gold and then Bishop-trashing the Golds each turn, but with all these Hagglers around the piles were depleted way too fast for that to really work out. Instead, I just win the boring way, by getting up to an $8 deck before he can, and haggling a bunch of great stuff off of my Provinces. The last turn I have exactly $12 and 2 buys, with three Hagglers in play, which is just enough to buy two Golds and haggle out the last six engine pieces while ahead.

amalloy 3-2 A Drowned Kernel


Game 6 Log Video Conclusion (the stream cut out right before the end of the game, so the last minute or two are in another video).



Code: [Select]
Poor House, Squire, Bureaucrat, Farming Village, Fortress, Plaza, Spice Merchant, Golem, Festival, Witch
Witch with no Curse-trashing is a bummer, but with Spice Merchant around, Golem can enable a Poor House kinda enginey thing even with a bunch of Curses. I got a pretty bad first shuffle, with my Spice Merchant and Silver both missing, while my opponent's shuffle is more reasonable. He got Plazas early, while I went for Farming Village, figuring it would be nice to skip Curses and that Plaza wouldn't help much once the treasures are all gone. And all of that is true, but before the treasures are gone Plaza was way better, enabling him to win the Curse split while also grabbing a bunch of Golems. I almost mount a surprising comeback on Duchies, but it's not really enough as he beats me on Provinces and Curses.

Final score: amalloy 3-3 A Drowned Kernel
Logged

Mic Qsenoch

  • 2015 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1706
  • Respect: +4324
    • View Profile
Re: Game reports & discussion: C
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2014, 05:10:18 pm »
+3

He also denies Gardens to me, which I think was the right call, but it really slowed down his GM buying. Even the four Gardens I ended up with were enough to win, at four points each and all eight Estates.

The Gardens "denial" was horrible. The way to beat Gardens here is to make use of the trashing from Bishop, which they can't take advantgage of, and then build until you can score a whole bunch of points from Provinces or Bishop tricks. Buying 4 Gardens as denial shortens the game by at least 4 turns, probably more like 6. And the engine player wants the game to last as long as possible, as their points potential is much higher than the Gardens player. Rushing towards game end when your opponent has a decent points lead is almost always a bad idea.
Logged

AdamH

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2829
  • Shuffle iT Username: Adam Horton
  • You make your own shuffle luck
  • Respect: +3878
    • View Profile
    • My Dominion Videos
Re: Game reports & discussion: C
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2014, 11:35:06 pm »
+2

C2 Division match: AdamH 2 games, kfm 4 games

Twitch Stream: part 1  part 2
YouTube Playlist: link


Game 1: AdamH 13, kfm 9
Game Log     Twitch Highlight     YouTube video
Kingdom Cards: Courtyard, Watchtower, Philosopher's Stone, Taxman, Cultist, Horn of Plenty, Rebuild, Tribute, Bank, King's Court, with Platinum/Colony

It's a King's Court engine with no trashing and a junking attack! Yay! Well it's a swingy game and I get a slight edge and I'm able to 3-pile with a lead off of my first player advantage. There are some interesting things that happen here, though: both of us get use out of Ruined Market as the only source of +Buy. Also, you can use Courtyard and Watchtower to set up your next hand to guarantee that you kick off. Also, once you're kicking off reliably you almost never want to chain your Cultists so that you can King them. Some very interesting things about the way you play this engine to make it more reliable than RNGesus would have it.


Game 2: kfm 37, AdamH 34
Game Log     Twitch Highlight (part 1) (part 2)     YouTube video (part 1) (part 2)
Kingdom Cards: Stonemason, Mining Village, Worker's Village, Embassy, Harvest, Margrave, Mystic, Royal Seal, Stables, Fairgrounds

Super-cool Fairgrounds engine to be built here with Stables being a key component. I win the Stables split 7-3 and end up with what I believe is a much better deck.

So let's say you have a really busy summer and you stop playing Dominion almost entirely for over a month after being at the top of your game. What do you think is the first thing to atrophy? Well the answer for me is counting. Once the Fairgrounds are gone I think I have five of them when I really only have four. I then proceed to run out the third pile while he gets more points and hand him the game. Given the situation I think I could have nearly guaranteed a win but I decided to just not count correctly and give him the game. Ugh.

During this game, A Drowned Kernel suggested that we rig up a Twitch Plays Dominion and have it play Serf Bot. I realize this will be difficult to implement but this sounds hilarious and we need to do it.


Game 3: AdamH 38, kfm 56
Game Log     Twitch Highlight     YouTube video
Kingdom Cards: Oasis, Steward, Armory, Death Cart, Talisman, Baker, Bandit Camp, Haggler, Knights, Rabble, with Platinum/Colony

A draw engine here to be built, but there's Knights and no +Buy other than Sir Buys. I consider making a Knight-proof deck but I decide it can't be done very well, so I go for lots of Knights while he successfully builds a Knight-proof deck. I still have a shot but I wait too long to green and I can't catch up. There were a couple of ways I might have been able to catch up, especially given that Sir Buys was so available, but it didn't end up working out for me -- perhaps I could have played the endgame better too.


Game 4: kfm 56, AdamH 54
Game Log     Twitch Highlight     YouTube video
Kingdom Cards: Market Square, Sage, Philosopher's Stone, Bishop, Monument, Nomad Camp, Young Witch, Mine, Tribute, Bank, Peddler, with Platinum/Colony

Well it's Young Witch with a decent bane and money on a Colony board, so this game is effectively a coin flip. I lose the coin flip. I could say more things about this game but what's the point?


Game 5: kfm 32, AdamH 19
Game Log     Twitch Highlight     YouTube video
Kingdom Cards: Chapel, Haven, Fortune Teller, Alchemist, Bridge, Smithy, Margrave, Tactician, Witch, Nobles

So we mirror again in this game with slight variations, but the Bread 'N' Butter of this deck is Chapel to thin, Alchemist to draw, Nobles as a $6 Necropolis, and play lots of Bridges. My Chapel misses the opening shuffle, and the chat seemed to think this is what did me in, but I'm not entirely convinced of that. I'm also not convinced that I did anything wrong here. There's some talk that I should have trashed more aggressively after the Chapel missed but I don't agree. I wonder if there are some other thoughts on this game? I'm not willing to say I lost this one due to shuffle luck because, well, you know.

In between games 5 and 6, we started two games but he lost connection and we couldn't finish them. I think they both would have been very interesting though. Meh.


Game 6: AdamH 38, kfm 37
Game Log     Twitch Highlight     YouTube video
Kingdom Cards: Haven, Lighthouse, Mining Village, Wandering Minstrel, Ghost Ship, Mandarin, Mystic, Rabble, Grand Market, King's Court, with Shelters

A big King's Court engine again with no trashing but cool little ways to ensure reliability. Wandering Winder (the person, not the card) continuously questions my Haven buys which I'm really curious about -- I think they were amazing, though maybe the 3rd one was a little much? On the second-to-last turn I miss a really simple win because I can't properly observe the number of Provinces remaining in the supply, so I do a really complex calculation to get Duchies while making sure he can't win the game, which proves effective, but ultimately makes me look silly along with Game 2's debacle.


In any case, it's always fun to play with kfm, since I know him IRL and we meet up sometimes to play Dominion. Perhaps I need another season to get back to the top of my game; if I'm going to be throwing away games because I can't count then I don't deserve to get promoted, but I'll KEEP HOPE ALIVE. Thanks for the match!
« Last Edit: July 30, 2014, 01:34:25 pm by AdamH »
Logged
Visit my blog for links to a whole bunch of Dominion content I've made.

AdamH

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2829
  • Shuffle iT Username: Adam Horton
  • You make your own shuffle luck
  • Respect: +3878
    • View Profile
    • My Dominion Videos
Re: Game reports & discussion: C
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2014, 03:55:49 pm »
+3

C2 Division match: soulnet 4 games, AdamH 2 games

Entire stream on Twitch: (part 1) (part 2)
Video Playlist on YouTube


Game 1: AdamH 3, soulnet 16
Game log     Twitch highlight     YouTube video
Kingdom Cards: Native Village, Ambassador, Steward, Storeroom, Taxman, Baker, Butcher, Ill-Gotten Gains, Witch, Fairgrounds

I lose the Ambassador war this game which is why I lose, but what puzzles me is why I lose it. I don't think it's my Baker/Ambassador opening vs. his double Ambassador, since a couple of shuffles into the game I'm actually thinner than he is. I wonder if it's the fact that I got a Butcher... I believe I got outplayed here but I honestly don't know what it was that caused it and why. If I'm going to lose a game I at least want to learn from it, so any thoughts?


Game 2: AdamH 49, soulnet 42
Game log     Twitch highlight     YouTube video
Kingdom Cards: Smugglers, Feodum, JackOfAllTrades, Moneylender, Highway, Knights, Royal Seal, Saboteur, Hunting Grounds, Expand, with Shelters

Well Jack is amazing here, and nothing else really is. I major in Silver and minor in Feoda while he goes straight for Provinces and I come out ahead.


Game 3: soulnet 54, AdamH 44
Game log     Twitch highlight     YouTube video
Kingdom Cards: Scrying Pool, Oasis, Quarry, Counting House, Duke, Haggler, Highway, Horn of Plenty, Knights, Pillage, with Colony/Platinum

What a weird, weak board; how do you even play this? Assume Dame Anna is not on top of the pile (games like that are why I hate Knights; thankfully this game wasn't one of those). He gets Platinum before me and ends up winning because of it, but I really don't understand why.

He went for Scrying Pool and I didn't but to be honest I don't see how that should have helped him all that much. Usually when I get beat by Scrying Pool I can look back and do the math and it makes sense why my opponents were drawing so much, but here he only got 3 of them (giving up good buys for it in some cases) and they were never expected to be any better than Labs at any point in the game. I would think diverting for Potions early would have hurt him in terms of getting his first Platinum but it didn't and that's exactly why he won. So what am I missing?

Also, I want to take this opportunity to whine about something. I bought a $200 gaming headset (mostly because my fiancÚ and I have been long-distance for most of our 3 years and Skype is how we communicate) and it decided to be incredibly difficult during this game, resulting in the last half of the game having no audio and me futzing around with it for 10 minutes in between games. I don't know what the problem is but that was annoying. Rant over.


Game 4: AdamH 38, soulnet 48
Game log     Twitch highlight     YouTube video
Kingdom Cards: Embargo, Stonemason, Chancellor, Great Hall, Watchtower, Cutpurse, Quarry, Thief, Jester, Merchant Ship, with Colony/Platinum

This game was stupid. Big Money with Colonies. He opens 5/2 and Embargoes Golds (a great move for him) which puts him way ahead and he ends up winning. I'm sort of happy it was as close as it was, but this game wasn't fun to play at all.


Game 5: soulnet resigned, AdamH 14
Game log     Twitch highlight     YouTube video
Kingdom Cards: Crossroads, Secret Chamber, Marauder, Moneylender, Apprentice, Counting House, Horn of Plenty, Journeyman, Mine, King's Court

King's Court engine into Horn megaturn here. He gets a 5/2 opening here which appears to be good, but might have actually hurt him. In any case, I'm the first to King a Marauder, and I'm able to kick off a couple of times and King a Moneylender a couple of times and at that point he resigns. Perhaps it was bad luck on his part, but I think I played well this game.


Game 6: soulnet 42, AdamH 37
Game log     Twitch highlight     YouTube video
Kingdom Cards: Cellar, Scout, Golem, Highway, Inn, Mandarin, Merchant Ship, Stables, Upgrade, Farmland

Big Money? Well I thought you'd never ask! Which big money enabler do you use? Well I think it depends on your draws, and my draws very strongly told me Mandarin. He got a couple of other action cards, and it didn't really seem focused to me TBH, but he wins this one. Who knows which strategy is better? I thought I played really well this game but whatevs.


So I'm not playing well this tournament because I'm really out of practice and not entirely focused on the right things. My results reflect that and I'm just hoping to not get demoted this season. I'm hoping to play more now that my life is starting to settle down and maybe get better. Soulnet played well and certainly deserved to win all of the games he won, but I'm having some trouble finding what I could have done better in the games I lost. If I can't learn from these games then I might just keep on losing.

I have my HexChat fixed so I should be able to save off chat logs from my future streams, but I didn't get the chat log from this one yet (though I think some people said they might have been saving it). Any comments you might have on this match are appreciated.

In any case, soulnet was a great opponent and I'd be happy to play lots more games with him. Thanks for the match!
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 09:30:44 am by AdamH »
Logged
Visit my blog for links to a whole bunch of Dominion content I've made.

soulnet

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2142
  • Respect: +1751
    • View Profile
Re: Game reports & discussion: C
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2014, 10:05:47 am »
+1

I lose the Ambassador war this game which is why I lose, but what puzzles me is why I lose it. I don't think it's my Baker/Ambassador opening vs. his double Ambassador, since a couple of shuffles into the game I'm actually thinner than he is. I wonder if it's the fact that I got a Butcher... I believe I got outplayed here but I honestly don't know what it was that caused it and why. If I'm going to lose a game I at least want to learn from it, so any thoughts?

Baker does not do a lot for you in the thinning war. Only Ambassador, Witch and Steward do. If you are only getting one Amb, you should be getting Steward ASAP. I think there was actually some luck involved, because I was expecting you to be buried much sooner than it actually happened (of course, I could also be way off here).

Well Jack is amazing here, and nothing else really is. I major in Silver and minor in Feoda while he goes straight for Provinces and I come out ahead.

There is certainly a lesson here. Jack is of course the way to go, but Jack-Feodum? Man, I would have never even consider it until yesterday.

Perhaps it was bad luck on his part, but I think I played well this game.

I agree with both assertions here. On top of that, it is likely that, once behind, I lacked some patience and cold-head to think and try to get back in the game.


Big Money? Well I thought you'd never ask! Which big money enabler do you use? Well I think it depends on your draws, and my draws very strongly told me Mandarin. He got a couple of other action cards, and it didn't really seem focused to me TBH, but he wins this one. Who knows which strategy is better? I thought I played really well this game but whatevs.

I don't think Mandarin over Merchant Ship is the right call (maybe if you get a hand with Gold+Silver and cannot get Gold, and of course for endgame manouvers). Moreover, Stables is really REALLY nice even for BM, because it accelerates you when it matters and is useful all the way. And Upgrade is great. Estates into Silver really help BM, and, being the only one with multiple gains per turn helps a lot in boring BM mirrors (though it did not help me that much). I think this was closer than it should (should considering only strategy) because I got a couple of tactical things all wrong (that's what probably made you think I was not focused?) and I got some bad draws during the greening stage.

EDIT: To answer your question more directly, I think the problem with early Mandarin is that they delay your shuffles too much, hurting your development. You can get Provinces fine, but your deck lacks power to get into heavy greening.

In any case, soulnet was a great opponent and I'd be happy to play lots more games with him. Thanks for the match!

Nice playing with you too! And it is nice to have games recorded without going through the trouble of doing it myself (especially since I cannot get twitch to work, and hangout's quality is not nearly as nice).
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 10:08:24 am by soulnet »
Logged

AdamH

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2829
  • Shuffle iT Username: Adam Horton
  • You make your own shuffle luck
  • Respect: +3878
    • View Profile
    • My Dominion Videos
Re: Game reports & discussion: C
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2014, 10:32:36 am »
0

I lose the Ambassador war this game which is why I lose, but what puzzles me is why I lose it. I don't think it's my Baker/Ambassador opening vs. his double Ambassador, since a couple of shuffles into the game I'm actually thinner than he is. I wonder if it's the fact that I got a Butcher... I believe I got outplayed here but I honestly don't know what it was that caused it and why. If I'm going to lose a game I at least want to learn from it, so any thoughts?

Baker does not do a lot for you in the thinning war. Only Ambassador, Witch and Steward do. If you are only getting one Amb, you should be getting Steward ASAP. I think there was actually some luck involved, because I was expecting you to be buried much sooner than it actually happened (of course, I could also be way off here).

Ah! Here's my lesson from this game: you were only thinking about the Ambassador war and nothing else and that's why you won. I thought since the draw was weak (and therefore the engine was weak) that I could go for "light Ambassador" and be OK. "Light Ambassador" is only viable in more money-focused games, though, and since there was any engine at all to build here I should have fully invested in the Ambassador war and focused on nothing else.

Even then, I still like the Baker/Ambassador opening more than double Ambassador, but I think I should have picked up a second Amb immediately and all of this makes Butcher look just terrible.

Well Jack is amazing here, and nothing else really is. I major in Silver and minor in Feoda while he goes straight for Provinces and I come out ahead.

There is certainly a lesson here. Jack is of course the way to go, but Jack-Feodum? Man, I would have never even consider it until yesterday.

Not all Feodum enablers were created equal, but sometimes Silver flood is the way to go even without Feodum available (and it was definitely the case here with Knights and Saboteur potentially wrecking your day). I've been crushed more than enough times by decks that do this because they usually have lots of longevity and can contest Provinces deep into the endgame, especially if not contested on Feoda. I've found that "just denying a couple of Feoda" is usually not enough here like can sometimes be for other Alt-VP cards.

Big Money? Well I thought you'd never ask! Which big money enabler do you use? Well I think it depends on your draws, and my draws very strongly told me Mandarin. He got a couple of other action cards, and it didn't really seem focused to me TBH, but he wins this one. Who knows which strategy is better? I thought I played really well this game but whatevs.

I don't think Mandarin over Merchant Ship is the right call (maybe if you get a hand with Gold+Silver and cannot get Gold, and of course for endgame manouvers).

Are you sure about this? I hate Merchant Ship/BM and I think Mandarin/BM is super-underrated. Given my draws, Mandarin was actually accelerating my growth, even if it wasn't accelerating my shuffles. I can see situations where your draws lead you to Merchant Ship/BM, and maybe those are more likely to happen than what I got, but I don't regret getting those two early Mandarins at all.

Moreover, Stables is really REALLY nice even for BM, because it accelerates you when it matters and is useful all the way. And Upgrade is great. Estates into Silver really help BM, and, being the only one with multiple gains per turn helps a lot in boring BM mirrors (though it did not help me that much). I think this was closer than it should (should considering only strategy) because I got a couple of tactical things all wrong (that's what probably made you think I was not focused?) and I got some bad draws during the greening stage.

My comment was based on the idea that I thought your deck wanted more Stables, but I didn't want to go for that given the lack of +Buy. You only had one Stables, so I didn't see any real synergy between the cards you got. I guess a "focused deck" isn't what you were going for; but rather money with a couple of enablers that don't anti-synergize. When I play Big Money I like to play a more focused money deck because they tend to be a little more consistent, but I can't imagine that all of this results in much more than a 60%-40% chance of winning for either of us. Meh.

In any case, soulnet was a great opponent and I'd be happy to play lots more games with him. Thanks for the match!

Nice playing with you too! And it is nice to have games recorded without going through the trouble of doing it myself (especially since I cannot get twitch to work, and hangout's quality is not nearly as nice).

If only Google Hangout would let you stream anything other than an entire window, I would have totally been using that in conjunction with my YouTube channel instead of ever bothering with Twitch. I just don't understand at all why anyone would ever want to see your whole window, toolbars and all. Ugh. Anyways, I've had some success with helping people debug Twitch/OBS issues so if you want some help fixing it I'll do my best.
Logged
Visit my blog for links to a whole bunch of Dominion content I've made.

soulnet

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2142
  • Respect: +1751
    • View Profile
Re: Game reports & discussion: C
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2014, 12:49:17 pm »
0

Are you sure about this? I hate Merchant Ship/BM and I think Mandarin/BM is super-underrated. Given my draws, Mandarin was actually accelerating my growth, even if it wasn't accelerating my shuffles. I can see situations where your draws lead you to Merchant Ship/BM, and maybe those are more likely to happen than what I got, but I don't regret getting those two early Mandarins at all.

Not completely sure, no. I am more sure that, other than topdecking nice Treasures, a single MS is better than a single Mandarin. Maybe Mandarin/MS is better than 2xMS because it avoids collisions much better.

My comment was based on the idea that I thought your deck wanted more Stables, but I didn't want to go for that given the lack of +Buy. You only had one Stables, so I didn't see any real synergy between the cards you got. I guess a "focused deck" isn't what you were going for; but rather money with a couple of enablers that don't anti-synergize. When I play Big Money I like to play a more focused money deck because they tend to be a little more consistent, but I can't imagine that all of this results in much more than a 60%-40% chance of winning for either of us. Meh.

My (possibly oversimplistic) analysis is that, once you are greening, MS is better than Stables, but Stables is better early on. I got Upgrade first, then Stables, and my next $5 was probably my last before getting Duchies, so I wanted the economy.

Anyways, I've had some success with helping people debug Twitch/OBS issues so if you want some help fixing it I'll do my best.

I asked on the streaming thread, but there was a lack of people with experience making it work under linux.
Logged

Titandrake

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2206
  • Respect: +2850
    • View Profile
Re: Game reports & discussion: C
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2014, 01:28:08 pm »
0

I asked on the streaming thread, but there was a lack of people with experience making it work under linux.

I've successfully built OBS Studio on Mac, and I assume the Linux build is similar. I don't use it for streaming because it doesn't have as many features as the Windows version. It's missing window capture, it can only capture your entire desktop.

Although, looking through the dependencies at https://github.com/jp9000/obs-studio/blob/master/INSTALL, you might have to build some of the dependencies for OBS Studio as well, instead of relying on package manager magic.
Logged
I have a blog! It's called Sorta Insightful. Check it out?

AdamH

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2829
  • Shuffle iT Username: Adam Horton
  • You make your own shuffle luck
  • Respect: +3878
    • View Profile
    • My Dominion Videos
Re: Game reports & discussion: C
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2014, 02:26:39 pm »
0

I got the chat log from amalloy. Thank you, I'm going to +1 some of your more recent posts for this. It's attached to this post.

A couple of things I wanted to mention:

In the third game, I wasn't sure what to do. Jsh's comments are helpful

Quote
(11:45:48 AM) jsh357: the best art is horn/highway/oasis so just do that

Another thing I was messing up in this game:

Quote
(11:53:47 AM) wanderingwinder: he's missing that HoP costs more than other 5s
(11:54:05 AM) the_number_e: yeah, quarry is actually awesome for that

This actually would have made a lot of sense given my deck.

And when my audio was having issues I had to keep the chat open for a little bit into one of the games. The following is the insightful commentary

Quote
(12:12:40 PM) adamhorton: no strategy talk in here until I say I'm leaving, please
(12:12:54 PM) wanderingwinder: buy curse
(12:12:55 PM) the_number_e: jsh has been the most helpful of everyone
(12:13:05 PM) wanderingwinder: I mean, oops, sorry, not supposed to help you win
(12:13:07 PM) the_number_e: open curse/silver
(12:13:19 PM) the_number_e: on a masquerade board, so you can pass the curse away
Logged
Visit my blog for links to a whole bunch of Dominion content I've made.

soulnet

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2142
  • Respect: +1751
    • View Profile
Re: Game reports & discussion: C
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2014, 03:56:45 pm »
0

I am glad to see that in games that we did not know what to do, the crowd was not set on a strategy either. But I am even more glad about this:
Quote
wanderingwinder: Jack/Feodum: Not really a thing
Logged

assemble_me

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1407
  • Shuffle iT Username: assemble me
  • Dominion stream/yt junkie
  • Respect: +807
    • View Profile
Re: Game reports & discussion: C
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2014, 05:23:13 pm »
0

Well Jack is amazing here, and nothing else really is. I major in Silver and minor in Feoda while he goes straight for Provinces and I come out ahead.

There is certainly a lesson here. Jack is of course the way to go, but Jack-Feodum? Man, I would have never even consider it until yesterday.

Not all Feodum enablers were created equal, but sometimes Silver flood is the way to go even without Feodum available (and it was definitely the case here with Knights and Saboteur potentially wrecking your day). I've been crushed more than enough times by decks that do this because they usually have lots of longevity and can contest Provinces deep into the endgame, especially if not contested on Feoda. I've found that "just denying a couple of Feoda" is usually not enough here like can sometimes be for other Alt-VP cards.

While Jack isn't as good as Trader in the amount of Silvers you get, it's still pretty good for its usual Jack powers (draw to five, trash Estates or a Feodum at an opportune moment). I just wanted to note that I had a very interesting game last league season where my opponent went for an engine going for Fairgrounds where I went Jack/Feodum, just in case you're interested... (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=11178.msg383159#msg383159 Game 4)
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 05:30:09 pm by assemble_me »
Logged
Join the f.ds Dominion league | My Twitch channel

... and none of his posts shall remain unedited

AdamH

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2829
  • Shuffle iT Username: Adam Horton
  • You make your own shuffle luck
  • Respect: +3878
    • View Profile
    • My Dominion Videos
Re: Partial results
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2014, 04:12:50 pm »
0

We had to split this match into two sessions.

Here's a link to the first four games on Twitch.
Video playlist on YouTube

We played part of another game but lio lost connection part of the way through so it didn't count. We ended up not counting it and just moving on, but here's the Twitch and YouTube videos of it if you're interested.


Game 1: liopoil 43, AdamH 31
Game log     Twitch highlight     YouTube Video
Kingdom Cards: Hamlet, Great Hall, Steward, Workshop, Armory, Coppersmith, Plaza, Worker's Village, Embassy, Minion

Super-interesting kingdom here, I'm thinking about holding onto this one for the next Kingdom Design Challenge. There's Minion with lots of support but there's also a Coppersmith engine to be built here too with a potentially huge payload. It's such a struggle which one I want to go for, but after lio gets off to a lead on the Minions, I decide I can't win by following him that way so I go for the Coppersmiths. After 5 Minions, he goes for green, though, giving me the clear to stop contesting Minions and focus on building more -- the chat and me think he should have emptied Minions before greening but we talked after the game about it and lio thought that 5 Minions was enough.

I'm able to catch up a little bit by emptying the Duchies and staying viable through Embassy (and its on-gain "attack") but I'm one turn too late as lio snatches Province #7 to end the game right before I can get one more big turn. Maybe if I was first player I would have won? But who knows.

I'm still not sure what is the "right" strategy here -- it could be a tactical choice.


Game 2: liopoil 32, AdamH 27
Game log     Twitch highlight     YouTube Video
Kingdom Cards: Beggar, Chapel, Hamlet, Apothecary, Oasis, Nomad Camp, Wandering Minstrel, Horn of Plenty, Inn, Harem, with Shelters

Apothecary deck here with decent support. The differences in our play is that I probably overbuilt and but a questionable T12 Chapel (that turned out to not really help or hurt me) and he invested in some higher-value treasures. In the end I'm punished for my insolence because I can't catch up, though I had some cool dreams of using my 7-3 Apothecary split to do some awesome things.


Game 3: AdamH 41, liopoil 27
Game log     Twitch highlight     YouTube Video
Kingdom Cards: Tunnel, Watchtower, Alchemist, Philosopher's Stone, Feast, Horse Traders, Plaza, Baker, Soothsayer, Farmland

Another really interesting board: Soothsayer is around with no trashing except Watchtower to defend -- but wait, Plaza/Watchtower with HT and Tunnel support give lots of different directions you can go! How do you decide what to go for? Does it depend on your opponent's choice? Your draws? Such a tough call to make. However, the Plaza/Watchtower deck is sort of weak without auxiliary draw (Alchemist) or lots of Plazas (I think).

I get a Soothsayer and only get one Curse through, but after he signals full-on Plaza/Watchtower, I use Farmland and a couple of awkward $6 buys to turn Estates into Plazas, mostly for denial, which really hurts his growth. Another convenient consequence is that they functioned like Silvers for buying Provinces and I could save coin tokens by Farmlanding Farmland into Province! This interaction between Farmland and Plaza turned out to be really strong given that I wanted to deny Plazas (otherwise Gold might have been better -- or maybe not because of Soothsayer?) and I end up with 6 Provinces on turn 16. Tough to compete with.


Game 4: AdamH 36, liopoil 5
Game log     Twitch highlight     YouTube Video
Kingdom Cards: Alchemist, Ironmonger, Noble Brigand, Treasure Map, Ghost Ship, Jester, Merchant Guild, Royal Seal, Grand Market, Forge

Once again a really interesting and interactive board. There's draw here but it's weak unless you want to go for Potions, and the payload with Forge and Grand Market is really awesome. With a 3/4 opening I'd struggle between opening Potion or Ironmonger, but after my T1 Ghost Ship, lio still opts to open Potion (which I wouldn't have done). I get some weird draws and end up with not much economy but a lot of Ironmongers and Ghost Ships, so I end up not going for Alchemists and just aim to stay thin with Forge, which works out tremendously when my Jester starts hitting his Alchemists anyways. It's not long before I have a just lead and can mow through the Provinces.

I wonder if I would have been as successful had he adapted to my play a little more, like not top-decking all of your Alchemists so you have a Copper or something to put back to my Ghost Ship so my Jester can hit it? In any case there's a lot of cool interaction here.


The continuation of the match...
Second Twitch stream

Game 5: AdamH 23, liopoil 0
Game log     Twitch highlight     YouTube Video
Kingdom Cards: Cellar, Native Village, Forager, Silk Road, Spy, Taxman, Highway, Laboratory, Treasury, Hunting Grounds

Very interesting board, with Highway looming and Forager as the only +Buy you have to play with some finesse here. The on-trash benefit of Hunting Grounds looks enormous because it's the only way to increase deck size, plus it offers massive pile control in the ability to empty Estates in one swell foop [sic].

In any case, it's a pretty close mirror but using my first player and the fact that I bought a third Forager I'm able to put piles in a place where I can empty them on a win the following turn and he can't pile out in the meantime. He doesn't draw his entire deck so he can't make a big enough dent in the green to reasonably protect himself and I trash three HG for Estates on my next turn to end the game on piles.

EDIT: Actually after listening to lio's commentary on the game, he does a much better job of making the differences in our play clear. His commentary is actually really great and I highly recommend listening to it.


Game 6: liopoil 11, AdamH 9
Game log     Twitch highlight     YouTube Video
Kingdom Cards: Courtyard, Oracle, Alchemist, Marauder, Plaza, Spice Merchant, Golem, City, Counting House, Harem

Once again a mirror with only small variations in play here. Marauder is a priority since Ruins can't be trashed. We split Cities 5 each and I give him 6 of the Ruins.

On my last turn I underestimate his deck's potential because I didn't think he had two Ruined Markets, leaving it possible for him to pile Estates on his last turn which I didn't see coming. He plays five of his Ruins on that turn, all of them to great effect, and stretches just far enough to get 16 and 8 buys and win the game. If I had realized his deck could do this I could have made a slight change in my play to possibly protect myself (I think?) but the game just came down to me underestimating the effect of Ruins on his deck. Another game won by piling Estates.

I usually hate these kind of jokes, but this one made me laugh.

Quote
<florrat> and we're all wandering winder, so we're all better?
<titandrake> but then nobody's better
<mic_qsenoch> of all the weak f.ds jokes, that's one of them
<titandrake> how did htat joke even start?
<titandrake> i can't remember
<eeeveeee> second weakest, i thiknk
<titandrake> wait, what's the weakest?
<eeeveeee> its not mint place to say

And on the video:

Quote
Megan (IRL): "At least you have Spoilers for economy"

I think I'm calling Spoils "Spoilers" from now on. Megan seems to be popular in the chat:

Quote
<theblankman> best commentator ever, you need her on all your matches

Is it because she's a girl? THE WORLD MAY NEVER KNOW! :P

Overall this is one of my favorite matches. These six games were all interesting and high-skill, and lio is a good opponent. I'm happy to play him on these boards. With this result he is safe from demotion and I have a halfway decent chance of not getting demoted. Next season I'm coming for division B!
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 12:39:13 pm by AdamH »
Logged
Visit my blog for links to a whole bunch of Dominion content I've made.

AdamH

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2829
  • Shuffle iT Username: Adam Horton
  • You make your own shuffle luck
  • Respect: +3878
    • View Profile
    • My Dominion Videos
Re: Game reports & discussion: C
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2014, 01:30:22 pm »
+1

AdamH 4 games, florrat 2 games


Not every game in this match was the most fascinating game ever, but at least the less fascinating ones were still kind of interesting (to me) and they went by quickly.



Game 1: florrat 21, AdamH 30
Game log     Twitch highlight     YouTube video
Kingdom Cards: Transmute, Doctor, Woodcutter, Baron, JackOfAllTrades, Remodel, Salvager, Baker, Stash, Grand Market

Well there's no draw, but there's Grand Market and Baker and lots of thinning, so do you go for Jack and Baker or do you go for the thin deck with lots of Grand Markets? Both options appear to be very strong here since I go for Jack and he goes for thinning, but he doesn't go all the way for a megaturn. The Jack+Baker is so strong, though, picking up 5 Provinces on turn 12 with a neat situation about endgame control that allows me to "break PPR," securing a victory for me.


Game 2: AdamH 25, florrat 38
Game log     Twitch highlight     YouTube video
Kingdom Cards: Lighthouse, Philosopher's Stone, Feast, Mining Village, Band of Misfits, Cultist, Graverobber, Ill-Gotten Gains, Mandarin, Upgrade

We both have a similar idea here with Upgrade/Lighthouse/Cultist, but with no +Buy I overestimate the strength of Graverobber payload and build for too long, making it impossible for me to catch up. Even then, it appears the chat found a forced win that I missed. Lovely!


Game 3: AdamH 32, florrat 18
Game log     Twitch highlight     YouTube video
Kingdom Cards: Beggar, Masquerade (bane), Oasis, Workshop, JackOfAllTrades, Moneylender, Young Witch, Cartographer, Trading Post, Tribute, Expand

Jack with some enablers and no draw. I play a focused Double Jack + Oasis deck and he opts for a Masquerade (which seems pretty good) and a Young Witch, since I didn't pick up any banes. Unfortunately, Double Jack is just too strong.


Game 4: AdamH 21, florrat 39
Game log     Twitch highlight     YouTube video
Kingdom Cards: Moat, Pearl Diver, Apothecary, Ambassador, Death Cart, Ironmonger, Moneylender, Trader, Apprentice, Count

Very interesting board here for sure. I must be losing my touch with Ambassador. I go for an Apothecary deck and he aims for something simpler, and we both get our decks under control. The situation seems so fragile to me that I think the first person to green will get swamped in junk and lose the game, so when I see him get a Province I take that as a cue to build and attack more, but it just doesn't work out.

Why? Well probably several reasons, according to the chat. Apprentice helps him a lot because a lot of the junk cards I want to pass him are Potions. I still only had one Ambassador and when I picked up a Death Cart just to get a Ruined Market (which I shouldn't have done but it worked out anyways) I couldn't attack reliably at all. It seems Apothecary isn't everything I thought it was and my lack of focus on attacking meant I just couldn't keep up and he runs away with it.

SCSN has a brilliant idea in the chat that I totally missed

Quote
<shecantsayno> I would amb death carts
<shecantsayno> if he doesn't reveal moat
<mazadin> i can honestly say i didnt even think about ambassadoring death carts
<mazadin> that's ... awesome

Unfortunately, Twitch seems to have lost the last hour of my stream, so the videos for the last two games are lost. Thanks, Twitch.

Game 5: florrat 12, AdamH 13
Game log
Kingdom Cards: Embargo, Scrying Pool, Market Square, Alchemist, Armory, Gardens, Pirate Ship, Worker's Village, Mountebank, Forge

This is another board I'm considering saving for Kingdom Design Challenge -- so interesting! There's a big engine to be built here with Potion cards to enable it and great payload. But the attack is Mountebank so you have to build it given the expensive trashing (Forge) and also worry about Armory/Gardens looming in the wings with Embargo to try and ruin your fun. Which way do you go here?

Well with a 5/2 I'm off to a huge advantage, right? I get to open Mountebank/Embargo so I think I want to go engine and I think I have a huge head start. Lucky for me, those two opening cards are at the bottom of my second shuffle so that puts me way behind again. I pick up an Armory and Embargo them before he gets a chance to get one, blink my eyes, and suddenly there are six Embargo tokens out on the board. We both pick up a Forge on the same shuffle but he gets to play his twice for good effect before I can really do anything with mine, and by that point we're both sort of swimming in junk cards.

So I decide I can't win the engine mirror and I have a couple of Armories at this point (with Gardens embargoed and Armories embargoed twice). I pivot into full points and he doesn't realize he has to stop emptying piles and go full green until about a half turn too late. I'm able to put enough pressure on him with my 5-point Gardens that I can squeak out a forced win emptying Embargoes and Curses. What a game, I could see it playing completely differently if we did this kingdom again.


Game 6: florrat 36, AdamH 38
Game log
Kingdom Cards: Great Hall, Moneylender, Golem, Cultist, Harvest, Journeyman, Merchant Guild, Rebuild, Soothsayer, Farmland

So there's literally nothing going on here except for Cultist and Rebuild. I play Cultist with nothing else, and he goes for Rebuild (opening Moneylender, which I found a little weird, but I don't think it mattered).

It was close, and I got to display my lack of counting skillz, but I won with the Cultists. Yippee.

This match happened before our little tiff in the SP math thread, but as I was reading through it I noticed MQ and SCSN saying a lot of strong statements and criticizing the way I think about things too much (during games 4-6). I'm not going to address that here, but there were a lot of statements they said in there with no backup that seem really questionable to me. Among them:

Quote
<shecantsayno> golem-rebuild isn't that awful

I'd really like to see them put their money where their mouth is on everything they way, but this in particular. There's no way Golem-Rebuild beats just Rebuild. No way.


I'm happy this match happened the way it did -- some really interesting decisions and I think I'm starting to make some better shuffle luck for myself. Thanks for the match, florrat!
« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 01:48:20 pm by AdamH »
Logged
Visit my blog for links to a whole bunch of Dominion content I've made.

DG

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4074
  • Respect: +2624
    • View Profile
Re: Game reports & discussion: C
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2014, 04:31:49 pm »
0

DG vs Gamesou

Some interesting games with fancy play here. The other two were washouts that I won't post up. I thought I could be on the tilt having lost the first two games and Gamesou pulling an excellent chapel (the only trashing) from a black market in game 3. I put together a very desperate golem deck to rescue that game and then everything turned round.

#1 http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140806/log.516d321ae4b082c74d7b345d.1407350613053.txt
#3 http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140806/log.516d321ae4b082c74d7b345d.1407352837009.txt
#5 http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140806/log.516d321ae4b082c74d7b345d.1407354021686.txt
#6 http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140806/log.516d321ae4b082c74d7b345d.1407356101663.txt
Logged
Pages: [1] 2  All
 

Page created in 0.104 seconds with 23 queries.