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Author Topic: Arena General Discussion  (Read 329329 times)

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ycz6

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #975 on: October 18, 2015, 04:05:10 am »
+1

Just your typical Mage deck at 9-2: http://i.imgur.com/INV0ki0.jpg
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popsofctown

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #976 on: October 18, 2015, 02:32:00 pm »
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So I guess she unstable portal'ed the knight, and the knight made everything else? But, the (creepy music plays) the arrangement is wrong..
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ashersky

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #977 on: October 19, 2015, 03:13:24 pm »
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #978 on: October 19, 2015, 03:17:18 pm »
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I guess.. you might get run over, though.
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Jorbles

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #979 on: October 19, 2015, 03:57:53 pm »
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Is this a good draft?

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/z0556s

It's okay. Your early game is mediocre, but you can always get lucky on the mulligans. You're relying a lot on drawing your board clear or removal and getting control back around turns 5-7 then winning with your big dudes.

It's a tough deck to play because you don't have really strong early game or convincing late game so you kinda need to guess a bit on whether you think you should be playing for an aggressive win when you pull a tempo advantage or if you should be trying to out control your opponents and going late game. These are the types of decks I struggle with a lot. I'd much rather play something really aggressive or with really strong late game so the choices are easier.
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ashersky

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #980 on: October 19, 2015, 04:30:43 pm »
+1

Is this a good draft?

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/z0556s

It's okay. Your early game is mediocre, but you can always get lucky on the mulligans. You're relying a lot on drawing your board clear or removal and getting control back around turns 5-7 then winning with your big dudes.

It's a tough deck to play because you don't have really strong early game or convincing late game so you kinda need to guess a bit on whether you think you should be playing for an aggressive win when you pull a tempo advantage or if you should be trying to out control your opponents and going late game. These are the types of decks I struggle with a lot. I'd much rather play something really aggressive or with really strong late game so the choices are easier.

1-1 so far.  Run over by a shaman who took control of the board early and just pummeled me.

Beat a Warlock who couldn't keep anything on the board (made it to T6 with a coin to Flamestrike his board, too).
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #981 on: October 19, 2015, 05:12:42 pm »
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Ended 3-3.

My final loss was to a hunter who played Snake + Bear trap, then Hyena.

How could I plan for that combo?
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Jorbles

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #982 on: October 19, 2015, 05:16:02 pm »
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Ended 3-3.

My final loss was to a hunter who played Snake + Bear trap, then Hyena.

How could I plan for that combo?
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chairs

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #983 on: October 19, 2015, 05:29:47 pm »
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KingZog3

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #984 on: October 19, 2015, 06:12:17 pm »
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Ended 3-3.

My final loss was to a hunter who played Snake + Bear trap, then Hyena.

How could I plan for that combo?

Yeah, sometimes there isnt much you can do. But also if you know it's a certain kind of trap, you can just avoid triggering them for a bit. If you know there is an explosive trap or a bear trap out, wait until you can deal with it the turn you trigger it. But if it's a situation where your hand was forced, maybe there was nothing you could do. It's not a combo really since Snake Trap is an epic, and very very rarely in any arena deck.

It's similar to playing around BGH in arena. You just don't, because it's so rare.
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KingZog3

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #985 on: October 19, 2015, 06:14:55 pm »
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My last two (awful) runs:

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/mnk7va

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/76h75c

A trend I'm seeing, not just in your runs, but other ones posted here, is a severe lack of enough, or good, 2 drops. Sometimes you just don't get offered any, in which case you just mulligan hard for the ones you do have. But otherwise you need more 2/3/4 drops than you do in constructed. Because your winrate needs to be higher, you can't afford to miss playing something on turn 2. In constructed it's fine, because winning 66% of your games is good. In arena your winrate needs to be way higher than that.
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ashersky

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #986 on: October 19, 2015, 06:17:51 pm »
+1

My last two (awful) runs:

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/mnk7va

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/76h75c

A trend I'm seeing, not just in your runs, but other ones posted here, is a severe lack of enough, or good, 2 drops. Sometimes you just don't get offered any, in which case you just mulligan hard for the ones you do have. But otherwise you need more 2/3/4 drops than you do in constructed. Because your winrate needs to be higher, you can't afford to miss playing something on turn 2. In constructed it's fine, because winning 66% of your games is good. In arena your winrate needs to be way higher than that.

I have felt like I don't have enough 1 drops in my runs.  I just follow HA's recommendations (29/30 times), so maybe I'm just not getting good options.
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KingZog3

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #987 on: October 19, 2015, 06:20:53 pm »
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My last two (awful) runs:

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/mnk7va

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/76h75c

A trend I'm seeing, not just in your runs, but other ones posted here, is a severe lack of enough, or good, 2 drops. Sometimes you just don't get offered any, in which case you just mulligan hard for the ones you do have. But otherwise you need more 2/3/4 drops than you do in constructed. Because your winrate needs to be higher, you can't afford to miss playing something on turn 2. In constructed it's fine, because winning 66% of your games is good. In arena your winrate needs to be way higher than that.

I have felt like I don't have enough 1 drops in my runs.  I just follow HA's recommendations (29/30 times), so maybe I'm just not getting good options.

That's very possible too. I average 6.2, but my last few runs have all been around 3-4 wins.
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chairs

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #988 on: October 19, 2015, 06:37:37 pm »
0

My last two (awful) runs:

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/mnk7va

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/76h75c

A trend I'm seeing, not just in your runs, but other ones posted here, is a severe lack of enough, or good, 2 drops. Sometimes you just don't get offered any, in which case you just mulligan hard for the ones you do have. But otherwise you need more 2/3/4 drops than you do in constructed. Because your winrate needs to be higher, you can't afford to miss playing something on turn 2. In constructed it's fine, because winning 66% of your games is good. In arena your winrate needs to be way higher than that.

I have felt like I don't have enough 1 drops in my runs.  I just follow HA's recommendations (29/30 times), so maybe I'm just not getting good options.

That's very possible too. I average 6.2, but my last few runs have all been around 3-4 wins.

I followed HA on 29/30 of picks on each of those runs. Ironically, my constructed deck is probably better for arena than my arena decks ever are, because I play Face Hunter and am playing a variant with no mana costs over 4.

popsofctown

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #989 on: October 19, 2015, 07:54:41 pm »
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Don't you love Face Hunter? :)
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KingZog3

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #990 on: October 19, 2015, 08:03:25 pm »
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My last two (awful) runs:

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/mnk7va

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/76h75c

A trend I'm seeing, not just in your runs, but other ones posted here, is a severe lack of enough, or good, 2 drops. Sometimes you just don't get offered any, in which case you just mulligan hard for the ones you do have. But otherwise you need more 2/3/4 drops than you do in constructed. Because your winrate needs to be higher, you can't afford to miss playing something on turn 2. In constructed it's fine, because winning 66% of your games is good. In arena your winrate needs to be way higher than that.

I have felt like I don't have enough 1 drops in my runs.  I just follow HA's recommendations (29/30 times), so maybe I'm just not getting good options.

That's very possible too. I average 6.2, but my last few runs have all been around 3-4 wins.

I followed HA on 29/30 of picks on each of those runs. Ironically, my constructed deck is probably better for arena than my arena decks ever are, because I play Face Hunter and am playing a variant with no mana costs over 4.

I'm not sure that's ironic. Arena decks are bad constructed decks.
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chairs

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #991 on: October 19, 2015, 08:10:19 pm »
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Ironic in that most decks I see in constructed are control,  which wouldn't fly in arena well due to reliability of getting all the cards you need.

popsofctown

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #992 on: October 19, 2015, 08:11:02 pm »
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Yeah, chairs is correct.  Most arena decks are bad -constructed control- decks.  Aggro is usually more challenging to build.
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ycz6

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #993 on: October 20, 2015, 01:02:59 am »
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So I guess she unstable portal'ed the knight, and the knight made everything else? But, the (creepy music plays) the arrangement is wrong..
She played a Murloc Knight, which summoned a Spiritwalker and then another Murloc Knight and then died.

Most arena decks are bad -constructed control- decks.
I think it's more accurate to describe them as tempo decks. Control decks usually don't have much board presence, care more about card advantage than tempo, and focus a lot on surviving, which is the opposite of most good arena decks in my experience.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2015, 01:04:02 am by ycz6 »
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Jorbles

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #994 on: October 20, 2015, 03:04:52 am »
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Don't you love Face Hunter? :)

I do, which is why I play mostly Hunter in Arena! Well at least as much as I'm allowed to. Hunter is the best class for drafting aggro, and it's the class I'm best at. (6.11 average wins)
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popsofctown

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #995 on: October 20, 2015, 11:21:02 am »
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I have felt like I don't have enough 1 drops in my runs.  I just follow HA's recommendations (29/30 times), so maybe I'm just not getting good options.

There are like 6 turn 1 arena plays, Worgen Infiltrator, Zombie Chow, Flame Imp, Voidwalker, Mana Wyrm, and Northshire.  So usually you don't get a 1 drop.  The other people don't have one drops either so it's ok.
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Jorbles

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #996 on: October 20, 2015, 11:33:22 am »
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I have felt like I don't have enough 1 drops in my runs.  I just follow HA's recommendations (29/30 times), so maybe I'm just not getting good options.

There are like 6 turn 1 arena plays, Worgen Infiltrator, Zombie Chow, Flame Imp, Voidwalker, Mana Wyrm, and Northshire.  So usually you don't get a 1 drop.  The other people don't have one drops either so it's ok.

I don't really agree with this. Gadgetzan Jouster, Argent Squire and that Spider I forget the name of are good too. Some Paladin Secrets are turn 1 playable (definitely Avenge anyways) as is Light's Justice. You'll also usually play any 2/1 if your opponent isn't a pinger, but mulligan your 2/1s if your opponent is Mage/Rogue/Druid.
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popsofctown

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #997 on: October 20, 2015, 11:41:19 am »
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I have felt like I don't have enough 1 drops in my runs.  I just follow HA's recommendations (29/30 times), so maybe I'm just not getting good options.

There are like 6 turn 1 arena plays, Worgen Infiltrator, Zombie Chow, Flame Imp, Voidwalker, Mana Wyrm, and Northshire.  So usually you don't get a 1 drop.  The other people don't have one drops either so it's ok.

I don't really agree with this. Gadgetzan Jouster, Argent Squire and that Spider I forget the name of are good too. Some Paladin Secrets are turn 1 playable (definitely Avenge anyways) as is Light's Justice. You'll also usually play any 2/1 if your opponent isn't a pinger, but mulligan your 2/1s if your opponent is Mage/Rogue/Druid.
Light's Justice, Jouster, and Squire are disappointments to add to your deck.  I forgot Webspinner and Avenge, but those are class specific and don't bolster the count all that much.

You should mulligan Abusive Sarge even against classes without a ping hero power.  He's not a one drop that's good enough to slow down your pursuit of the perfect 2/3/4 opening hand curve.  Unlike Worgen Infiltrator, he can't camp if your opponet plays a 2 mana 2/1, he gets forced to trade down.

Any other 2/1 in your deck is a 2/1 you didn't want in your deck.
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Haddock

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #998 on: October 20, 2015, 12:02:58 pm »
0

Going first, I would keep everything whenever I drew a 1/2/3 opening, even if the 1-drop was abusive sergeant.
 
There's no question in my mind that going first in arena:
abusive, 2-drop, 3-drop, followed by whatever you've drawn in that time, (if you've not drawn a 3 or a 4 or even a 2+hp by then you've either gotten supremely unlucky or have a janky curve)
is better than
nothing, 2-drop, 3-drop, 4-drop
90% of the time, even against classes with a ping. 
The tempo is just so strong.

But yeah unless I've drawn the 2 and the 3 already I would perhaps mulligan the sergeant.
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Jorbles

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #999 on: October 20, 2015, 12:03:50 pm »
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I have felt like I don't have enough 1 drops in my runs.  I just follow HA's recommendations (29/30 times), so maybe I'm just not getting good options.

There are like 6 turn 1 arena plays, Worgen Infiltrator, Zombie Chow, Flame Imp, Voidwalker, Mana Wyrm, and Northshire.  So usually you don't get a 1 drop.  The other people don't have one drops either so it's ok.

I don't really agree with this. Gadgetzan Jouster, Argent Squire and that Spider I forget the name of are good too. Some Paladin Secrets are turn 1 playable (definitely Avenge anyways) as is Light's Justice. You'll also usually play any 2/1 if your opponent isn't a pinger, but mulligan your 2/1s if your opponent is Mage/Rogue/Druid.
Light's Justice, Jouster, and Squire are disappointments to add to your deck.  I forgot Webspinner and Avenge, but those are class specific and don't bolster the count all that much.

You should mulligan Abusive Sarge even against classes without a ping hero power.  He's not a one drop that's good enough to slow down your pursuit of the perfect 2/3/4 opening hand curve.  Unlike Worgen Infiltrator, he can't camp if your opponet plays a 2 mana 2/1, he gets forced to trade down.

Any other 2/1 in your deck is a 2/1 you didn't want in your deck.

Argent Squire is a 1-drop I'd happily add to my deck. It takes two actions of your opponent to remove it, which is pretty solid in my books. Light's Justice is also never something I'm sad to add to my deck. A solid average card. Jouster is more deck dependent, but if I think I have a deck that'll win those Jousts a Jouster is great (or just mediocre if I don't have a high curve).

You seem to play differently from me. I chase the 1-2-3 dream over the 2-3-4 dream in my opening hand. I'd never toss a playable 1 or 2 drop in my opener (or a 3 drop if I had a 2 drop), but I would usually ditch a 4 drop in hopes of finding a 1 drop and count on drawing into a 4 drop in the turns between now and then. It sounds like you would hold your 4 drop if you drew a 2-3-4 opening hand and you'd usually toss your 1 drops unless it was one of the ones you mentioned above?
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