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Author Topic: Arena General Discussion  (Read 149834 times)

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qmech

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #625 on: August 09, 2015, 05:29:20 am »
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Yes!  I cannot believe that they were pleased.

(You can tell this from the sidebar log, but there were four minions in total on the board when I played the bomber.  So the chance to kill the drake was 2/27 ~= 7.5%.)
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pingpongsam

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #626 on: August 10, 2015, 10:40:35 am »
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Played some arena this weekend for the first time since shortly after GVG released. 2/3, 0/3, 2/3. Not good at all.
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KingZog3

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #627 on: August 10, 2015, 11:02:28 am »
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Played some arena this weekend for the first time since shortly after GVG released. 2/3, 0/3, 2/3. Not good at all.

When GvG came out I suddenly couldnt do well till about a month after its release. So I assume you're also in that stage mixed with being rusty at arena :P
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popsofctown

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #628 on: August 10, 2015, 11:05:30 am »
+1

Yeah GvG totally changed how Arena plays, sometimes in ways that are hard to even understand or track.  Every arena run some pick in the thirty comes up and I'm like, "I'm certain that a year ago I would slam the card on the left, but I feel like I have to pick the card on the right in modern times, and I'm not even sure why".  And I pick it and do well..
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markusin

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #629 on: August 10, 2015, 11:32:38 am »
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Played some arena this weekend for the first time since shortly after GVG released. 2/3, 0/3, 2/3. Not good at all.

When GvG came out I suddenly couldnt do well till about a month after its release. So I assume you're also in that stage mixed with being rusty at arena :P
On my first GvG Arena run I went 0/3, as a Mage even. I was streaming my run too.
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AHoppy

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #630 on: August 10, 2015, 11:42:16 pm »
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This is the first time I have earned over 150 gold since GvG... Arena got much harder

http://arenamastery.com/TfEp
(too lazy to input cards as I drafted them...)

I was surprised how many times I could activate blackwing corrupter.  It was insane

KingZog3

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #631 on: August 11, 2015, 11:43:47 am »
+3

Playing something good on curve for turn 1-3 can win you a lot of games. Early game is where it's at. You can have 1 big minion, that's often all you need to seal a game. Only a few classes where you need more, like Druid that has a lot nice taunts like Druid of the Claw to stop tempo from the early game and then have enough trees where you can't catch up. But I've valued removal like Polymorph and Hex much worse since I'd rather get a minion out than have those cards most of the time.
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popsofctown

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #632 on: August 11, 2015, 03:32:48 pm »
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Polymorph and hex were major losers of GVG shifts
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KingZog3

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #633 on: August 11, 2015, 03:51:11 pm »
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Polymorph and hex were major losers of GVG shifts

But early game damage spells are super strong, like flamecannon and Frost Bolt, which is why Mage is still the best. Rogue is second best in my opinion, and it's only second because if it does end up in the late game, Mage has better control cards.
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Jorbles

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #634 on: August 11, 2015, 07:05:17 pm »
+3

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Jorbles

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #635 on: August 11, 2015, 09:39:24 pm »
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Relevant to people's interests?

https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3glw39/arenawarriorsmatter/

The TL;DR is that a thoughtful caster and Arena expert talked about why Warrior sucks in Arena and why that's bad for Arena in general.
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popsofctown

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #636 on: August 11, 2015, 10:36:00 pm »
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He's wrong.  Old Charge was zero mana, not one mana.

He is correct that arena balance is just totally neglected and abandoned.  It seems like Blizz is just crapping on arena so that people play constructed, because arena is not fun anymore.  Which is terrible.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2015, 10:37:24 pm by popsofctown »
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markusin

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #637 on: August 11, 2015, 10:46:09 pm »
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He's wrong.  Old Charge was zero mana, not one mana.
This was even brought up in the *shudder* YouTube comments for the video that he acknowledged.

Yeah Arena is my preferred mode of play. I mean, draft is taken seriously in M:tG. The way Hearthstone simplifies the draft to only 1 of 3 x 30 and takes into account rarity makes it so they can't just release an expansion that's solid and balanced on its own and expect the same to hold true for Arena.

He made the point that Arena is not only competitive, but rather cutthroat to the inexperienced. That's a hint that there is skill involved in Arena and it should be acknowledged as a meaningful meta on its own.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2015, 10:47:48 pm by markusin »
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popsofctown

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #638 on: August 12, 2015, 12:20:38 am »
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Also, Korkron Elite is a good common warrior 4 drop.
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markusin

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #639 on: August 12, 2015, 11:31:55 pm »
+2

Boom! Just joined the 12-0 Arena run club, and with a Priest no less.

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/0fh0l2

The last few decks I was facing were pretty aggro oriented. The Priest hero power and Holy Novas sure came in handy, while Mind Control was always overkill and never the game winner. I though I was going to lose the last game when I lost 2 Knife Jugglers and a Dark Cultist to Flamestrike, but a lucky Dispel topdeck saved me from a very threatening Shade of Naxxramas at the end.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #640 on: August 12, 2015, 11:37:00 pm »
+1

Boom! Just joined the 12-0 Arena run club, and with a Priest no less.

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/0fh0l2

The last few decks I was facing were pretty aggro oriented. The Priest hero power and Holy Novas sure came in handy, while Mind Control was always overkill and never the game winner. I though I was going to lose the last game when I lost 2 Knife Jugglers and a Dark Cultist to Flamestrike, but a lucky Dispel topdeck saved me from a very threatening Shade of Naxxramas at the end.

Congrats! That deck seems good but not great, I'm surprised it went 12-0 -- unless the Cabals were MVPs every game I don't see how it did that well. How'd you do so well with it?
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markusin

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #641 on: August 13, 2015, 12:04:03 am »
0

Boom! Just joined the 12-0 Arena run club, and with a Priest no less.

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/0fh0l2

The last few decks I was facing were pretty aggro oriented. The Priest hero power and Holy Novas sure came in handy, while Mind Control was always overkill and never the game winner. I though I was going to lose the last game when I lost 2 Knife Jugglers and a Dark Cultist to Flamestrike, but a lucky Dispel topdeck saved me from a very threatening Shade of Naxxramas at the end.

Congrats! That deck seems good but not great, I'm surprised it went 12-0 -- unless the Cabals were MVPs every game I don't see how it did that well. How'd you do so well with it?
I think I lucked out with my early game always being strong enough to not lose the board by Turn 5. In fact I'd say I had the edge most of the time early on. My 5+ mana cards were all strong and gave me lots of options. Good early turn draws with Northshire Cleric allowed me to draw enough of those options to be able to deal with a large range of midgame threats.

Oh and you better believe those Cabals were MVP. They stole stuff every game I think, including Acolytes and a Leper Gnome when I was at less than 10 health. Against the Warlock I played Mind Control of Troggzor, forgot about that. It got silenced but I bounced it back with the time rewinder spare part so I can play it again. It was a concede from my opponent from there.

Consider that Ironforge Rifleman and Blackwing Corruptor were the only noticeably below average cards in my deck, with many other cards being above average to very strong and synergistic with the other stuff in my deck.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 12:05:33 am by markusin »
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KingZog3

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #642 on: August 13, 2015, 10:02:59 am »
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That's alow amount of 2 drops for Priest. So I'd say it's luck that you survived the early game, but the amazing late game that sealed those games.
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popsofctown

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #643 on: August 13, 2015, 10:26:53 am »
0

Boom! Just joined the 12-0 Arena run club, and with a Priest no less.

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/0fh0l2

The last few decks I was facing were pretty aggro oriented. The Priest hero power and Holy Novas sure came in handy, while Mind Control was always overkill and never the game winner. I though I was going to lose the last game when I lost 2 Knife Jugglers and a Dark Cultist to Flamestrike, but a lucky Dispel topdeck saved me from a very threatening Shade of Naxxramas at the end.

Congrats! That deck seems good but not great, I'm surprised it went 12-0 -- unless the Cabals were MVPs every game I don't see how it did that well. How'd you do so well with it?
I think I lucked out with my early game always being strong enough to not lose the board by Turn 5. In fact I'd say I had the edge most of the time early on. My 5+ mana cards were all strong and gave me lots of options. Good early turn draws with Northshire Cleric allowed me to draw enough of those options to be able to deal with a large range of midgame threats.

Oh and you better believe those Cabals were MVP. They stole stuff every game I think, including Acolytes and a Leper Gnome when I was at less than 10 health. Against the Warlock I played Mind Control of Troggzor, forgot about that. It got silenced but I bounced it back with the time rewinder spare part so I can play it again. It was a concede from my opponent from there.

Consider that Ironforge Rifleman and Blackwing Corruptor were the only noticeably below average cards in my deck, with many other cards being above average to very strong and synergistic with the other stuff in my deck.

Clockwork Gnome and Ravenholdt Assassin are pretty bad too.  I don't know if I've ever gotten to 12 wins with that many unwanted card, let alone 12-0.  I was surprised the other day that I managed to get 10 wins with 29 good cards and a Stone Skin Gargoyle, even.  (Someone Fireballed the Stone Skin Gargoyle to keep it from trading with a 5/s when he knew I had to hero power a 7/1 the same turn, it was kinda hilarious.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 10:31:30 am by popsofctown »
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werothegreat

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #644 on: August 13, 2015, 10:49:25 am »
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So would it be accurate to say that it's better to have lots of minions than lots of spells in arena?
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #645 on: August 13, 2015, 10:50:45 am »
0

Boom! Just joined the 12-0 Arena run club, and with a Priest no less.

http://www.heartharena.com/arena-run/0fh0l2

The last few decks I was facing were pretty aggro oriented. The Priest hero power and Holy Novas sure came in handy, while Mind Control was always overkill and never the game winner. I though I was going to lose the last game when I lost 2 Knife Jugglers and a Dark Cultist to Flamestrike, but a lucky Dispel topdeck saved me from a very threatening Shade of Naxxramas at the end.

Congrats! That deck seems good but not great, I'm surprised it went 12-0 -- unless the Cabals were MVPs every game I don't see how it did that well. How'd you do so well with it?
I think I lucked out with my early game always being strong enough to not lose the board by Turn 5. In fact I'd say I had the edge most of the time early on. My 5+ mana cards were all strong and gave me lots of options. Good early turn draws with Northshire Cleric allowed me to draw enough of those options to be able to deal with a large range of midgame threats.

Oh and you better believe those Cabals were MVP. They stole stuff every game I think, including Acolytes and a Leper Gnome when I was at less than 10 health. Against the Warlock I played Mind Control of Troggzor, forgot about that. It got silenced but I bounced it back with the time rewinder spare part so I can play it again. It was a concede from my opponent from there.

Consider that Ironforge Rifleman and Blackwing Corruptor were the only noticeably below average cards in my deck, with many other cards being above average to very strong and synergistic with the other stuff in my deck.

Clockwork Gnome and Ravenholdt Assassin are pretty bad too.  I don't know if I've ever gotten to 12 wins with that many unwanted card, let alone 12-0.  I was surprised the other day that I managed to get 10 wins with 29 good cards and a Stone Skin Gargoyle, even.  (Someone Fireballed the Stone Skin Gargoyle to keep it from trading with a 5/s when he knew I had to hero power a 7/1 the same turn, it was kinda hilarious.
It's not like I wasn't surprised myself. I barely had enough early drops and I didn't have too many 3-4 drops to make up for it( (though they were quality 3-4 drops for the most part).

Clockwork isn't great, but sometimes a 2/1 does enough to not get overrun early on. It was really the Worgen Infiltrator that was a great 1- drop because it stays around to be buffed by Velen's Chosen and maybe Dark Cuktist. I somehow found a use for my hero power early game often enough to make up for my tricky early game curve thanks to stuff like Velen's Chosen and Northshire Cleric. It happened a few times where my Hunter opponent would open with Webspinner which trades poorly with Northshire.

Ravenholdt isn't all that good normally, but it did good work in my deck because I had a few ways to heal it back up after it trades and is very threatening when combined with Drakonid Crusher. Consider that the Ravenholdt gets played after the point where I start to claim the board for myself stuff like Tiger and Spectral Knight followed by Cabal/Holy Nova.
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markusin

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #646 on: August 13, 2015, 10:57:19 am »
0

So would it be accurate to say that it's better to have lots of minions than lots of spells in arena?
Some spells are really good to have in moderation, like Frostbolt, Shadow Word:Pain, and the good AoE effects. The weakness of spells is that they're reactive and depend on your opponent playing targets for those spells. Frostbolt doesn't give you an edge on Turn 2 if your opponent didn't play a minion or played a stealth minion. Ultimately you need minions to let you capitalize on spells and reach the win condition of getting your opponent's health to 0.

But really, the key is to have quality, "value" cards whether they be spells or minions. The cards you pick should also fit a reasonable mana curve. These are just basic things that help you get at least an okay Arena run. I'm still not sure what quality an arena deck should have to consistently get you 7+ wins.
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popsofctown

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #647 on: August 13, 2015, 11:27:19 am »
0

So would it be accurate to say that it's better to have lots of minions than lots of spells in arena?
Like, as always, "depends on the board", but in the agnostic conceptual sense I think that's a good way to consider things.  There is a Magic the Gathering proverb that is always fun and often insightful: "There are no wrong threats, only wrong answers".

« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 11:29:13 am by popsofctown »
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Awaclus

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #648 on: August 13, 2015, 11:45:44 am »
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So would it be accurate to say that it's better to have lots of minions than lots of spells in arena?

I guess, but spells are oftentimes better than minions of equal cost, which is why you do want to pick them quite often too. Usually, you get a nice balance between spells and minions if you just pick the card with the most value that fits into your mana curve every time.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #649 on: August 14, 2015, 01:05:09 pm »
0

This might be my luckiest arena draft ever. I'm playing Priest and I'm 4-1 right now. Scope this:

Light of the Naaru
Mind Vision
Power Word Shield
Power Word Shield
Dragon Egg
Northshire Cleric

Shadow Word Pain
Bloodsail Raider
Shrinkmeister
Shrinkmeister

Velen's Chosen
Velen's Chosen
Dark Cultist
Earthen Ring Farseer
Ogre Brute
Raid Leader

Mass Dispel
Chillwind Yeti
Cult Master
Dragonkin Sorcerer
Lightspawn
Violet Teacher

Holy Nova
Holy Nova
Azure Drake
Upgraded Repair Bot (the only Mech, sadly, so it's just a 5/5)

Cabal Shadow Priest
Sylvanas Windrunner

Ragnaros

Mind Control

The only thing I haven't done with this deck yet is Shrinkmeister+Cabal on something, I've had some pretty ridiculous Dragon Eggs so far, like I had a couple of 2/9s. I even got to Mind Control a Deathwing!

I almost don't want to play this deck because then it will be over eventually :P
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