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Author Topic: Arena General Discussion  (Read 329356 times)

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qmech

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #775 on: August 31, 2015, 04:33:06 pm »
0

Mulch fail. 

It obviously didn't matter what I got at that stage though.  I'm disappointed that the deck didn't do better than 4-3.  The final loss was to a ridiculously aggressive Rogue that had 5 minions on the board by the end of turn 3 and took out all my early drops with Knife Juggler.
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ycz6

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #776 on: August 31, 2015, 05:43:44 pm »
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qmech

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #777 on: September 01, 2015, 04:26:39 am »
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Mulch fail. 
Jesus. What did he Mulch?

I'm not certain, but I think it might have been Murloc Knight.
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popsofctown

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #778 on: September 01, 2015, 09:21:01 am »
+1

Should have used Hungry Crab.  Doesn't he know specific hatred minions are the druid way?
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ycz6

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #779 on: September 01, 2015, 02:15:12 pm »
+1

are druid

Let me tell you about my Savagery Ramp Druid with Blingtron and Harrison.

It's gotten better with Savage Combatant.

It's still not very good.
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Titandrake

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #780 on: September 01, 2015, 02:36:24 pm »
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On that note, Savage Combatant is really good in arena. Solid stats for its cost and a 3 damage Hero Power is incredibly hard to deal with.
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popsofctown

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #781 on: September 01, 2015, 02:49:54 pm »
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Savage Combatant would be an interesting constructed card too if there were heuristics for druid cards other than "does this set me up to roar?"
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Jorbles

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #782 on: September 01, 2015, 02:51:55 pm »
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It's kinda too bad that Savage Roar is such a strong and versatile finishing card that there's really no Druid deck that wouldn't include it as a win condition.
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pingpongsam

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #783 on: September 01, 2015, 02:58:58 pm »
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It's kinda too bad that Savage Roar is such a strong and versatile finishing card that there's really no Druid deck that wouldn't include it as a win condition.

I have a Golden Druid hero and have never run the combo although I have run the card but rarely as the win condition and even then only way later maybe even after achieving golden because I never opened one until then.
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ashersky

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #784 on: September 01, 2015, 03:16:24 pm »
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It's kinda too bad that Savage Roar is such a strong and versatile finishing card that there's really no Druid deck that wouldn't include it as a win condition.

I have a Golden Druid hero and have never run the combo although I have run the card but rarely as the win condition and even then only way later maybe even after achieving golden because I never opened one until then.

Isn't Savage Roar soulbound?
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popsofctown

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #785 on: September 01, 2015, 03:16:44 pm »
+1

5/6 top druid decks on hearthpwn run double roar.  The sixth one is explicitly for fun rather than actual ladder success, it's the Aviana-innervate-malygos-faceless-faceless-moonfire-moonfire deck.

There's no optimal druid deck with zero Roars.  Winning 500 times with a certain card choice doesn't mean the card choice is optimal in any way so I don't really get the point of the comment.  I got golden Hunter without using Arcane Golem because giving my opponent a mana crystal annoyed me, but I'm not going to sit here and disagree if someone said you can't build an optimal hunter deck without an Arcane Golem just because I won 500 games and lost 470 games without it.
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popsofctown

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #786 on: September 01, 2015, 03:19:10 pm »
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It is soulbound, thought it was common, not that that would have made much more sense.  I guess PPS probably mixed it up with Savagery a lot when he was checking his collection, or something.
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ashersky

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #787 on: September 01, 2015, 03:24:44 pm »
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It is soulbound, thought it was common, not that that would have made much more sense.  I guess PPS probably mixed it up with Savagery a lot when he was checking his collection, or something.

I guess he could have meant FON.
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popsofctown

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #788 on: September 01, 2015, 03:26:19 pm »
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But then he's saying he sometimes ran FON, but not the combo, and that's the worst part of the combo to run by itself by a mile.. it seems more likely that he mismanaged his collection, than that.
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markusin

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #789 on: September 01, 2015, 04:36:41 pm »
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But then he's saying he sometimes ran FON, but not the combo, and that's the worst part of the combo to run by itself by a mile.. it seems more likely that he mismanaged his collection, than that.
Sure, but he really might have meant that he ran FON and not Savage Roar. Just because it isn't optimal doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I believe I only have 1 copy of FON. I don't play Druid that much, partly because I don't have good cards to make it work. No Ancient of Lore either
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 04:38:30 pm by markusin »
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pingpongsam

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #790 on: September 01, 2015, 05:15:27 pm »
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I certainly did not mean to imply that the decks I created were somehow optimal. Also, I saw not much point to Savage Roar without FON and I find the combo quite predictable and boring so chose to never run it. At some point I did add Savage Roar (and that point came after opening FON) but not with intent to combo but more like a multiplied Abusive Sergeant type of effect. The comment I responded to did not imply that FON-Roar was optimal but that there were no decks without it as a win condition. The deck I have that does not contain the combo can easily eke out a 50% win-rate in even today's meta precisely because it is unconventional and cannot be predictably played around. That the deck exists and can win reliably disproves the comment I responded to.
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pingpongsam

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #791 on: September 01, 2015, 05:16:54 pm »
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I will say having run the deck for a couple hundred wins means I can play it extremely well even though I rarely play it anymore because I'm too busy chasing other golden portraits.
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popsofctown

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #792 on: September 01, 2015, 07:27:54 pm »
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Jorbles said there's not a druid deck that doesn't want it, not that there's not a druid player that doesn't want it.  If you have a ramp/taunt druid variant, it probably wins a couple % more games if you put 1x Force 1x Roar into it, whether you like that or not.  You probably don't need those couple %s because you're a great pilot. But that doesn't mean the deck itself doesn't want it.

I got to Black Knight Gadgetzan Druid February before last.  From rank 10-5 or so I didn't use any Force Roar because Force Roar had little to do with the deck's theme.  When I put 1x Force, 1x Roar in, almost to my dismay, the deck lost a few more games from drawing unaided Forces and won a few more games from drawing the combo, and the combo wins were outweighing the drags.

We're in the dark about what kind of deck it is, but it's either:

Mill druid, spell damage druid, leper gnome druid: 50% winrate is dependent on languishing in rank 15
Aggro Druid: 2 roars vastly improve the deck.
Midrange/token druid: 2 Roars and at least one force vastly improves the deck
Ramp/Taunt Druid: 1x force 1x roar slightly improves the deck's winrate, because sitting behind Sunwalkers while Ancient of Lore draws you cards, it's just gonna line up and steal games too many times.

There is no viable deck that doesn't want roar, but there are decks that don't need it. 

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Jorbles

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #793 on: September 01, 2015, 07:56:50 pm »
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Pops is right about what I meant. I didn't really think it was that controversial a statement, just a lament about how the Druid class was designed.
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pingpongsam

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #794 on: September 02, 2015, 09:00:26 am »
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Jorbles said there's not a druid deck that doesn't want it, not that there's not a druid player that doesn't want it.  If you have a ramp/taunt druid variant, it probably wins a couple % more games if you put 1x Force 1x Roar into it, whether you like that or not.  You probably don't need those couple %s because you're a great pilot. But that doesn't mean the deck itself doesn't want it.

I got to Black Knight Gadgetzan Druid February before last.  From rank 10-5 or so I didn't use any Force Roar because Force Roar had little to do with the deck's theme.  When I put 1x Force, 1x Roar in, almost to my dismay, the deck lost a few more games from drawing unaided Forces and won a few more games from drawing the combo, and the combo wins were outweighing the drags.

We're in the dark about what kind of deck it is, but it's either:

Mill druid, spell damage druid, leper gnome druid: 50% winrate is dependent on languishing in rank 15
Aggro Druid: 2 roars vastly improve the deck.
Midrange/token druid: 2 Roars and at least one force vastly improves the deck
Ramp/Taunt Druid: 1x force 1x roar slightly improves the deck's winrate, because sitting behind Sunwalkers while Ancient of Lore draws you cards, it's just gonna line up and steal games too many times.

There is no viable deck that doesn't want roar, but there are decks that don't need it.

I agree with all this. The deck in question is a Mech/Taunt druid. There's no Innervate so I'm going to say it doesn't ramp although curve is an important factor. Not even Ancient of War, so I'm not sure it fits any of your molds. No Shredders or Golems, no mech synergy, probably a little too dependent on the RNG of recombobulator but usually regenerating an Ancient or a Rag into something else is a win condition. Otherwise the idea is to absorb damage while reliably dealing it on every turn. The deck is a result of fine tuning it to a shifting meta so I expect as the current meta settles it will prove fairly ineffective but last week it was extremely effective. Heck, right now a bone stock mage build is proving highly effective.

1x Mark of the Wild
2x Wrath
2x Annoy-o-Tron
1x Faerie Dragon
1x Mechwarper
1x Micro Machine
1x Recombobulator
1x Sunfury Protector
1x Savage Roar
1x MC Tech
1x Shade of Naxx
2x Spider Tank
1x Tauren Warrior
2x Swipe
1x Arcane Nullifier
1x Healbot
1x Azure Drake
1x Bomb Lobber
1x Druid of Claw
2x Sludge Belcher
1x Spectral Knight
1x Starfire
1x Piloted Sky Golem
1x Ancient of Lore
1x Ragnaros

All that said, this is the wrong thread to discuss constructed decks.
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popsofctown

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #795 on: September 02, 2015, 12:14:04 pm »
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Arena's on life support anyway.  Murloc Knight in Arena is We Didn't Playtest This At All.
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ycz6

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #796 on: September 02, 2015, 08:30:33 pm »
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Have there been any stats recently on difficulty of opposition by time of day? I have my own biased impressions but I'm curious if there's anything to them.
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markusin

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #797 on: September 02, 2015, 09:53:13 pm »
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Arena's on life support anyway.  Murloc Knight in Arena is We Didn't Playtest This At All.
Oh yeah totally. The other day I won a game I should have lost because Murloc Knight summoned another Murloc Knight two turns in a row.
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ycz6

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #798 on: September 04, 2015, 03:18:21 am »
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Got my first Murloc Knight in a draft today. Got three, in fact.

Ended up going 10-3. Lost my last game because I forgot I had the client muted and went AFK. The card is pretty bonkers.
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Titandrake

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #799 on: September 04, 2015, 04:44:33 am »
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I just lost a game to Murloc Knight -> Hero Power -> Murloc Warleader summoned, forcing me to remove a 5/5 Murloc Knight since I didn't have the damage to remove Warleader first...

I've only played against it a few times, but it never fails to feel dumb and unfair.
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