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Author Topic: My Game Logs - What could I do better?  (Read 2838 times)

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enfynet

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My Game Logs - What could I do better?
« on: June 28, 2014, 12:35:11 am »
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I'm going to start off by saying, I'm not very good at this game. So I will put any of my reports here in one thread to discuss.

Kingdom:
Code: [Select]
Embargo, Pawn, Watchtower, Baron, Ironworks, Navigator, Pirate Ship, Bazaar, Merchant Ship, NoblesI opened Silver, Ironworks, Bazaar. I was intending on connecting Ironworks to pick up more Pirates, and buying Bazaars to connect them.  It didn't work out quite the way I imagined, but I did squeeze out the win.
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140627/log.516cd86de4b082c74d7a40b2.1403929696828.txt
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silverspawn

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Re: My Game Logs - What could I do better?
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2014, 12:45:07 am »
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most importantly, don't buy pirate ship. stay away from pirate ship as far as possible. you want to open baron/silver, buy nobles whenever you can, buy bazaar whenever you can't buy nobles, probably buy one watchtower and not more than 1 silver. if your opponent is crazy enough to go pirate ship, also add some merchant ships.  you probably won because your opponent did a weird thing with way too many barons. definitely don't buy a second one.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 12:46:50 am by silverspawn »
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KingZog3

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Re: My Game Logs - What could I do better?
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2014, 02:05:47 am »
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Silverspawn is exactly right. Pirate Ship loses here because it offers your opponent copper trashing that he couldn't otherwise have. Nobles, Merchant Ship and Bazaar provide all the money, draw and actions you need, and Pawn can give +buy. Baron can help at the begging of the game for sure, but Navigator isn't terrible. Baron is probably better though.
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DG

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Re: My Game Logs - What could I do better?
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2014, 08:22:21 am »
+1

On this board you appear to have quite a few choices: pirate ships, big money with +coin actions, and a nobles and bazaar engine, some mix of those together. A treasure deck with terminals such as baron and couple of merchant ships is going to be solid enough, is not going to be set back by pirates, and you can add bazaars for 5 coins as well. A pirates deck will take many turns to give a big income, may not actually bring in much more income than a baron at +4 coins or a merchant ship at +2/+2 coins, and in two player games the attack is going to be ineffective against those income cards. We should rule that out. A massive nobles and bazaar engine that can draw the whole deck is harder to evaluate. It needs +buys to make it worthwhile, needs a lot of building with expensive cards at cost 5 and 6, it can build a bit longer (since the nobles points stop an opponent building too big a lead), it will be unreliable without trashing (pirates help it), and needs a big payload (which comes with bazaar coins). I'd say the massive engine was worth going for, just because it gives you more control when it works.

Ok so lets go back to the way you played the pirates. First of all you don't need the ironworks. There are just not enough good cheap cards to make it worthwhile. Attacks are not going to stop you from buying pirates. The delay in gaining the pirates is important. So just buy the pirate ships. You should also stick purely to pirates since you're planning to make them earn more than merchant ships (or else you'd just skip the pirates, right?). You pick up an embargo and then embargo the embargoes, which is not really making use of it at all. If you're playing pirates you could embargo gold, or perhaps nobles, without any loss and even an embargo on provinces changes things for your opponent.
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luser

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Re: My Game Logs - What could I do better?
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2014, 09:41:57 am »
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On this board you appear to have quite a few choices: pirate ships, big money with +coin actions, and a nobles and bazaar engine, some mix of those together. A treasure deck with terminals such as baron and couple of merchant ships is going to be solid enough, is not going to be set back by pirates, and you can add bazaars for 5 coins as well. A pirates deck will take many turns to give a big income, may not actually bring in much more income than a baron at +4 coins or a merchant ship at +2/+2 coins, and in two player games the attack is going to be ineffective against those income cards. We should rule that out. A massive nobles and bazaar engine that can draw the whole deck is harder to evaluate. It needs +buys to make it worthwhile, needs a lot of building with expensive cards at cost 5 and 6, it can build a bit longer (since the nobles points stop an opponent building too big a lead), it will be unreliable without trashing (pirates help it), and needs a big payload (which comes with bazaar coins). I'd say the massive engine was worth going for, just because it gives you more control when it works.

Ok so lets go back to the way you played the pirates. First of all you don't need the ironworks. There are just not enough good cheap cards to make it worthwhile. Attacks are not going to stop you from buying pirates. The delay in gaining the pirates is important. So just buy the pirate ships. You should also stick purely to pirates since you're planning to make them earn more than merchant ships (or else you'd just skip the pirates, right?). You pick up an embargo and then embargo the embargoes, which is not really making use of it at all. If you're playing pirates you could embargo gold, or perhaps nobles, without any loss and even an embargo on provinces changes things for your opponent.

I played several solitaire games and baron + 2 merchant ship bm, then bazaars on 5 is few turns faster than nobles engine. Going for engine is risky, when you hit 4 on turns 3-4 you are screwed, likewise if opponent embargoes bazaars and nobles after you bought two nobles.
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: My Game Logs - What could I do better?
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2014, 10:19:02 am »
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If opponent spends time Embagoing Bazaars and Nobles, you should be able to transition into Nobles Big Money and take advantage of his "wasting time".
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silverspawn

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Re: My Game Logs - What could I do better?
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2014, 10:22:30 am »
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Quote
I played several solitaire games and baron + 2 merchant ship bm, then bazaars on 5 is few turns faster than nobles engine. Going for engine is risky, when you hit 4 on turns 3-4 you are screwed, likewise if opponent embargoes bazaars and nobles after you bought two nobles.
I'm not sure what you mean by faster. Nobles is a victory card, if your opp skips them, you will continue to build your engine while you buy nobles, and he will degrade his deck by buying provinces. If you just looked what gets to 4 provinces faster, well that's not really meaningful

also, embargo isn't that scary, because you have watchtower.
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luser

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Re: My Game Logs - What could I do better?
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2014, 11:38:16 am »
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If opponent spends time Embagoing Bazaars and Nobles, you should be able to transition into Nobles Big Money and take advantage of his "wasting time".
That is unlikely to work as you have bad money density. You would use nobles as smithy so you would need to add additional silvers and golds and hope that nobles do not draw other actions dead. As his deck is has already several golds you are at disadvantage.

Quote
I played several solitaire games and baron + 2 merchant ship bm, then bazaars on 5 is few turns faster than nobles engine. Going for engine is risky, when you hit 4 on turns 3-4 you are screwed, likewise if opponent embargoes bazaars and nobles after you bought two nobles.
I'm not sure what you mean by faster. Nobles is a victory card, if your opp skips them, you will continue to build your engine while you buy nobles, and he will degrade his deck by buying provinces. If you just looked what gets to 4 provinces faster, well that's not really meaningful

also, embargo isn't that scary, because you have watchtower.

No, I looked how long it takes to get decisive lead (like 6 provinces on turn 17). I did not say that you should be stupid and when you are greening you should not pick nobles on 6.

You have watchtower but are trying to build an expensive village-smithy engine with little treasure, you need lot of these components until you could draw your deck and until then embargo prevents you get a component half of time.
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dondon151

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Re: My Game Logs - What could I do better?
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2014, 06:47:21 pm »
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I played several solitaire games and baron + 2 merchant ship bm, then bazaars on 5 is few turns faster than nobles engine. Going for engine is risky, when you hit 4 on turns 3-4 you are screwed, likewise if opponent embargoes bazaars and nobles after you bought two nobles.

There are a couple of ways to crush a money strategy:
1) Embargo Provinces (engine can trash Curses with WT)
2) Pick up a Pirate Ship later
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enfynet

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Re: My Game Logs - What could I do better?
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2014, 12:48:49 am »
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I do have a tendency to plan creatively and execute poorly. I'm still learning how most of the cards work. I own all of them in physical form, but don't get to play often. Salvager made Goko playable for me, but I have no plans on spending money for more cards, so my experience with expansions is going to be limited to IRL or if I manage to join a game online.

Anyways, reading these comments, I was unsure how effective MS would be, and with Bazaar I felt Nobles was ignorable. Perhaps I should have grabbed a few for the +Cards.
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dondon151

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Re: My Game Logs - What could I do better?
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2014, 02:11:25 am »
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Why would you think that Nobles is ignorable if Bazaar is available?
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silverspawn

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Re: My Game Logs - What could I do better?
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2014, 10:29:01 am »
+1

I do have a tendency to plan creatively and execute poorly. I'm still learning how most of the cards work. I own all of them in physical form, but don't get to play often. Salvager made Goko playable for me, but I have no plans on spending money for more cards, so my experience with expansions is going to be limited to IRL or if I manage to join a game online.

Anyways, reading these comments, I was unsure how effective MS would be, and with Bazaar I felt Nobles was ignorable. Perhaps I should have grabbed a few for the +Cards.

if you buy nobles primarily for the +2 actions, you are doing something wrong. +3 cards is infinitely better than +2 actions, you should use nobles as a smithy as often as possible.
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enfynet

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Re: My Game Logs - What could I do better?
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2014, 01:01:38 pm »
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Because I....

...over estimate the value of +Actions
...suffer terminal collisions often
...have trouble learning when my deck reaches critical mass (enough action/draw to play consistent turns)

For example, I draw a hand with money/vp and a Nobles, I choose +Cards, and draw two Nobles dead. Things like that happen very often in my decks.
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silverspawn

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Re: My Game Logs - What could I do better?
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2014, 01:06:29 pm »
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Because I....

...over estimate the value of +Actions
...suffer terminal collisions often
...have trouble learning when my deck reaches critical mass (enough action/draw to play consistent turns)

For example, I draw a hand with money/vp and a Nobles, I choose +Cards, and draw two Nobles dead. Things like that happen very often in my decks.

they solution is probably to a) not get more than one or 2 nobles if there are no villages and b) get lots of villages when there are nobles and villages. just consider nobles a smithy variant
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