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[popsofctown]

I put Cache out the other day, my girlfriend said it looked worthless.  I was like, yeah.... it kind of is worthless.

I like cards positioned on a humble part of the power curve, but I struggle to find redeeming features to Cache.  When I play it in a slog it often feels like a mistake, usually there is some other 5$ card that is motivating the slog, like a Garden's Market or a Duke's Duchy.  Watchtower and Trader both make Cache useable, but they both do so in a way that's like, "ignore the inherent qualities of Cache because of this combo", it hardly makes the card feel well designed. 

It's not to say I've never bought it, but I usually regret it. 

When I try to think of things to try to do with it, the best idea I can come up with is Ambassadoring it in a Goons game where the treasure is like curses.  But coming up with a way to make someone gain it as an attack doesn't make me feel like it's a well designed card.

What's good about Cache?

[KingZog3]

I totally buy it with most Alt VP strategies. Duke/Ducky, Gardens, Silk Road. It gives  the Gold you need and Coppers aren't bad in those deck. Otherwise it's not that useful a card.

[silverspawn]

i find cache good whenever
-> copper is a good card (gardens, really awful slogs)
-> 5$ in 3 cards is good enough; in this case you buy it when you would also buy masterpiece for 5$
-> you have trader in hand
-> you have watchtower in hand

overall, I think dominion would be a better game without cache. it had it's role, but now we got masterpiece, which just does it better. the trader/watchtower thing is cute, but eh.

[JW]

It can be useful when there is an engine with trash for benefit as the only +buy. Spice merchant might be the only +buy and you're out of treasure, for example.

[HiveMindEmulator]

I don't think you ever want a lot of Caches, but there are good times to buy them. In Duke games you still get at least 1, maybe 2 Caches before diving into Duchies. In big money games that depend heavily on Gold and don't mind Copper, it's good to buy with $5 if you can't stand another terminal. And if you need trash targets for Trade Route/Forager/Spice Merchant, it gets 2 in 1 buy.

[soulnet]

Apothecary does not mind the extra Coppers, and $5 for $5 is a decent economy boost. Almost like a cheaper Platinum.

Also, add Moneylender and especially Mercenary to the list of things that require fodder.

[DG]

In design terms, treasures don't need to be strong. They only have to be better than silver and they get bought. This is the case with stash, venture, and cache. As much as we'd like to fill our decks with exciting actions we know it doesn't always work.  Counterfeit, talisman, quarry, loan, and ill gotten gains can all in fact be worse than silver.

How interesting are the two coppers gained with cache? Not very exciting but players aren't very excited by actions like explorer that gain treasure either.

[silvern]

I'm rather surprised that people are hating on Cache of all things. I mean, yes, it's pretty weak the vast majority of the time, but there are FAR more pointless cards. (Pearl Diver, anyone?)

[Awaclus]

I'm rather surprised that people are hating on Cache of all things. I mean, yes, it's pretty weak the vast majority of the time, but there are FAR more pointless cards. (Pearl Diver, anyone?)

Pearl Diver is cool!

[prom_vrt]

i find cache good whenever
-> copper is a good card (gardens, really awful slogs)
-> 5$ in 3 cards is good enough; in this case you buy it when you would also buy masterpiece for 5$
-> you have trader in hand
-> you have watchtower in hand

overall, I think dominion would be a better game without cache. it had it's role, but now we got masterpiece, which just does it better. the trader/watchtower thing is cute, but eh.

Well for me in engine building there're almost always better 5$ and even with Watchtower orTrader in hand I tend to buy those 5$ instead of Cache to keep the engine going. For me the only time Cache is viable is for Garden...

I'm rather surprised that people are hating on Cache of all things. I mean, yes, it's pretty weak the vast majority of the time, but there are FAR more pointless cards. (Pearl Diver, anyone?)

Pearl Diver is cool!

Pearl Diver is not a great card but it's cantrip property allows it to be spammable if there're 2$ and some buys left since it still gives some advantage, but surely not dominant strategy.

[amalloy]

Cache can be a fun way to gain fuel for a Mercenary, when you're nice and trim but want to keep attacking, if there is a scarcity of +buy.

[NoMoreFun]

Cache doesn't need to be a stack of 10; it would have been slightly different, but a single card saying "When you would gain this, instead gain a Gold and 2 Coppers" as a "supply pile" would have largely had the same effect, and left enough room for another card.

Masterpiece could also have been like that.

[NoMoreFun]

Cache would have been amazing to confuse newbies - "wait, I get a Gold AND 2 Coppers for less than a Gold?"
Hinterlands came too late though.

[Awaclus]

Cache doesn't need to be a stack of 10; it would have been slightly different, but a single card saying "When you would gain this, instead gain a Gold and 2 Coppers" as a "supply pile" would have largely had the same effect, and left enough room for another card.

Masterpiece could also have been like that.

I have piled out Masterpiece, though.

[NoMoreFun]

Cache doesn't need to be a stack of 10; it would have been slightly different, but a single card saying "When you would gain this, instead gain a Gold and 2 Coppers" as a "supply pile" would have largely had the same effect, and left enough room for another card.

Masterpiece could also have been like that.

I have piled out Masterpiece, though.

I've piled out Cache; it's still a shame that the space wasn't used more economically so we could have more cards.

[silverspawn]

I'm rather surprised that people are hating on Cache of all things. I mean, yes, it's pretty weak the vast majority of the time, but there are FAR more pointless cards. (Pearl Diver, anyone?)

I'm not hating... and yea there are more pointless cards. I'd also say dominion would be a better game without pearl driver, or duchess. But none of them is a big deal, they're just kind of there doing nothing...

[brokoli]

I'm rather surprised that people are hating on Cache of all things. I mean, yes, it's pretty weak the vast majority of the time, but there are FAR more pointless cards. (Pearl Diver, anyone?)

I'm not hating... and yea there are more pointless cards. I'd also say dominion would be a better game without pearl driver, or duchess. But none of them is a big deal, they're just kind of there doing nothing...

I don't think so. Pearl diver or Duchess doesn't add many things to the game or doesn't make your kingdom analysis different than it would be without them. But it doesn't matter if all 10 kingdom cards don't play a role. I like the subtleties of these cards, and I'm glad they exist because they increase the proportion of slog cards (Cache, Duchess) or cantrips (Pearl diver) and they decrease the number of insane engine-combo kingdoms.

[pacovf]

I'd also say dominion would be a better game without pearl driver

Luckily, Donald X. is of the same opinion as you!

....I'll see myself to the corner.

[silverspawn]

I don't think so. Pearl diver or Duchess doesn't add many things to the game or doesn't make your kingdom analysis different than it would be without them. But it doesn't matter if all 10 kingdom cards don't play a role. I like the subtleties of these cards, and I'm glad they exist because they increase the proportion of slog cards (Cache, Duchess) or cantrips (Pearl diver) and they decrease the number of insane engine-combo kingdoms.

sure but you should never think of it like cards just disappear. there were always some cards who worked okay, but had to make room for better cards. for example, I recall a card that said "+1 action, discard 2 cards, name 2 cards, dig for 2 cards that arent the named cards, putting them into your hand." That worked fine, it just wasn't exciting enough. If you remove a card like pearl driver, it would be replaced by one of those (in case of pearl driver probably by another cantrip, but you get my point)

[pacovf]

+1 Card
+1 Action

Look at the bottom card of your deck. You may put it on top of a tee and hit long.

[Holger]

In design terms, treasures don't need to be strong. They only have to be better than silver and they get bought. This is the case with stash, venture, and cache. As much as we'd like to fill our decks with exciting actions we know it doesn't always work.  Counterfeit, talisman, quarry, loan, and ill gotten gains can all in fact be worse than silver.

But Cache usually isn't better than Silver either. In BM games, buying Cache instead of Silver makes it harder to get the $1.6 per card that you need for Provinces (let alone Colonies); and in engines, you usually don't want that many Treasure cards either.
The only kingdom Treasure that's "strictly better"* than Silver is Stash, I think (Venture might not find a Treasure card in the deck).

*ignoring Feodum, of course

[amalloy]

In design terms, treasures don't need to be strong. They only have to be better than silver and they get bought. This is the case with stash, venture, and cache. As much as we'd like to fill our decks with exciting actions we know it doesn't always work.  Counterfeit, talisman, quarry, loan, and ill gotten gains can all in fact be worse than silver.

But Cache usually isn't better than Silver either. In BM games, buying Cache instead of Silver makes it harder to get the $1.6 per card that you need for Provinces (let alone Colonies); and in engines, you usually don't want that many Treasure cards either.
The only kingdom Treasure that's "strictly better"* than Silver is Stash, I think (Venture might not find a Treasure card in the deck).

*ignoring Feodum, of course

Ignoring Feodum isn't enough, even if you ignore all cards that care about the names and costs of cards (Menagerie, Forge, etc). Stash also has a different back, meaning your opponent can tell when you have one in hand, or on top of your deck, which can enable him to make better decisions: for example, what to discard for your Advisor, when to play his Swindler, and so on.

[LastFootnote]

In design terms, treasures don't need to be strong. They only have to be better than silver and they get bought. This is the case with stash, venture, and cache. As much as we'd like to fill our decks with exciting actions we know it doesn't always work.  Counterfeit, talisman, quarry, loan, and ill gotten gains can all in fact be worse than silver.

But Cache usually isn't better than Silver either. In BM games, buying Cache instead of Silver makes it harder to get the $1.6 per card that you need for Provinces (let alone Colonies); and in engines, you usually don't want that many Treasure cards either.
The only kingdom Treasure that's "strictly better"* than Silver is Stash, I think (Venture might not find a Treasure card in the deck).

*ignoring Feodum, of course

This isn't actually true, though. In general, buying Cache in a BM deck will help you buy Provinces and—importantly—Duchies. Cache combos with sifters, which Hinterlands is chock full of. In this regard, it is better than Masterpiece.

Also, Royal Seal is strictly better than Silver, barring cost and name-specific stuff. So is Harem.

[Dsell]

I read the first several posts conflating Cache and Stash. Very, very confused for a bit there.

[amalloy]

In design terms, treasures don't need to be strong. They only have to be better than silver and they get bought. This is the case with stash, venture, and cache. As much as we'd like to fill our decks with exciting actions we know it doesn't always work.  Counterfeit, talisman, quarry, loan, and ill gotten gains can all in fact be worse than silver.

But Cache usually isn't better than Silver either. In BM games, buying Cache instead of Silver makes it harder to get the $1.6 per card that you need for Provinces (let alone Colonies); and in engines, you usually don't want that many Treasure cards either.
The only kingdom Treasure that's "strictly better"* than Silver is Stash, I think (Venture might not find a Treasure card in the deck).

*ignoring Feodum, of course

This isn't actually true, though. In general, buying Cache in a BM deck will help you buy Provinces and—importantly—Duchies. Cache combos with sifters, which Hinterlands is chock full of. In this regard, it is better than Masterpiece.

Also, Royal Seal is strictly better than Silver, barring cost and name-specific stuff. So is Harem.

I play Bureaucrat.