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Author Topic: Really bad card ideas  (Read 1850113 times)

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ashersky

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2725 on: June 10, 2014, 09:21:59 am »
+1

in my experience, expand is nowhere near as bad as scout, or saboteur. it's more a below average card, maybe somewhere near the top of the lowest quarter

I'm cool with Expand.  It definitely fills some niches.
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2726 on: June 10, 2014, 10:18:34 am »
0

I also have to come to the defense of Expand. Every time I see my opponent get one, I think "uh oh, that's another good +buy card right there".

Being able to trash either a $5 or a Gold into a Province is already pretty good. Being able to trash VP cards is more of a bonus that reduces the risk of Expand being useless and gives it good flexibility when throned or kinged. Late game is where you're really happy to have Expand, as there are so many targets.

Really, any VP gainer complicates the PPR situation, and can be critical to success in games without +buy.

I'd still get Rebuild or Altar or even Butcher with an early 7$ over Expand though, but those are pretty high-end cards IMO. Gold is probably better than Expand early game a lot of the time too if you can't be sure to line up Expand with an Estate. Silver -> $6 isn't any better for tempo than Silver-> $5 either a lot of the time, but it can get you a Grand Market. Mine and Remodel can't do that, at least not without cost reduction.
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2727 on: June 10, 2014, 06:09:17 pm »
+1

How many edge cases have to be given before they are no longer edge cases?
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2728 on: June 10, 2014, 06:10:53 pm »
+7

How many edge cases have to be given before they are no longer edge cases?

Depends on the board.
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2729 on: June 10, 2014, 10:51:18 pm »
0

Expand is not as bad as Scout.  I guess the biggest thing I've learned about it here is that its strongest use case is probably as a terminal Gold +buy when nothing else is available.

It seems like almost every time one would get an Expand, you'd be at least as happy picking up a Graverobber, Rebuild, Remodel, Wharf, or just a Gold - but only the last of these is always on the board.

It isn't that great at anything that it does.  It's just an overpriced substitute for a lot of different things on most boards.  So I overstated its badness, but "anything you can do we can do better" to me seems to describe most Expand play in practice.
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2730 on: June 11, 2014, 04:34:42 am »
0

Expand is not as bad as Scout.  I guess the biggest thing I've learned about it here is that its strongest use case is probably as a terminal Gold +buy when nothing else is available.

It seems like almost every time one would get an Expand, you'd be at least as happy picking up a Graverobber, Rebuild, Remodel, Wharf, or just a Gold - but only the last of these is always on the board.

It isn't that great at anything that it does.  It's just an overpriced substitute for a lot of different things on most boards.  So I overstated its badness, but "anything you can do we can do better" to me seems to describe most Expand play in practice.
Well, anything that Jack of all Trades does, Squire, Spy, Watchtower and Chapel can do better. JoaT isn't good because it gains silver, or because it self-Spies, or because it draws up to 5, or because it trashes a non-Treasure card, but because it does all of them. Similarly, Expand is good because it's much more versatile than any of the large number of cards that do something better that Expand does.
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2731 on: June 11, 2014, 04:56:09 am »
0

Expand is not as bad as Scout.  I guess the biggest thing I've learned about it here is that its strongest use case is probably as a terminal Gold +buy when nothing else is available.

It seems like almost every time one would get an Expand, you'd be at least as happy picking up a Graverobber, Rebuild, Remodel, Wharf, or just a Gold - but only the last of these is always on the board.

It isn't that great at anything that it does.  It's just an overpriced substitute for a lot of different things on most boards.  So I overstated its badness, but "anything you can do we can do better" to me seems to describe most Expand play in practice.
Well, anything that Jack of all Trades does, Squire, Spy, Watchtower and Chapel can do better. JoaT isn't good because it gains silver, or because it self-Spies, or because it draws up to 5, or because it trashes a non-Treasure card, but because it does all of them. Similarly, Expand is good because it's much more versatile than any of the large number of cards that do something better that Expand does.

Jack is good because it does all of those things in the same turn.  Getting a Silver AND trashing an Estate/Curse AND self-spying AND drawing a card is a lot better than the case where you have to pick just one.  Jack wouldn't be that great if you had to pick just one every time - actually, it would suck pretty hard.  Expand makes you pick just one.  If Expand let you trash 2-3 cards and gain one costing up to $3 more for each trashed, then that would be a whole other story...
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2732 on: June 11, 2014, 05:06:00 am »
+1

Expand is not as bad as Scout.  I guess the biggest thing I've learned about it here is that its strongest use case is probably as a terminal Gold +buy when nothing else is available.

It seems like almost every time one would get an Expand, you'd be at least as happy picking up a Graverobber, Rebuild, Remodel, Wharf, or just a Gold - but only the last of these is always on the board.

It isn't that great at anything that it does.  It's just an overpriced substitute for a lot of different things on most boards.  So I overstated its badness, but "anything you can do we can do better" to me seems to describe most Expand play in practice.
Well, anything that Jack of all Trades does, Squire, Spy, Watchtower and Chapel can do better. JoaT isn't good because it gains silver, or because it self-Spies, or because it draws up to 5, or because it trashes a non-Treasure card, but because it does all of them. Similarly, Expand is good because it's much more versatile than any of the large number of cards that do something better that Expand does.

Jack is good because it does all of those things in the same turn.  Getting a Silver AND trashing an Estate/Curse AND self-spying AND drawing a card is a lot better than the case where you have to pick just one.  Jack wouldn't be that great if you had to pick just one every time - actually, it would suck pretty hard.  Expand makes you pick just one.  If Expand let you trash 2-3 cards and gain one costing up to $3 more for each trashed, then that would be a whole other story...
Then compare it to Steward or Count.
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Minotaur

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2733 on: June 11, 2014, 05:10:02 am »
+1

Expand is not as bad as Scout.  I guess the biggest thing I've learned about it here is that its strongest use case is probably as a terminal Gold +buy when nothing else is available.

It seems like almost every time one would get an Expand, you'd be at least as happy picking up a Graverobber, Rebuild, Remodel, Wharf, or just a Gold - but only the last of these is always on the board.

It isn't that great at anything that it does.  It's just an overpriced substitute for a lot of different things on most boards.  So I overstated its badness, but "anything you can do we can do better" to me seems to describe most Expand play in practice.
Well, anything that Jack of all Trades does, Squire, Spy, Watchtower and Chapel can do better. JoaT isn't good because it gains silver, or because it self-Spies, or because it draws up to 5, or because it trashes a non-Treasure card, but because it does all of them. Similarly, Expand is good because it's much more versatile than any of the large number of cards that do something better that Expand does.

Jack is good because it does all of those things in the same turn.  Getting a Silver AND trashing an Estate/Curse AND self-spying AND drawing a card is a lot better than the case where you have to pick just one.  Jack wouldn't be that great if you had to pick just one every time - actually, it would suck pretty hard.  Expand makes you pick just one.  If Expand let you trash 2-3 cards and gain one costing up to $3 more for each trashed, then that would be a whole other story...
Then compare it to Steward or Count.

Steward and Count don't whiff nearly as often, and aren't overpriced for what they do.  And Count is a lot more flexible than Expand - arguably, so is Steward.

(Edit: Steward is sort of overpriced for doing just one thing - Chapel, Duchess, and Moat cost $2.  Note that Chapel is "underpriced" at $2, or at least "the best card in the game", and you often only need to trash two cards in a turn anyway - in other words, Steward is a great first-shuffle buy that turns into +2 cards or a terminal Silver when its job is done. Not only is Steward is super-flexible, but the difference between costs of $2 and $3 is minuscule compared to the $5-$7 difference, and Steward is much more flexible than Expand.  Except for when the junkers are just that strong and you have 3-4 players, you're going to draw $3 and one buy much more often than $2 and one buy anyway, and you wouldn't trypically spend an extra buy on Steward, either, because it's kind of late by then.)

Anyway, I gave Expand a little bit of credit, and I still think it's mostly bad, but it can do a job sub-optimally in a pinch, but... that's about it.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 03:38:31 pm by Minotaur »
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2734 on: June 12, 2014, 08:59:22 am »
+1

First Player Advantage--Victory--$0.

+5 VP
------------
When you gain this, +1 buy and trash a card that is in play or in your hand.
There is only one copy of this card in the supply.
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2735 on: June 12, 2014, 10:45:31 am »
+1

First Player Advantage--Victory--$0.

+5 VP
------------
When you gain this, +1 buy and trash a card that is in play or in your hand.
There is only one copy of this card in the supply.

You mean...

First Player Advantage-Victory-$0

Worth 1VP for every card in every box of Dominion you own.
------
When you gain this, the game is over.
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2736 on: June 12, 2014, 06:44:45 pm »
0

Fatality - $0 - Action

+1 card
+1 action

If you win the game, put 3 actions cards into play.



Mortal Kombat X looks like it could be awesome.

Edit: "actions cards"? I am off my game.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2014, 06:52:09 pm by markusin »
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2737 on: June 12, 2014, 06:48:20 pm »
+3

Fatality - $0 - Action

+1 card
+1 action

If you win the game, put 3 actions cards into play.



Mortal Kombat X looks like it could be awesome.

GET OVER HERE!!!
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2738 on: June 13, 2014, 03:28:18 pm »
+6

The Little Prince
$8 - Action
You may set this aside. If you do, set aside a flower your hand costing up to $2. At the start of each of your turns, water the flower, setting it aside again at the end of your turn. (Stop watering it if a sheep eats it.)
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2739 on: June 13, 2014, 03:42:14 pm »
+2

Iron Throne
Cost: $5

You may play an Action card from your hand twice.  If you do, each other player chooses to either discard two cards or gain a Curse.

------------------------------------------

Setup:  Each player who loses this game dies.
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2740 on: June 13, 2014, 03:49:42 pm »
+7

Iron Throne
Cost: $5

You may play an Action card from your hand twice.  If you do, each other player chooses to either discard two cards or gain a Curse.

------------------------------------------

Setup:  Each player who loses this game dies.

Iron Throne
$5 Action

You may play a card from your hand twice. If you do, if it's an...
Action card, +1 action
Treasure card, +$1
Victory card, +1 card
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2741 on: June 13, 2014, 03:57:59 pm »
0

Iron Throne
$5 Action

You may play the game of thrones.  If you lose, die.
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2742 on: June 13, 2014, 04:22:00 pm »
0

Game of Thrones
Cost: $4

If there are other cards in play, +1 card, +1 action.  (Note:  This is to prevent the person playing this card from protecting all their good actions by playing them.)

Otherwise:  Trash this card.  Each player counts their hand, discards it, and shuffles their discard pile into their deck, and then reveals cards from the top of their deck until they reveal an Action card that is not a Game of Thrones, and then trashes it.  Each player who does so may throw up a little.  Each player then draws as many cards as they previously had in hand.
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2743 on: June 13, 2014, 06:09:02 pm »
+3


Game of Thrones
Cost: $4

On Buy: tell all your friends you have bought game of thrones, repeatedly.

Setup:  When playing a game with game of thrones, split the board into two halfs, play first with one half of cards. Then play another game with the other half.

Make sure you wait a stupidly long time between each game
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2744 on: June 13, 2014, 10:30:44 pm »
0

Iron Throne
Cost: $5

You may play an Action card from your hand twice.  If you do, each other player chooses to either discard two cards or gain a Curse.

------------------------------------------

Setup:  Each player who loses this game dies.

Iron Throne
$5 Action

You may play a card from your hand twice. If you do, if it's an...
Action card, +1 action
Treasure card, +$1
Victory card, +1 card

Nobles and Great Halls, away!  Also, is this a Black Market variant, i.e., you can play treasures during your Action phase and bypass Tactician downsides?  Is it also possible to play pure Victory cards, so that they just go into play and say hi?
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2745 on: June 14, 2014, 05:04:33 am »
0

Iron Throne
Cost: $5

You may play an Action card from your hand twice.  If you do, each other player chooses to either discard two cards or gain a Curse.

------------------------------------------

Setup:  Each player who loses this game dies.

Iron Throne
$5 Action

You may play a card from your hand twice. If you do, if it's an...
Action card, +1 action
Treasure card, +$1
Victory card, +1 card

Nobles and Great Halls, away!  Also, is this a Black Market variant, i.e., you can play treasures during your Action phase and bypass Tactician downsides?  Is it also possible to play pure Victory cards, so that they just go into play and say hi?
You can play Treasures during your action phase. You can't play pure Victory cards.
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2746 on: June 14, 2014, 10:00:57 am »
0

Reveal instead of play? It still needs the Setup clause.
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2747 on: June 14, 2014, 11:55:01 am »
+1

Iron Throne
Cost: $5

You may play an Action card from your hand twice.  If you do, each other player chooses to either discard two cards or gain a Curse.

------------------------------------------

Setup:  Each player who loses this game dies.

Iron Throne
$5 Action

You may play a card from your hand twice. If you do, if it's an...
Action card, +1 action
Treasure card, +$1
Victory card, +1 card

Nobles and Great Halls, away!  Also, is this a Black Market variant, i.e., you can play treasures during your Action phase and bypass Tactician downsides?  Is it also possible to play pure Victory cards, so that they just go into play and say hi?
You can play Treasures during your action phase. You can't play pure Victory cards.

This card just says, "Play a card" without saying what type.  Because card rules override normal rules, I think you can play pure victory cards (but you can't do much with them).
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2748 on: June 14, 2014, 12:00:24 pm »
0

This card just says, "Play a card" without saying what type.  Because card rules override normal rules, I think you can play pure victory cards (but you can't do much with them).
Yes, it doesn't say what type. It doesn't explicitly allow you to play a pure Victory card, which means that it doesn't contradict the rules.
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2749 on: June 14, 2014, 01:19:59 pm »
0

Do you think you could play Ace of Spades, Sudgy?
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