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werothegreat

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #1075 on: November 13, 2015, 09:02:24 am »
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Just faced a Shaman with Mistcaller.  Man, that card is strong when the game is all about minions on curve...

Why does no one run it in constructed?

Something about "poor stats" or some shit
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #1076 on: November 13, 2015, 10:50:00 am »
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Just faced a Shaman with Mistcaller.  Man, that card is strong when the game is all about minions on curve...

Why does no one run it in constructed?

Something about "poor stats" or some shit

It's actually terrible. The number of minions you need to play to make it worth it is too many, and 1/1 on minions doesn't stop aggro in anyway. In arena there's a chance to get the value from it you need. But if you're behind it won't help you win because 4/4 for 6 is just so small. So I say it's still just an ok card in arena.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #1077 on: November 13, 2015, 11:10:03 am »
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It's actually terrible. The number of minions you need to play to make it worth it is too many, and 1/1 on minions doesn't stop aggro in anyway. In arena there's a chance to get the value from it you need. But if you're behind it won't help you win because 4/4 for 6 is just so small. So I say it's still just an ok card in arena.
Yeah I'd say even in arena it's pretty questionable.  I lost an arena game yesterday as a rogue despite playing a 6/7 shado-pan on turn 4.  (Still not really sure how, I had a bad start but so many good cards one after the other from like turn 3.  He just kept pulling paladin bull, I was about one turn short of stabilising. I'm still salty.)  So yeah if a 4-mana Boulderfist sometimes isn't fast enough, I don't see how a 6-mana yeti-minus is gonna be reliable!
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #1078 on: November 13, 2015, 02:44:25 pm »
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Just faced a Shaman with Mistcaller.  Man, that card is strong when the game is all about minions on curve...

Why does no one run it in constructed?

Something about "poor stats" or some shit

It's actually terrible. The number of minions you need to play to make it worth it is too many, and 1/1 on minions doesn't stop aggro in anyway. In arena there's a chance to get the value from it you need. But if you're behind it won't help you win because 4/4 for 6 is just so small. So I say it's still just an ok card in arena.

I don't know man, he played it T5 with coin, then proceeded to always play a minion that was 1/1 stronger than it cost.  I had a lot of trouble continually trying to remove minions to keep board control, which I eventually lost.

If you play 4-6 minions over T6-8, it's tough.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #1079 on: November 13, 2015, 04:28:20 pm »
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Just faced a Shaman with Mistcaller.  Man, that card is strong when the game is all about minions on curve...

Why does no one run it in constructed?

Something about "poor stats" or some shit

It's actually terrible. The number of minions you need to play to make it worth it is too many, and 1/1 on minions doesn't stop aggro in anyway. In arena there's a chance to get the value from it you need. But if you're behind it won't help you win because 4/4 for 6 is just so small. So I say it's still just an ok card in arena.

I don't know man, he played it T5 with coin, then proceeded to always play a minion that was 1/1 stronger than it cost.  I had a lot of trouble continually trying to remove minions to keep board control, which I eventually lost.

If you play 4-6 minions over T6-8, it's tough.

Shaman is a class that needs to be on board early, and then stay there. Their AoE is rare or epic, and still not great. Overload makes them lose tempo on turns after they play strong cards. So if the game was even until T5 when he played mistcaller, then he'll probably do pretty well. But if you're behind, you'll just get out tempoed. 1 big minion a turn can't kill lots of small minions. And all it takes is 1 turn to do enough dmg that you can't come back from the value mistcaller gives you.

Heartharena rates it as 76. That's rated as "good", and I'd agree. It's good, but it's not amazing. Hogger is rated better, so is Toshley, and most legendaries that are considered good in arena are higher than Mistcaller.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #1080 on: November 14, 2015, 12:43:09 pm »
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My best arena run ever, got 10 wins.  375 gold is cray-cray!

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/4a92i7

Didn't feel like a very good draft at all, but worked out.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #1081 on: November 14, 2015, 10:52:43 pm »
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Anyone else stand with ADWCTA and Merps on the whole HearthArena drama?

As someone who has been watching them since before they were big deals, I remember countless references to "late nights tweaking the algorithms" and other similar things.  It sucks that HA and those two are parting ways.  Looking forward to whatever comparable site/drafting-assistant that they put together (if they follow through with their plan to do so).
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #1082 on: November 14, 2015, 11:15:27 pm »
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Anyone else stand with ADWCTA and Merps on the whole HearthArena drama?

As someone who has been watching them since before they were big deals, I remember countless references to "late nights tweaking the algorithms" and other similar things.  It sucks that HA and those two are parting ways.  Looking forward to whatever comparable site/drafting-assistant that they put together (if they follow through with their plan to do so).
Did you read the response? https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3sjizj/in_response_to_the_farewell_post/
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #1083 on: November 15, 2015, 04:58:11 am »
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The two parties couldn't come to an agreement.  There's no good guys or bad guys.  Nothing illegal happened.

All bargaining should have some chance of resulting in a no-deal.  Otherwise you're not bargaining hard enough.  Happens.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #1084 on: November 15, 2015, 06:25:17 am »
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Anyone else stand with ADWCTA and Merps on the whole HearthArena drama?

As someone who has been watching them since before they were big deals, I remember countless references to "late nights tweaking the algorithms" and other similar things.  It sucks that HA and those two are parting ways.  Looking forward to whatever comparable site/drafting-assistant that they put together (if they follow through with their plan to do so).
Did you read the response? https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3sjizj/in_response_to_the_farewell_post/

Yeah, it's hard to sift through all the he said/she said.  Either way it stinks.  I'm still going to be following ADWCTA and Merps.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2015, 06:30:22 am by () | (_) ^/ »
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popsofctown

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #1085 on: November 15, 2015, 03:01:43 pm »
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I think if the programmer didn't at least offer to sell equity to merps and awdcta at a reasonable price, then he is kind of in the wrong.  Equity isn't priceless, and even if the two overstated the work they actually put in on the product, being a lead spokesperson/image management for the product is enough involvement to justify an offer of equity.

I suspect merps and awdcta might have wanted equity for free or as a term of the contract, though, which is greedy.  Making the program pick cards better is the fun part.  And they took no risks at all. 

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blueblimp

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #1086 on: November 15, 2015, 03:51:00 pm »
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As you say it was simply a disagreement over business, and that's okay all around until ADWCTA took it to reddit and made it a personal mission to destroy Heartharena ("I hope that streamers, organizations and other expert Arena players alike, including Cloud9, will stand with us on this, and not help the programmer to continue to exploit our work product"). That's unprofessional and simply nasty. He got paid what he was promised, and that should be the end of it.

ADWCTA's post is also filled with many obvious distortions intended to exaggerate his importance and minimize the importance of the owner. Read between the lines, and read the response, and it's clear: the owner created Heartharena long before ADWCTA became involved, does all the programming, all the design, works full-time on the project, and puts his money into all the costs. That's not just "the programmer", that's the everything. Somebody with those skills could easily be making six figures salary if they wanted. Meanwhile, infinite arena players and wannabe Hearthstone pros are a dime a dozen. The fact that ADWCTA even thinks he+merps deserve 30% of Heartharena just shows how out of touch he is with reality.

If anything, giving ADWCTA's bragging that he has a "fair share of contacts from the business side", it sounds more like he's trying to exploit the owner by demanding an excessive share than the other way around. He took it on originally as a fun hobby, and then got greedy when he saw there was actually money to be made.

I'm not saying the owner is 100% in the right, if indeed he never offered even a small amount of equity. I'm not an expert on these things but it seems like he would have been better off trying to retain ADWCTA+merps by offering a small amount of equity rather than risking the consequences of a split. But the bet he's making is that either he can keep the algorithm updated himself or contract another strong arena player who can express intuition using numbers, this time hopefully without an overinflated ego. I wouldn't bet against that.
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Jorbles

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #1087 on: November 15, 2015, 06:21:48 pm »
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On another topic, how bout that new Warrior card? Finally a result from #ArenaWarriorsMatter.
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werothegreat

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #1088 on: November 15, 2015, 07:43:20 pm »
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On another topic, how bout that new Warrior card? Finally a result from #ArenaWarriorsMatter.

I'm guessing you mean the Monkey and not HoggerLite?
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #1089 on: November 15, 2015, 08:35:28 pm »
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On another topic, how bout that new Warrior card? Finally a result from #ArenaWarriorsMatter.

I'm guessing you mean the Monkey and not HoggerLite?
They are both great, but I think HoggerLite is more helpful.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #1090 on: November 15, 2015, 08:37:24 pm »
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On another topic, how bout that new Warrior card? Finally a result from #ArenaWarriorsMatter.

I'm guessing you mean the Monkey and not HoggerLite?
They are both great, but I think HoggerLite is more helpful.

I was definitely talking about HoggerLite, but the Monkey is good too.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #1091 on: November 16, 2015, 06:36:04 pm »
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Now Warrior only needs 6 other good commons as well as a card that instantly replaces his hero power and isn't epic or legendary, to be a good arena class.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #1092 on: November 16, 2015, 07:08:54 pm »
+1

Now Warrior only needs 6 other good commons as well as a card that instantly replaces his hero power and isn't epic or legendary, to be a good arena class.

It will always be the worst class. But that's not a problem. It's only a problem that they are the worst by such a huge margin that you have to be crazy to pick warrior.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #1093 on: November 23, 2015, 09:14:36 pm »
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Current Arena run (Mage), 3-0 so far:

clockwork gnome
leper gnome

arcane explosion
flamecannon x2
amani berserker
dire wolf alpha
haunted creeper
snowchugger

duplicate
forgotten torch x2
ice barrier
mirror entity
coliseum manager
kirin tor mage
shattered sun cleric
soot spewer

polymorph
dalarn aspirant
defender of argus
goblin blastmage
violet teacher

azure drake
bomb lobber
ethereal conjurer x2
silver hand knight

boulderfist ogre x2

EDIT: Picked all of these myself, by the way, since HearthArena was down at the time.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 09:16:26 pm by werothegreat »
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #1094 on: November 23, 2015, 10:42:47 pm »
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I'm interested if Ethereal Conjurer is any good in arena in the end. The deck looks decent, with a few cards that do nothing, like ice barrier.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #1095 on: November 23, 2015, 10:52:03 pm »
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I'm interested if Ethereal Conjurer is any good in arena in the end.

I think it certainly is. Mage has some pretty powerful spells, there aren't a lot of bad ones, and getting to choose the best one out of three is super good. The body is pretty weak, but it can be situationally good too if the opponent doesn't have small minions or removal.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #1096 on: November 23, 2015, 10:58:17 pm »
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Got to Duplicate Ethereal Conjurer.  That felt nice.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #1097 on: November 24, 2015, 09:40:27 am »
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And what spells did you get out of them and did those spells secure you some wins?
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #1098 on: November 24, 2015, 10:41:00 am »
+1

And what spells did you get out of them and did those spells secure you some wins?

I've gotten Forgotten Torch, Arcane Missiles, Mirror Image, Polymorph... these have helped seal wins, or proc Violet Teacher, or eradicate a minion...  Also while the 6/3 body is very vulnerable and dies on the opponent's next turn half the time, it's quite a threat, which means they usually spend their entire turn getting rid of it.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #1099 on: November 24, 2015, 11:04:37 am »
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And what spells did you get out of them and did those spells secure you some wins?

I've gotten Forgotten Torch, Arcane Missiles, Mirror Image, Polymorph... these have helped seal wins, or proc Violet Teacher, or eradicate a minion...  Also while the 6/3 body is very vulnerable and dies on the opponent's next turn half the time, it's quite a threat, which means they usually spend their entire turn getting rid of it.

It also gives you a chance to discover a Flamestrike, which is often devastating in Arena.
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