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Author Topic: A new approach to the "Team" Dominion tournament  (Read 4352 times)

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Awaclus

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A new approach to the "Team" Dominion tournament
« on: June 18, 2014, 07:13:19 am »
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I had this idea, which might be impossible in practice, but I like the idea so I'll share it.

What if, instead of having four players per team play six games each against each other, we had a team of four (or whichever number works best) players connected to each other through Skype (or another platform), making the decisions together, and playing a total of six games against another team? The captain of each team would be the one to actually do the clicking on Goko, so that he would have the final word on everything in case there was a disagreement, and he could do some trivial stuff such as playing Villages before Smithies on his own to make the game faster.

The problem here, of course, is that finding a time when all 8 players are available could prove to be difficult, especially if the tournament was played with national teams like the previous Team Dominion tournament was. You can reduce the difficulty by using three-player teams, especially since I think that four players might be a little overkill for this kind of tournament anyway. That would mean less people whose schedules have to align, and more people that can be used as replacements. If you mix up people from different countries in each team, it might get a little easier, too, since there won't be the inevitable match where two teams from totally different timezones have to play against each other, but that might make it more difficult to communicate, since then the teams wouldn't necessarily have a common native language.

Another problem is that someone would have to organize the tournament.


What do you think? Would it be possible to pull this off in reality, or just on paper? Is the idea even interesting enough to try out?
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RTT

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Re: A new approach to the "Team" Dominion tournament
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2014, 07:38:16 am »
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i think this is a boring idea for the ones who dont play. especially since the best player plays the game he will most-likely know the best move himself without others telling him. also how do the others see the game without a spectating mode in goko? streaming would be possible but then theres a 20s delay.

also there are the other issues you mentioned like scheduling.

so basicly i think it a neat idea but not really worth the effort...
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AdamH

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Re: A new approach to the "Team" Dominion tournament
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2014, 07:47:55 am »
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Perhaps it's best to have teams of two people, since you have to pay money for Skype Premium to enable screen sharing on calls with more than two people in them.

You can test the idea by playing exhibition games.
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Lekkit

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Re: A new approach to the "Team" Dominion tournament
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2014, 07:49:46 am »
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also how do the others see the game without a spectating mode in goko? streaming would be possible but then theres a 20s delay.

It's possible to share your screen through Skype.
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MarkowKette

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Re: A new approach to the "Team" Dominion tournament
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2014, 07:56:42 am »
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I like the idea, but yeah i also agree with some of the worries that were mentioned.
Teams of more than 3 players don't make any sense in my eyes. Also i think it wouldnt really work to put people in teams
"semi-randomly"  I think this would work better for teams of players that regularly play with each other.
Screensharing via Skype seems like a good realization and like Adam pointed out that would be better for 2 player teams.

We could run a smaller Test Run tournament with 4 Teams à 2 players maybe?  Something that can be done in a few hours of time over 1 or 2 days and not longer. I'd be up for it. If that goes well and the players like the mode we can think further in this direction.
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Awaclus

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Re: A new approach to the "Team" Dominion tournament
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2014, 08:04:08 am »
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i think this is a boring idea for the ones who dont play. especially since the best player plays the game he will most-likely know the best move himself without others telling him.
It's interesting enough to just watch really high level players play against each other and discuss what they really should have done in the Twitch chat, this shouldn't be any less interesting.

since you have to pay money for Skype Premium to enable screen sharing on calls with more than two people in them.
Well, it looks like this is what I get for not being familiar enough with Skype. Oh well, each additional player adds less anyway, so it could still be worth it with just two.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2014, 08:11:01 am by Awaclus »
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SCSN

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Re: A new approach to the "Team" Dominion tournament
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2014, 08:31:47 am »
+2

I do like experimenting with formats, but this particular one doesn't appeal to me, because the plays that are most likely to spark debate are precisely the plays that I have a strong intuitive feeling about but whose logic I may not be able to convincingly put into words within the short amount of time available for it, and I want to make the best plays, not the plays that are easiest to defend and reach a consensus about.

An alternative format that has been proposed sometime in the past but afaik has never been tried is 2-player teams playing against each other in a 4-player game, with the team winning if one of the player wins. I don't know whether it would be more or less fun if you'd allow the team to communicate during the game. I'd really like to try this one out.

And fwiw, you can share your screen using TeamViewer (which is free) with as many people as you want. It's what AI used when sharing his GD final match with Mic and me, and what Jerni uses to embed his screen in my stream.
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AdamH

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Re: A new approach to the "Team" Dominion tournament
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2014, 08:52:06 am »
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I do like experimenting with formats, but this particular one doesn't appeal to me, because the plays that are most likely to spark debate are precisely the plays that I have a strong intuitive feeling about but whose logic I may not be able to convincingly put into words within the short amount of time available for it, and I want to make the best plays, not the plays that are easiest to defend and reach a consensus about.

ZOMG we need to be on the same team. For serious.
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RTT

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Re: A new approach to the "Team" Dominion tournament
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2014, 09:01:36 am »
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Perhaps it's best to have teams of two people, since you have to pay money for Skype Premium to enable screen sharing on calls with more than two people in them.

You can test the idea by playing exhibition games.
i think they even changed that recently or are going to make it free soon.
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liopoil

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Re: A new approach to the "Team" Dominion tournament
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2014, 09:27:53 am »
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An alternative format that has been proposed sometime in the past but afaik has never been tried is 2-player teams playing against each other in a 4-player game, with the team winning if one of the player wins. I don't know whether it would be more or less fun if you'd allow the team to communicate during the game. I'd really like to try this one out.
woah, that sounds really cool.

"You okay if I play this mountebank?"
"Yeah, go ahead, I've got a curse in hand"

"I've got 8, but I don't really have a chance of winning this one and you do, and you need more provinces in the supply for your engine, so I'll just buy a noble brigand instead"

"I don't have a chance of winning this one, but you're currently winning with 3 provinces left in the supply, so I'll just ambassador this province and not return it to the supply"

And on boards with multiple strategies, the two players on a team could each take different strategies.

The only problem is that 4-player isn't fun.
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RTT

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Re: A new approach to the "Team" Dominion tournament
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2014, 09:37:56 am »
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ans one problem was than goko doesnt let you choose player order.
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-Stef-

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Re: A new approach to the "Team" Dominion tournament
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2014, 09:58:00 am »
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ans one problem was than goko doesnt let you choose player order.

Yes 24 possibilities so you definitely don't want to hunt for a specific one.

I would suggest the rule "just start a random game and only restart if #1 and #2 are from the same team"

#1&#3 vs #2&#4 should be quite an advantage, but not much more then just P1 vs P2.
#1&#4 vs #2&#3 would be weird but quite balanced. Cards like advisor or envoy are quite strong if you have a friend on your left. Masquerade would be amazing.

Sindler is OP regardless of the turn order.
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Awaclus

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Re: A new approach to the "Team" Dominion tournament
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2014, 10:16:13 am »
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ans one problem was than goko doesnt let you choose player order.

Yes 24 possibilities so you definitely don't want to hunt for a specific one.

I would suggest the rule "just start a random game and only restart if #1 and #2 are from the same team"

#1&#3 vs #2&#4 should be quite an advantage, but not much more then just P1 vs P2.
#1&#4 vs #2&#3 would be weird but quite balanced. Cards like advisor or envoy are quite strong if you have a friend on your left. Masquerade would be amazing.

Sindler is OP regardless of the turn order.
If you're just playing for fun, you can always do #1&#4 vs #2&#3 by deciding the teams based on the seat order. Perhaps even in a competitive setting it could work by counting points for each individual player despite playing in teams. EDIT: On second thoughts, probably not. It's pretty bad if you always get paired with the worst player in the group, and pretty good if you always get paired with the best player in the group.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2014, 10:18:46 am by Awaclus »
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GendoIkari

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Re: A new approach to the "Team" Dominion tournament
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2014, 10:04:26 am »
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I do like experimenting with formats, but this particular one doesn't appeal to me, because the plays that are most likely to spark debate are precisely the plays that I have a strong intuitive feeling about but whose logic I may not be able to convincingly put into words within the short amount of time available for it, and I want to make the best plays, not the plays that are easiest to defend and reach a consensus about.

"I just KNOW Scout is the right opening here. Don't ask me to explain; I can't. But it jut is, trust me."
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Re: A new approach to the "Team" Dominion tournament
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2014, 10:09:45 am »
+6

I do like experimenting with formats, but this particular one doesn't appeal to me, because the plays that are most likely to spark debate are precisely the plays that I have a strong intuitive feeling about but whose logic I may not be able to convincingly put into words within the short amount of time available for it, and I want to make the best plays, not the plays that are easiest to defend and reach a consensus about.

"I just KNOW Scout is the right opening here. Don't ask me to explain; I can't. But it jut is, trust me."

http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20130428/log.505d732a51c359e6597efeb8.1367160853536.txt
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