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Author Topic: Combo: Goons/Apothecary  (Read 3721 times)

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AJD

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Combo: Goons/Apothecary
« on: December 08, 2011, 09:05:19 pm »
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Obviously what Goons really wants is a Village engine of some kind: you get the most value out of your Goons by playing more than one at a time, since the number of VP pellets you can get per turn increases quadratically per the number of Goons played on that turn. But what if there are no Villages, and so you can't play multiple Goons per turn? Well, at least you want to get the maximum points out of each Goons you do play, right? But this involves using up all your buys, which usually involves filling your deck with undesirable cheap cards.

This is where Apothecary comes in. Apothecary fits into a Goons deck very neatly in several ways:
1 - Early in the game, when your deck is mostly Coppers, Apothecary will put a lot of Coppers in your hand each turn, bringing you closer to that all-important first Goons.
2 - Once you're using your Goons, you can use up your extra buys on Coppers with more or less impunity: if you have enough Apothecaries in your deck, you'll filter the extra Coppers out as you go and they'll only rarely seriously clog your progress. Moreover, keeping a lot of Coppers in your deck means that each Apothecary you play is likely to add to your buying power for the turn even into the late-game.
3 - An engine built on cheap Alchemy cards often wants a source of +buy, so you can buy those Apothecaries in say a $5P hand and still be able to get a Silver or Cellar or something else useful with the rest of your money; Goons provides that +buy.

<a href="http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/08/game-20111208-173455-e509bd35.html">Here's</a> a log of a Goons/Apothecary game I just played; I used both buys on every Goons turn I had, ending up with five Apothecaries and eleven Coppers (and would have had more if not for my Moneylender), whereas my opponent only averaged one and a half points per Goons play. Cellar was a key support card here in a way it isn't often in handsize-attack games; Cellar interacts with Apothecary beautifully, since Apothecary both increases handsize and gives you a look at what's coming up in your deck so you know whether or not you want to Cellar out some of those Coppers.

Related strategies: Goons / Counting House; Goons / Philosopher's Stone. Also Goons/Gardens, although if you're going heavily for Gardens it can be hard to make it to $6 frequently to get Goons.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2011, 01:29:31 am by AJD »
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Combo: Goons/Apothecary
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2011, 09:44:08 pm »
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This is indeed a cool combo, though I'm not sure why you got so many other cards in the example. with cellar around, I'd probably be tempted to open potion/cellar, maybe get a second early potion and skip the silvers and 4s entirely (in favor of more coppers). You'd get to the provinces much sooner that way I think.

4 provinces and 8 tokens in 15 turns: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/08/game-20111208-184315-b5267c9d.html
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AJD

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Re: Combo: Goons/Apothecary
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2011, 09:56:23 pm »
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This is indeed a cool combo, though I'm not sure why you got so many other cards in the example.

Well, because I'm not that good a player and don't have enough faith in my cool combo is why, I guess.  :)
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Combo: Goons/Apothecary
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2011, 12:51:21 am »
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Just tried it out in sim, this bot beats the Goons bot 61-37. The silver helps get to the goons, but it would probably be better with some sort of non-terminal helper like warehouse/cellar/wishing well/scheme, or anything really. Even replacing the silver with a few pearl divers ups it to 75-24.

Code: [Select]
<player name="Apothecary/Goons" author="HiveMindEmulator" description="http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=1141.0">
 <type name="Province"/>
 <type name="Combo"/>
 <type name="UserCreated"/>
 <type name="Bot"/>
 <type name="TwoPlayer"/>
   <buy name="Province"/>
   <buy name="Duchy">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInSupply" attribute="Province"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="4.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Estate">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInSupply" attribute="Province"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="2.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Goons">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Goons"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="2.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Apothecary"/>
   <buy name="Gold"/>
   <buy name="Potion">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Potion"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="1.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Silver">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Silver"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="1.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Potion">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Potion"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="2.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Copper"/>
</player>
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Geronimoo

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Re: Combo: Goons/Apothecary
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2011, 03:04:50 am »
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Finally a legitimate combo! The Apothecary really helps Goons letting it buy Coppers with impunity. I tweaked HiveMind's bot and now it completely demolishes the default Goons bot 90%-9%:

Code: [Select]
<player name="Apothecary/Goons" author="HiveMindEmulator/Geronimoo" description="http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=1141.0">
 <type name="Combo"/>
 <type name="Optimized"/>
 <type name="UserCreated"/>
 <type name="Province"/>
 <type name="Bot"/>
 <type name="Attacking"/>
 <type name="Competitive"/>
 <type name="TwoPlayer"/>
   <buy name="Province">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Goons"/>
         <operator type="greaterThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="2.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Duchy">
      <condition>
         <left type="gainsNeededToEndGame"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="4.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Estate">
      <condition>
         <left type="gainsNeededToEndGame"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="2.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Goons">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Goons"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Apothecary"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Apothecary"/>
   <buy name="Gold"/>
   <buy name="Potion">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Potion"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="2.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Silver">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Silver"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="1.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Copper">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInPlay" attribute="Goons"/>
         <operator type="greaterThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
</player>

This is without helpers like Cellar. So it's optimal to buy 1 Silver and 2 Potionsn, start greening when you have 3 Goons and only buy Coppers when you have a Goons in play
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Combo: Goons/Apothecary
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2011, 05:04:05 am »
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I posted this back in August: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=458.msg6250#msg6250

I stand by everything I said then. Apothecary is a great underrated card and I love it because it allows me get Coppers out of my deck without trashing them. Trashing is boring.
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