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[Witherweaver]

Homage
Landmark

Each player shuffles their deck at the start of each of their turns.

Take that Rabble!

[Minotaur]

Homage
Landmark

Each player shuffles their deck at the start of each of their turns.

Take that Rabble!

I guess it would invalidate fewer Attacks if the shuffle were at the end of the turn instead...

[mameluke]

Well, Haunted Woods wouldn't like that version either.

[eHalcyon]

Oats
Action/Treasure/SAMSCITR
Cost: $5

As a Treasure: $2, Stables costs $1 less this turn.
As an Action: You may play a Stables from your hand.  If you do, +2 Cards.

As per Crown, this should distinguish by game phase, not card type.

It shouldn't.  You can play this card whenever you could play one of the two card types, and if necessary, you choose which role it plays when you play it (I don't know of any cards that let you play an Action OR a treasure at a given time, but it could be done maybe).  If you pay Storyteller, you can only play this card as a Treasure.  You're not allowed to play it as an Action to pay Storyteller, and you haven't played a second Action for the purposes of Conspirator, but it is an Action card that is in play as well as a Treasure card that it is play.  What it does is linked to the mechanism used for playing it, not what turn it is.

If the rule for Crown is that it plays as a Throne Room when used to pay Storyteller, then I think that's goofy and counterintuitive.

I'll never conform to Donald's Action-Treasure convention in the RBCI thread.

Dominion has no concept of what type you played the card as, because a card is all of its types all of the time.  When you play Crown through Storyteller, it is both a Treasure and an Action.  When you play it in the Action phase, it is both a Treasure and an Action.  When you play it in the Buy phase, it is both a Treasure and an Action.  Crown specifically calls out the phase in which it is played rather than the type.  When you play Crown through Storyteller, it is your Action phase, so you get the TR effect.

Edit: For an example that existed before Crown, consider Action-Victory cards.  You normally don't play Victory cards at all, but Great Hall doesn't stop being a Victory card when you play it.  It's the same for Crown.  You normally don't play Treasure cards during the Action phase or Action cards during the Buy phase, but Crown is both types no matter when or how you play it.

[Minotaur]

Oats
Action/Treasure/SAMSCITR
Cost: $5

As a Treasure: $2, Stables costs $1 less this turn.
As an Action: You may play a Stables from your hand.  If you do, +2 Cards.

As per Crown, this should distinguish by game phase, not card type.

It shouldn't.  You can play this card whenever you could play one of the two card types, and if necessary, you choose which role it plays when you play it (I don't know of any cards that let you play an Action OR a treasure at a given time, but it could be done maybe).  If you pay Storyteller, you can only play this card as a Treasure.  You're not allowed to play it as an Action to pay Storyteller, and you haven't played a second Action for the purposes of Conspirator, but it is an Action card that is in play as well as a Treasure card that it is play.  What it does is linked to the mechanism used for playing it, not what turn it is.

If the rule for Crown is that it plays as a Throne Room when used to pay Storyteller, then I think that's goofy and counterintuitive.

I'll never conform to Donald's Action-Treasure convention in the RBCI thread.

Dominion has no concept of what type you played the card as, because a card is all of its types all of the time.  When you play Crown through Storyteller, it is both a Treasure and an Action.  When you play it in the Action phase, it is both a Treasure and an Action.  When you play it in the Buy phase, it is both a Treasure and an Action.  Crown specifically calls out the phase in which it is played rather than the type.  When you play Crown through Storyteller, it is your Action phase, so you get the TR effect.

There's no reason it couldn't work the way I described.  On the other hand, the way Crown works with Storyteller is stupid.

You can be both a Mom and a Lawyer.  If you have to be a Mom at 2pm because of an exceptional circumstance, you aren't going to argue to your kid in the ER about the subtleties of jurisprudence.  You have been played as a Mom during your Lawyer phase.

[eHalcyon]

There's no reason it couldn't work the way I described.  On the other hand, the way Crown works with Throne Room is stupid.

You can be both a Mom and a Lawyer.  If you have to be a Mom at 2pm because of an exceptional circumstance, you aren't going to argue to your kid in the ER about the subtleties of jurisprudence.  You have been played as a Mom during your Lawyer phase.

But she's still both a mom and a lawyer.  Having the card depend on whether it's played as a Treasure or played as an Action is like saying, "If she's a lawyer, then this; if she's a mom, then that" and the end result is you get both, because she is both.

[Minotaur]

There's no reason it couldn't work the way I described.  On the other hand, the way Crown works with Throne Room is stupid.

You can be both a Mom and a Lawyer.  If you have to be a Mom at 2pm because of an exceptional circumstance, you aren't going to argue to your kid in the ER about the subtleties of jurisprudence.  You have been played as a Mom during your Lawyer phase.

But she's still both a mom and a lawyer.  Having the card depend on whether it's played as a Treasure or played as an Action is like saying, "If she's a lawyer, then this; if she's a mom, then that" and the end result is you get both, because she is both.

She is both, but she cannot help Timmy when he's sick because it happened during 9-5.  This is her Lawyer phase, when she never does Mom stuff.  If only she could have been played as a Mom earlier in the day.  Alas.

[Jimmmmm]

Crown is probably the most elegant way to make an Action/Treasure work, but with a few extra rules to clarify, Oats as written wouldn't be problem rules-wise.

[eHalcyon]

There's no reason it couldn't work the way I described.  On the other hand, the way Crown works with Throne Room is stupid.

You can be both a Mom and a Lawyer.  If you have to be a Mom at 2pm because of an exceptional circumstance, you aren't going to argue to your kid in the ER about the subtleties of jurisprudence.  You have been played as a Mom during your Lawyer phase.

But she's still both a mom and a lawyer.  Having the card depend on whether it's played as a Treasure or played as an Action is like saying, "If she's a lawyer, then this; if she's a mom, then that" and the end result is you get both, because she is both.

She is both, but she cannot help Timmy when he's sick because it happened during 9-5.  That's what she only does during her Mom phase.  If only she could have been played as a Mom earlier in the day.  Alas.

So you agree that it should be based on the phase, not on what she is because she is both.

[Minotaur]

Crown is probably the most elegant way to make an Action/Treasure work, but with a few extra rules to clarify, Oats as written wouldn't be problem rules-wise.

Easier to program Goko and easier to write rules for, sure.  But why do we hate Timmy?

[Minotaur]

There's no reason it couldn't work the way I described.  On the other hand, the way Crown works with Throne Room is stupid.

You can be both a Mom and a Lawyer.  If you have to be a Mom at 2pm because of an exceptional circumstance, you aren't going to argue to your kid in the ER about the subtleties of jurisprudence.  You have been played as a Mom during your Lawyer phase.

But she's still both a mom and a lawyer.  Having the card depend on whether it's played as a Treasure or played as an Action is like saying, "If she's a lawyer, then this; if she's a mom, then that" and the end result is you get both, because she is both.

She is both, but she cannot help Timmy when he's sick because it happened during 9-5.  That's what she only does during her Mom phase.  If only she could have been played as a Mom earlier in the day.  Alas.

So you agree that it should be based on the phase, not on what she is because she is both.

No.  By way of illustration, I'm saying the choice Donald made for when Mom does Mom stuff and when Mom does lawyer stuff is stupid.  Mom-Lawyer is a very bad mom.  If she has to work late on a case, she will probably be a very bad lawyer, too.  Around 5:30, she starts saying "Hi, Timmy, who's a good boy?  I love you Timmy!" over and over again, and at 6:00pm, her closing argument consists of a recitation of the ABCs.

[Deadlock39]

Why is the Lawyer phase from 9-5 and the Mom phase at the other times.  I mean what if I go to the Villa at 8:00pm and return to the Lawyer phase. That would be crazy.

[Minotaur]

Why is the Lawyer phase from 9-5 and the Mom phase at the other times.  I mean what if I go to the Villa at 8:00pm and return to the Lawyer phase. That would be crazy.

It's a good thing that Storyteller causes there to be a Buy phase, too, or else there could be some wacky misunderstandings!

[Witherweaver]

There's no reason it couldn't work the way I described.  On the other hand, the way Crown works with Storyteller is stupid.

You can be both a Mom and a Lawyer.  If you have to be a Mom at 2pm because of an exceptional circumstance, you aren't going to argue to your kid in the ER about the subtleties of jurisprudence.  You have been played as a Mom during your Lawyer phase.

Crown happens to be 'actionish' when played during the Action phase and 'treasureish' when played during the Buy phase, but it need not be.  All that's going on here is that it does different things at different times, which is not unreasonable, especially since we have such a nice way of telling what time it is.  You could easily make an Action-Treasure card that feels more like a Treasure during your Action phase and more like  an Action during your Buy phase.  Or you could make one that does not care about what phase it is; e.g.: +$2, +2 cards.

Plus, the situation you describe is really a Reaction.  If your kid goes to the ER, reveal this from your hand.  Do mom stuff.

[Minotaur]

1.  We don't need to pretend that it's impossible to understand what Oats does.
2.  I'm pretty sure Storyteller wasn't designed as a stealth Village in case future expansions had Action-Treasure cards that rely on turn phase instead of the calling mechanism to know what they should be doing.  The interaction is really, really stupid and derpy.  It's easier to fix Crown ("If played as a ____") than it is to fix Storyteller ("Temporarily end your Action phase, and start a separate Buy phase, during which you can't Buy any cards, and you can only play up to three Treasures...")  Sure, the derpiness of Storyteller-Crown is a subjective valuation, but omg, it's hella derpy for reals.
3.  Lawyer-Mom isn't omniscient, and cannot play herself as a Mom as a Reaction.  The daycare center has to play Call Mom before Mom can do Mom stuff, and even then, if she's the wrong kind of Mom-Lawyer, and then it's a non-starter.
4.  Oh Crap I Need Some Money You Guys
Action
Cost: $5

+1 Action
You may play up to three Treasures from your hand.  If you do, +1 Card for each.

(You use this card to Throne Room a Scout)

WTF???

[Witherweaver]

You seem to be operating under the assumption that Crown played with Storyteller is better if Crown plays a Treasure rather than an Action, but I don't see why there needs to be a preference.  It's not stupid or derpy at all.  It just does what it does, and it isn't confusing or difficult to understand in the slightest. 

Neither Storyteller nor Crown need a fix. 

[Seprix]

I don't see a problem with Crown and Storyteller at all. It's actually pretty cool to have Storyteller play Crown.

[Minotaur]

You seem to be operating under the assumption that Crown played with Storyteller is better if Crown plays a Treasure rather than an Action, but I don't see why there needs to be a preference.  It's not stupid or derpy at all.  It just does what it does, and it isn't confusing or difficult to understand in the slightest. 

Neither Storyteller nor Crown need a fix.

They're not technically broken, and they're not difficult to understand, but Storyteller-Crown is derpy and stupid.  It's bait-and-switching what a Treasure does with what an Action does because disambiguating rules so Treasures do Treasure stuff when played when you would play a Treasure is hard.

[Minotaur]

TARDIS
Landmark

Your Action phase is a Buy phase, and your Buy phase is an Action phase.  You do not get an extra Buy or Action at the start of either phase, but you may play Treasures and Buy cards at the end of both Action-Buy phases (after you have played Actions).  Additional Action phases granted by Villa are also Action-Buy phases.

[Seprix]

TARDIS
Landmark

Your Action phase is a Buy phase, and your Buy phase is an Action phase.  You do not get an extra Buy or Action at the start of either phase, but you may Buy cards at the end of both Action-Buy phases.  Additional Action phases granted by Villa are also Action-Buy phases.

That's horrible.

[Minotaur]

TARDIS
Landmark

Your Action phase is a Buy phase, and your Buy phase is an Action phase.  You do not get an extra Buy or Action at the start of either phase, but you may Buy cards at the end of both Action-Buy phases.  Additional Action phases granted by Villa are also Action-Buy phases.

That's horrible.

It's awesome that you can play all your Treasures before playing Library now.  It's Crown that's horrible.

[Seprix]

TARDIS
Landmark

Your Action phase is a Buy phase, and your Buy phase is an Action phase.  You do not get an extra Buy or Action at the start of either phase, but you may Buy cards at the end of both Action-Buy phases.  Additional Action phases granted by Villa are also Action-Buy phases.

That's horrible.

It's awesome that you can play all your Treasures before playing Library now.  It's Crown that's horrible.

I assume you will follow my lead and have a personal text that says "Crown is overrated"?

[Minotaur]

TARDIS
Landmark

Your Action phase is a Buy phase, and your Buy phase is an Action phase.  You do not get an extra Buy or Action at the start of either phase, but you may Buy cards at the end of both Action-Buy phases.  Additional Action phases granted by Villa are also Action-Buy phases.

That's horrible.

It's awesome that you can play all your Treasures before playing Library now.  It's Crown that's horrible.

I assume you will follow my lead and have a personal text that says "Crown is overrated"?

How does that work?  Would they recall Empires and print it again?  Or would I get a "cool story bro" response?

[Seprix]

TARDIS
Landmark

Your Action phase is a Buy phase, and your Buy phase is an Action phase.  You do not get an extra Buy or Action at the start of either phase, but you may Buy cards at the end of both Action-Buy phases.  Additional Action phases granted by Villa are also Action-Buy phases.

That's horrible.

It's awesome that you can play all your Treasures before playing Library now.  It's Crown that's horrible.

I assume you will follow my lead and have a personal text that says "Crown is overrated"?

How does that work?  Would they recall Empires and print it again?  Or would I get a "cool story bro" response?

Go to forum profile settings, where you can change your avatar and birthdate and where you put your Goko/Isotropic username, and add to the personal text box: "Crown is overrated". Alternatively, you could simply say "Whining about Crown is overrated" or "Seprix is overrated" or something humorous.

[Awaclus]

How about "Crown is more skippable than people think"?