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Author Topic: The Dominion Cards Lists 2012 Ed.1: Introduction and meta-discussion  (Read 45631 times)

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Qvist

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+2

Hello folks,

inspired by the discussion on the Top 5 lists and the ranking of the $2 cards, I thought it would be nice to have a list, compiled by the votes of each one of you, so we get a balanced list. I don't know if anyone or that many of you are interested in this. But as I saw how much posted their ranking of the $2 cards after my post that quickly, I'll give it a try.

How will this work?
I think I will do 2 list contests. Before I open a second thread, I want to see how well the feedback is.
The first list will be one like theory wants to compile: The best cards of each price level.
I think it will be interesting to see if the community has the same opinion.
This list shouldn't be viewed as a replacement of theory's list. He's a very experienced player and his lists a very informative.
You should see it as an addition.
The second list is a big one: The favourite cards.
I know there are several threads and discussions, but there are no compiled lists.
You can rank the cards, based on whatever you like: strength/weakness, originality in design, fun and "no-fun" factor, whatever.

What do you have to do?
If you like to contribute, send me a PM for one or the other list (or both).
Cards are only counted if they are kingdom cards, so no Copper, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Potion, Estate, Duchy, Province, Colony, Curse and Prize Cards are allowed.
Just arrange the cards for your ranking with the best/favourite card going first and the worst/least favourite on the last position.
For reference: 157 cards should be in your Favourite card list and the Best card list is subdivided into several lists, containing:
16 $2 cards, 26 $3 cards, 43 $4 cards, 48 $5 cards, 14 >$6 cards, 10 Potion cards = 157
I don't make a difference between attack or non-attack cards, so put them togehter in one list as I can easily divide it later if it seems reasonable.
The criteria for the Potion cost cards IMHO should be: How often will I buy at least one Potion if this card is in the supply? But you can rank them in which order you like. We'll see what the result will be.

Card List:
Code: [Select]
16 $2 cards
Cellar
Chapel
Moat
Courtyard
Pawn
Secret Chamber
Embargo
Haven
Lighthouse
Native Village
Pearl Diver
Herbalist
Hamlet
Crossroads
Duchess
Fool's Gold

26 $3 cards
Chancellor
Village
Woodcutter
Workshop
Great Hall
Masquerade
Shanty Town
Steward
Swindler
Wishing Well
Ambassador
Fishing Village
Lookout
Smugglers
Warehouse
Loan
Trade Route
Watchtower
Fortune Teller
Menagerie
Develop
Oasis
Oracle
Scheme
Tunnel
Black Market

43 $4 cards
Bureaucrat
Feast
Gardens
Militia
Moneylender
Remodel
Smithy
Spy
Thief
Throne Room
Baron
Bridge
Conspirator
Coppersmith
Ironworks
Mining Village
Scout
Caravan
Cutpurse
Island
Navigator
Pirate Ship
Salvager
Sea Hag
Treasure Map
Bishop
Monument
Quarry
Talisman
Worker's Village
Farming Village
Horse Traders
Remake
Tournament
Young Witch
Jack of all Trades
Noble Brigand
Nomad Camp
Silk Road
Spice Merchant
Trader
Envoy
Walled Village

48 $5 cards
Council Room
Festival
Laboratory
Library
Market
Mine
Witch
Duke
Minion
Saboteur
Torturer
Trading Post
Tribute
Upgrade
Bazaar
Explorer
Ghost Ship
Merchant Ship
Outpost
Tactician
Treasury
Wharf
Apprentice
City
Contraband
Counting House
Mint
Mountebank
Rabble
Royal Seal
Vault
Venture
Harvest
Horn of Plenty
Hunting Party
Jester
Cache
Cartographer
Embassy
Haggler
Highway
Ill-Gotten Gains
Inn
Mandarin
Margrave
Stables
Governor
Stash

14 >$6 cards
Adventurer
Harem
Nobles
Goons
Grand Market
Hoard
Fairgrounds
Border Village
Farmland
Bank
Expand
Forge
King's Court
Peddler

10 Potion cards
Transmute
Vineyard
Apothecary
Scrying Pool
University
Alchemist
Familiar
Philosopher's Stone
Golem
Possession

For the best card list, I will add a variant of theory's disclaimer:
This list should cause discussion not hassle. Of course it's difficult to compare some of the cards because pretty much every card has some situations where it shines and situations where it doesn't.
This isn't a scientific list, just a compiled list of the community's opinion of the best cards.

What else?
Submission deadline will be the 31st of December 11:59pm UTC.
Each card will get points based on the rank. So your favourite card gets 157 points and your least favourite gets 1 point. This will result in a compiled list of all of your lists.
Then I will post daily the rankings from worst to best to raise the tension (maybe 5 cards per day).
I will also add some statistic data like "Saboteur #11, highest rank #1 (2 times), lowest rank #98, standard deviation: 10.23"
Based on the data, I will make a list to compare the expansions too.
And I will add some comments to each card, e.g. why I think it ranked there where it ranked. So if you have time, you can also add in your list some comments to some cards, explaining why you put it there in your list.

So, tell me if it's a good idea and if you want to contribute. Originally I wanted to wait until all expansions are out. But we can do it again then and compare the lists.

Edit: You can use these online surveys too:
Best Cards
Favourite Cards
Please be sure that you put each card in order on the right and don't miss any.
The best/favourite card goes on top.
If you have already submitted, you don't have to take the survey.
And if you don't like that survey, you can still PM me.

Results:
$2 cards
$3 cards (Part 1)
$3 cards (Part 2)
$4 cards (Part 1)
$4 cards (Part 2)
$4 cards (Part 3)
$5 cards (Part 1)
$5 cards (Part 2)
$5 cards (Part 3)
$5 cards (Part 4)
$6+ cards
Potion cost cards

Favourite cards
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 07:20:01 am by Qvist »
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DStu

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THE Dominion Card List(s): Meta-discussion
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2011, 07:13:04 am »
0

Editor's note: This is the thread for discussion about how the Dominion Card Lists should be run, not discussion about the cards or the contents of the lists themselves.

Quote
Cards are only counted if they are in the supply, so no Copper, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Potion, Estate, Duchy, Province, Colony, Curse and Prize Cards are allowed.
afaik everthing there except Prizes belongs to the supply...

Quote
Submission deadline will be the 31st of December 11:59pm.
time zone?
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 01:59:04 pm by rrenaud »
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2011, 07:15:53 am »
0

Quote
Cards are only counted if they are in the supply kingdom cards, so no Copper, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Potion, Estate, Duchy, Province, Colony, Curse and Prize Cards are allowed.
afaik everthing there except Prizes belongs to the supply...

Sorted.

I'll probably do this just because writing lists is fun and I've got nothing better to do. I'll probably miss cards though. Is there a list of all current Dominion cards sorted by price anywhere for reference?
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Qvist

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2011, 07:17:36 am »
0

Quote
Cards are only counted if they are in the supply, so no Copper, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Potion, Estate, Duchy, Province, Colony, Curse and Prize Cards are allowed.
afaik everthing there except Prizes belongs to the supply...

Quote
Submission deadline will be the 31st of December 11:59pm.
time zone?

That was a typo. I think it should read Kingdom cards, right?
I always forget the timezone. Best would be UTC I think.
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Qvist

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2011, 07:22:52 am »
0

Quote
Cards are only counted if they are in the supply kingdom cards, so no Copper, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Potion, Estate, Duchy, Province, Colony, Curse and Prize Cards are allowed.
afaik everthing there except Prizes belongs to the supply...

Sorted.

I'll probably do this just because writing lists is fun and I've got nothing better to do. I'll probably miss cards though. Is there a list of all current Dominion cards sorted by price anywhere for reference?

I added a list. You can also look here: http://dominion.diehrstraits.com/?set=All&f=list
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Buggz

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2011, 07:31:03 am »
0

How about any timezone? When no place on earth counts 31st of december, deadline has passed for certain.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2011, 07:34:28 am »
+1

I'm pretty sure the exact deadline isn't going to matter. Anybody who wants to do this won't be leaving it until the countdown to new year...
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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2011, 08:40:10 am »
0

I tried making that the implied message of my post.  :)
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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2011, 08:54:38 am »
0

What about another list, 'best combos list'?
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Qvist

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2011, 09:49:39 am »
0

What about another list, 'best combos list'?

I think 2 lists with each having 157 entries are more than enough for the start.
And a combos list would make everything more complicated. Either everyone has to rank all 12403 possible 2-card-combinations (if I counted right), so that would be no fun. So we have to either make a voting or precompile a list of combos we can then rank.
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Tables

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2011, 09:08:38 am »
0

Oh man. Rating 157 cards in order of how fun they are is no small task, you know... Perhaps it would be better to have a small rating system, say a rating of 1-5 (integer) for each card, so people can rate their cards somewhat accurately and much more quickly.

As for the best to worst lists, they're probably managable.
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.
I hereby declare myself the best dominion player in the world. Obviously.

Qvist

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2011, 04:51:02 pm »
0

Yeah, I know.
But I thought that might be fun too. And if you aren't sure where to put a card, it doesn't really matter if you put it at #62 or at #63 in the end.
We'll see. I let it run at least a week. If I got few lists I might make it easier with a rating system as you suggested.
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vidicate

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2011, 08:46:52 pm »
0

Either everyone has to rank all 12403 possible 2-card-combinations (if I counted right)...
157*156/2 = 12246.
Shown here, and also calculated the long way. I am very much a math geek. ;D
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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2011, 01:56:39 am »
0

Sounds fun. I'll put together my "Best" lists when I have time.
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Qvist

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2011, 02:57:51 am »
+1

Either everyone has to rank all 12403 possible 2-card-combinations (if I counted right)...
157*156/2 = 12246.
Shown here, and also calculated the long way. I am very much a math geek. ;D

I counted in my head. Considerung this: Not so bad.

PS: I received my first two lists. Very interesting positions. I'm looking forward for more.
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werothegreat

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2011, 12:54:29 pm »
0

Hmm.  I'm just going to do the best from cost 2-5 from each of the sets I own.

Base:
$2 - Chapel - obviously.
$3 - Village - more useful than the other three, which can be more powerful, but only in specific situations (Workshop with Gardens, Woodcutter when there are no other +Buys, etc)
$4 - Moneylender/Throne Room - Smithy close second - there's quite a lot of $4 from this set, but Moneylender is able to boost you up from the Copper doldrums so efficiently.  Given that it becomes almost useless in late game (unless you have a Remodel or Remodel variant), I tie this with Throne Room, which is amazing in late game, though rather useless early game.  Anyone who buys a Throne Room first is an idiot.  The reason why Smithy is not at the top in my opinion is the lack of +Action.  Smithy either needs to be couple with Big Money or lots of +2 Actions cards to be useful, though it becomes very useful in those situations.
$5 - Laboratory - Witch/Mine in second - I don't think I need to justify Laboratory.  Witch and Mine are both cards you have to get early, the Mine because you want to start ramping up money as early and often as possible, and the Witch because you want to screw your opponents deck before they can screw yours, and before the Curses run out.  But both are extremely powerful cards, though neither can quite top Laboratory.

Intrigue:
$2 - Meh?  These are really all well-priced - they're shitty cards.  They do something decently, but you'd rather have something more expensive.  Please feel free to disagree.
$3 - Steward/Masquerade - Steward is delightfully versatile, able to function as a Chapel early game, or as a drawer/coin-provider in mid- or late game (provided you have +Actions).  And Masquerade can fuel a host of nasty tactics when played correctly.
$4 - Bridge - I don't think I need to say anything for this.
$5 - This one's a toughie.  While I recognize Minion is probably most powerful, I really, really like Trading Post.  It sort of neatly combines what I like about Chapel and Mine, though you may want to couple it with a Mine or Remodel for late game.
$6 - Harem - duh.

Alchemy:
Here's where it gets interesting.  I'm not sure how you want to handle Potion cards.  Herbalist and Apprentice are both great cards for their price.  Herbalist combined with Alchemist is a rather obvious combination, but it has its uses elsewhere.  But the Potion cards are all just so powerful, and there's only one or two at each of their "prices," so there's no real point in discussing this?  They're all good cards (except maybe Transmute), just hard to get to.

Prosperity:
$3 - Watchtower - I've never liked Trade Route - it's too slow, and it mandates that you trash.  And I'm still not quite sold on Loan - there are other, more effective ways of doing what it does.
$4 - Bishop - if you've ever played with Bishop on isotropic, and you let your opponent get most of them, you know why I'm saying this.
$5 - Mountebank/Vault - Rabble in second - Getting Mountebanks early can screw your opponents deck massively.  And if you get a 5/2 split, buying Vault ensures you will have a Grand Market between your first and second shuffle.  Vault's +2 Cards solves pretty much everything that sucked about Secret Chamber's action.  Rabble is more subtle.  +3 Cards is always great, but being able to make sure your opponent never gets to play his Grand Market or King's Court is very, very satisfying.  City, you say?  Sure, but you need to buy, let's see, ALL OF THEM for them to be useful.
$6 - Grand Market.  Sure, Goons means you don't need to buy Provinces or Colonies, but Grand Market means you can buy more than one every turn.
$7 - King's Court - need I say more?
Stop looking at me like that, Peddler!  You're the only one of your cost!

I recently got Seaside, but I don't think I've played it enough to judge the cards effectively.
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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2011, 01:49:33 pm »
+3

Intrigue:
$2 - Meh?  These are really all well-priced - they're shitty cards.  They do something decently, but you'd rather have something more expensive.  Please feel free to disagree.

You take that back about Courtyard!

Courtyard is by no means a shitty card, and there are lots of engines where you would rather have it than Silver.
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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2011, 02:33:12 pm »
0

Intrigue:
$2 - Meh?  These are really all well-priced - they're shitty cards.  They do something decently, but you'd rather have something more expensive.  Please feel free to disagree.

You take that back about Courtyard!

Courtyard is by no means a shitty card, and there are lots of engines where you would rather have it than Silver.

I'll grant you that, but I'd rather have a Smithy or a Laboratory.
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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2011, 02:58:09 pm »
0

Intrigue:
$2 - Meh?  These are really all well-priced - they're shitty cards.  They do something decently, but you'd rather have something more expensive.  Please feel free to disagree.

You take that back about Courtyard!

Courtyard is by no means a shitty card, and there are lots of engines where you would rather have it than Silver.

I'll grant you that, but I'd rather have a Smithy or a Laboratory.
I find that courtyard is very very often superior to smithy.
Even disregarding the cost difference.

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2011, 08:07:38 pm »
+4

Instead of making every make a fully ordered list of 157 cards, you should set up a facemash-like thing, where you show us 2 cards at a time and we click the one that we like better. Then maintain an ELO for each card and generate a ranking :)
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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2011, 09:31:36 pm »
+1

I'll grant you that, but I'd rather have a Smithy or a Laboratory.

Yeah, I would, too. But Smithy costs $4 and Lab costs $5, and very often I'd rather have a Courtyard over a Smithy. I disagree strongly with your opinion of Intrigue $2 cost cards because Courtyard is strong in a lot of kingdoms and Pawn is both versatile and usually non-inhibitory.
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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2011, 07:32:08 am »
0

Instead of making every make a fully ordered list of 157 cards, you should set up a facemash-like thing, where you show us 2 cards at a time and we click the one that we like better. Then maintain an ELO for each card and generate a ranking :)

Yeah, that would be best. But I don't have the time to code it. I know Zuckerberg made it in one night. Ok, let's say it like that: I don't want to code it.
And I still think 157 entries are not that much that someone isn't able to compile a list (or two lists).
If it were 1000 cards, your suggestion would be clearly a better alternative.

A small update to all of you: Already got 5 lists. Very interesting to see similarities and differences.
It seems that the $4 cost list is the most difficult as it has high variance.

Some notes regarding the "Best Card List":
Ask yourself "What card would I prefer buying most of the times?" or in the sense of HiveMindEmulator's suggestion, consider two cards and ask "If those 2 cards are in the supply which card would I buy most of the times?" Also it seems that cards that are strong openers and are otherwise mediocre have the highest variance. I don't know how to deal with that. Maybe you can ask yourself when you're considering such a card "How much changes this card the game if it's in the supply?"

Some notes regarding the "Favourite Card List":
You can rank Chancellor at #1 if you like the concept or like to build a strategy around it. You can rank Torturer at #157 because it's annoying. It totally depends on you. Don't look at the strength and the cost, just consider the fun, the concept, the artwork, whatever... simply "How much do I like this card?"
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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2011, 12:10:15 pm »
0

A small update to all of you: Already got 5 lists. Very interesting to see similarities and differences.

Are you only counting lists that have been PMed to you?
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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2011, 12:13:19 pm »
0

A small update to all of you: Already got 5 lists. Very interesting to see similarities and differences.

Are you only counting lists that have been PMed to you?

I'm guessing so since that's what the original post asked for and the only list posted publicly in this thread so far doesn't conform to the format of either of the lists asked for anyway.
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Qvist

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2011, 01:16:04 pm »
0

A small update to all of you: Already got 5 lists. Very interesting to see similarities and differences.

Are you only counting lists that have been PMed to you?

Yes, so that everyone is unbiased. I cannot value your small list as TINAS said. All cards need to be included in the list, sorry.
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Qvist

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2011, 04:56:08 am »
0

Just wanted to pop this up again. I received 9 "Best" Lists and 4 "Favourite" Lists so far.
Still 11 days to go. Especially the $4's and the $5's still have high variance.
So, I'd appreciate if I'd receive some more lists, especially some "Best" Lists from higher ranked players.
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DrHades

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2011, 08:35:44 am »
0

Ok, I have 2 questions before I get to business  ;D

1. Do you want a list containing 157 cards or 6 list diveded by the cost?

2. If the first, relatively to the cost or absolutely (for example: Chapel is one of the strongest relatively for it's cost, but I still think it is much weaker then any 5+ card)?
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Qvist

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2011, 08:46:58 am »
0

For the "Best" Card List you need to basically make 6 lists divided by cost. Of course you can't compare Chapel and King's Court.
It's still hard to compare cards even if you only take the cards into account which have the same cost.

If you want to submit a "Favourite" Card List, send only one list containing all 157 cards ranked in the order you like. You can put Chapel in the first or the last place. It depends how much you like playing with it or you like the concept of the card.

I hope that helped.
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DrHades

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2011, 12:09:37 pm »
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Yes, that helped, thank you :)
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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2011, 01:24:15 pm »
+4

I'd appreciate if I'd receive some more lists, especially some "Best" Lists from higher ranked players.

Qvist, I think there's sort of a high barrier of entry here. It's a fair amount of work both for the respondent to put together a half dozen lists and for you on your end to manually input all this data into whatever spreadsheet you're using. It's 2011, we have the technology.

I made this poll for the $2 cards in like three minutes…

http://www.zoomerang.com/Survey/WEB22E8M7L8ENJ

You could probably hammer out the full 157 card list in 15 minutes (or spend another 15 and try to find a better survey site, I found that one by googling "create online draggable rankings survey"), post the poll here and I bet you'd get quite a few more responses, and save time on your end.

Just a thought.
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yuma

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2011, 03:03:33 pm »
0

I'd appreciate if I'd receive some more lists, especially some "Best" Lists from higher ranked players.

Qvist, I think there's sort of a high barrier of entry here. It's a fair amount of work both for the respondent to put together a half dozen lists and for you on your end to manually input all this data into whatever spreadsheet you're using. It's 2011, we have the technology.

I made this poll for the $2 cards in like three minutes…

http://www.zoomerang.com/Survey/WEB22E8M7L8ENJ

You could probably hammer out the full 157 card list in 15 minutes (or spend another 15 and try to find a better survey site, I found that one by googling "create online draggable rankings survey"), post the poll here and I bet you'd get quite a few more responses, and save time on your end.

Just a thought.

I replied to Qvist awhile ago and just took the survey. On my end it was much, much simpler and easier than trying to do so in my word document or in my e-mail. Either way, thanks to Qvist for being willing to do this, I am excited to see the completed lists.
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toaster

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2011, 04:14:59 pm »
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Indeed, if you don't mind the course correction, I bet you'd get a lot greater response rate from a survey set up like that.
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Qvist

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #32 on: December 21, 2011, 05:04:47 am »
0

Thanks for the advice. Normally I'm the one who thinks first in something like this.
I just editted the first post.

Quote
Edit: You can use these online surveys too:
Best Cards
Favourite Cards
Please be sure that you put each card in order on the right and don't miss any.
The best/favourite card goes on top.
If you have already submitted, you don't have to take the survey.
And if you don't like that survey, you can still PM me.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #33 on: December 21, 2011, 05:06:42 am »
0

If I've already sent you any lists, do you want me to transfer my answers to the new surveys or will that result in my votes being counted twice? (I don't mind transferring my votes, it won't take long).

Edit: Nevermind. I should read before I post.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 05:09:07 am by Thisisnotasmile »
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toaster

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2011, 05:56:48 am »
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Thanks!  And boy, the top half of the $5 cards was really tough...I especially had a hard time figuring out the ordering of the top 10-15 there.
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Qvist

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #35 on: December 23, 2011, 03:52:04 am »
0

I just wanted to thank you, lympi.
I got new lists in very short time. We're now up to 17 "Best Card Lists" and 6 "Favourite Card Lists".
For the "Best Card List" the variance now seems to decline and I'm pretty confident that we're getting very good results.
I already learned something from it and I hope someone will get benefit from those lists too when I'm gonna publish it.
8 days to go, I would be happy to get some more.
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chwhite

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #36 on: December 23, 2011, 05:31:00 am »
0

Thanks!  And boy, the top half of the $5 cards was really tough...I especially had a hard time figuring out the ordering of the top 10-15 there.

I think the top 15 or so $5 cards are pretty easy, actually; it's numbers 15 through 25 that I keep going back and forth on. :P

Actually, the hardest part of this list was figuring out what I wanted at #5 for the $4 cards.  In general, the $4 cards was the only list that really still has me second-guessing.
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toaster

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #37 on: December 23, 2011, 02:21:12 pm »
0

I think the top 15 or so $5 cards are pretty easy, actually; it's numbers 15 through 25 that I keep going back and forth on. :P

Do you mean collectively or the ordering within them?  Picking out the top 15 or so cards is easy enough, but there are enough good cards in there that ordering them is anything but obvious, so much there is situational.
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Qvist

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #38 on: December 29, 2011, 09:16:38 pm »
0

About 45 hours left.
I received 24 "Best Card Lists" so far. I think we get a very good result of the ranking of all cards. I'm very excited to present it to you.
But of course I would be happy to get more lists. So you have still time to send me your lists. Last chance!
Beginning with the 1st of January I will post 3-5 rankings per day with statistics and comments. I hope you will like it.
I will begin 1st of January with the 3 worst $2 cards.

As I said earlier, I gave points based on the rank of each card. I tried to evualate the arithmetic mean of those points. As some lists were from way better players than other lists, I realised I get better results when I calculate a weighted average. I hope you all agree with this decision. I know that a good player can also rank cards bad and vice versa, but I tried to get a "objective" ranking as a guide for all players, so a weighted ranking seems obvious. I will not do it for the "Favourite Card List". All lists will count the same.
But in the online survey I didn't make the fields mandatory so I received 2 lists without isotropic or dominionstrategy username. If you read this, I would be glad to get your names so your lists will have a higher impact in the final result.

I did not get many lists for the "Favourite Card List".
I decided to postpone the deadline for this list to around 31th January when presenting the "Best Card List" will be over.
I hope the presenting of the "Best Card List" will animate a few more to post the "Favourite Card List" and give you more time to compile the list for yourself as it takes time to rank 157 cards.

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Tables

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #39 on: December 29, 2011, 11:10:25 pm »
0

Can I ask how you're rating players? Just using Isotropic ratings I guess? I think that's a good idea.
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.
I hereby declare myself the best dominion player in the world. Obviously.

Thisisnotasmile

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2011, 05:47:11 am »
0

I tried doing a favourite list but I gave up after about 2 hours when I had about 10 cards ranked. I'm definitely up for helping to create a list of cards based on how fun they are to play rather than how powerful they are, but I don't intend to contribute in the current format. Obviously I don't expect it all to change now because it would be unfair on the people who have submitted lists, but if this happens again I would much prefer to give each card a fun-rating on a scale of 1 to X, for example.

Also, to pre-empt the uproar when Chapel doesn't get maximum possible points on the best list: That was me and I stand by my ranking. I still fully expect it to be number 1 though.
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Fabian

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #41 on: December 30, 2011, 10:23:48 am »
0

Don't do 3 per day or whatever, that's borderline ridiculous. Just post one complete list and let us talk about it. Rolling this out over a month or more.. I can't think of a single good thing with a decision like that. I'd prefer if you just compiled the data and posted it all at once, but if you want to milk it a little with one list a day, I guess that's fine.

In my opinion.

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Qvist

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #42 on: December 30, 2011, 10:48:09 am »
0

@Tables: Oh I forgot that. Yeah, I weighted the lists based on the isotropic level.

@TINAS: Thanks for your feedback. Let's see what we can make out of it.

@Fabian: Hm, I like to write some comments to each card, just like theory did in the Best and Worst Lists.
I'm sure no-one will read a post of all 157 cards with comments. They will all say "tl;dr"
Also, just posting a list of all cards in order doesn't help any new players too much and even experienced players may miss the reason of particular cards ranked in the specific spot.
But if no-one is interested in comments and statistics I can just post the list, that's no problem. But I hoped you may be interested in background information.
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Fabian

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #43 on: December 30, 2011, 11:06:07 am »
0

Since you asked us for our input, I figured these lists were meant to reflect the collective opinion of all respondents. I didn't realize it was also an individual comment thing for you, in which case I'm not sure why you asked us for data in the first place :)

Anyway, alright. In my opinion, a list of all $3 cards ordered by how much the community likes the card is going to tell us exactly that, and nothing more. I don't know what kind of commentary you (or anyone really) could provice to spice that list up, nor what anyone could learn from it other than how popular different cards are relative to each other, which no amount of commentary is going to change. But it is your thread after all :)
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #44 on: December 30, 2011, 11:15:57 am »
0

In my opinion, if the lists are revealed three cards at a time, the fact that they are lists is going to get lost, at least for some. Also, as Fabian says, these lists are based on what the community as a whole believes, so we need to hear the opinion of everyone who wants to contribute (and that includes you, I am certainly not saying your comments are not relevant). However, the community as a whole can't really contribute their opinions on the list when we only know where three cards are.

I feel that it would be best the release the lists one at a time as complete entities. Maybe one per week or more often depending on how long discussion lasts. That way, everybody can see the a whole list at the same time and discuss it together. Of course, you can give your comments too however you originally planned to, just list by list rather than 3 cards by 3 cards.

That's what I think would be best, anyway. It's your list so it's up to you.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #45 on: December 30, 2011, 02:26:55 pm »
0

Regarding the way the lists are released, I think at most you can split the longer lists into 2-3 lists (i.e. 15-20 cards per post). Seeing 3 cards at a time kind of defeats the point of having a list. You don't need to say something about each card. That's a separate project. It would be more interesting to discuss interesting things going on in the lists like for instance a card having a high variance in ranking and guesses as to why.

Also, I'm just curious about how you assigned scores to the cards. Is it linear in rank? It seems that stuff in the middle is kind of randomly ordered and pretty arbitrarily ordered, while more time is spent sorting the top cards, so maybe some non-linear thing is better?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 02:37:30 pm by HiveMindEmulator »
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DrHades

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #46 on: December 30, 2011, 05:29:45 pm »
0

How about Qvist PMed some people who did a list to make a short article about a specific card(s) that he ranked differently than he "should"? Then Qvist will just put it together (with some cards from him of course) post the whole list (or maybe in parts for the $4 and $5). This will take up some time, but I think this is good idea for these 3 reasons:

1. The list will be from community.
2. The comments will be interesting since someone, who put the card somewhere, where it probably doesn't belogn, has probably a strong opinion about it.
3. It would be fun!  ;D

What do you think, guys?

And of course NOBODY (expect for Qvist) will really know the position of the card he is about to review (this seems more fun to me, but we can cut this part out and just first put the list (one every ~5 days) then make the articles).
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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #47 on: December 30, 2011, 05:33:59 pm »
0

Eh. I would either reveal either every cost point in its entirety, one by one (so like the 2s, then 3 days later, the 3s, then three days later, the 4s, etc) or the whole list of every card at least like 15 at a time. Or just a big list dump, which seems totally fine to me too.

DrHades

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #48 on: December 30, 2011, 05:36:22 pm »
0

Eh. I would either reveal either every cost point in its entirety, one by one (so like the 2s, then 3 days later, the 3s, then three days later, the 4s, etc) or the whole list of every card at least like 15 at a time. Or just a big list dump, which seems totally fine to me too.

Yeah, if my idea doesn't get enough attention, I agree with this. 3-5 cards at a time is just too small to be interesting...
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Qvist

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #49 on: December 31, 2011, 12:43:51 pm »
0

About 6 hours to go.
I got very good rankings and can't wait to post them.
Thanks for your feedback to this. I'm definitely not going to post only the rankings. I think many points will get lost.
But I will post more than 3 cards per day as you all suggested. The first post of this thread will include a raw list of all cards in ranked order and a link to the post my comments are posted.
So it is guaranteed the list character won't get lost. But each card has still additional information.
To each card I will post the highest and lowest rank(s), the average, and the deviation.
Then I will comment why I think it is in the rank or why it has such high deviation etc...
Then feel free to comment and discuss the rankings too, if you feel surprised by the ranking and if you agree with me or not.
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DrHades

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #50 on: December 31, 2011, 01:25:37 pm »
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To each card I will post the highest and lowest rank(s), the average, and the deviation.

The average and the deviation will be weighted or not? I think it would be nice to have both...
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DrHades

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s)
« Reply #51 on: January 03, 2012, 08:20:51 am »
+1

And please let me know if you like my comments and the current format.

Format - Great, I think 10-20 cards at a time is ideal, so I would probably cut $3 into 2 pieces in the middle (somewhere where it seems logical by the results), then $4 and $5 maybe into 3 parts (although the middle part might be a bit boring, so I don't know, 2 parts might be enough) and then $6+ and potion as a whole list again...

Your comments - Well, you're not a native speaker and you're not "supertop" player  ;D But neither am I so I cannot complain much :) I think your comments are quite objective (which is definitely nice, since this is a democratic list, not your list) and good, although sometimes you forget to mention something (Hamlet+Menagerie/Library).

Statistics - I would be happy to see more statistic things (like median or mode)...
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Fabian

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $2 cards posted
« Reply #52 on: January 03, 2012, 09:42:32 am »
0

Is there any way to look at my list(s) if I didn't save them myself? It'd be kinda interesting to see how it matches up, and I've forgotten all about it by now of course.

Thanks for doing this. I must admit I didn't read the comments past the first few cards, but those are probably meant for a different type of player. From what I did see, there are so many inaccuracies and/or half truths that I wouldn't recommend them to an intermediate player, for fear of him learning the wrong things, though. Why can't you draw a Lighthouse dead, but you can draw a Moat dead?
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Qvist

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $2 cards posted
« Reply #53 on: January 03, 2012, 12:02:56 pm »
0

Okay, so I've already put my hands up that I ranked Chapel number 3 (and stand by that). Who's the other guy?

I originally meant to write the player names to the highest and lowst ranks, but I realized some may want to stay anonymous. So I think I won't spoil that.

Edit: Also, nice list. I'm pretty happy with how it's turned out. My only concern is that Fool's Gold is as high as it is, but I'm sure that'll be down to the people in the simulating board who have convinced themselves it's an unbeatable power card and have grown blind to the word "Fool's" in it's name. Also, it certainly is possible to draw Lighthouse dead, but that's the only adjustment I'd make to the text.

Thanks for your feedback. Yeah, you can draw Lighthouse dead and I didn't meant to write that. I used the wrong words, sorry. I meant "colliding" not "drawing dead". I'll change that.

@Lighthouse. The point with Lighthouse is that in many decks (Village-Torturer, Minion) 2 Lighthouses can prevent you entirely from being attacked, because it matters which cards you will see during your whole turn, not only which cards are in your hand when you're attacked, like in Moat. There are situations where that it not a great difference, and in this cases Lighthouse is about at bad as Moat, but there are Situations where you draw you're whole deck anyway, and than you really like the Lighthouses.

@Cellar. There are also the times where I love risking to discard my Coppers for the Estates, if therefore I can play my Mountebank more often. But honestly that mostly requires a 5/2-start.
I fully agree DStu, that's exactly my opinion. Moat has to be one of your 5 cards in hand. Lighthouse doesn't have to. You can play a village, then draw it and then play it.

A slight quarrel - "Haven can't hurt you"

Haven draws one card, and then you must set aside Haven and one card. So in the absence of other drawing, it does reduce your handsize by one (in exchange for increasing it next turn). Of course, you're no worse off than before you drew Haven per se, but if you need everything in your hand and you like what you draw, it can cause some irritating moments.
You're right. If you haven't bought it, you would have drawn the card in hand. But I still think Haven doesn't hurt most of the time. If you really need the drawn card, there's mostly another card, like an Estate, you can set aside.

Format - Great, I think 10-20 cards at a time is ideal, so I would probably cut $3 into 2 pieces in the middle (somewhere where it seems logical by the results), then $4 and $5 maybe into 3 parts (although the middle part might be a bit boring, so I don't know, 2 parts might be enough) and then $6+ and potion as a whole list again...

Your comments - Well, you're not a native speaker and you're not "supertop" player  ;D But neither am I so I cannot complain much :) I think your comments are quite objective (which is definitely nice, since this is a democratic list, not your list) and good, although sometimes you forget to mention something (Hamlet+Menagerie/Library).

Statistics - I would be happy to see more statistic things (like median or mode)...

Yeah, exactly I was goint to do that. The $3 list will be split into two parts, the $4 and $5s into three parts and the rest will be one list.
I know that I'm not a supertop player ranking-wise. I play mostly just for fun and trying out strategies, not only to win. I hope reaching the 4th round in the tournament proved that I can play well if I really want. My comments meant to be objective, yes. Sometimes I add a sentence with my personal opinion. I'm not going into detail in each possibly synergy or combo, because I fear such long posts no-one will read. I just try to explain the rank each card is, so I try to show each cards strengths and weaknesses. I have the (unweighted) median in my report, but I'm going to post it only when it differs from the order. If I ranked the $2 card by median, the order wouldn't have changed, so I left no comment. The mode I already posted in cases it seemed interesting for me. In the $4 and $5 lists it become less interesting, but I'll take that into account every time, I promise.

Is there any way to look at my list(s) if I didn't save them myself? It'd be kinda interesting to see how it matches up, and I've forgotten all about it by now of course.

Thanks for doing this. I must admit I didn't read the comments past the first few cards, but those are probably meant for a different type of player. From what I did see, there are so many inaccuracies and/or half truths that I wouldn't recommend them to an intermediate player, for fear of him learning the wrong things, though. Why can't you draw a Lighthouse dead, but you can draw a Moat dead?

I can send your list to you if you want. As mentioned above, I didn't meant to write "drawing dead", I meant "colliding", I'll correct that. Can you tell me other inaccuracies, please?

You can't King's Court an Embargo...  just saying.
You can. Just like Feast.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $2 cards posted
« Reply #54 on: January 03, 2012, 02:56:54 pm »
0

[Cellar] is one of 4 cards (with the 3 mentioned above) that I would buy only with $2.
Then you're missing out. In decks where you're trying to draw a lot of cards, it's better than silver a LOT of the time.

Statistics - I would be happy to see more statistic things (like median or mode)...
+1 to this. I think with a wide range of people ranking this, median is the most stable statistic to look at (lessening the effect of people ranking courtyard #10...)

Oh and if we're trying to find the ranking outliers, I'm responsible for a couple of them. I think I had Moat ranked 8 and crossroads 11. While there are situations in which crossroads is brilliant, the same can be said of secret chamber. Most of the time it's not really any better than cellar. I think Native village is killer much more often and should be above it. Pawn is maybe not as extreme, but really good a LOT of the time. The other two on the list that were low and I put above crossroads are embargo and moat. These are a little more debatable, but I think embargo has a huge impact even when it doesn't get bought and moat is super-underrated.

From the text: "If there's Mountebank in the supply and you're playing a 4-player-game, Moat might be a good buy." Might? In that situation, I think Moat is a MUST-buy, and I probably open moat/silver most of the time. "But if you're playing a 2-player game, buying Moat is mostly superfluous. Buying a trasher more against Cursers...is mostly the better alternative." You might be surprised if you simulate it in geronimoo's simulator. Just add a single remake or a single moat to the witch bot. Which do you think is better? Witch+Moat beast Witch+Remake 53-43.   Now I'm not saying just getting a trasher instead is not better some (or even a lot) of the time, but it's not like witch games transitioning into big money is a major outliar situation.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2012, 03:00:51 pm by HiveMindEmulator »
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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $2 cards posted
« Reply #55 on: January 03, 2012, 08:45:52 pm »
+1

As a side observation, this really makes me want the ability to filter Council Room's popular buys page by card cost.
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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $2 cards posted
« Reply #56 on: January 04, 2012, 01:19:25 am »
+2

It might be nice to see a graph of for each card, x axis is the isotropic level of the raters, and y axis is the rank.

Maybe you'll see trends with the under/overrated cards.
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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $2 cards posted
« Reply #57 on: January 04, 2012, 05:11:35 am »
0

It might be nice to see a graph of for each card, x axis is the isotropic level of the raters, and y axis is the rank.

Maybe you'll see trends with the under/overrated cards.

I would love to see this but there's only one person who has the stats to do it, and he's put in a lot of work already.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $2 cards posted
« Reply #58 on: January 04, 2012, 08:29:21 pm »
0

As I said above, an unweighted ranking or using Median wouldn' have changed the order of the $2 cards. So I didn't mentioned that. I will mention that if it would be a difference, you will see.
I think the request was just to display the median and mode, not re-order the list. We just want to see as many stats as possible if it's not too much trouble.

Quote
It might be nice to see a graph of for each card, x axis is the isotropic level of the raters, and y axis is the rank.

Maybe you'll see trends with the under/overrated cards.
Nice idea. Let's see what I can do. But: All lists are still weighted by isotropic rank, so I think those graphs won't tell you anything new.
A weighted average is a nice summary statistic to get an overall rank, but it would also be nice to see if there is any correlation between card rank and iso level. If it's too much trouble to post a graph, maybe at least compute a correlation coefficient? Again, I'm not trying to be too demanding, as you're already doing a lot of work, but the more stats we see the better. :)
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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $2 cards posted
« Reply #59 on: January 04, 2012, 08:57:34 pm »
0

From the text: "If there's Mountebank in the supply and you're playing a 4-player-game, Moat might be a good buy." Might? In that situation, I think Moat is a MUST-buy, and I probably open moat/silver most of the time. "But if you're playing a 2-player game, buying Moat is mostly superfluous. Buying a trasher more against Cursers...is mostly the better alternative." You might be surprised if you simulate it in geronimoo's simulator. Just add a single remake or a single moat to the witch bot. Which do you think is better? Witch+Moat beast Witch+Remake 53-43.   Now I'm not saying just getting a trasher instead is not better some (or even a lot) of the time, but it's not like witch games transitioning into big money is a major outliar situation.
You're wrong if you think Geronimoo's simulator proves that Witch+Moat beats Witch+Remake. The basic Witch+Remake bot plays extremely poorly: it doesn't trash Witch when Curse pile is empty, it doesn't trash Curse+Silver when there is no good buy on the hand, etc. Just read the documentation for Remake.
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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $2 cards posted
« Reply #60 on: January 04, 2012, 10:56:07 pm »
0

As I said above, an unweighted ranking or using Median wouldn' have changed the order of the $2 cards. So I didn't mentioned that. I will mention that if it would be a difference, you will see.
I think the request was just to display the median and mode, not re-order the list. We just want to see as many stats as possible if it's not too much trouble.
Yes, my point exactly. I think it would be nice if you (Qvist) put the median and mode everywhere (2 extra numbers for each card won't kill anyone) but only comment on them when they are interesting...or at least median, pleeeeeeease  ;D
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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $2 cards posted
« Reply #61 on: January 04, 2012, 11:50:00 pm »
0

What format is the dataset in?  Why not just open the dataset and let people do whatever analysis they want?
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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $3 cards Part 2/2 posted
« Reply #62 on: January 07, 2012, 06:19:13 pm »
+1

I've gotta say, these community card rankings turned out really great, it worked much better than I thought it would.
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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $3 cards Part 2/2 posted
« Reply #63 on: January 07, 2012, 11:03:42 pm »
0

Watchtower basically does a bunch of things reasonably well. It's one of the best defenses against anything but deck inspection attacks(and all of those suck anyway except swindler, which watchtower is still okay against), you can build a reasonable engine around it, and every now and then it does a royal seal impression. I really like watchtower, it's one of my favorite cards; I probably would've liked it a little higher on the list, even.
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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $3 cards Part 2/2 posted
« Reply #64 on: January 08, 2012, 12:21:47 am »
+2

Steward ranked above Menagerie?  A pedestrian trasher (with admittedly a little more late-game use than some others) that's less and less important with each expansion, ranked over the most cost-effective engine card in the game?  Shenanigans, I say. Shenanigans!

That's really the only thing strikingly wrong about this list, but boy is it strikingly wrong.  (FWIW I had Steward at #7 and Menagerie at #3, yes I was one of the people who ranked it over Fishing Village).
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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $3 cards Part 2/2 posted
« Reply #65 on: January 08, 2012, 12:25:45 am »
0

I've gotta say, these community card rankings turned out really great, it worked much better than I thought it would.

I'd bet that Qvist's decision to weight by isotropic rank is really helping to keep the numbers in line.  (That and the readers here are generally pretty good at Dominion to begin with.)
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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #66 on: January 14, 2012, 07:22:58 pm »
0

Thanks for compiling this thread, it is very interesting - it is also helping me to decide which expansion to purchase! (Currently, Seaside)
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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #67 on: January 16, 2012, 12:01:17 pm »
+1

Short meta question: Does anyone think these threads would be better off if they were split a bit more?  Maybe different topics per cost?
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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #68 on: January 16, 2012, 12:09:16 pm »
0

Short meta question: Does anyone think these threads would be better off if they were split a bit more?  Maybe different topics per cost?
Yes.

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #69 on: January 16, 2012, 12:28:31 pm »
0

Yes, and please edit the first post in each to have the full lists.
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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): $4 cards Part 2/3 posted
« Reply #70 on: January 16, 2012, 12:46:36 pm »
0

Short meta question: Does anyone think these threads would be better off if they were split a bit more?  Maybe different topics per cost?

I vote yes.
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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): Meta-discussion
« Reply #71 on: January 16, 2012, 02:16:55 pm »
0

Argh, so I screwed up the split.

Basically you can't move posts between topics after they have been created.  You can only split a topic into two once.  So I can't incrementally move some meta discussion posts into their own threads, I needed to do it all at once.

Which means I've splintered some of the discussion.  Sorry!
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theory

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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): Meta-discussion
« Reply #72 on: January 16, 2012, 02:31:17 pm »
0

This is what you get for trying to do forum moderation, you uncivilized barbarian of statistics.

There is a way, but it's a little complex.  You split, and then split again, and then use "merge topics" at the bottom of the screen.

I think we can just leave them merged for now, and then create new topics duplicating the content.
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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): Meta-discussion
« Reply #73 on: January 16, 2012, 02:39:03 pm »
0

Okay, I figured out the merge trick.  I think (with the exception of a few mis-classified posts), it's a lot more orderly now.
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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): Introduction and meta-discussion
« Reply #74 on: January 16, 2012, 02:49:41 pm »
0

Unfortunately, now the links to the actual lists on this OP are now broken. I guess they need to be fixed, and some need to be added to the top of each of the now separated threads.
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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): Introduction and meta-discussion
« Reply #75 on: January 16, 2012, 03:10:39 pm »
0

I think I've got all of the links from the OP to the sublists fixed now.
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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): Introduction and meta-discussion
« Reply #76 on: January 16, 2012, 03:45:41 pm »
0

Hey, thanks for this. I didn't want to create so many threads as I didn't know from the start if this project will be well received. Any new feedback is welcome.
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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): Introduction and meta-discussion
« Reply #77 on: January 25, 2012, 02:10:05 pm »
0

I posted an idea about exploiting using the community rankings on councilroom here:

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=1559
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Re: THE Dominion Card List(s): Introduction and meta-discussion
« Reply #78 on: February 07, 2012, 03:59:27 am »
0

As the "Best Card List" comes to an end now, if anybody wants to submit their "Favourite Card List" and if there are enough votes, this will follow soon.

And I like to cross-post this from the other thread as I'm not sure if everybody has read that:

I definitely did want to do that [a ranking of the expansions]. But I realised that's hardly possible to rank the sets, because we have no ordered list of all cards.
I started before I found a fitting formula. But I thought a little bit more about it and came up with the following.
Each card gets a percentage value based on how many cards in that list are below this card that are not in the same set.
For example: Militia is #8 out of 43 in the $4 list. But it is the best card of the set (with 10 $4 cards), so it has a value of 26/33 or ~79%
After that I calculate the mean average of all cards of the same set. Alchemy has still a problem with only 2 cards, the rest can't be compared.

This leads to the following ranking:

#1 Cornucopia 64%
#2 Prosperity 61%
#3 Seaside 56%
#4 Intrigue 48%
#5 Hinterlands 44%
#6 Base 41%
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