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Author Topic: Challenger/Champion Discussion  (Read 9615 times)

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A Drowned Kernel

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Challenger/Champion Discussion
« on: July 04, 2014, 11:00:52 pm »
0

This a thread for discussion of Stef's proposal here:

I have been playing around with an idea based on chess, and although I don't want to implement it right now, it might come in handy later.
So I just want to hear what you think about it.

We create two new positions, called "champion" and "challenger". While everyone else plays out a regular season, these two play a 20-game duel. The winner of the duel is the new champion, while the loser falls back into division A. The winner of division A gets to be the next challenger. (so it's the equivalent of having a 2-player division on top of A)

Advantages could be
* some special matches, extra fun to stream/watch
     maybe even with non-playing commentator(s)
* possibility to use specially selected sets
     I don't want designed sets, but would like random sets other people played and considered interesting.

and organisational:
* Introducing this system frees up some space at the top. This could come in handy if a lot of good players join / come back.
For example, even just having the option of introducing it would allow me to guarantee A.I. a spot in B when he wants to sit-out in season 2 and return in season 3, without announcing additional demotions up front.

The poll is non-binding, it's just a way to see what people think and determine how much support the idea has.

Personally, I think it's a fun idea, and would make for some great streaming.
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KingZog3

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Re: Challenger/Champion Discussion
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2014, 01:25:34 am »
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I'm in the dead last section of the league, but I still it would be fun to see the streams, and who ends up winning and losing the champion position. Then again, I can see people might just want a normal league section even at the top.
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silverspawn

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Re: Challenger/Champion Discussion
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2014, 09:57:04 am »
+2

dunno, is it fair if everyone votes? I'm not very fond of the idea, but well I'm not in the A leauge. If i were, I would very much dislike it, but as is I feel that the guys in the A league should decide.

liopoil

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Re: Challenger/Champion Discussion
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2014, 10:01:47 am »
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Mic's comment: "I'd rather not play one person for an entire season, would not mind doing a larger match between #s 1-2 at end of season though."

I still like the challenger/champion idea, but this would not be bad either.
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assemble_me

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Re: Challenger/Champion Discussion
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2014, 02:16:21 pm »
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I just wanted to say: I won't vote here. I'm excited to watch both, the usual league A matches or the challanger system on twitch or youtube, but I probably won't become a protagonist in these matches for a very, VERY long time ;).
So probably only the guys in A and B should vote here...?

/E: Seems like I'm mostly sharing Silverspawn's thoughts...
« Last Edit: July 05, 2014, 02:19:06 pm by assemble_me »
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Re: Challenger/Champion Discussion
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2014, 02:25:18 pm »
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Well, you can see who voted what, so Stef can make the decision however he likes — for example, everyone's vote counting, but division A people having more impact.
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Re: Challenger/Champion Discussion
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2014, 03:14:53 pm »
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dunno, is it fair if everyone votes? I'm not very fond of the idea, but well I'm not in the A leauge. If i were, I would very much dislike it, but as is I feel that the guys in the A league should decide.

I think its better if everybody has the chance to vote. You have a better decision base if 40 people vote, than max. 6 ppl are voting. If the Challenger/Champion-System gets installed, it should be for several seasons. And a 3-3, 3-2, 2-3 outcome of the vote has no value, especially if you see that the A League can have a completely different player pool with other opinions in, lets say, season 4. So, why not letting a C or D-player vote, who can potentially make it to that system in one of the later seasons? And as ADK said, its non-binding.

For my taste, i share the opinion of Mic Qsenoch. I personally prefer playing 5 matches a 6 games against different players a bit more than 20 games against the same person. But for sure I won't pass the chance to play for the crown if i surprisingly get the chance become League Champion 

Edit: @SCSN Challenger/Champion gets my vote if there is a chance to have more external commentary (like yours with Mic at Gokodom finals, my favourite stream so far) ;)
« Last Edit: July 05, 2014, 03:23:02 pm by hvb »
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silverspawn

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Re: Challenger/Champion Discussion
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2014, 03:33:41 pm »
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Quote
I think its better if everybody has the chance to vote. You have a better decision base if 40 people vote, than max. 6 ppl are voting. If the Challenger/Champion-System gets installed, it should be for several seasons. And a 3-3, 3-2, 2-3 outcome of the vote has no value, especially if you see that the A League can have a completely different player pool with other opinions in, lets say, season 4. So, why not letting a C or D-player vote, who can potentially make it to that system in one of the later seasons? And as ADK said, its non-binding.

... or you can just vote again. giving a D player as much voting power as an A power, just because he might be or not be in A at some point seems like a stretch, when the thing to be determined mostly affects A

-Stef-

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Re: Challenger/Champion Discussion
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2014, 07:23:29 am »
+1

This discussion seems to have about equal forces on both sides of the fence.

How about the alternative suggested by MicQ - play some additional games between #1 and #2 in A after the regular games of the season are played?

If we do so,
  • how many additional games (I'd say 6 or 10)
  • how to score them (I'd say just count all regular league games and these additional games without any special weights)
  • Would it be ok to finish these additional games after the next season starts if we can't find an appropriate schedule? (I hope so because one of the features of the league I really like is that you're never forced to play in a specific week if you can't)
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soulnet

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Re: Challenger/Champion Discussion
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2014, 08:22:18 am »
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That seems like a nice idea. Maybe people in A can just decide themselves every season. After all, it won't affect anyone else.
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AdamH

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Re: Challenger/Champion Discussion
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2014, 08:38:25 am »
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This discussion seems to have about equal forces on both sides of the fence.

How about the alternative suggested by MicQ - play some additional games between #1 and #2 in A after the regular games of the season are played?

If we do so,
  • how many additional games (I'd say 6 or 10)
  • how to score them (I'd say just count all regular league games and these additional games without any special weights)
  • Would it be ok to finish these additional games after the next season starts if we can't find an appropriate schedule? (I hope so because one of the features of the league I really like is that you're never forced to play in a specific week if you can't)

You could just have a week or two in between seasons and have the top two people in League A play a few games for-funsies. It doesn't have to be a part of the league or scoring, but you could unofficially call the winner of that one match the  "league champion" for that season. FWIW, I voted no in this poll and I would be all for something like this. Imagine streaming that match or having some live commentary on it...
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Monsieur X

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Re: Challenger/Champion Discussion
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2014, 09:48:52 am »
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That can be a good idea. I  think the number one of the league can have some advantage (+1 point? +1.5 point?) before begining the additional games (10games?)
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Re: Challenger/Champion Discussion
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2014, 10:05:08 am »
+1

Apparantly my suggestion wasn't clear, or you just both decided to ignore it :)

My suggestion was: let the #1 keep whatever lead he has over #2, and play 6 more games.
So in theory if you win the regular part of the league with >6 games difference, you already won

@adam: off course we can always play for funsies, but this discussion is about adding some 'official' part to the league.
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AdamH

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Re: Challenger/Champion Discussion
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2014, 10:24:59 am »
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Apparantly my suggestion wasn't clear, or you just both decided to ignore it :)

My suggestion was: let the #1 keep whatever lead he has over #2, and play 6 more games.
So in theory if you win the regular part of the league with >6 games difference, you already won

@adam: off course we can always play for funsies, but this discussion is about adding some 'official' part to the league.

I didn't see a post by MQ in this thread, that's why it wasn't clear to me.

I'd be behind something like that... I guess whether it's official or not isn't such a big deal to me, but this kind of thing seems kind of elegant and it works for having "one big stream" or "one big match." I like the format though, it's like the ELIMINATOR challenge at the end of American Gladiators!
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theblankman

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Re: Challenger/Champion Discussion
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2014, 02:17:32 pm »
+2

Whether it's for fun or as an official part of the league, I found this part particularly interesting:
Quote
I don't want designed sets, but would like random sets other people played and considered interesting.
I've certainly had some kingdoms down in C where my opponent and I both wanted to know how stronger players would approach it.  The discussion threads are great for that, but it would be also be fun to see them actually played out.  Perhaps the organizers could pick kingdoms that generated buzz in the discussion threads, if necessary make a poll to pick 6, and then the top two players would use those for their final match?  This could be done regardless if the final match affects standings or is just for bragging rights. 
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Re: Challenger/Champion Discussion
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2014, 10:16:59 am »
+2

I would prefer that they not play on special sets if this happened, and this would affect my interest in watching.  Both players will have gotten to division A by excelling on a mixture of boring and interesting boards, the better between the two should be determined based on a similar mixture.
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Re: Challenger/Champion Discussion
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2014, 01:45:30 pm »
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I would prefer that they not play on special sets if this happened, and this would affect my interest in watching.  Both players will have gotten to division A by excelling on a mixture of boring and interesting boards, the better between the two should be determined based on a similar mixture.
I think it's still an open question whether this match would be to affect standings or simply be for everyone's entertainment and education. 
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Challenger/Champion Discussion
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2014, 11:40:46 am »
+1

If this ever happens, my preference is to play full random sets.
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KingZog3

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Re: Challenger/Champion Discussion
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2014, 02:52:32 pm »
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If this ever happens, my preference is to play full random sets.

Just because you'd be the one playing the games doesn't mean our entertainment is any less important. What if a boring board comes up? Huh? What then?
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silverspawn

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Re: Challenger/Champion Discussion
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2014, 02:59:01 pm »
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If this ever happens, my preference is to play full random sets.

Just because you'd be the one playing the games doesn't mean our entertainment is any less important. What if a boring board comes up? Huh? What then?
I also prefer random. It doesn't have to be full random, but I don't like designed sets in a tournament. How about something like: randomize 5 sets, let the viewers vote, play the one with most votes?

SCSN

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Re: Challenger/Champion Discussion
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2014, 02:59:36 pm »
+2

Mic's favorite games are those everybody else considers boring; every morning he's pissed at his alarm for ending his dream during the final turn of a IGG mirror.
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Re: Challenger/Champion Discussion
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2014, 03:06:06 pm »
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I have several sets during the matches I played that I'd like to see played by people like MQ and Stef -- they were randomly generated but are guaranteed to be interesting.

There seem to be several ideas for what to do, also just letting MQ and Stef choose is a good idea. I smell a poll coming.
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Challenger/Champion Discussion
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2014, 11:47:30 am »
+2

If this ever happens, my preference is to play full random sets.

Just because you'd be the one playing the games doesn't mean our entertainment is any less important. What if a boring board comes up? Huh? What then?

I was just expressing my preference. This seems like the thread to do it. I'm not calling any shots, obviously.

I think there's a pretty wide range of what people consider interesting. And having played and looked at a decent amount of designed kingdoms, I find they don't cover that entire range very well.

I am not confident in selection from among random kingdoms either, but it's something new to try.

Your entertainment is way less important than my enjoyment of the match. It's time you adopted the proper Mic Qsenoch centered view of life.

And yes, IGG mirrors are the best.
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KingZog3

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Re: Challenger/Champion Discussion
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2014, 12:02:33 pm »
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I was only joking. My entertainment is the least of anyone's concerns.
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Challenger/Champion Discussion
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2014, 12:12:49 pm »
+3

I was only joking. My entertainment is the least of anyone's concerns.

Text on the internet got me again!
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