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Author Topic: Arena General Discussion  (Read 330470 times)

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Titandrake

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #350 on: December 01, 2014, 03:59:47 pm »
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Well, my last 2 runs were 3/4 wins, so looks like it was a fluke after all :(

For arena, I never got the feeling that Trump was skewed towards aggro, I thought he was skewed towards board control/tempo. To be fair, that is more aggro leaning, trying to play a board control deck without a good supply of 2/3 drops usually ends poorly, and your ideal mana curve tops out pretty fast.

I've heard of people that try to only play aggressive arena decks, but drafts don't usually allow for the same kind of aggression in my experience. I could be drafting it wrong though.
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Jorbles

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #351 on: December 01, 2014, 04:07:40 pm »
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I think Trump plays more of a control style too. He's usually really cautious and more inclined to trade than hit face.
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popsofctown

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #352 on: December 01, 2014, 08:46:28 pm »
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I think Trump plays more of a control style too. He's usually really cautious and more inclined to trade than hit face.

Well good players look controllier than average players.  I think if he wanted to only max his winrate he'd take some of the fast cards a little less though.
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Kirian

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #353 on: December 01, 2014, 08:47:03 pm »
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Who was it that was a friends of adwcta?  Was it theory?

http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/2nxdzx/heartharena_revealhandson/
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #354 on: December 02, 2014, 12:24:44 am »
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I've heard of people that try to only play aggressive arena decks, but drafts don't usually allow for the same kind of aggression in my experience. I could be drafting it wrong though.

What do you mean by "the same kind of aggression"? The same as what? Of course it can't be the same as constructed, where you try to empty you hand and kill your opponent in like 5 turns.

The important thing to note is that every deck is weaker than in constructed, so being unable to kill your opponent fast is not a huge deal. He won't automatically have great stuff to shut you down in the late turns. There are far fewer Sludge Belchers, tauning giants, Alexstrazas, etc. Really all arena decks are some sort of midrange. Arena "aggro" is just aggressive midrange.

What you want to do is contest for the board the first 4-6 turns, taking opportunities to hit face instead of trading if there's no real way for your opponent to get better value than the trade. Then start to be more aggressive once you get a tempo advantage and be willing to give up board position if you can deal enough face damage. Like if you each have 8 damage worth of minions, you can hit face instead of trading, and even if your opponent can get some favorable trades, if you have the ability to pressure his life enough, it won't matter. This requires you to have some burn or good removal (to mitigate the board disadvantage). Mage and Hunter are the best for this since they have good AoE (Flamestrike, Multi-shot), single-target removal (Poly, Deadly, Mark), and burn (Fireball, Kill Command, Steady Shot)

When you draft, you don't actually want to draft that differently than you would for a board control deck. A few things like Rocketeer, Nightblade, and Leper Gnome become better, but the top cards are still the same. You're still taking basically every Ogre you get offered.

Recently I've been trying to get my Hunter level up, so I've been playing Hunter as much as possible. In 9 runs in the last couple months, I've gotten at least 5 wins every time (9,5,7,7,6,5,5,8,11). That's a reasonably high floor. The point is that even if you get a bad draft, a lot of arena decks just can't handle the face pressure. When I drafted this deck
0 - hunter's mark
1 - arcane shot, tracking, archer, webspinner
2 - explosive, freezing, mad sci, engi
3 - companion, deadly, kill, 2x unleash, arcane golem, coldlight, farseer, panther, cleric, silverback
4 - 2x multi, dwarf, 2 houndmaster, twilight drake
5 - explosive, faceless, buzzard
6 - ogre
I thought I'd be sub-3 wins, since I lack any real early game, but it still went for 8. Now maybe you could say this is not really an aggro deck, but I think it is. It starts going face relatively early, giving up board position to get saved by the removal while minions go face.
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popsofctown

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #355 on: December 02, 2014, 09:33:48 am »
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I agree that aggressive midrange is very viable in arena and will feel like aggro in the arena meta, but I think there are some good arena decks that you can truly classify as "control".  The inability to get a critical mass of leper gnome type cards totally cuts you off from aggro, but since Hearthstone is a game where creatures can be used as removal you can build a pretty sweet control deck with the right offers.  I mean, it's possible to build a deck where you get Ysera and you're happy with it so I'd class that as a control deck
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Kirian

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #356 on: December 07, 2014, 11:45:59 pm »
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So I thought this draft went really poorly, but so far it's gone 6-2:

http://arenamastery.com/k0BU

Let me say this: Coin-Shredder on T3 into Screwjank on T4 is really, really nice.  Not instant win, but a 6/5 at the start of T5 begs removal...
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KingZog3

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #357 on: December 07, 2014, 11:51:27 pm »
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So I thought this draft went really poorly, but so far it's gone 6-2:

http://arenamastery.com/k0BU

Let me say this: Coin-Shredder on T3 into Screwjank on T4 is really, really nice.  Not instant win, but a 6/5 at the start of T5 begs removal...

I also just finished a run that went 6-2 that was mostly 2's and 5's. A few good 6's, like Sunwalker and Sky golem, but I'm amazed at how well it did.
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Kirian

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #358 on: December 08, 2014, 12:35:09 am »
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...and that finished 6-3.  Druid played Innervate--Blademaster on T2, and Ogre Warmaul...

...let's just say I don't see Warmaul seeing much play in constructed.
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KingZog3

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #359 on: December 08, 2014, 12:51:11 am »
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...and that finished 6-3.  Druid played Innervate--Blademaster on T2, and Ogre Warmaul...

...let's just say I don't see Warmaul seeing much play in constructed.

really? I see it in aggro decks that don't care so much about missing.
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popsofctown

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #360 on: December 08, 2014, 10:28:37 am »
+1

...and that finished 6-3.  Druid played Innervate--Blademaster on T2, and Ogre Warmaul...

...let's just say I don't see Warmaul seeing much play in constructed.

really? I see it in aggro decks that don't care so much about missing.

It might, but I dunno.  When you want to attack face with it and it gives your opponent's minions 50% taunt that can be bad for aggro and could make you wish it was an Arcane Golem or Wolf Rider.

The thing about a weapon with extra attack and random targetting as the drawback is that it has a chance to attack a Scarlet Crusader or something, effectively removing the extra attack that was supposed to be the exciting part.  If it was high durability maybe it'd be different
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ycz6

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #361 on: December 09, 2014, 01:32:52 am »
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Watno

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #362 on: December 13, 2014, 05:29:04 pm »
+1

Warlock got so much stronger in the Arena with GvG. Floating Watcher and Implosion are insanely good, and Darkbomb is nice as well.
In contrast, i think Paladin really suffered because it's less likely to get the awesome commons that made it strong. I think they should add another good common weapon with the next set of cards.
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pingpongsam

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #363 on: December 14, 2014, 10:25:46 am »
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Funny I am winning almost strictly with Paladin while generally only getting 1 or 2 wins even 0 with the other classes. The only other class I can get wins with right now is Warrior.
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markusin

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #364 on: December 14, 2014, 11:24:59 am »
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Funny I am winning almost strictly with Paladin while generally only getting 1 or 2 wins even 0 with the other classes. The only other class I can get wins with right now is Warrior.
Paladin has always been good in arena, and now they have Shieldbots and Muster for Battle. Also Quartermaster. As long as they still get their 4 mana power cards they are a force to be reckoned with.
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popsofctown

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #365 on: December 14, 2014, 11:50:42 am »
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Funny I am winning almost strictly with Paladin while generally only getting 1 or 2 wins even 0 with the other classes. The only other class I can get wins with right now is Warrior.
Teach me how to draw any of the 3 truesilvers i drafted.
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markusin

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #366 on: December 14, 2014, 11:54:32 am »
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Funny I am winning almost strictly with Paladin while generally only getting 1 or 2 wins even 0 with the other classes. The only other class I can get wins with right now is Warrior.
Teach me how to draw any of the 3 truesilvers i drafted.
Maybe stop winning before turn 7?
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #367 on: December 14, 2014, 03:55:20 pm »
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Does anyone know how the chances of seeing cards in arena drafts is affected by the new cards? Did everything go down in equal proportion, or do the basic cards maintain their same frequqncy, since they are in some way more fundamental to the class?
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popsofctown

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #368 on: December 14, 2014, 05:57:51 pm »
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Funny I am winning almost strictly with Paladin while generally only getting 1 or 2 wins even 0 with the other classes. The only other class I can get wins with right now is Warrior.
Teach me how to draw any of the 3 truesilvers i drafted.
Maybe stop winning before turn 7?
*losing, generally to minions with four health
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Jorbles

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #369 on: December 15, 2014, 02:31:36 pm »
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Does anyone know how the chances of seeing cards in arena drafts is affected by the new cards? Did everything go down in equal proportion, or do the basic cards maintain their same frequqncy, since they are in some way more fundamental to the class?

I've heard people say that Paladin got worse because its really strong commons show up less now. Truesilver in particular shows up less so there's less Paladin weapons floating around. I think Hunter got stronger for the opposite reason: it now has a good common weapon where it didn't before (Glaivezooka).
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Kirian

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #370 on: December 15, 2014, 02:48:49 pm »
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Does anyone know how the chances of seeing cards in arena drafts is affected by the new cards? Did everything go down in equal proportion, or do the basic cards maintain their same frequqncy, since they are in some way more fundamental to the class?

I've heard people say that Paladin got worse because its really strong commons show up less now. Truesilver in particular shows up less so there's less Paladin weapons floating around. I think Hunter got stronger for the opposite reason: it now has a good common weapon where it didn't before (Glaivezooka).

Talk on Reddit suggests that Arena has tilted more toward aggro than control now, partly due to the decreased amount of good AOE available.
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Jorbles

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #371 on: December 15, 2014, 02:54:46 pm »
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Does anyone know how the chances of seeing cards in arena drafts is affected by the new cards? Did everything go down in equal proportion, or do the basic cards maintain their same frequqncy, since they are in some way more fundamental to the class?

I've heard people say that Paladin got worse because its really strong commons show up less now. Truesilver in particular shows up less so there's less Paladin weapons floating around. I think Hunter got stronger for the opposite reason: it now has a good common weapon where it didn't before (Glaivezooka).

Talk on Reddit suggests that Arena has tilted more toward aggro than control now, partly due to the decreased amount of good AOE available.

Because of what Kirian said, I think that any AOE you can get is stronger than it used to be. I've been drafting Wild Pyro and Abomination higher than I used to (Mechanical Sheep is good for similar reasons), and haven't fallen off in the types of performances I've been getting.
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markusin

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #372 on: December 15, 2014, 04:04:17 pm »
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There are also more midgame cards in arena now, I think. Mechanical Yeti, Burly Rockjaw, and Piloted Shredder give more reason to worry about early game board control. There are a now more 4 drops that are scary when dropped on an empty board.
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Kirian

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #373 on: December 15, 2014, 04:58:25 pm »
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There are also more midgame cards in arena now, I think. Mechanical Yeti, Burly Rockjaw, and Piloted Shredder give more reason to worry about early game board control. There are a now more 4 drops that are scary when dropped on an empty board.

Also Spider Tank.  Even if it were not a mech, that 3/4 for 3 is a huge change.
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popsofctown

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #374 on: December 17, 2014, 04:30:51 pm »
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After losing over and over again lately I got 12-1 as Druid with double Druid of the Fang, multiple swipes, and Ironbark, Ancient, Sunwalker, Skygolem, and a Kodo.

It's really not that hard to make the fatties druid deck come together, I get stomped by those kinds of decks all the time, which is why I wanted to build one.  I'm pretty sure the basic frequency has remained constant, so you still get lots of Swipe and Ironbark and rely on the new cards for Druid's gaps in 2-4 cost minions.  It seems pretty good. 
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