Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Rules?  (Read 3133 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1371
    • View Profile
Rules?
« on: June 30, 2014, 01:44:53 pm »
0

I'm pretty sure Blizzard needs to get their rules straight. I play a crazed Alchemist on an enemy minion which is buffed by Stormwind Champion. It's base is 3/2, SWC buffs it to 4/3, then when I play crazed Alchemist is becomes a 4/5. What? It swapped the buffed health then buffed it again with SWC. I can't believe this to be correct.
Logged

theory

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3594
  • Respect: +6035
    • View Profile
    • Dominion Strategy
Re: Rules?
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2014, 01:47:21 pm »
+1

Yep, that's how it works.  You take the current attack/health and set it to be the new attack/health base.  That then gets buffed by SWC because it's an ongoing buff.  It wouldn't work with say, Shattered Sun Cleric.

In other news, I lost an enrage buff on my Spiteful Smith by crazed alchemisting it.  I also found out that applying stealth to Knife Juggler doesn't do anything ...
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1169
    • View Profile
Re: Rules?
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2014, 01:55:02 pm »
0

Yeah, Alchemist takes current Attack and Health, swaps them, and sets those values as new hard set values. So it is also abusable with till-end-of-turn effects. For example, If you cast some spells and make your Mana Addict, lets say, 8/5 (Mark of the Wild and two non-buff spells) and than play alchemist on Mana Addict, Mana Addict becomes 5/8 and doesn't shrink at the end of the turn, he stays like that till the end of the game. If you cast some spells next turn, he gets +2/+0 on top of what he is, as per normal.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 01:56:10 pm by Grujah »
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1371
    • View Profile
Re: Rules?
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2014, 01:57:28 pm »
0

Yep, that's how it works.  You take the current attack/health and set it to be the new attack/health base.  That then gets buffed by SWC because it's an ongoing buff.  It wouldn't work with say, Shattered Sun Cleric.

In other news, I lost an enrage buff on my Spiteful Smith by crazed alchemisting it.  I also found out that applying stealth to Knife Juggler doesn't do anything ...

Makes sense. Still confusing. And I found that by trying to Master of Disguise a Rag. It just stealths when it uses it's ability.
Logged

popsofctown

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5388
  • Respect: +2771
    • View Profile
Re: Rules?
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2014, 04:02:33 pm »
0

Master of Disguise can only stealth minions with useful abilities that don't deal damage.  Like Lightwell!
Logged
Also you probably are an expert if you buy two bureaucrats early.

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3779
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +2331
    • View Profile
Re: Rules?
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2014, 09:33:41 pm »
0

Yeah, Alchemist takes current Attack and Health, swaps them, and sets those values as new hard set values. So it is also abusable with till-end-of-turn effects. For example, If you cast some spells and make your Mana Addict, lets say, 8/5 (Mark of the Wild and two non-buff spells) and than play alchemist on Mana Addict, Mana Addict becomes 5/8 and doesn't shrink at the end of the turn, he stays like that till the end of the game. If you cast some spells next turn, he gets +2/+0 on top of what he is, as per normal.
I had my 4/1 Gadgetzan swapped by the alchemist to become a 1/4. I silenced my Gadgetzan, and it became a 4/4 again. What?
Logged

ycz6

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 673
  • Respect: +388
    • View Profile
Re: Rules?
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2014, 09:47:52 pm »
0

As a rule, silencing a minion will only decrease its health if its current health is higher than its base health.
Logged

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2096
    • View Profile
Re: Rules?
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2014, 10:29:41 am »
0

Yeah, Alchemist takes current Attack and Health, swaps them, and sets those values as new hard set values. So it is also abusable with till-end-of-turn effects. For example, If you cast some spells and make your Mana Addict, lets say, 8/5 (Mark of the Wild and two non-buff spells) and than play alchemist on Mana Addict, Mana Addict becomes 5/8 and doesn't shrink at the end of the turn, he stays like that till the end of the game. If you cast some spells next turn, he gets +2/+0 on top of what he is, as per normal.
I had my 4/1 Gadgetzan swapped by the alchemist to become a 1/4. I silenced my Gadgetzan, and it became a 4/4 again. What?

Silencing the Alchemist effect always just returns the minion to its base stats. It doesn't do something like swapping them again.
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1169
    • View Profile
Re: Rules?
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2014, 10:56:59 am »
0

This just showed up in Amaz's live game:

Both players have 5/5 Sylvanas. Your opponent also has Ysera. You slam your Sylvanas into his Sylvanas. What happens?
Logged

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2096
    • View Profile
Re: Rules?
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2014, 10:59:20 am »
0

This just showed up in Amaz's live game:

Both players have 5/5 Sylvanas. Your opponent also has Ysera. You slam your Sylvanas into his Sylvanas. What happens?

No one knows. I thought that the Sylvanas that was played first would trigger first, but apparently it's not consistent...
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1169
    • View Profile
Re: Rules?
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2014, 11:03:47 am »
0

This just showed up in Amaz's live game:

Both players have 5/5 Sylvanas. Your opponent also has Ysera. You slam your Sylvanas into his Sylvanas. What happens?

No one knows. I thought that the Sylvanas that was played first would trigger first, but apparently it's not consistent...

I though that as well. Really, ain't consistent? You sure?
Logged

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2096
    • View Profile
Re: Rules?
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2014, 11:19:14 am »
0

This just showed up in Amaz's live game:

Both players have 5/5 Sylvanas. Your opponent also has Ysera. You slam your Sylvanas into his Sylvanas. What happens?

No one knows. I thought that the Sylvanas that was played first would trigger first, but apparently it's not consistent...

I though that as well. Really, ain't consistent? You sure?

I don't know. I read somewhere on liquidhearth or something that someone tested it and it didn't work out that way all the time. I've had less opportunity to test since then since Sylvanas is no longer standard in every deck like it used to be when it cost 5.
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1371
    • View Profile
Re: Rules?
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2014, 11:19:57 am »
0

This just showed up in Amaz's live game:

Both players have 5/5 Sylvanas. Your opponent also has Ysera. You slam your Sylvanas into his Sylvanas. What happens?

No one knows. I thought that the Sylvanas that was played first would trigger first, but apparently it's not consistent...

I though that as well. Really, ain't consistent? You sure?

My guess is the player who's turn it is activates his Sylvanas first. That's how I would assume it works.
Logged

theory

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3594
  • Respect: +6035
    • View Profile
    • Dominion Strategy
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1169
    • View Profile
Re: Rules?
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2014, 11:38:21 am »
0

This just showed up in Amaz's live game:

Both players have 5/5 Sylvanas. Your opponent also has Ysera. You slam your Sylvanas into his Sylvanas. What happens?

No one knows. I thought that the Sylvanas that was played first would trigger first, but apparently it's not consistent...

I though that as well. Really, ain't consistent? You sure?

My guess is the player who's turn it is activates his Sylvanas first. That's how I would assume it works.

APNAP works in Magic only :P

Like, I know that if you have multiple totems or Knife Jugglers they activate in FIFO order (First played triggers first, and so on). I guess it might be different with 2 players owning the creatures.
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1169
    • View Profile
Re: Rules?
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2014, 11:42:49 am »
0

http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/4637-how-deathrattle-activation-order-works

Well, that does help, but is not definite as it is from January and then there is that Twitter post linked.. ugh.
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1371
    • View Profile
Re: Rules?
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2014, 12:01:43 pm »
0

This just showed up in Amaz's live game:

Both players have 5/5 Sylvanas. Your opponent also has Ysera. You slam your Sylvanas into his Sylvanas. What happens?

No one knows. I thought that the Sylvanas that was played first would trigger first, but apparently it's not consistent...

I though that as well. Really, ain't consistent? You sure?

My guess is the player who's turn it is activates his Sylvanas first. That's how I would assume it works.

APNAP works in Magic only :P

Like, I know that if you have multiple totems or Knife Jugglers they activate in FIFO order (First played triggers first, and so on). I guess it might be different with 2 players owning the creatures.

I don't see why they can't use APNAP. They already started that kind of thing with the Secrets only being able to activate on your opponents turn, and it would fix a couple issues like this when deciding things. I think they made a mistake by just making cards and not making a rulebook. They're making a board game, not a video game. They need a rulebook people can consult on things like this.
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1169
    • View Profile
Re: Rules?
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2014, 01:17:46 pm »
0

They need a reliable, simple, set-in-stone system ASAP, especially as they are releasing an expansion based on Deathrattle.
Like, what if two Sylvanas and two Nerubians that return minions in hand all die at the same time?
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1371
    • View Profile
Re: Rules?
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2014, 01:31:36 pm »
0

I hope that's why they're delaying. because they're finding all kinds of interactions that need clearing up.
Logged

blueblimp

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2803
  • Respect: +1519
    • View Profile
Re: Rules?
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2014, 09:45:39 pm »
0

They need a reliable, simple, set-in-stone system ASAP, especially as they are releasing an expansion based on Deathrattle.
Looks like we're getting it: http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/2aahwi/ben_brode_the_order_in_which_deathrattles_trigger/
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1169
    • View Profile
Re: Rules?
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2014, 12:40:12 pm »
0

Apparently, if you Shadowmadness a guy and than Silence it, it goes back to his owner instantly.

Learned that the hard way.
Logged

theory

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3594
  • Respect: +6035
    • View Profile
    • Dominion Strategy
Re: Rules?
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2014, 12:45:10 pm »
0

And if you Faceless something that you Shadowmadnessed, it goes back to its owner as well.
Logged

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2096
    • View Profile
Re: Rules?
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2014, 01:41:35 pm »
0

Apparently, if you Shadowmadness a guy and than Silence it, it goes back to his owner instantly.

Learned that the hard way.

Yeah the buff is "on opponent's board this turn", not "returns to other board at the end of the turn". It makes sense that it's like this, but I too had to try it once hoping I was wrong :)
Logged

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7092
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9371
    • View Profile
Re: Rules?
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2014, 04:15:05 pm »
0

And if you Faceless something that you Shadowmadnessed, it goes back to its owner as well.

However, if you Brewmaster it, it goes to your hand.
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.285 seconds with 20 queries.