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Author Topic: Really bad card ideas  (Read 1850376 times)

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Holger

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #3050 on: October 09, 2014, 05:55:33 am »
0

The clause does mean that Hellscout whiffs less often if you combo with draw cards. Play Hellscout. If it whiffs, play a couple Peddlers or a Lab or Village-Smithy.  Now try Hellscout again.

Making it the perfect fix for Scout!
[...]

It'd still be quite weak, I think. :P Why not keep the "nuclear option" of all cards costing $0 for a round? It would strengthen Scout a little more but rarely be overpowered. I wonder if this could actually be an interesting mechanics to try on a card...
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eHalcyon

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #3051 on: October 09, 2014, 09:36:45 pm »
0

The clause does mean that Hellscout whiffs less often if you combo with draw cards. Play Hellscout. If it whiffs, play a couple Peddlers or a Lab or Village-Smithy.  Now try Hellscout again.

Making it the perfect fix for Scout!
[...]

It'd still be quite weak, I think. :P Why not keep the "nuclear option" of all cards costing $0 for a round? It would strengthen Scout a little more but rarely be overpowered. I wonder if this could actually be an interesting mechanics to try on a card...

As Awaclus pointed out, the new version would still let you gain a minimum of 1 Province or Colony on your turn for free.  And it just gets crazier with +Buy.  It would definitely be broken.

It might be viable to have a card that reduces costs by 2-4 (better than Bridge and Highway) that is lost if you play any more cards.  Just not "everything is free".
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 09:38:06 pm by eHalcyon »
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Dsell

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #3052 on: October 10, 2014, 12:45:17 am »
0

No no, I fixed it. Notice the bolded line. It's perfect now.
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Holger

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #3053 on: October 10, 2014, 04:53:46 am »
0

The clause does mean that Hellscout whiffs less often if you combo with draw cards. Play Hellscout. If it whiffs, play a couple Peddlers or a Lab or Village-Smithy.  Now try Hellscout again.

Making it the perfect fix for Scout!
[...]

It'd still be quite weak, I think. :P Why not keep the "nuclear option" of all cards costing $0 for a round? It would strengthen Scout a little more but rarely be overpowered. I wonder if this could actually be an interesting mechanics to try on a card...

As Awaclus pointed out, the new version would still let you gain a minimum of 1 Province or Colony on your turn for free.  And it just gets crazier with +Buy.  It would definitely be broken.

It might be viable to have a card that reduces costs by 2-4 (better than Bridge and Highway) that is lost if you play any more cards.  Just not "everything is free".

As I pointed out above, it wouldn't be clearly broken because (taken literally) the other players will also get the Province/Colony for free in their next turn, and they don't have to sacrifice an Action (and their buy phase) for it, so they can also gain Provinces from Workshop, Remodeling Copper etc., which the Hellscout player can't. Usually you'll only want to use the "free Province" option if you can end the game with it, or if you have more buys than your opponents have buys+gains in their next turn. It might still be broken because of the megaturn potential, but then it (almost) doesn't do you any good in previous turns if you have no green.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #3054 on: October 10, 2014, 01:08:40 pm »
0

The clause does mean that Hellscout whiffs less often if you combo with draw cards. Play Hellscout. If it whiffs, play a couple Peddlers or a Lab or Village-Smithy.  Now try Hellscout again.

Making it the perfect fix for Scout!
[...]

It'd still be quite weak, I think. :P Why not keep the "nuclear option" of all cards costing $0 for a round? It would strengthen Scout a little more but rarely be overpowered. I wonder if this could actually be an interesting mechanics to try on a card...

As Awaclus pointed out, the new version would still let you gain a minimum of 1 Province or Colony on your turn for free.  And it just gets crazier with +Buy.  It would definitely be broken.

It might be viable to have a card that reduces costs by 2-4 (better than Bridge and Highway) that is lost if you play any more cards.  Just not "everything is free".

As I pointed out above, it wouldn't be clearly broken because (taken literally) the other players will also get the Province/Colony for free in their next turn, and they don't have to sacrifice an Action (and their buy phase) for it, so they can also gain Provinces from Workshop, Remodeling Copper etc., which the Hellscout player can't. Usually you'll only want to use the "free Province" option if you can end the game with it, or if you have more buys than your opponents have buys+gains in their next turn. It might still be broken because of the megaturn potential, but then it (almost) doesn't do you any good in previous turns if you have no green.

Ah, forgot about that. But yes, it is too ridiculous as is with any way to get multiple +Buy.
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Tombolo

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #3055 on: October 20, 2014, 07:21:16 am »
0

Scout Regiment
$4 Action
+1 Action
Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Titans into your hand. Put the other cards on top of your deck in any order.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #3056 on: October 20, 2014, 11:32:47 am »
0

Scout Regiment
$4 Action
+1 Action
Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Titans into your hand. Put the other cards on top of your deck in any order.

Is this an SnK reference?
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Gherald

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #3057 on: October 22, 2014, 07:19:20 pm »
+10

Meh - $3 - Action
+1 Action
Look at the top card of your deck, then discard or maybe put it in your hand, or in the trash or whatever
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Minotaur

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #3058 on: October 22, 2014, 09:14:31 pm »
+7

Look Out!
Action
Cost: 3

Throw any number of cards from your hand in any direction.  The first player hit by any given card gains that card.  Any cards which do not hit anyone return to your hand.
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Sidsel

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #3059 on: October 23, 2014, 04:47:56 am »
0

Look Out!
Action
Cost: 3

Throw any number of cards from your hand in any direction.  The first player hit by any given card gains that card.  Any cards which do not hit anyone return to your hand.

Boomerang
Action
Cost: 3
After playing this, any cards trashed during your turn return to your hand at the end of your turn.

The cat came back
Action
Cost: 2
After playing this, any curse or copper trashed during your turn return to your hand at the end of your turn.

(Combos with fairgrounds if nothing else...)
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 05:36:06 am by Sidsel »
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Asper

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #3060 on: October 23, 2014, 08:02:02 am »
0

Hellscout

Action - $4

+1 Action

The cost of all cards is reduced to $0 until you play another card. Set aside your hand. Draw 4 cards, then put cards on top of your deck until there are no non-victory cards in your hand. Put the set aside cards in your hand. Trash this. Gain a card from the trash costing from $3 to $6. Put it in your hand unless you have drawn any victory cards this turn.
---------------------
The cost of this card cannot be reduced.

This seems like it's meant to play exactly like Scout, but with more tedious execution. However, it enables a mega turn in which you produce many +Buy and then play this. You play nothing else after and drain all the VP easily.  Intended loophole?

It also allows you to play infinite cards on your if none of the top 4 cards of your deck are victory cards.

It only allows to play itself again when it fails, doesn't it? It doesn't play any card, and doesn't draw any non-green non-Scout. There's no useful infinite-play possibility AFAICS.

Conspirators. Throne Rooms. The option to rearrange your top four cards as often as you want to enable an engine.
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Holger

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #3061 on: October 23, 2014, 09:45:11 am »
0

Hellscout

Action - $4

+1 Action

The cost of all cards is reduced to $0 until you play another card. Set aside your hand. Draw 4 cards, then put cards on top of your deck until there are no non-victory cards in your hand. Put the set aside cards in your hand. Trash this. Gain a card from the trash costing from $3 to $6. Put it in your hand unless you have drawn any victory cards this turn.
---------------------
The cost of this card cannot be reduced.

This seems like it's meant to play exactly like Scout, but with more tedious execution. However, it enables a mega turn in which you produce many +Buy and then play this. You play nothing else after and drain all the VP easily.  Intended loophole?

It also allows you to play infinite cards on your if none of the top 4 cards of your deck are victory cards.

It only allows to play itself again when it fails, doesn't it? It doesn't play any card, and doesn't draw any non-green non-Scout. There's no useful infinite-play possibility AFAICS.

Conspirators. Throne Rooms. The option to rearrange your top four cards as often as you want to enable an engine.

I don't see any infinite play with Conspirator, nor with Throne Room: TR-Hellscout gives an extra Action each time you play TR, but there's at most ten TR in your deck (plus ten BoM...). Apart from that, using your TR on any cantrip instead of Hellscout is superior when you have no VP cards left in your deck.

Rearranging the same top four cards infinitely often doesn't help you either. There's only finitely many card drawers that you can play inbetween to make Hellscout's reordering matter.
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Asper

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #3062 on: November 02, 2014, 05:28:19 am »
0

Hellscout

Action - $4

+1 Action

The cost of all cards is reduced to $0 until you play another card. Set aside your hand. Draw 4 cards, then put cards on top of your deck until there are no non-victory cards in your hand. Put the set aside cards in your hand. Trash this. Gain a card from the trash costing from $3 to $6. Put it in your hand unless you have drawn any victory cards this turn.
---------------------
The cost of this card cannot be reduced.

This seems like it's meant to play exactly like Scout, but with more tedious execution. However, it enables a mega turn in which you produce many +Buy and then play this. You play nothing else after and drain all the VP easily.  Intended loophole?

It also allows you to play infinite cards on your if none of the top 4 cards of your deck are victory cards.

It only allows to play itself again when it fails, doesn't it? It doesn't play any card, and doesn't draw any non-green non-Scout. There's no useful infinite-play possibility AFAICS.

Conspirators. Throne Rooms. The option to rearrange your top four cards as often as you want to enable an engine.

I don't see any infinite play with Conspirator, nor with Throne Room: TR-Hellscout gives an extra Action each time you play TR, but there's at most ten TR in your deck (plus ten BoM...). Apart from that, using your TR on any cantrip instead of Hellscout is superior when you have no VP cards left in your deck.

Rearranging the same top four cards infinitely often doesn't help you either. There's only finitely many card drawers that you can play inbetween to make Hellscout's reordering matter.

The question was whether there are useful applications of playing it unlimited times. As life is finite, playing it unlimited times is impossible regardless of Dominion. Therefore the only reasonable question is whether it can be useful to play it as many times as you want. The cards i listed have a benefit from it, though Throne Room arguably is worth it for the extra actions. Conspirators can be activated with only one Action Card in hand. And if you play something like Village/Smithy, being able to change your deck every time before you play a Smithy is definitely valuable. It's not like i said it would be broken, anyhow.
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silverspawn

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #3063 on: November 02, 2014, 09:44:34 am »
+1

Treasure - 5$
Worth 2$
--
While this is in Play, when you gain a card, gain a silver.

SLOG - Action - Looter - 4$
Take 100 VP tokens, trash your deck, then gain all coppers, curses, and ruins from the supply.

sudgy

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #3064 on: November 02, 2014, 12:21:23 pm »
0

Treasure - 5$
Worth 2$
--
While this is in Play, when you gain a card, gain a silver.

SLOG - Action - Looter - 4$
Take 100 VP tokens, trash your deck, then gain all coppers, curses, and ruins from the supply.

Hey, the first one would be an interesting idea, but maybe when you buy a card instead...

Also, I hope you know that the second one ends the game when you play it...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

silverspawn

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #3065 on: November 02, 2014, 01:01:08 pm »
0

Hey, the first one would be an interesting idea, but maybe when you buy a card instead...
blip

Also, I hope you know that the second one ends the game when you play it...
yes, that was the main joke

Holger

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #3066 on: November 04, 2014, 11:14:37 am »
0

Hellscout

Action - $4

+1 Action

The cost of all cards is reduced to $0 until you play another card. Set aside your hand. Draw 4 cards, then put cards on top of your deck until there are no non-victory cards in your hand. Put the set aside cards in your hand. Trash this. Gain a card from the trash costing from $3 to $6. Put it in your hand unless you have drawn any victory cards this turn.
---------------------
The cost of this card cannot be reduced.

This seems like it's meant to play exactly like Scout, but with more tedious execution. However, it enables a mega turn in which you produce many +Buy and then play this. You play nothing else after and drain all the VP easily.  Intended loophole?

It also allows you to play infinite cards on your if none of the top 4 cards of your deck are victory cards.

It only allows to play itself again when it fails, doesn't it? It doesn't play any card, and doesn't draw any non-green non-Scout. There's no useful infinite-play possibility AFAICS.

Conspirators. Throne Rooms. The option to rearrange your top four cards as often as you want to enable an engine.

I don't see any infinite play with Conspirator, nor with Throne Room: TR-Hellscout gives an extra Action each time you play TR, but there's at most ten TR in your deck (plus ten BoM...). Apart from that, using your TR on any cantrip instead of Hellscout is superior when you have no VP cards left in your deck.

Rearranging the same top four cards infinitely often doesn't help you either. There's only finitely many card drawers that you can play inbetween to make Hellscout's reordering matter.

The question was whether there are useful applications of playing it unlimited times. As life is finite, playing it unlimited times is impossible regardless of Dominion. Therefore the only reasonable question is whether it can be useful to play it as many times as you want. The cards i listed have a benefit from it, though Throne Room arguably is worth it for the extra actions. Conspirators can be activated with only one Action Card in hand. And if you play something like Village/Smithy, being able to change your deck every time before you play a Smithy is definitely valuable. It's not like i said it would be broken, anyhow.

I think you're confusing "unlimited" with "multiple". With Conspirator, it makes sense to play HS twice to activate it, but it makes no sense to play it any more times. Likewise, you can't play it more than ten times with TR since there's only ten TR's, you don't need to play it more than once before each Smithy etc.
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Minotaur

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #3067 on: November 04, 2014, 02:52:18 pm »
+4

Time to reboot the metacards from 40 pages back or whatever!

Metagovernor
Action
Cost: 4

+1 Action
Each player gains a Governor.  Yours goes in your hand.


Metamasterpiece
Treasure
Cost: $3+

You may overpay for this.  For each $ overpaid, gain a Masterpiece as if you had overpaid for it by the amount you overpaid for Metamasterpiece.

(Masterpiece is henceforth known as Metasilver)


Metatactician
Action
Cost: $4

+1 Action.
Discard your hand.  Gain a Tactician and a Curse in hand.
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Asper

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #3068 on: November 04, 2014, 06:02:57 pm »
0

Hellscout

Action - $4

+1 Action

The cost of all cards is reduced to $0 until you play another card. Set aside your hand. Draw 4 cards, then put cards on top of your deck until there are no non-victory cards in your hand. Put the set aside cards in your hand. Trash this. Gain a card from the trash costing from $3 to $6. Put it in your hand unless you have drawn any victory cards this turn.
---------------------
The cost of this card cannot be reduced.

This seems like it's meant to play exactly like Scout, but with more tedious execution. However, it enables a mega turn in which you produce many +Buy and then play this. You play nothing else after and drain all the VP easily.  Intended loophole?

It also allows you to play infinite cards on your if none of the top 4 cards of your deck are victory cards.

It only allows to play itself again when it fails, doesn't it? It doesn't play any card, and doesn't draw any non-green non-Scout. There's no useful infinite-play possibility AFAICS.

Conspirators. Throne Rooms. The option to rearrange your top four cards as often as you want to enable an engine.

I don't see any infinite play with Conspirator, nor with Throne Room: TR-Hellscout gives an extra Action each time you play TR, but there's at most ten TR in your deck (plus ten BoM...). Apart from that, using your TR on any cantrip instead of Hellscout is superior when you have no VP cards left in your deck.

Rearranging the same top four cards infinitely often doesn't help you either. There's only finitely many card drawers that you can play inbetween to make Hellscout's reordering matter.

The question was whether there are useful applications of playing it unlimited times. As life is finite, playing it unlimited times is impossible regardless of Dominion. Therefore the only reasonable question is whether it can be useful to play it as many times as you want. The cards i listed have a benefit from it, though Throne Room arguably is worth it for the extra actions. Conspirators can be activated with only one Action Card in hand. And if you play something like Village/Smithy, being able to change your deck every time before you play a Smithy is definitely valuable. It's not like i said it would be broken, anyhow.

I think you're confusing "unlimited" with "multiple". With Conspirator, it makes sense to play HS twice to activate it, but it makes no sense to play it any more times. Likewise, you can't play it more than ten times with TR since there's only ten TR's, you don't need to play it more than once before each Smithy etc.

Unlimited includes multiple and being able to play it unlimited times grants the benefits of being able to play it multiple times. If you had said "I don't see the benefit of playing it unlimited times over playing it 10000 times", you would be right. But you didn't, and so you are talking about playing it an arbitrary number of times in contrast to playing it once, which includes 2, 3 or 10 times. So still, being able to play it twice for Conspirators is a result of being able to play it unlimited times.
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Holger

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #3069 on: November 05, 2014, 09:22:33 am »
0

Unlimited includes multiple and being able to play it unlimited times grants the benefits of being able to play it multiple times. If you had said "I don't see the benefit of playing it unlimited times over playing it 10000 times", you would be right. But you didn't, and so you are talking about playing it an arbitrary number of times in contrast to playing it once, which includes 2, 3 or 10 times. So still, being able to play it twice for Conspirators is a result of being able to play it unlimited times.

This is just semantic games. 2 is as "limited" a number as 1, and you can already play any Action card "several times" due to TR, KC etc. Would you claim that it can make sense to reveal Secret Chamber an unlimited number of times, just because you may want to reveal it twice?

But I specifically said "infinite-play", and 2 and 10 are certainly not infinite numbers.
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Asper

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #3070 on: November 06, 2014, 07:08:25 am »
0

Unlimited includes multiple and being able to play it unlimited times grants the benefits of being able to play it multiple times. If you had said "I don't see the benefit of playing it unlimited times over playing it 10000 times", you would be right. But you didn't, and so you are talking about playing it an arbitrary number of times in contrast to playing it once, which includes 2, 3 or 10 times. So still, being able to play it twice for Conspirators is a result of being able to play it unlimited times.

This is just semantic games. 2 is as "limited" a number as 1, and you can already play any Action card "several times" due to TR, KC etc. Would you claim that it can make sense to reveal Secret Chamber an unlimited number of times, just because you may want to reveal it twice?

But I specifically said "infinite-play", and 2 and 10 are certainly not infinite numbers.

If you demand me to name a use case where Hellscout is played unlimited times, you demand something that's impossible - without regards to the card itself.

I allrady told you the reason, too: No card can be played infinite times, it's inherently impossible. A card that can be played as often as you want may grant a benefit, though, and Hellscout is one of those cards.

Secret Chamber on the other hand is not - unless you count stalling the game until your opponents starve to death. The problem with your semantics - which are all that matters here - is that even if Secret Chamber gave me 1$ each time i revealed it, infinite-reveal would still be impossible (and therefore useless), while arbitrary reveal would be broken.
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BraveBear

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #3071 on: November 06, 2014, 01:41:53 pm »
0

Random Market -Action ($3)

+$2

Look at the top of the randomizer deck.  Either place that cards pile in the kingdom or place the card on the bottom of the randomizer deck.  Trash this.
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thespaceinvader

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #3072 on: November 10, 2014, 05:52:29 am »
+7

Time to reboot the metacards from 40 pages back or whatever!

Metagovernor
I never metagovernor I didn't like.

Bad pun
Reaction - £0
If an opponent makes a bad pun you may reveal and discard this.  If you do, groan audibly, then, +1 card.

It's sad that I started out with a version of that that didn't work at all and felt the need to spend a minute fixing it so it would actually work and not be overpowered.
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Asper

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #3073 on: November 10, 2014, 05:55:32 am »
0

Time to reboot the metacards from 40 pages back or whatever!

Metagovernor
I never metagovernor I didn't like.

Bad pun
Reaction - £0
If an opponent makes a bad pun you may reveal and discard this.  If you do, groan audibly, then, +1 card.

It's sad that I started out with a version of that that didn't work at all and felt the need to spend a minute fixing it so it would actually work and not be overpowered.

I don't like this. It's only a slightly bad card idea. A really bad card idea should at least be overpowered or something...  :P
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spiralstaircase

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #3074 on: November 10, 2014, 02:33:43 pm »
0

Scout Master
Action - $4
Reveal your hand. Gain a province for each revealed Scout.
----
Setup:
If Scout Master is not in the kingdom, add it to the kingdom.
If Scout Master is in the kingdom, add Scout to the kingdom.
If Scout Master is in the kingdom, remove Scout master from the kingdom.
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