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silverspawn

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collection of ideas
« on: July 02, 2014, 10:01:47 pm »
+1

untested ideas!

Quote
c4 - Action - ?
+1 Action
Choose one: +1 Card; or look through your discard pile, and put a card from it into your hand.

A little bit like scheme, a little bit like the card that searches for any card you want.

Quote
c10 - Action - 5$
Dig for a Victory card, putting it on top of your deck. You may put up to three revealed Treasure cards into your hand. Discard the rest.
sort of a less terrible Adventurer variant. you dig like this.

Quote
c11 - Action - 5$
+1 Card, +1 Action, +1$
---
When you buy this, set any number of cards from your hand and all Treasure cards in play aside. Discard them immediately after the next time you shuffle your deck.
A peddler+ with a pseudo-trash effect on-gain. Sort of a reverse mandarin.

Quote
c13 - Treasure - 5$
Worth 1$
+1 buy
---
While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a Silver.
A simple silver gainer. I really need some cards with +buy.

Quote
c14 - Action - 4$
Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck. Put the revealed c14's into your hand and discard the rest. You may play a c14 from your hand. Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing up to 1$ more per c14 you have in play.
One more attempt at a card that counts itself.

Quote
c15 - Treasure - 4$
+1 buy
If there are no Provinces missing from the supply, this is worth 3$. Otherwise, it's worth 1$.
Dunno if this idea is new, it probably isn't. The card is most similar to quarry, but it's different.

Quote
c16 - Action - Reaction - 4$
Trash two cards from your hand. Gain a card costing less than both of them combined.
---
When another player's card is trashed, you may discard this. If you do, +2 Cards.
A new remodel attempt. I'm hoping for a cute interaction/combo with knight attacks

request: cards that are dropped/moved to testing
Quote
Quote
c1 - Treasure - ??
Play this as if it were a Treasure card in Play that you choose. This is that card until it leaves play.
I already knew about Counterfeit, but I also saw this exact card in the outtakes. That's probably enough reason not to try it.

Quote
c2 - Action - ??
+1 Action
Look at the top X cards of your deck. Put one of them into your hand and discard the rest.
It's honestly just not original enough for my tastes...

Quote
c3 - Action - 2$
+1 Card
+1 Action
You may put your deck into your discard pile
causes too many reshuffles IRL, and not really interesting either.

Quote
c5 - Action - 4$
You may play a c5 from your hand
+1$ per c5 in Play.
too similar too fools gold

Quote
c7 - Action - 5$
Reveal your hand. +1$ per non-Treasure card in it.
this might not be terrible, but the usage seems narrow, and you can already do similar things with discard for $ -> redraw. it just seems like a less interesting take on the same idea.

Quote
c8 - Action - 4$
+4$
+1 buy
Each other player may trash 2 cards from his hand and gain a card costing less than both of them combined, but no less than 0$
morphed into c16

Quote
c12 - Victory - Reaction - 3$/4$
2VP
---
When you gain a card costing 0$, you may discard this. If you do, gain a Prayer from the Prayer pile.
I want to like it... but I don't see it working, except in slogs.

Quote
c6 - Action - 5$
Reveal your hand. +1 card per differently priced card in it.
-> testing

Quote
c9 - Action - 2$
+1 Card
+1 Action
Set a card from your hand aside. Discard it immediately after the next time you shuffle your deck.
-> testing

« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 12:45:26 pm by silverspawn »
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KingZog3

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Re: a bunch of loose and untested ideas...
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2014, 12:37:17 am »
+1

c1 is funny, but I doubt it could be a card. There is already Cache which is a $5 Gold. It's not strong, and the copper gaining is either helpful, or easier to deal with. This can whiff badly.

c2 has been proposed before. Isn't this the while Demonic Tutor thing from Magic? I've seen this at 3 cards, 4 cards, even searching for a specific card. Don't feel like finding the threads with them though.

c3. You say this as if Chancellor just came out :P It's super weak. Chancellor has $2 on it, which is mostly the reason it's even bought in the first place since it's effect isn't very helpful most of the time.

c4. This could be interesting. a To-hand Scavenger. I imagine it's actually really good. It's like Scheme, and I'd say it should be $3 at least.

c5. I'm sure I've seen this idea before. For sure I've seen it with Victory cards, worth more for each copy of itself in your deck. I'd have an opinion, but it's getting late.
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silverspawn

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Re: a bunch of loose and untested ideas...
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2014, 12:44:09 am »
0

Quote
c3. You say this as if Chancellor just came out :P It's super weak. Chancellor has $2 on it, which is mostly the reason it's even bought in the first place since it's effect isn't very helpful most of the time.
yea but, a 3$ has to compete with silver. a 2$ doesn't have to compete with anything. I actually don't think it's weak at all, it's definitely better than Pearl Driver. I worry more about the excitingnessnessness...

Quote
but I doubt it could be a card.
I do too...

Quote
c2 has been proposed before.
yes, yes, i know. that's why I didn't specify it. that doesn't answer whether it's actually a good card in any of its forms.

Quote
c5. I'm sure I've seen this idea before. For sure I've seen it with Victory cards, worth more for each copy of itself in your deck. I'd have an opinion, but it's getting late.
sleep tight  :P
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liopoil

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Re: a bunch of loose and untested ideas...
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2014, 08:28:15 am »
+1

Cantrip chancelllor is probably on the upper half of two-costs. And now it REALLY combos with counting house
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Witherweaver

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Re: a bunch of loose and untested ideas...
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2014, 10:19:39 am »
0

I'd echo that C4 seems really good. If it whiffs it's just a Cantrip, but if you're building up an engine it could help a lot to play the cards you just bought.  I have a hunch that top-decking is something that is undervalued, and this is like better than topdecking.
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silverspawn

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Re: a bunch of loose and untested ideas...
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2014, 11:10:32 am »
0

good as in strong or as in interesting? if it's strong, that's not really worth much
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Witherweaver

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Re: a bunch of loose and untested ideas...
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2014, 11:13:18 am »
+1

good as in strong or as in interesting? if it's strong, that's not really worth much

I meant strong.  I think it's interesting, as well, for versatility reasons. 
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soulnet

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Re: a bunch of loose and untested ideas...
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2014, 06:43:19 pm »
+1

c5 is extremely similar to Fool's Gold in practice. It has a bit more explosive potential, but it is terminal so it does not go well with BM-terminal draw the way Fool's Gold is. I feel like it should be a treasure. Anything that just produces money should be a Treasure (I guess Merchant Ship is the only non-Treasure that only gives you money, but also it is a Duration and a Treasure/Duration was probably not worth it the additional FAQ). However,if you make it a Treasure, it would be even closer to Fool's Gold.
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Awaclus

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Re: a bunch of loose and untested ideas...
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2014, 07:49:08 pm »
+1

c5 is extremely similar to Fool's Gold in practice. It has a bit more explosive potential, but it is terminal so it does not go well with BM-terminal draw the way Fool's Gold is. I feel like it should be a treasure. Anything that just produces money should be a Treasure (I guess Merchant Ship is the only non-Treasure that only gives you money, but also it is a Duration and a Treasure/Duration was probably not worth it the additional FAQ). However,if you make it a Treasure, it would be even closer to Fool's Gold.
There's also Harvest, and Death Cart is pretty close.
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Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

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soulnet

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Re: a bunch of loose and untested ideas...
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2014, 07:54:37 pm »
+1

Good points.  But I stand by my definition, those (together with Poor House) do not "just" give money, they actually do stuff.
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silverspawn

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Re: a bunch of loose and untested ideas...
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2014, 10:41:37 am »
0

added some more to the OP (the ones from the gunpowder thread). some more opinions would be nice. there's no hurt pride, if even one of those turns out to be a thing and the other 7 don't work, that's already a good thing. they're all just ideas.
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soulnet

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Re: a bunch of loose and untested ideas...
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2014, 10:56:18 am »
+1

c7 also feels similar to Poor House, in the sense that it would be good in more or less the same context. It has some differences, so it may be fine. It seems weak though.

I really like the penalty for c8. It is interesting. However, +$4, +1 Buys is dull, and I do not see it combining with the penalty at all. It may even be too good for BM. I would use the penalty as part of the action of a card. Like

+2 Cards
Trash two cards from your hand and gain a card costing less than the sum of their cost. If you did not gain a card, gain a Curse.

This seems a bit like Masq, but the card gaining could be good for semi-Forge late game. I would evaluate if you need the Curse, and whether you want less or exactly or up to.
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LastFootnote

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Re: a bunch of loose and untested ideas...
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2014, 11:45:40 am »
+2

Quote
c1 - Treasure - 5$
Play this as if it were a Treasure card in Play that you choose. This is that card until it leaves play.

The card that eventually became Counterfeit started out in Prosperity as just a Throne Room for Treasures. That's basically what this is except you can use any number of these to copy the same Treasure, which is nice. I think probably it should cost less. Like, $3. There's no guarantee it'll be worth more than $1, or even if it'll be worth anything at all.

The swinginess problem (especially with Platinum) may or may not be an issue. It's worth noting that Counterfeit solved it by making you trash the Treasure, making it better when it was at its worst (Copper) and worse when it was at its best (Platinum). Personally, I'm not sure this is different enough from Counterfeit to be interesting.

Quote
c2 - Action - ??
+1 Action
Look at the top X cards of your deck. Put one of them into your hand and discard the rest.

Donald tried so many versions of this. The ones in the Outtakes article all looked at 4 or more cards. It's possible that a version that looks at 3 cards could work. That feels useful, but not crazy. Probably such a card would be cheap (≤$4). Maybe it should put one of the other cards back on your deck? Don't know why, just a thought I had.

Quote
c3 - Action - 2$
+1 Card
+1 Action
You may put your deck into your discard pile.

The problem here is one of logistics. Cantrip Chancellor is just begging you to reshuffle several times during your turn. Play c3, put your deck into your discard pile. Play another one, shuffle, draw a card, put your deck into your discard pile. Play Smithy, shuffle, draw 3 cards.

I could maybe see a version that put your deck into your discard pile at the end of your Buy phase. Then I thought, having more than one of them is now moot, so maybe it should have some vanilla bonuses that weren't so spammable. Something like [+1 Action; +$2] at $5. Then I realized I had invented an (arguably worse) version of Royal Seal.

Quote
c4 - Action - ?
+1 Action
Choose one: +1 Card; or look through your discard pile, and put a card from it into your hand.

Eh, pretty similar to Scheme, but probably stronger in most cases? I don't really love the idea.

Quote
c6 - Action - 5$
Reveal your hand. +1 Card per differently priced card in it that's worth between 2$ and 6$

Doesn't really excite me. I'd try it without the cost bracket. Just, +1 Card per differently costed card in your hand. See how that works before nerfing it.

Quote
c7 - Action - 5$
Reveal your hand. +1$ per non-Treasure card in it.

Seems very similar to Secret Chamber. Except it stacks, and you can still play those Action cards afterward. But you need a Village for that. Well, it doesn't excite me, but it might work.

Quote
c8 - Action - 4$
+4$
+1 buy
Each other player may trash 2 cards from his hand and gain a card costing less than both of them combined or a curse.

How about, instead of a Curse, it's just "but not less than $0" so that they can gain a Copper instead? The Curse is just a kludgy way of saying, "Hey, you can't just trash 2 cards with this," but it still looks bad. Trashing two Coppers from hand to gain a Copper into your discard is still plenty weak.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 12:22:11 pm by LastFootnote »
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silverspawn

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Re: a bunch of loose and untested ideas...
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2014, 01:11:04 pm »
0

Quote
but not less than $0" so that they can gain a Copper instead?
you're right, I did add that part so you can't just trash 2 cards, and you're right, this is the better way to do it. I mostly thought about curses/ruins, but even there this version is better, because when curses are flying around there might be none left in the supply, which would just remove the "curse-penalty"

Quote
Maybe it should put one of the other cards back on your deck? Don't know why, just a thought I had.
If it does, it's just like Lookout, except you replace "trash one of them" with "put one if them into your hand"
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 01:33:17 pm by silverspawn »
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LastFootnote

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Re: a bunch of loose and untested ideas...
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2014, 01:39:18 pm »
+1

Quote
Maybe it should put one of the other cards back on your deck? Don't know why, just a thought I had.
If it does, it's just like Lookout, except you replace "trash one of them" with "put one if them into your hand"

Yeah, I realized that. Could be different enough in practice, though. I mean, Lookout's main feature is trashing.

Let me know if you want to talk about and/or push back on any of these other concepts. As always, sorry if I am too harsh.
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terminalCopper

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Re: a bunch of loose and untested ideas...
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2014, 04:51:38 am »
+1


c6 - Action - 5$
Reveal your hand. +1 Card per differently priced card in it that's worth between 2$ and 6$


The very one thing I really like here is the goal to have "big diversity in hand". This seems pretty new to me, and I think it can lead to very interesting games :)
However, I would change some details - most notably, I would make it a gainer, and remove the "between 2$ and 6$" clause. Example given:

"Reveal your hand. Gain a card costing up to the number of differently priced cards in it."

Furthermore, it has to be nonterminal; otherwise, you will have to play all your other nonterminals before it, and so, they will no more contribute to your number of differently priced cards, which is quite frustrating. Sure, villages can help you out, but a card that heavily depends on village support is badly designed.

The costs should be either $4 or $5 - hard to say without playtesting.



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pacovf

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Re: a bunch of loose and untested ideas...
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2014, 07:53:32 am »
+2


c6 - Action - 5$
Reveal your hand. +1 Card per differently priced card in it that's worth between 2$ and 6$


The very one thing I really like here is the goal to have "big diversity in hand". This seems pretty new to me, and I think it can lead to very interesting games :)
However, I would change some details - most notably, I would make it a gainer, and remove the "between 2$ and 6$" clause. Example given:

"Reveal your hand. Gain a card costing up to the number of differently priced cards in it."

Furthermore, it has to be nonterminal; otherwise, you will have to play all your other nonterminals before it, and so, they will no more contribute to your number of differently priced cards, which is quite frustrating. Sure, villages can help you out, but a card that heavily depends on village support is badly designed.

The costs should be either $4 or $5 - hard to say without playtesting.

...Horn of plenty?
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silverspawn

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Re: a bunch of loose and untested ideas...
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2014, 09:04:20 am »
0


c6 - Action - 5$
Reveal your hand. +1 Card per differently priced card in it that's worth between 2$ and 6$


The very one thing I really like here is the goal to have "big diversity in hand". This seems pretty new to me, and I think it can lead to very interesting games :)
However, I would change some details - most notably, I would make it a gainer, and remove the "between 2$ and 6$" clause. Example given:

"Reveal your hand. Gain a card costing up to the number of differently priced cards in it."

Furthermore, it has to be nonterminal; otherwise, you will have to play all your other nonterminals before it, and so, they will no more contribute to your number of differently priced cards, which is quite frustrating. Sure, villages can help you out, but a card that heavily depends on village support is badly designed.

The costs should be either $4 or $5 - hard to say without playtesting.

...Horn of plenty?
well horn of plenty looks at names, not at cost, but yea it's kinda similar. more importantly though, I already have a workshop variant, I'm most likely not going to have more than one. it's a terminal draw, and it can draw more than 3 cards, that's why it's at 5$.
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terminalCopper

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Re: a bunch of loose and untested ideas...
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2014, 03:34:53 pm »
+1

Consider this:

Code: [Select]
Horn-in-Hand, ACTION 5$
+Action
Reveal your hand. Gain a card costing up to the number of different cards you reveal.

Despite the obvious similarity, this card will certainly play completely differently from Horn-Of-Plenty, for it's a much more challenging task to keep different cards in hand than having them in play.

Even horn of plentys downside -it gains green cards only once- seems rather small to me because of the megaturn option. In comparison, a gainer referring to diversity in hand is clearly weaker, even more so, if you only look at different card costs. It would be an interesting nonterminal at 4$.

To emphasize the thing I really want to see in play: The most innovative part of Silverspawn's idea is not to seek for different card costs but the goal to have different cards in hand.

I already have a workshop variant, I'm most likely not going to have more than one.

Well, if you don't want a gainer, it's difficult to balance the card, as drawing 1 card is incredibly different from drawing 5. (Apprentice is way better balanced because the more cards you draw the more you will regret having trashed the card.)

Here's two ideas how to balance it:


Code: [Select]
CostVarietyTurnsMoatIntoHuntingGrounds, 4$, ACTION

+ 2 cards
You may reveal 5 cards with different costs. If you do:
+ 2 cards

Code: [Select]
CostVarietyTurnsPeddlerIntoGrandMarket, 5$, ACTION

+action
+card
+1$

You may reveal 5 cards with different costs. If you do:
+1$
+buy
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silverspawn

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Re: a bunch of loose and untested ideas...
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2014, 07:08:49 pm »
0

Quote
Well, if you don't want a gainer, it's difficult to balance the card, as drawing 1 card is incredibly different from drawing 5

certainly, but revealing two coppers (+2$) is also very different from revealing a village and a province (+2cards, +2actions), and tribute works too. +2 cards is very different from +2 cards, +1 action, and (the top half of) crusade works out well so far. having situational cards is pretty much the theme of my set.

Quote
+ 2 cards
You may reveal 5 cards with different costs. If you do:
+ 2 cards

well I guess I'm just not as pessimistic about the original version. but if it turns out to fail for whatever reason, I might try this/something like this. though my gut says that 5 different cards is asking too much, I'd probably try it with 4 first.

Quote
CostVarietyTurnsPeddlerIntoGrandMarket, 5$, ACTION
uh no I don't like this one. the success doesn't influence whether it works a second time, so it will most likely lead to turns where you play lots of them and none of them triggers. I can already feel that being frustrating.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 07:10:09 pm by silverspawn »
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silverspawn

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Re: collection of ideas
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2014, 12:38:12 pm »
0

I think I'll use this thread for all of my new ideas. when I'm either confident enough to try a card, or convinced that it doesn't work, I'll remove it from the OP

Quote
c9 - Action - 2$
+1 Card
+1 Action
Set a card from your hand aside. Discard it the next time you shuffle your deck.

any thoughts about this one?
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KingZog3

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Re: collection of ideas
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2014, 12:58:00 pm »
+2

Don't remove from the OP, just add a section for ideas that didn't cut it.
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Archetype

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Re: collection of ideas
« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2014, 01:45:06 pm »
+2

I've tested c2 at $3 while looking at the top 3 cards of the deck and it seems to work well.
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market squire

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Re: collection of ideas
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2014, 05:57:43 am »
+1

c2 with looking at 3 cards is another card that we tried in the German forums at $3, but then raised the cost to $4 (again, some years ago...). Depending on the deck variance, the card can be stronger than a Lab or just a useless cantrip. Today I'd say it mirrors Advisor. You want exactly the opposite kind of deck with it.

I think I'll use this thread for all of my new ideas. when I'm either confident enough to try a card, or convinced that it doesn't work, I'll remove it from the OP

Quote
c9 - Action - 2$
+1 Card
+1 Action
Set a card from your hand aside. Discard it the next time you shuffle your deck.

any thoughts about this one?
Nice idea. It compares best to Vagrant. Vagrant has a lower chance to hit a dead card (because he looks only at one and c9 normally looks at 5 cards). That's why I'd say in terms of getting through the deck, c9 is better. However, it is weakening your current turn because handsize is lowered while Vagrant gives you a dead card which you might use for discard effects/ tfb or stuff.
I think it is okay like this.

On the set-aside: You can just make the set-aside area for c9 be a "second discard pile" next to the normal one. The cards on that pile should also belong to the deck (as set aside cards normally do, e.g. Island, Prince).
That second discard pile might also be used for a completely new mechanic: Some cards can only be used every 2nd shuffle, some cards gain cards for the day after tomorrow etc. (Honestly, I am currently coming up with a Deckbuilding game with multiple discard piles in my mind. ;) )
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Awaclus

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Re: collection of ideas
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2014, 06:21:24 am »
0

c2 with looking at 3 cards is another card that we tried in the German forums at $3, but then raised the cost to $4 (again, some years ago...). Depending on the deck variance, the card can be stronger than a Lab or just a useless cantrip. Today I'd say it mirrors Advisor. You want exactly the opposite kind of deck with it.

I think I'll use this thread for all of my new ideas. when I'm either confident enough to try a card, or convinced that it doesn't work, I'll remove it from the OP

Quote
c9 - Action - 2$
+1 Card
+1 Action
Set a card from your hand aside. Discard it the next time you shuffle your deck.

any thoughts about this one?
Nice idea. It compares best to Vagrant. Vagrant has a lower chance to hit a dead card (because he looks only at one and c9 normally looks at 5 cards). That's why I'd say in terms of getting through the deck, c9 is better. However, it is weakening your current turn because handsize is lowered while Vagrant gives you a dead card which you might use for discard effects/ tfb or stuff.
I think it is okay like this.

On the set-aside: You can just make the set-aside area for c9 be a "second discard pile" next to the normal one. The cards on that pile should also belong to the deck (as set aside cards normally do, e.g. Island, Prince).
That second discard pile might also be used for a completely new mechanic: Some cards can only be used every 2nd shuffle, some cards gain cards for the day after tomorrow etc. (Honestly, I am currently coming up with a Deckbuilding game with multiple discard piles in my mind. ;) )
I have designed a deckbuilding game in which each player builds 4 separate decks with different roles simultaneously. It has not been playtested yet. And it never will be.
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Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

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