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[ddubois]

With this board:
Apprentice, Cutpurse, Gardens, Library, Merchant Ship, Philosopher's Stone, Potion, Silk Road, Venture, Woodcutter, and Worker's Village

I had this game:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/08/game-20111208-195310-f340afed.html

My opponent tried to do a vil/draw strategy on a board that clearly, IMHO, screams for a green strategy.  But I'm not very adept at these garden strategies, and would like to ask the forum: When should I have started greening?  I waited pretty long, probably too long.  I waited for him to buy a Prov first, and then I waited further for my re-shuffle, hoping that doing so would get me some double garden turns.  It worked out, but I suspect the optimal play is to start greener earlier.  How much earlier?

I think the fact that I didn't need to dip into Estates when tapering down to the end of the game probably indicates I valued ramping up my buy power too much.  I'm always worried that I'll finish two piles and then stall, so I think I tend to ramp buy power too much unless there's a card gainer like Ironworks.  When is a garden deck typically supposed to goldfish?

Also, I may have overvalued Venture here.  I really like how they can skip past a bunch of green cards late game, but its possible more Worker's Village and more aggressive copper buying was the correct strategy.

Last, it's possible I'm not supposed to buy that one Prov that I did.

[Geronimoo]

This is something the simulator can tell you pretty accurately: start greening once you have $19 in your deck. Most of the time this comes down to one Gold, but very often the bots will start greening without a Gold and win easily!!

I tested against a Library bot that races to 8 Provinces. It gets crushed by the Gardens bot about 9 to 1. A strategy involving Apprentice can speed up the game considerably trashing Provinces, but the simulator can't handle that strategy.

Here are the bots if you want to try it yourself:

Code: [Select]

<player name="Gardens/Silk Road" author="Geronimoo" description="http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=1142.0;topicseen#msg18265">
 <type name="BigMoney"/>
 <type name="UserCreated"/>
 <type name="Province"/>
 <type name="Bot"/>
 <type name="TwoPlayer"/>
 <type name="Competitive"/>
   <buy name="Gardens">
      <condition>
         <left type="getTotalMoney"/>
         <operator type="greaterThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="18.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Silk_Road">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInSupply" attribute="Gardens"/>
         <operator type="equalTo" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Estate">
      <condition>
         <left type="gainsNeededToEndGame"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="5.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Gold"/>
   <buy name="Worker$s_Village">
      <condition>
         <left type="countAvailableMoney"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="5.0"/>
      </condition>
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Worker$s_Village"/>
         <operator type="equalTo" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Woodcutter">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Woodcutter"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="2.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Woodcutter">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Woodcutter"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="countAllCardsInDeck"/>
         <extra_operation type="divideBy" attribute="6.0" />
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Woodcutter">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Woodcutter"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="countCardTypeInDeck" attribute="Village"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Worker$s_Village"/>
   <buy name="Silver"/>
   <buy name="Copper"/>
</player>


Code: [Select]

<player name="Library race to 8 Provinces" author="Geronimoo" description="http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=1142.0;topicseen#msg18265">
 <type name="SingleCard"/>
 <type name="BigMoney"/>
 <type name="UserCreated"/>
 <type name="Province"/>
 <type name="Bot"/>
 <type name="TwoPlayer"/>
 <type name="Competitive"/>
   <buy name="Province">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Gold"/>
         <operator type="greaterThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="2.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Duchy">
      <condition>
         <left type="gainsNeededToEndGame"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="2.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Estate">
      <condition>
         <left type="gainsNeededToEndGame"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="2.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Gold"/>
   <buy name="Library">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Library"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="countAllCardsInDeck"/>
         <extra_operation type="divideBy" attribute="5.0" />
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Silver"/>
</player>


[ddubois]

There's something to be said though for the psychological element of it though, right?  I mean, ideally you want your opponent to commit to prov engine/buying, before you reveal your strategy, yes?  If you start buying gardens too early, then it gives them the opportunity to audible into a garden strategy and start stealing them from you.  You want him to get into a deck state where if he buys a gardens it's not only not as good in his deck as it is in yours, but also impairs him finishing his provs.

[Geronimoo]

If you open Worker's Village/Woodcutter with Gardens on the board your opponent will already know your strategy (unless he's a n00b). And if he transitions to a Gardens strategy as well, it's even more important to start greening as fast as possible.

[ehunt]

how does silk road rush with woodcutters and estates do here? if there weren't gardens, this might be dominant, no?

[kn1tt3r]

Since it's very comparable to a gardens rush, it should also be dominant.