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Author Topic: Good "strategy" games  (Read 20767 times)

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eHalcyon

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Re: Good "strategy" games
« Reply #50 on: July 07, 2014, 06:21:21 pm »
+11

Time to start battleshipstrategy.com...
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soulnet

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Re: Good "strategy" games
« Reply #51 on: July 07, 2014, 06:31:11 pm »
0

I did not know that there were versions of Battleship that did not forbid placing boats adjacently. Of course, my remark about the extra information is only for the versions that do forbid it.

Regarding the oracle example: I agree with that, but I do not think it matters. You need to discover A and B. If A is more difficult, it is likely that you will ask the oracle for A. However, if there is no such oracle and (1) knowing B helps finding A more than knowing A helps finding B, it is better to search for B first. Of course, (1) is only true for the versions that forbid adjacency of boats.
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amalloy

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Re: Good "strategy" games
« Reply #52 on: July 07, 2014, 08:45:00 pm »
0

I did not know that there were versions of Battleship that did not forbid placing boats adjacently. Of course, my remark about the extra information is only for the versions that do forbid it.

Regarding the oracle example: I agree with that, but I do not think it matters. You need to discover A and B. If A is more difficult, it is likely that you will ask the oracle for A. However, if there is no such oracle and (1) knowing B helps finding A more than knowing A helps finding B, it is better to search for B first. Of course, (1) is only true for the versions that forbid adjacency of boats.

I've never heard of a version of Battleship that forbids you from placing ships adjacent to each other, and the top five or six Google hits for "battleship rule book" all allow it; the official Hasbro rulebook even uses that in its example placement. It seems like it would be quite a limitation.
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soulnet

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Re: Good "strategy" games
« Reply #53 on: July 07, 2014, 11:56:39 pm »
0

I've never heard of a version of Battleship that forbids you from placing ships adjacent to each other, and the top five or six Google hits for "battleship rule book" all allow it; the official Hasbro rulebook even uses that in its example placement. It seems like it would be quite a limitation.

Maybe the version popularized in Argentina has that rule. No idea when it came from or when I learned it.
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Kuildeous

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Re: Good "strategy" games
« Reply #54 on: July 08, 2014, 01:41:41 am »
+5

I've never heard of a version of Battleship that forbids you from placing ships adjacent to each other, and the top five or six Google hits for "battleship rule book" all allow it; the official Hasbro rulebook even uses that in its example placement. It seems like it would be quite a limitation.

Maybe the version popularized in Argentina has that rule. No idea when it came from or when I learned it.

It's an obscure rule. Additionally, if you place your battleship in Free Parking, you get $500.
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Awaclus

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Re: Good "strategy" games
« Reply #55 on: July 08, 2014, 01:57:51 am »
0

I've never heard of a version of Battleship that forbids you from placing ships adjacent to each other, and the top five or six Google hits for "battleship rule book" all allow it; the official Hasbro rulebook even uses that in its example placement. It seems like it would be quite a limitation.

Maybe the version popularized in Argentina has that rule. No idea when it came from or when I learned it.

I've played it with this rule, too.
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ipofanes

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Re: Good "strategy" games
« Reply #56 on: July 08, 2014, 04:44:27 am »
0

I've never heard of a version of Battleship that forbids you from placing ships adjacent to each other, and the top five or six Google hits for "battleship rule book" all allow it; the official Hasbro rulebook even uses that in its example placement. It seems like it would be quite a limitation.

Maybe the version popularized in Argentina has that rule. No idea when it came from or when I learned it.

I've played it with this rule, too.

German here, same as in Finland or Argentina.
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Lekkit

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Re: Good "strategy" games
« Reply #57 on: July 08, 2014, 04:45:47 am »
0

Sweden here. We're allowed to place them adjecent to each other.
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Teproc

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Re: Good "strategy" games
« Reply #58 on: July 08, 2014, 05:41:55 am »
0

Not in France. This is kind of like the free parking thing in Monopoly I guess, or does that exist everywhere ?
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pacovf

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Re: Good "strategy" games
« Reply #59 on: July 08, 2014, 06:15:47 am »
0

I've never heard of a version of Battleship that forbids you from placing ships adjacent to each other, and the top five or six Google hits for "battleship rule book" all allow it; the official Hasbro rulebook even uses that in its example placement. It seems like it would be quite a limitation.

Maybe the version popularized in Argentina has that rule. No idea when it came from or when I learned it.

I've played it with this rule, too.

German here, same as in Finland or Argentina.

In Spain, I've always played with that rule too, as has everyone I know, although we usually state it before we start the game just in case.
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KingZog3

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Re: Good "strategy" games
« Reply #60 on: July 08, 2014, 09:36:47 am »
0

I've never heard of a version of Battleship that forbids you from placing ships adjacent to each other, and the top five or six Google hits for "battleship rule book" all allow it; the official Hasbro rulebook even uses that in its example placement. It seems like it would be quite a limitation.

Maybe the version popularized in Argentina has that rule. No idea when it came from or when I learned it.

I've played it with this rule, too.

German here, same as in Finland or Argentina.

In Spain, I've always played with that rule too, as has everyone I know, although we usually state it before we start the game just in case.

But you lose the fun ability to mess with your opponents head! Hey, I just hit 6 in a row and didn't sink any boats!
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soulnet

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Re: Good "strategy" games
« Reply #61 on: July 08, 2014, 11:11:48 am »
0

It's an obscure rule.

Obscure? Isn't calling obscure to something you are not used to a little self-centered (maybe US-centered in this case), judging for the response of some Europeans later in this thread?
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Watno

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Re: Good "strategy" games
« Reply #62 on: July 08, 2014, 11:15:03 am »
0

I've never heard of Battleships allowing you to place ships adjacent to each other in Germany.
I remember discussions about diagonal adjacency being aloowed though.
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DG

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Re: Good "strategy" games
« Reply #63 on: July 08, 2014, 11:56:43 am »
0

The whole point of having ships in Battleship shapes, instead of individual squares, is that you can use the shapes in your decision making. With adjacent ships you lose some of that information and decision making. You also extend the game unnecessarily. How can that be a sensible rule?
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Watno

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Re: Good "strategy" games
« Reply #64 on: July 08, 2014, 12:00:25 pm »
+1

There is a point to Battleships?
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ipofanes

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Re: Good "strategy" games
« Reply #65 on: July 08, 2014, 01:03:01 pm »
0

There is a point to Battleships?

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Kuildeous

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Re: Good "strategy" games
« Reply #66 on: July 08, 2014, 04:54:46 pm »
0

But you lose the fun ability to mess with your opponents head! Hey, I just hit 6 in a row and didn't sink any boats!

Well, per the rules, you have to announce which ship was hit, so it's pretty obvious when two ships are adjacent to each other, which is why I would advise against that, as you run the risk of giving extra information. Unless you do want to jack with them, but that'll wear off when they sink two ships at nearly the same time.
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sudgy

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Re: Good "strategy" games
« Reply #67 on: July 08, 2014, 04:55:41 pm »
+1

But you lose the fun ability to mess with your opponents head! Hey, I just hit 6 in a row and didn't sink any boats!

Well, per the rules, you have to announce which ship was hit, so it's pretty obvious when two ships are adjacent to each other, which is why I would advise against that, as you run the risk of giving extra information. Unless you do want to jack with them, but that'll wear off when they sink two ships at nearly the same time.

That's a rule?  I've never played that.
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Teproc

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Re: Good "strategy" games
« Reply #68 on: July 08, 2014, 05:03:29 pm »
+1

But you lose the fun ability to mess with your opponents head! Hey, I just hit 6 in a row and didn't sink any boats!

Well, per the rules, you have to announce which ship was hit, so it's pretty obvious when two ships are adjacent to each other, which is why I would advise against that, as you run the risk of giving extra information. Unless you do want to jack with them, but that'll wear off when they sink two ships at nearly the same time.

It's becoming obvious to me that we are not talking about the same game. Announcing the ship when you're hit ? That's... like... it takes away 75% of the choices in the game, which are already pretty limited, so...
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amalloy

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Re: Good "strategy" games
« Reply #69 on: July 08, 2014, 06:03:07 pm »
+1

But you lose the fun ability to mess with your opponents head! Hey, I just hit 6 in a row and didn't sink any boats!

Well, per the rules, you have to announce which ship was hit, so it's pretty obvious when two ships are adjacent to each other, which is why I would advise against that, as you run the risk of giving extra information. Unless you do want to jack with them, but that'll wear off when they sink two ships at nearly the same time.

It's becoming obvious to me that we are not talking about the same game. Announcing the ship when you're hit ? That's... like... it takes away 75% of the choices in the game, which are already pretty limited, so...

Like Monopoly, I think Battleship is a game where people skim the rules once, and then play whatever rules they remember reading for decades. I'd be interested to see an actual rulebook that contains either of the rules "ships may not be adjacent" or "you must announce which ship was hit".
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Teproc

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Re: Good "strategy" games
« Reply #70 on: July 08, 2014, 06:08:25 pm »
0

Oh yeah, I totally buy that the non-adjacent rule is made up, that wouldn't surprise me in the least. Announcing which ship was hit seems insane though.
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Lekkit

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Re: Good "strategy" games
« Reply #71 on: July 08, 2014, 06:11:41 pm »
+3

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Awaclus

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Re: Good "strategy" games
« Reply #72 on: July 08, 2014, 06:12:23 pm »
+1

But you lose the fun ability to mess with your opponents head! Hey, I just hit 6 in a row and didn't sink any boats!

Well, per the rules, you have to announce which ship was hit, so it's pretty obvious when two ships are adjacent to each other, which is why I would advise against that, as you run the risk of giving extra information. Unless you do want to jack with them, but that'll wear off when they sink two ships at nearly the same time.

It's becoming obvious to me that we are not talking about the same game. Announcing the ship when you're hit ? That's... like... it takes away 75% of the choices in the game, which are already pretty limited, so...

Like Monopoly, I think Battleship is a game where people skim the rules once, and then play whatever rules they remember reading for decades. I'd be interested to see an actual rulebook that contains either of the rules "ships may not be adjacent" or "you must announce which ship was hit".

I have never even seen a Battleship rulebook.

EDIT: Now I have!
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amalloy

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Re: Good "strategy" games
« Reply #73 on: July 08, 2014, 06:13:48 pm »
0

http://www.hasbro.com/common/instruct/battleship.pdf

Hah. The very same rulebook I looked at to confirm that adjacent placement is allowed, but I only skimmed it, and missed the bit about announcing hits. How ironic.
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Teproc

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Re: Good "strategy" games
« Reply #74 on: July 08, 2014, 06:19:22 pm »
+4

Well the rules are bad, and they should feel bad.
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