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theory

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Arena General Discussion
« on: June 17, 2014, 06:45:11 pm »
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Share your bad beats and lucky breaks!

Here's my only 12-win deck.  I had a ridiculously good streak of opponents towards the end that helped me get to this :) http://arenamastery.com/jRfq
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ycz6

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2014, 01:01:41 pm »
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Here's a 12-1 Paladin deck I drafted recently. I got insanely good cards overall, to the point where my fifth-worst card is probably something like Argent Squire or Hammer of Wrath.
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ycz6

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2014, 01:17:04 pm »
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So in honor of RDU's win at Dreamhack, I drafted a Mage deck where, in the first game, after playing 0 cards in the first 3 turns, I made the following play:

Turn 8 Molten Giant, Defender of Argus
Turn 9 Archmage Antonidas, Arcane Missiles, Arcane Missiles

and won by concession two turns later.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2014, 01:18:22 pm by ycz6 »
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Watno

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2014, 02:58:47 pm »
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Just came back after taking a few months break.
It started badly with Warlock only getting 1 win, but quickly got better with an 8 win Shaman and my 2nd 12 wins, again with a paladin.
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KingZog3

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2014, 03:12:04 pm »
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My highest is 8 wins, although I had a really good Druid deck that I lost all 3 games due to disconnects from my laptop. Otherwise I was at 5-0 and every game I dc'd from looked like a win. It might have gotten 12.
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theory

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2014, 10:31:53 am »
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Innervate out a Yeti, he Coins out a Emperor Cobra ...

RIP double-digit-win Druid.
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ycz6

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2014, 01:03:09 pm »
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My highest is 8 wins, although I had a really good Druid deck that I lost all 3 games due to disconnects from my laptop. Otherwise I was at 5-0 and every game I dc'd from looked like a win. It might have gotten 12.
Why would you keep playing after two DCs? :P
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KingZog3

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2014, 01:24:44 pm »
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My highest is 8 wins, although I had a really good Druid deck that I lost all 3 games due to disconnects from my laptop. Otherwise I was at 5-0 and every game I dc'd from looked like a win. It might have gotten 12.
Why would you keep playing after two DCs? :P

They weren't in a row. I kept fiddling with my router when I DC'd to get it working again, my internet came back, and seemed stable after some internet surfing, and then BAM! DC'd again!
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shraeye

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2014, 02:11:29 pm »
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A very disappointing 1-3 loss.  http://www.twitch.tv/shraeye/b/539930374

Arena drafting starts at 42:30 and goes pretty slowly (but if you're a completionist, you can watch this)

Game 1...starts at 1:14:00...Lost to a Priest

Game 2...starts at 1:36:00...win against a Paladin

Game 3...starts at 1:55:30...lost to a Rogue

Game 4...starts at 2:10:00...Lost to a Paladin.

If clever people could isolate 1 play on each game, and tell me how I could do better on that single play....I imagine the accumlated advice will help me get better.
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theory

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2014, 02:46:05 pm »
+2

Game 3: I would have tokened instead of dropping the Faerie.  They have the same net effect of removing the 2/1 except one costs you a minion/card in exchange for 2 life.  In general if you can take face damage, you should take face damage (unless they are "wasting" a lot of damage otherwise, i.e., killing an 8/1 with Argent Squire instead of your face).

I would have then coined out Gurubashi (which can kill Cult Master) or Druid of the Claw, but not Venture Co for the reasons you mentioned.  The Venture Co slows you down so much and you are racing hard against the Rogue.

Also Game 4, at 2:18, why not Azure -> Innervate -> Hero Power?? :(
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2014, 03:24:03 pm »
+1

A very disappointing 1-3 loss.  http://www.twitch.tv/shraeye/b/539930374

Arena drafting starts at 42:30 and goes pretty slowly (but if you're a completionist, you can watch this)

Game 1...starts at 1:14:00...Lost to a Priest

Game 2...starts at 1:36:00...win against a Paladin

Game 3...starts at 1:55:30...lost to a Rogue

Game 4...starts at 2:10:00...Lost to a Paladin.

If clever people could isolate 1 play on each game, and tell me how I could do better on that single play....I imagine the accumlated advice will help me get better.

Game 1 was just Deathwing, not a whole lot you could have done.

Game 3, I agree with theory's analysis (but actually the Faerie dragon just saved you 1 life, not 2, since hero power also gives armor.
Also turn 3, you talked about using the coin. You should have done it. Essentially, it's buying you 2 mana here, since you're wasting 1 by not playing it. The extra 3/2 can go a long way to getting that early board control. In fact, it would have enabled you to just kill his Cult Master next turn.
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shraeye

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2014, 03:32:45 pm »
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thanks for that game 3 explanation, both of you.  I totally understand what you are getting at, and hopefully i won't do something similar in the future.
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KingZog3

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2014, 03:39:15 pm »
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Its partly my fault because he was asking what a good use for a coin is, and I said to bring minions out early. i saw Venture co. so I just said as an example a Venture co. turn 4.
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Jdaki

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2014, 03:46:21 pm »
+1

You should have won Game 4 but you make a couple of mistakes.
You forget about the second play of Noble Sacrifice, though you remembered for the first one, you should have hero power to trigger it. (and you would have won!)

I would have cleared the board on the first 10 mana turn as well- there is no point trying to save the Venture Co- it is negative value really, because it is increasing your cost. At that point you have card advantage so you want to clear his board and take the advantage and not bother trying to eek a little more value out of those cards. You actually do well in the next turn, but rather fortunately.
The innervated Ironbark isn't great because you know he has at least 7 damage out there, both 3 cost cards, so you will sacrifice the 8 cost for a 3cost (the Scarlet has shield).
Otherwise, there weren't any really bad plays from what I saw (I only watched that last game), so I'm sure you will improve quickly.

The innervated Turn 1 1-4 would have been a solid play imo btw, as you know it will take out the tokens, and worst case is a +2 buff on the worgen, in which case you can still take the board control.
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theory

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2014, 03:50:10 pm »
+2

thanks for that game 3 explanation, both of you.  I totally understand what you are getting at, and hopefully i won't do something similar in the future.

What helped me understand it was, imagine I had two separate pools of health.  In one pool, every time I take damage, I also lose some ability to damage.  In the other, nothing happens until I take 30 damage.  Framed this way, obviously I will always prefer to take damage in the latter unless it's grossly disproportionate.  And moreover, I try to find opportunities to take damage in my second pool to deal damage to his first pool.  It's like how you would rather trash your opponent's Gold in exchange for taking -1VP.
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KingZog3

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2014, 04:28:22 pm »
+1

thanks for that game 3 explanation, both of you.  I totally understand what you are getting at, and hopefully i won't do something similar in the future.

What helped me understand it was, imagine I had two separate pools of health.  In one pool, every time I take damage, I also lose some ability to damage.  In the other, nothing happens until I take 30 damage.  Framed this way, obviously I will always prefer to take damage in the latter unless it's grossly disproportionate.  And moreover, I try to find opportunities to take damage in my second pool to deal damage to his first pool.  It's like how you would rather trash your opponent's Gold in exchange for taking -1VP.

At the same time it depends on what deck you're playing. I'l more careful playing against mages, especially when they haven't used things like fireballs yet since they can a put a lot of damage regardless of board condition.
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Jdaki

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2014, 05:49:27 pm »
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After a dire Priest performance I went Mage again, and am currently 3-0, now when I get a good deck I can normally cruise to 5-0, then it can be a bit dodgy as to if I keep making it to at least 8 (when I relax) and beyond, or collapse at 5/6/7.
Now I reckon this is pretty awesome, but then I have been wrong before, and it's too early to see from results- what do people think, predictions time!

2 Mirror Image, 1 Mana Wyrm, 2 Frostbolt, 1 Thalnos, 1 Doomsayer, 1 Faerie Dragon, 1 Owl, 1 Juggler, 1 Sorc Apprentice, 1 Youthful Brewmaster, 1 Arcane Intellect, 1 Spellbender, 1 Farseer, 1 Mind Control tech, 1 Razorfen Hunter, 3 (!) Fireball, 1 Poly, 1 Ogre Magi, 2 Water Ele, 1 Frostwolf Warlord, 1 Auctioneer, 1 Blizzard, 1 Argent Commander, 1 Flamestrike, 1 Champion.

Still haven't tried out any of the arena trackers, tempted by the automatic ones though.
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KingZog3

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2014, 06:30:33 pm »
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After a dire Priest performance I went Mage again, and am currently 3-0, now when I get a good deck I can normally cruise to 5-0, then it can be a bit dodgy as to if I keep making it to at least 8 (when I relax) and beyond, or collapse at 5/6/7.
Now I reckon this is pretty awesome, but then I have been wrong before, and it's too early to see from results- what do people think, predictions time!

2 Mirror Image, 1 Mana Wyrm, 2 Frostbolt, 1 Thalnos, 1 Doomsayer, 1 Faerie Dragon, 1 Owl, 1 Juggler, 1 Sorc Apprentice, 1 Youthful Brewmaster, 1 Arcane Intellect, 1 Spellbender, 1 Farseer, 1 Mind Control tech, 1 Razorfen Hunter, 3 (!) Fireball, 1 Poly, 1 Ogre Magi, 2 Water Ele, 1 Frostwolf Warlord, 1 Auctioneer, 1 Blizzard, 1 Argent Commander, 1 Flamestrike, 1 Champion.

Still haven't tried out any of the arena trackers, tempted by the automatic ones though.

Seems like a great deck. Doomsayer is pretty terrible in arena though. Nearly anything is better. Even Hungry Crab, which I took once when i was offered Doomsayer, Crab and another terrible epic that I can't remember.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2014, 06:50:45 pm »
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^Doomsayer is better than Crab (and probably Mountain Giant, at least for Mage), imo. It at least usually trades with other 2-drops, though you have to take the face hit, and sometimes you get 2-for-1 out of it. Plus, since the board clears at the start of your turn, you get that tempo edge. And even if they manage to kill the Doomsayer, at least it soaked up 7 damage. You won't often get the huge clears you get in constructed Freeze Mage decks, but it's much more capable of trading than Crab is.
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KingZog3

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2014, 06:52:51 pm »
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^Doomsayer is better than Crab (and probably Mountain Giant, at least for Mage), imo. It at least usually trades with other 2-drops, though you have to take the face hit, and sometimes you get 2-for-1 out of it. Plus, since the board clears at the start of your turn, you get that tempo edge. And even if they manage to kill the Doomsayer, at least it soaked up 7 damage. You won't often get the huge clears you get in constructed Freeze Mage decks, but it's much more capable of trading than Crab is.

I suppose. Not sure I was playing mage when I took the crab, but yeah I guess its better than i give it credit for.
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theory

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2014, 01:37:24 am »
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So excited about this deck: http://arenamastery.com/A1aD

I predict great things in store! 
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Titandrake

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2014, 04:37:01 am »
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So excited about this deck: http://arenamastery.com/A1aD

I predict great things in store!

On the one hand, it's sad you don't have any Cruel Taskmasters to combo with Amani/Execute/Acolyte of Pain. On the other hand...everything else.
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markusin

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2014, 09:38:15 am »
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I got 8-3 on my last Arena run. That's a personal best! My first few runs as Mage have been lackluster, but this time she delivered.

Here the deck:
http://arenamastery.com/oXWm

I lost to a couple of aggro Paladins and a Mage who might have had 3 Flamestrikes. I can't remember. Having lots of 3 health Minions seemed to throw off my opponents. Mages can't ping them off as easily, they're less vulnerable to Consecrate, and Backstab can't 1-shot them. One of the highlights of the run was destroying Deathwing with a Big Game Hunter the turn after Deathwing was summoned.

Mirror Entity and Archmage Antonidas had a lackluster performance, but the winner of the Most Useless Card Award went to Faceless Manipulator.

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KingZog3

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2014, 09:45:44 am »
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I got 8-3 on my last Arena run. That's a personal best! My first few runs as Mage have been lackluster, but this time she delivered.

Here the deck:
http://arenamastery.com/oXWm

I lost to a couple of aggro Paladins and a Mage who might have had 3 Flamestrikes. I can't remember. Having lots of 3 health Minions seemed to throw off my opponents. Mages can't ping them off as easily, they're less vulnerable to Consecrate, and Backstab can't 1-shot them. One of the highlights of the run was destroying Deathwing with a Big Game Hunter the turn after Deathwing was summoned.

Mirror Entity and Archmage Antonidas had a lackluster performance, but the winner of the Most Useless Card Award went to Faceless Manipulator.

Faceless the Deathwing, then Big Game Hunter to kill his Deathwing.
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theory

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2014, 10:00:45 am »
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So excited about this deck: http://arenamastery.com/A1aD

I predict great things in store!

On the one hand, it's sad you don't have any Cruel Taskmasters to combo with Amani/Execute/Acolyte of Pain. On the other hand...everything else.

I think my only two "bad" cards are Nightblade (which isn't even that bad in this type of deck) and Silvermoon Guardian (which I've comboed with Warsong Commander twice so far to act as a poor man's Argent Commander).  Gnomish Inventor/Shield Block are nice but doesn't fit into the theme of the deck (maybe Jungle Panther was the right call ...).
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markusin

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2014, 11:21:04 am »
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I got 8-3 on my last Arena run. That's a personal best! My first few runs as Mage have been lackluster, but this time she delivered.

Here the deck:
http://arenamastery.com/oXWm

I lost to a couple of aggro Paladins and a Mage who might have had 3 Flamestrikes. I can't remember. Having lots of 3 health Minions seemed to throw off my opponents. Mages can't ping them off as easily, they're less vulnerable to Consecrate, and Backstab can't 1-shot them. One of the highlights of the run was destroying Deathwing with a Big Game Hunter the turn after Deathwing was summoned.

Mirror Entity and Archmage Antonidas had a lackluster performance, but the winner of the Most Useless Card Award went to Faceless Manipulator.

Faceless the Deathwing, then Big Game Hunter to kill his Deathwing.
I'm not saying the Faceless couldn't have been useful under different circumstances. The closest it got to doing something good was copying a 14/3 Gurubashi, but I was going to win anyway so I didn't end up doing it.
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theory

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2014, 12:20:07 am »
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So excited about this deck: http://arenamastery.com/A1aD

I predict great things in store!

On the one hand, it's sad you don't have any Cruel Taskmasters to combo with Amani/Execute/Acolyte of Pain. On the other hand...everything else.

I think my only two "bad" cards are Nightblade (which isn't even that bad in this type of deck) and Silvermoon Guardian (which I've comboed with Warsong Commander twice so far to act as a poor man's Argent Commander).  Gnomish Inventor/Shield Block are nice but doesn't fit into the theme of the deck (maybe Jungle Panther was the right call ...).

One freakin' Mortal Strike and I go 12-0. Instead I go 8-3, each time with my opponent < 5 health but me unable to win a topdecking war and with no burn other than Nightblade. Most galling is my last loss, where I have 15 damage on the board, he's at 1 health, and his last three cards are Boulderfist Ogre -> (free) Molten Giant -> Defender of Argus GG
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KingZog3

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2014, 12:36:21 am »
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So excited about this deck: http://arenamastery.com/A1aD

I predict great things in store!

On the one hand, it's sad you don't have any Cruel Taskmasters to combo with Amani/Execute/Acolyte of Pain. On the other hand...everything else.

I think my only two "bad" cards are Nightblade (which isn't even that bad in this type of deck) and Silvermoon Guardian (which I've comboed with Warsong Commander twice so far to act as a poor man's Argent Commander).  Gnomish Inventor/Shield Block are nice but doesn't fit into the theme of the deck (maybe Jungle Panther was the right call ...).

One freakin' Mortal Strike and I go 12-0. Instead I go 8-3, each time with my opponent < 5 health but me unable to win a topdecking war and with no burn other than Nightblade. Most galling is my last loss, where I have 15 damage on the board, he's at 1 health, and his last three cards are Boulderfist Ogre -> (free) Molten Giant -> Defender of Argus GG

I feel your pain. Then again, Warrior is one of the worst classes in arena. 8-3 is damn good.
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mpsprs

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2014, 01:12:04 pm »
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After having all of my arenas go 3 wins or fewer (except a freak 7 win arena in my third effort-no idea how that happened), my last went 4-3, and now I'm in the midst of a 4-0 arena run!  I've been savoring it by going slow, so it may be a bit before I finish.  I'd love feedback on my choices.  Any thoughts on what is making this work out so much better, and also what probably would have been even better.  Here's the arena: http://arenamastery.com/OMDf  I figure I'm already raising my average, so anything else is just gravy from here on out.

Jdaki

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2014, 01:21:10 pm »
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So excited about this deck: http://arenamastery.com/A1aD

I predict great things in store!

On the one hand, it's sad you don't have any Cruel Taskmasters to combo with Amani/Execute/Acolyte of Pain. On the other hand...everything else.

I think my only two "bad" cards are Nightblade (which isn't even that bad in this type of deck) and Silvermoon Guardian (which I've comboed with Warsong Commander twice so far to act as a poor man's Argent Commander).  Gnomish Inventor/Shield Block are nice but doesn't fit into the theme of the deck (maybe Jungle Panther was the right call ...).

One freakin' Mortal Strike and I go 12-0. Instead I go 8-3, each time with my opponent < 5 health but me unable to win a topdecking war and with no burn other than Nightblade. Most galling is my last loss, where I have 15 damage on the board, he's at 1 health, and his last three cards are Boulderfist Ogre -> (free) Molten Giant -> Defender of Argus GG

I feel your pain. Then again, Warrior is one of the worst classes in arena. 8-3 is damn good.

Although Warrior lack a little powerful class minions, weapons are great in arena, and the chance to draft 2 or 3 Flaming War Axe alone makes Warrior one of my favourite arena picks, probably only below Paladin and of course, Mage.
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Jdaki

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2014, 01:32:09 pm »
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After having all of my arenas go 3 wins or fewer (except a freak 7 win arena in my third effort-no idea how that happened), my last went 4-3, and now I'm in the midst of a 4-0 arena run!  I've been savoring it by going slow, so it may be a bit before I finish.  I'd love feedback on my choices.  Any thoughts on what is making this work out so much better, and also what probably would have been even better.  Here's the arena: http://arenamastery.com/OMDf  I figure I'm already raising my average, so anything else is just gravy from here on out.

It's a pretty solid draft- there are a good number of 2 drops and spells to give you early game aggression, that many players may not be able to survive. However there are maybe a couple too many 5s and not really any really big end game minions, so you will suffer a bit if you start getting to turn 10 later on more often. Gurubashi can often suffice though as an effective 7 drop 5-6
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mpsprs

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2014, 03:32:58 pm »
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It's a pretty solid draft- there are a good number of 2 drops and spells to give you early game aggression, that many players may not be able to survive. However there are maybe a couple too many 5s and not really any really big end game minions, so you will suffer a bit if you start getting to turn 10 later on more often. Gurubashi can often suffice though as an effective 7 drop 5-6

Yeah.  I wasn't offered much on the top end at all.  I passed up a Venture Co (for Flamestrike) and a few other core hounds, and that's it.  And you have hit exactly my reason for taking a second gurubashi so late.  In any case, so far I think double fireball has ended all my matches.  I've been guarding them zealously to make up for my lack of late game.

ycz6

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2014, 05:36:36 pm »
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Just went 12-2 with a Paladin deck with 0 Consecrations  :D

MVP was probably Aldor Peacekeeper - got a clutch 50% probability Peacekeeper > Stampeding Kodo on an Earth Elemental which basically won the game, then hit two Venture Co.s in later games. Got pretty good value out of two Earthen Ring Farseers, too, healing big guys after killing Sen'jins and such.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2014, 06:06:08 pm »
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Drafted a really interesting control Paladin. It doesn't have the best early game, but it does have

1x Wild Pyromancer
1x Equality
2x Hammer of Wrath
2x Consecration
1x Truesilver

with Venture Co, Stormwind Champion, and Guardian of Kings as my "finishers". It has a surprising amount of card draw in it - I just played against a Mage who triggered Acolyte of Pains 5 times, and was still only one card behind him when we got into fatigue.

The downside is that all my games take much longer, meaning I have a lot more chances to misplay. So far, it's 4-1, but it should be very good if I can dodge all the aggro decks. Oddly enough, my 1x Holy Wrath has been MVP so far, has done 5 damage every time I've played it so far.
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nkirbit

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2014, 11:02:41 pm »
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http://imgur.com/n47PKtY

I did this a while ago in arena.. it was fun!
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2014, 01:12:05 am »
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And that Paladin went 5-3. Really wish I had those games recorded, because I'm sure I made subtle mistakes all over the place.

In related news, turn 2 Coin -> SI:7 to kill a 3/2 is the most annoying turn 2 play I've seen...and this is from being on both the delivering and receiving end.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2014, 07:53:06 am »
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And that Paladin went 5-3. Really wish I had those games recorded, because I'm sure I made subtle mistakes all over the place.

In related news, turn 2 Coin -> SI:7 to kill a 3/2 is the most annoying turn 2 play I've seen...and this is from being on both the delivering and receiving end.

Not nearly as annoying as turn 2 Mad Bomber that kills your 2 drop.
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theory

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2014, 08:32:33 am »
+1

Especially when that 2 drop was your own Mad Bomber aka 2-mana Flame Imp
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2014, 08:58:23 am »
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And that Paladin went 5-3. Really wish I had those games recorded, because I'm sure I made subtle mistakes all over the place.

In related news, turn 2 Coin -> SI:7 to kill a 3/2 is the most annoying turn 2 play I've seen...and this is from being on both the delivering and receiving end.

Obviously you counter this by not playing a 2-drop.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2014, 03:37:30 pm »
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I just went 6-3 with this Warlock deck:
http://arenamastery.com/vrNi

It was about to get my 7th win, but I made a stupid misclick and played my Venture Co. before my Worgen Infiltrator and that made the Infiltrator too expensive to play with the Demonfire I needed to play too. My Rogue opponent beat we with 1 health remaining, which I could have taken away had the Infiltrator been on the fielf. Argh!

Still, not bad for Warlock. The other choices for heroes were Priest and Hunter.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2014, 04:09:41 pm »
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I just went 6-3 with this Warlock deck:
http://arenamastery.com/vrNi

It was about to get my 7th win, but I made a stupid misclick and played my Venture Co. before my Worgen Infiltrator and that made the Infiltrator too expensive to play with the Demonfire I needed to play too. My Rogue opponent beat we with 1 health remaining, which I could have taken away had the Infiltrator been on the fielf. Argh!

Still, not bad for Warlock. The other choices for heroes were Priest and Hunter.

I actually think Priest isn't a bad arena class, despite its low win rate %. The problem is that you're at the mercy of your draft - a middling/mediocre Priest is much worse than a mediocre Mage/Paladin. However, there are a lot of good Priest rares (Shadow Madness, Auchenai, Holy Fire) that can completely take over a game.

The way I see it is that Priest decks are either amazing 9+ win monsters that get control early and never let it go, or bad ~3 win decks that don't have enough Novas for aggro or ways to actually kill Yetis and Dark Iron Dwarfs.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2014, 04:42:33 pm »
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^You can say the same about Warlock and Hunter. That's why those are the worst 3 classes.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #42 on: June 25, 2014, 12:06:23 pm »
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After having all of my arenas go 3 wins or fewer (except a freak 7 win arena in my third effort-no idea how that happened), my last went 4-3, and now I'm in the midst of a 4-0 arena run! 

Still going!  I'm up to 8-2 now.  Both losses were to rogues.  In general I seem to struggle against them.  In both games I got destroyed early by backstabs, and since I have no late game, it was game over.

On the other hand, I had my luckiest win ever: Against a druid, I got done to 1 health with an empty board while I was topdecking.  My opponent was still in the 20's.  Drew Arcane Intellect, which drew Arcane Intellect and something, which drew silverback patriarch.   Opp hit the silverback for 1.  Gradually I pulled back even on the board, as he gradually whittled down the patriarch.  I was helped by a water elemental to slow things down.  Finally got a Fen Creeper as my second to last card, sent everything to face.    He couldn't empty my board, and conceded before what was necessarily my last turn (since fatigue would kill me on the next).  Thrilling!

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2014, 05:53:04 pm »
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I just got a double legendary. Picked Cenarius twice. Should be fun :P
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #44 on: June 28, 2014, 05:19:50 am »
+1

In my first arena I got to pick two Leeroys. Can't really remember anything else about that draft, though. I think I went something like 4-3.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #45 on: June 30, 2014, 12:37:44 am »
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Paladin vs Paladin

I go second.

T1: Pass
T1: Voodoo Doctor
T2: Make 1/1
T2: Coin, Tauren Warrior. Hit for 2.
T3: Argent Protector. Pass
T3: Blood Knight. Trade 2/1 for Argent, kill 1/1 with Tauren to trigger enrage. (So now I have a 6/6 and a 5/2 taunt on turn 3)
T4: Oasis Snapjaw
T4: SSC on Tauren Warrior (now Snapjaw can't kill alone), send both to face. Opp at 16.
T5: Truesilver, kill Tauren, Snapjaw kills SSC. Opp at 12.
T5: Harvest Golem + Croc, hit face, opp at 6.
Resign

I felt awful for my opponent, as soon as I could stop laughing.
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theory

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #46 on: June 30, 2014, 09:18:59 am »
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Second 12-win arena!  :) :)

Here's the deck:   http://arenamastery.com/qjl4

I think I made all the right plays but feel free to correct me: http://www.twitch.tv/10b5/b/543192915

The Master of Disguise/Cult Master combo won me multiple games.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #47 on: June 30, 2014, 06:22:51 pm »
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Second 12-win arena!  :) :)

Here's the deck:   http://arenamastery.com/qjl4

I think I made all the right plays but feel free to correct me: http://www.twitch.tv/10b5/b/543192915

The Master of Disguise/Cult Master combo won me multiple games.

Grats!  I was online and got a popup telling me you had just finished this run.

Nice rewards?
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theory

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #48 on: June 30, 2014, 06:38:44 pm »
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Second 12-win arena!  :) :)

Here's the deck:   http://arenamastery.com/qjl4

I think I made all the right plays but feel free to correct me: http://www.twitch.tv/10b5/b/543192915

The Master of Disguise/Cult Master combo won me multiple games.

Grats!  I was online and got a popup telling me you had just finished this run.

Nice rewards?

In the video you can actually see yourself sign off and on ;-)

Pretty good rewards.  Nothing super memorable though.
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ycz6

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #49 on: July 01, 2014, 03:35:14 am »
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Some dude just played Scarlet Crusader into my Mirror Entity, then played Blood Knight. I literally cried.

Guess it made up for me Polymorphing his Tirion Fordring on the previous turn.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #50 on: July 01, 2014, 03:43:55 am »
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I still think you came out on top of that exchange.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #51 on: July 01, 2014, 04:47:54 am »
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What the hell

This was the most ridiculous 2-3 arena ever

Loss 1 had the aforementioned Scarlet Crusader + Mirror Entity + Blood Knight play, and the dude's deck also had a load of expensive minions (Tirion, Booty Bay Bodyguard, Lord of the Arena, Guardian of Kings, Frostwolf Warlord) with which he just steamrolled me lategame.

Loss 2, I had lethal and had Cone of Colded most of his board, but he killed me with a leftover Stranglethorn Tiger + Claw + double Savage Roar for 20 damage and the win.

Loss 3, I'm up 30 health to 6, with a 9/9 Questing Adventurer and three other minions out. He has a Doomhammer and no minions. He drops Deathwing, I panic slightly but drop Mind Control Tech + Venture Co. and still have lethal. He topdecks Feral Spirit and hits my face for 16, I can't do anything with the 5 cards in my hand and he hits me for 16 again the next turn.

man
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #52 on: July 01, 2014, 11:41:28 am »
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Deathwing is just not possible to predict. If you have a response he's screwed, if not you're screwed.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #53 on: July 01, 2014, 01:00:09 pm »
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Tuesday morning Arena.  Here are my games, if you've got some time and feel like sharing advice:

Game 1: loss vs Rogue http://www.twitch.tv/shraeye/c/4574396
Game 2: win vs Shaman http://www.twitch.tv/shraeye/c/4574478
game 3: loss vs Rogue http://www.twitch.tv/shraeye/c/4574545
game 4: win by AFK...ain't nobody want to watch that
game 5: loss vs Mage http://www.twitch.tv/shraeye/c/4574585

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #54 on: July 01, 2014, 01:39:34 pm »
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Deathwing is just not possible to predict. If you have a response he's screwed, if not you're screwed.

The thing is, reasonably often you don't have removal, but the answer is to race it. But then when you lose to their topdeck, it's upsetting.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #55 on: July 01, 2014, 01:49:54 pm »
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Game 5:

I would have Argused for sure.  You are right that you can just silence him later.  It's suboptimal to Argus the SC because the +1/+1 doesn't really matter (he's going to ping off the shield anyway), but it's preferable to playing into a bad trade (his 3/2 into your 4/3).

"Keeping the Divine Shield up for as long as I can" ... not good practice anyway and definitely not against a Mage.

On Turn 7, you point out that he has flamestrike but still play into it.  Sunwalker is much preferable.

After Argusing the Acolyte you pointed out your own mistake with the trade.  Don't let him ping if you can help it.  You were fine with the 3/2 potentially attacking your Acolyte, in fact that's even preferable.  I guess he might SSC or Argus it into your Acolyte which would be bad.

OMGGGGGGGGG why no frothing berserker!!! :( :( :(  He's played one flamestrike already, whatever, maybe you don't Faceless it.  But certainly don't Faceless a 4-mana creature!!!!!!!  That was the best possible situation for a Frothing (multiple trades happening AND he's still protected by a taunt).

Too conservative with Commanding Shout.  You'll never get much more value out of it at that stage of the game.  The later it goes the worse it is.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #56 on: July 01, 2014, 02:54:39 pm »
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Game 1: loss vs Rogue http://www.twitch.tv/shraeye/c/4574396
game 3: loss vs Rogue http://www.twitch.tv/shraeye/c/4574545

Game 1 turn 7, 2/3 vs 7/3 taunt:
You should Faceless then Slam. You just Slammed hoping to draw something. It looked like you realized it later (I watched without sound), but at that point, it's still probably worth playing the Faceless. you have plenty of cards but are short on life. there's a good chance you won't get to use the card anyway, so don't worry about wasting it. Wasting the tempo (5 mana to just armor up) is worse. The alternative (weaker but still better than what you did) is to play Battle Rage to draw a card. Again you're not getting great value from the card, but you're not worried about that kind of value at this point, you'd rather just get another card instead.

Game 3 I didn't see anything really wrong. Just got Rogued there...
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #57 on: July 01, 2014, 11:15:13 pm »
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Just won the closest arena game I've ever played. I was at 6-1 and both me and my opponent had mage decks loaded with good spells (flamestrike, blizzard, fireball, frostbolt, polymorph) but with minions that aren't so great. We cleared each other's boards repeatedly and went into topdeck mode until we had both exhausted our decks and were taking fatigue. I won when he took 2 points fatigue damage with me at 1 life.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #58 on: July 02, 2014, 12:01:23 am »
0

Just won the closest arena game I've ever played. I was at 6-1 and both me and my opponent had mage decks loaded with good spells (flamestrike, blizzard, fireball, frostbolt, polymorph) but with minions that aren't so great. We cleared each other's boards repeatedly and went into topdeck mode until we had both exhausted our decks and were taking fatigue. I won when he took 2 points fatigue damage with me at 1 life.

Does Fatigue go up one HP per card?  Like, 1 HP, then 2 HP, then 3 HP?  Or is it static?
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #59 on: July 02, 2014, 12:10:38 am »
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Just won the closest arena game I've ever played. I was at 6-1 and both me and my opponent had mage decks loaded with good spells (flamestrike, blizzard, fireball, frostbolt, polymorph) but with minions that aren't so great. We cleared each other's boards repeatedly and went into topdeck mode until we had both exhausted our decks and were taking fatigue. I won when he took 2 points fatigue damage with me at 1 life.

Does Fatigue go up one HP per card?  Like, 1 HP, then 2 HP, then 3 HP?  Or is it static?

It goes up in order to force the game to end. Otherwise Priest, Warrior and Druid could outlast some opponents.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #60 on: July 02, 2014, 12:39:24 am »
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Just won the closest arena game I've ever played. I was at 6-1 and both me and my opponent had mage decks loaded with good spells (flamestrike, blizzard, fireball, frostbolt, polymorph) but with minions that aren't so great. We cleared each other's boards repeatedly and went into topdeck mode until we had both exhausted our decks and were taking fatigue. I won when he took 2 points fatigue damage with me at 1 life.

Does Fatigue go up one HP per card?  Like, 1 HP, then 2 HP, then 3 HP?  Or is it static?
Yep, the damage taken increases by 1 each time you try to draw a card from the empty deck.
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shraeye

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #61 on: July 08, 2014, 10:21:02 am »
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Tuesday morning Arena....warlock this time.  Sound quality was terrible, so I decided not to break it out into highlights.  My apologies for that (http://www.twitch.tv/shraeye/b/545612956)

Game 1: win vs Mage; starts at 3:03, goes long
Game 2: loss vs Mage; starts at 21:44, ends at 30:50
game 3: loss vs Rogue; starts at 32:05, ends at 39:29
game 4: win vs Mage; starts at 40:25, ends at 47:45
game 5: win vs Mage; starts at 50:05, ends at 1:02:00
Game 6: loss vs Paladin; starts at 1:04:00, ends at 1:17:02
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #62 on: July 08, 2014, 11:16:34 am »
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Wow, lots of mages! I'm on my phone, but what was your deck like? Minion spam?
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #63 on: July 08, 2014, 12:37:17 pm »
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i have no idea; my deck felt pretty crappy.  Lots of stealth minions, surprisingly.  Only 1 taunt (Mogushan).

Here are my picks: http://arenamastery.com/O4bh
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #64 on: July 08, 2014, 03:32:46 pm »
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I don't have time to watch the games, but here's my thoughts on your draft.

First off, warlock can play in a couple of different ways:
1. Super low curve, using hero power to avoid empty hand
2. Very controlly, trying to mostly trade 1-for-1 with everything, and winning on card advantage in the late turns when your opponent runs out of cards but you can still tap

The tough part about drafting Warlock is that since you can't see what you're going to be offered, it's hard to know which way to lean with your picks. This makes Warlock one of the weaker arena classes despite having the best hero power in the game.

If you're trying to get a 12 win run, maybe you want to just go with (1) and hope you get offered the cards for it, but if you're trying to be a little more consistent at getting 7, you should just pick higher quality cards and re-evaluate your position halfway through the draft to see if you can skew one way or the other.

Specific picks:
2. guru berzerker > voodoo doc. is this because you're trying to do low curve? this is not unreasonable since berzerker isn't that great of a card, but voodoo doc is pretty bad..
6. demonfire or frost would > rocketeer. even if you want to be aggressive, this is too much of a sacrifice of quality. demonfire is fine for tempo as it trades with a 3/2.
7. ancient brewmaster > silver hand knight. you may not agree in general (i know a lot of lists rank silver hand knight really highly) but if you're trying to lower your curve, here's a reasonable place to do it
9. farseer >> drain life. same mana cost, one does smite and heals less, while the other is a 3/3 and heals more (and isn't restriced to healing your hero). not sure what the justification for picking drain life could be...
13. senjin > shadow bolt >> blood imp. blood imp is a pretty useless card. it can't kill anything and can only hope to meaningfully buff something. sen'jin is one of the best cards you can get in arena.
15. mechanic / power overwhelming > novice. you don't need card draw. your hero power does that. this is essentially wisp + hero power
26. rocketeer > warden. warden is pretty terrible. it's essentially a 4-mana weaker version of frost nova.
29. voidwalker / healer > succubus. there are too many 3/2s that trade up with succubus for it to be worth 2 cards.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #65 on: July 08, 2014, 03:52:06 pm »
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i have no idea; my deck felt pretty crappy.  Lots of stealth minions, surprisingly.  Only 1 taunt (Mogushan).

Here are my picks: http://arenamastery.com/O4bh

On my phone, so it's hard to see well. But 100% not rocketeer. Demon fire sure there. I'll look at the rest when I get home to a computer.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #66 on: July 08, 2014, 05:12:23 pm »
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7. ancient brewmaster > silver hand knight. you may not agree in general (i know a lot of lists rank silver hand knight really highly) but if you're trying to lower your curve, here's a reasonable place to do it
I know you're suggesting this based off curve, but the quality difference is so huge here. Ancient Brew is IMO one of the weaker good cards due to only having 4 health, which is pretty easy to trade with (frostbolt ping, raptor ping, etc.). Meanwhile Silver Hand Knight is just ridiculously good, pretty often going 2-for-1. Its only big weakness is Flamestrike.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #67 on: July 08, 2014, 06:08:18 pm »
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7. ancient brewmaster > silver hand knight. you may not agree in general (i know a lot of lists rank silver hand knight really highly) but if you're trying to lower your curve, here's a reasonable place to do it
I know you're suggesting this based off curve, but the quality difference is so huge here. Ancient Brew is IMO one of the weaker good cards due to only having 4 health, which is pretty easy to trade with (frostbolt ping, raptor ping, etc.). Meanwhile Silver Hand Knight is just ridiculously good, pretty often going 2-for-1. Its only big weakness is Flamestrike.

Silver Hand Knight also only has 4 health...

This is probably a whole separate discussion, but I think Silver Hand Knight is super overrated in general. I don't think it goes 2-for-1 all that often. At turn 5 or later, the 2/2 isn't doing much a lot of the time, and the 4/4 dies to everything that Brewmaster dies to, and doesn't even killing the Yeti/Tiger/Warlord in return. You're much more likely to get a 2-for-1 out of other 5-drops like Commando or Smith. Anyway, you don't want so many 5s, and Merc/Tiger/Warlord are all pretty clearly better imo. How good is the 4th best 5-drop -- especially if it's not so much better than the next 3 (Smith, Creeper, Commando)? It can't be *that* much better than a 4-drop that trades with Yetis and kills Sen'jins.

EDIT: I try to keep an updated list of my overall arena card rankings, and plan to at some point post them here or something if people care. I currently have Silver Hand at 26 and Ancient Brewmaster at 30, both slightly worse than Raptor (25).
« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 06:11:31 pm by HiveMindEmulator »
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blueblimp

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #68 on: July 08, 2014, 07:37:18 pm »
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The knight has 6 health, yes, but you get a total of 6 health between the two minions. (Not that it matters vs Flamestrike.) Maybe it's too bold to claim it often goes 2-for-1, but 1.5-for-1, sure, because it'll typically take a card to kill the knight, and then the squire is still hanging around to do stuff. A free 2/2 is nothing to sneeze at, even on turn 5.

It seems clearly better to me than Warlord, which to get 6/6 of stats out of you need two minions in play, which is a bit of a "win more" situation, whereas Knight remains a good play when your board is empty. Smith is better for weapon classes of course (especially Rogue), but for other classes it's debatable, because of Smith's weakness to Fireball.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #69 on: July 08, 2014, 08:06:59 pm »
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You don't need to make the Warlord a 6/6. 5/5 on one minion is better than 4/4 + 2/2, imo. You can't look at the total stats of a token minion. It simply doesn't work that way. You can kill the Silver Hand Knight in pieces without actually losing anything if you have a 4/5 and a 2/3, for example. But you'd have to trade them for the 5/5. In this sense it plays more like a 4/6 than a 6/6. Further, to remove the 5 damage threat, you need to deal the full 5 damage, while you can reduce the damage of the token combo by killing either part. For the most part, the token is really inconsequential. You're not losing any sleep over leaving a 2/2 on the board, but if you have to leave a 5/1, you're a little more scared.

Token minions are good when your opponent's board is clear. It's hard to remove 2 things with just that much mana out of hand. Usually you'll at least have the token left, and if you can buff it, you're solid. But if there is anything on your opponent's board, they will often be able to find a favorable trade.

Yes Silver Hand Knight is still better than Warlord in the worst case, since it always at least gets the token, but it's never great, and Warlord can be. If you make it a 6/6 or a 7/7, even by playing multiple cards on a late turn, it can be a game-winner.  On my expensive cards, I'm willing to take that tradeoff. On later turns with more mana available you often have choices to play something else, so you're able to avoid the worst case a little more often than with the cheaper (2-4 mana) cards.
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nkirbit

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #70 on: July 08, 2014, 08:12:38 pm »
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I agree with HME.  Warlord is very, very good and Silver Hand Knight is simply good.  In fact, I'm surprised that he only seems to rate it just below a raptor... I think raptor is better than a silver hand knight by a decent margin.
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blueblimp

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #71 on: July 08, 2014, 08:42:44 pm »
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You don't need to make the Warlord a 6/6. 5/5 on one minion is better than 4/4 + 2/2, imo. You can't look at the total stats of a token minion. It simply doesn't work that way. You can kill the Silver Hand Knight in pieces without actually losing anything if you have a 4/5 and a 2/3, for example. But you'd have to trade them for the 5/5. In this sense it plays more like a 4/6 than a 6/6. Further, to remove the 5 damage threat, you need to deal the full 5 damage, while you can reduce the damage of the token combo by killing either part. For the most part, the token is really inconsequential. You're not losing any sleep over leaving a 2/2 on the board, but if you have to leave a 5/1, you're a little more scared.
I agree that 4/4+2/2 is worse overall than 6/6 (although sometimes it can be better), but I'm sure it's better than 5/5. For example, a 5/5 trades with yeti+ping, whereas 4/4+ping kills a yeti and leaves behind the 2/2 squire. Given the strength of ping classes in arena (rogue, mage), 1 health differences are not that important, but 2 health differences are big, so the 2/2 is awkward to kill unless you have a big minion available to smack it, in which case it absorbs some overkill (unless the big minion is a turtle).

Maybe I just overemphasize board clearing, but I really don't like to leave small minions on my opponent's board, because they help out dwarf, argus, warlord, etc. That's why I rate SHK highly, because it's awkward to clear it from the board. Maybe that's also why I don't think much of Frostwolf Warlord: if I'm keeping my opponent's board clear, then I'm not scared of it.
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Titandrake

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #72 on: July 09, 2014, 01:57:16 am »
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I have gotten lethal from Thoughtsteal 3 games in my current arena run.

1. Steal Windfury + Wolfrider. Use Windfury on my 7/7 Temple Enforcer (buffed by Argus), 14 + 2 from Argus + 3 from Wolfrider gives me exactly lethal.
2. Steal Doomguard, use it to beat a surprisingly good aggro Warlock deck. If I hadn't drawn my 1x Wild Pyro to clear the board, I would have lost.
3. Steal 2 Lightning Bolts. One gets used to clear, the second combines with a Holy Smite to do exactly lethal.

It's great. I don't have any AoE besides my Pyromancer, but have Argus, 3 Temple Enforcers, SSC, and mostly token minions/stealths as my neutrals, meaning I almost always have a buff target.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #73 on: July 09, 2014, 10:59:27 am »
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I agree that 4/4+2/2 is worse overall than 6/6 (although sometimes it can be better), but I'm sure it's better than 5/5.
SHK compares with 6/6 the way Dragonling Mechanic compares with Yeti. It doesn't. The same stats are way more valuable on a single minion because it can't be removed in pieces. The comparison to 5/5 is much closer. I can imagine a world in which 4/4+2/2 is better than 5/5, but in the current set of cards and metagame, 5/5 is the winner. The main reason is that there are way more things that deal 4 damage than 5. In fact, there are only 2-3 neutral commons that can kill a 5/5 and live (Ogre, War Golem, bigger Warlord). Additionally, a couple of the more powerful cards have exactly 5 health (Yeti, Sen'jin), so trading favorably with those is a big deal.

Quote
For example, a 5/5 trades with yeti+ping, whereas 4/4+ping kills a yeti and leaves behind the 2/2 squire. Given the strength of ping classes in arena (rogue, mage), 1 health differences are not that important, but 2 health differences are big, so the 2/2 is awkward to kill unless you have a big minion available to smack it, in which case it absorbs some overkill (unless the big minion is a turtle).
I think you're neglecting to consider the cost of the ping. If my Warlord trades with Yeti+ping, that's a win. Versus Mage, its a net gain of 1 mana (I spent 5 to his 6), vs Rogue it's about mana neutral but costs him 5 health, and vs Druid its +1 mana +4 life. And this is a below average outcome for the Warlord. If your opponent doesn't have a ping, you're getting greater value.
SHK + Mage ping vs Yeti is net -3 mana to get a 2/2. This is reasonably even. If the 2/2 sticks and gets buffed, it's a win, but if it just dies, it's a loss. And if you're not Mage, it's not even this good.
So I'd say overall, a 5/5 handles Yeti much better than SHK.

Quote
Maybe I just overemphasize board clearing, but I really don't like to leave small minions on my opponent's board, because they help out dwarf, argus, warlord, etc. That's why I rate SHK highly, because it's awkward to clear it from the board. Maybe that's also why I don't think much of Frostwolf Warlord: if I'm keeping my opponent's board clear, then I'm not scared of it.
If I have to choose between a 5-drop that helps maintain a board advantage from a good position and a 5-drop that can close out games from a good position, I'm going for the closer. You need some of those in arena. Your lower cost cards should be doing the job of establishing and maintaining board control.
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popsofctown

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #74 on: July 09, 2014, 11:45:23 am »
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Oh, you guys are talking about Flamestruck Hand Knight in here?
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KingZog3

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #75 on: July 09, 2014, 12:44:42 pm »
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Oh, you guys are talking about Flamestruck Hand Knight in here?

It's SHK vs warlord.
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blueblimp

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #76 on: July 09, 2014, 12:45:49 pm »
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SHK compares with 6/6 the way Dragonling Mechanic compares with Yeti. It doesn't.
I don't think this is a fair comparison, because the primary reason that Dragonling Mechanic is bad is that the 2/1 dies to ping, and the 2/4 left behind is not exciting on its own. Otherwise, while still not as good as Yeti, it'd be somewhere between a 4/4 and 4/5 in strength, I think: consider if the stats were distributed 2/3+2/2.

Quote
The same stats are way more valuable on a single minion because it can't be removed in pieces.
But isn't this mainly a problem because of ping? e.g. If the 2/2 eats a Frostbolt/Backstab, I am happy with that. SHK is in an unusual category because most of the other split minions have one (or both) parts as a x/1: Murloc Tidehunter, Razorfen Hunter, Dragonling Mechanic. (Razorfen Hunter is not as bad as the rest because at least ping is only killing a 1/1, which is OK.) On the other hand, Feral Spirit gives you 2/3+2/3 and is strong, which granted is largely because they come on turn 3, so it's not directly comparable.

Quote
The comparison to 5/5 is much closer. I can imagine a world in which 4/4+2/2 is better than 5/5, but in the current set of cards and metagame, 5/5 is the winner. The main reason is that there are way more things that deal 4 damage than 5. In fact, there are only 2-3 neutral commons that can kill a 5/5 and live (Ogre, War Golem, bigger Warlord). Additionally, a couple of the more powerful cards have exactly 5 health (Yeti, Sen'jin), so trading favorably with those is a big deal.
I'm with you that 5 health is a lot better than 4. That's why Ancient Brewmaster is so much worse than Yeti/Sen'jin. But a 2/2 is also way stronger than a 2/1.

Quote
I think you're neglecting to consider the cost of the ping. If my Warlord trades with Yeti+ping, that's a win. Versus Mage, its a net gain of 1 mana (I spent 5 to his 6), vs Rogue it's about mana neutral but costs him 5 health, and vs Druid its +1 mana +4 life. And this is a below average outcome for the Warlord. If your opponent doesn't have a ping, you're getting greater value.
SHK + Mage ping vs Yeti is net -3 mana to get a 2/2. This is reasonably even. If the 2/2 sticks and gets buffed, it's a win, but if it just dies, it's a loss. And if you're not Mage, it's not even this good.
So I'd say overall, a 5/5 handles Yeti much better than SHK.
3 mana to get a 2/2 without spending a card seems excellent to me. Imagine if the Paladin hero power were that instead of 2 mana for a 1/1... yikes. And this is vs Yeti, which is the best arena neutral common. The 2/2 may not always be useful, but it gives you options and board presence, which is always nice.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #77 on: July 09, 2014, 03:06:57 pm »
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SHK compares with 6/6 the way Dragonling Mechanic compares with Yeti. It doesn't.
I don't think this is a fair comparison, because the primary reason that Dragonling Mechanic is bad is that the 2/1 dies to ping, and the 2/4 left behind is not exciting on its own. Otherwise, while still not as good as Yeti, it'd be somewhere between a 4/4 and 4/5 in strength, I think: consider if the stats were distributed 2/3+2/2.
There are a lot of bad things about Mechanic, and ping is only one of them. Actually, if you force your opponent to ping the 2/1 on turn 4 instead of playing a 4-drop, that's not bad. You got a 2/4 for 2 mana and 1 card, which trades favorably with a 3/2. The problem occurs when your opponent plays a Yeti. Then your Mechanic just 0-for-1s.

Quote
Quote
The same stats are way more valuable on a single minion because it can't be removed in pieces.
But isn't this mainly a problem because of ping? e.g. If the 2/2 eats a Frostbolt/Backstab, I am happy with that. SHK is in an unusual category because most of the other split minions have one (or both) parts as a x/1: Murloc Tidehunter, Razorfen Hunter, Dragonling Mechanic. (Razorfen Hunter is not as bad as the rest because at least ping is only killing a 1/1, which is OK.) On the other hand, Feral Spirit gives you 2/3+2/3 and is strong, which granted is largely because they come on turn 3, so it's not directly comparable.
No, it's a problem because it can be removed by minions without killing them, and because the big part can be taken out leaving the small piece to be dealt with later. Even without a ping, a Yeti kills the 2/4, leaving 4/3 vs 2/1.

Any 4 damage removal (or worse yet a Yeti) + a 2/3 or better beats SHK. If you trade for 2 cards, you're happy, but a lot of times you just get 1 card and life gain (minion hits 2/2 instead of your face). Don't get me wrong, this is good, but it's not even close to what a 6/6 or 5/6 would do. Those things are real threats to just win the game if you can't produce 6 damage asap.

Razorfen benefits from the fact that hero power on turn 3 effectively costs 3 mana, and if you don't ping the boar, it trades with nearly any 3-drop. Feral Spirit is good because of the overload, not the stats. 4/6 taunt (DotC) is way better than Feral Spirit, even though you have to pay all the mana up front.

Quote
I'm with you that 5 health is a lot better than 4. That's why Ancient Brewmaster is so much worse than Yeti/Sen'jin. But a 2/2 is also way stronger than a 2/1.
Not sure what you're getting at. There are no 2/1s involved in this scenario. If you can only deal 4 damage, the 5/5 leaves a 5/1, which is much better than 2/1, and is better than a 2/2 if you don't have the spare mana or ability to ping it down.

Quote
3 mana to get a 2/2 without spending a card seems excellent to me. Imagine if the Paladin hero power were that instead of 2 mana for a 1/1... yikes. And this is vs Yeti, which is the best arena neutral common. The 2/2 may not always be useful, but it gives you options and board presence, which is always nice.
It's not "excellent". It's okay. If it were a hero power it would be excellent because then you could use it whenever you want. If it were a card, it would be decent, like halfway between Engineer and Inventor. But if it's a result of some exchange, it's less useful than as a card, because you don't get it at your convenience. The whole scenario depends on what your opponent is doing with the rest of the mana.
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blueblimp

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #78 on: July 09, 2014, 10:14:48 pm »
+1

There are a lot of bad things about Mechanic, and ping is only one of them. Actually, if you force your opponent to ping the 2/1 on turn 4 instead of playing a 4-drop, that's not bad. You got a 2/4 for 2 mana and 1 card, which trades favorably with a 3/2. The problem occurs when your opponent plays a Yeti. Then your Mechanic just 0-for-1s.
That's true, but the ping is not really forced, since they have the option of not pinging if they have some better play. If they happen to have an otherwise-bad hand, like say their only <=4 mana minion is a river croc, then they may be quite happy to have the ping option.

I agree that Yeti is a bad situation, but Yeti is the best arena neutral, so there are a lot of cards that have a rough time against it. This analysis is making me think that I might underrate Dragonling Mechanic.

We may just need to agree to disagree on the strength of SHK since I think the only way to resolve the question for sure is with a lot of statistics or even some A-B experiments. I'll keep an eye on my future games with SHK/FW to see which looks better in the situation.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #79 on: July 09, 2014, 11:33:33 pm »
+1

I'm happy to disagree. Having to make these arguments really helps me think about the cards, and having the discussion on the forum helps others think about it as well. That's why I kind of want to post my full list. I'm sure you'll find other things you disagree with. The tough things to value are 5 drops, 1 drops, tokens, taunt, silence, cantrips, and 2/3s.

One more comment about dragonling mechanic: it's usually fine on turn 4, only losing badly to a couple things, but it gets much worse later in the game. Razorfen hunter faces a similar issue, as does silver hand knight, to a somewhat lesser extent.
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blueblimp

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #80 on: July 10, 2014, 02:01:28 am »
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Got a lucky draft to go 11-3, and although I didn't have a SHK in my deck, I had it played against me 4 times, and except for the 2nd time (when I didn't think to do it), took a screenshot to analyze later.

1st time: With 7 mana, he played a Naturalize (score was 1-0) on my Baron Geddon and a SHK on an empty board. With only 4 other cards in hand, it's unlikely that he had another 5 mana minion option, so Warlord here would have been a 4/4, strictly worse. I have a Flamestrike in hand, but I'd rather not go 1-for-1 with Flamestrike, though here I use it because there's no better option. I have a Fireball, but no <=4 mana minion except a Faerie Dragon, which would get killed by his 2/2, allowing his SHK to go 2-for-1.



2nd time: Didn't get a screenshot. At the time, I recall thinking that SHK seemed slightly better than Warlord would have been, but I don't remember the situation, although I believe the Warlord would have been 5/5.

3rd time: He has a Violet Teacher out already and plays SHK on turn 5. I have a Flamestrike in hand, but with only 6 mana, I can't play it and am facing down a total of 9 damage from his board, and at 21 life, that's scary. A 5/5 Warlord would also have been good, threatening 8 damage, but then my Cobra would have been a less bad play (since in this situation he can kill it with 2/2+ping). On the other hand, I believe I went for a YOLO missiles play which hit his face once, the teacher once, and the 2/2 once, so I cleared the teacher and 2/2 with bluegill and fireblast. Certainly warlord would have been less susceptible to the missile play, so it may have an edge here.



4th time: He plays SHK on turn 5 with his board empty. Playing SHK is strictly better than Warlord here, although he had enough other cards that he may have been able to hold back Warlord and make some other play. I have a decent response, killing the 2/2 with my Kodo, pinging his knight, and playing cobra, expecting that if something goes horribly wrong then I can Flamestrike next turn. Without the 2/2 present, though, I would be able to clear his board and put down a cobra.

« Last Edit: July 10, 2014, 02:02:32 am by blueblimp »
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ycz6

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #81 on: July 10, 2014, 02:43:34 am »
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So I play Noble Sacrifice on turn 1.

My opponent responds with Wisp + Dust Devil. Who does that??

And then the next turn he attacks with the Dust Devil first.

And then I somehow lost the game anyway.
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blueblimp

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #82 on: July 10, 2014, 03:31:57 am »
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For what it's worth, Noble Sacrifice is rarely a good turn 1 play. You typically want to save it until you can play it in a way that protects an important minion or is likely to trade with something having 2 health. If you play it on turn 1, there are too many ways that your opponent can trigger it without losing anything important. For example, since you were up against a Shaman, if he summons a totem and it's a Searing Totem, then when he attacks with the totem next turn, it'll trade with the Defender without any need to spend a card, and at just 1 mana more (since the totem cost 2 mana and the secret cost 1).
« Last Edit: July 10, 2014, 03:34:31 am by blueblimp »
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theory

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #83 on: July 10, 2014, 09:50:54 am »
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Bah, I really thought this deck was gonna take me to 12 wins: http://www.twitch.tv/10b5/b/546128510

Played six Druids and lost to three of them.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #84 on: July 10, 2014, 10:52:45 am »
+1

<examples of SHK being played>

The thing you have to watch out with with this, is that if you only look at situations where SHK is being played, it's going to be biased towards it being good.
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blueblimp

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #85 on: July 10, 2014, 02:04:47 pm »
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<examples of SHK being played>

The thing you have to watch out with with this, is that if you only look at situations where SHK is being played, it's going to be biased towards it being good.
Good point. It'd be better to wait until I get SHK in a draft and see whether I'm happier drawing it than Warlord. (Kinda obvious maybe.)
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blueblimp

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #86 on: July 10, 2014, 02:10:36 pm »
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Bah, I really thought this deck was gonna take me to 12 wins: http://www.twitch.tv/10b5/b/546128510

Played six Druids and lost to three of them.
Yeah, what's with all the Druids in arena recently? Statistically it's mediocre (http://hearthstats.net/june) and I don't like it much because of low amounts of good common removal compared to Mage and Rogue. I understand the popularity in constructed since there at least it's among the best classes.
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KingZog3

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #87 on: July 10, 2014, 03:38:01 pm »
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Bah, I really thought this deck was gonna take me to 12 wins: http://www.twitch.tv/10b5/b/546128510

Played six Druids and lost to three of them.
Yeah, what's with all the Druids in arena recently? Statistically it's mediocre (http://hearthstats.net/june) and I don't like it much because of low amounts of good common removal compared to Mage and Rogue. I understand the popularity in constructed since there at least it's among the best classes.

I'm not sure, some of my best runs have been with Druid. There are good common minions, like Druid of the claw, which is why I think its popular.
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theory

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #88 on: July 10, 2014, 04:52:27 pm »
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I think Druid is very strong in Arena, but lacks a little bit of the roflstomp madness that an amazing Mage/Rogue deck can pull off.  I rarely do poorly with Druid but also don't get double-digit wins.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #89 on: July 10, 2014, 04:56:31 pm »
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I posted something about arena Druid in the other thread

I think Druid is pretty good in arena. The big thing for me is that the average card quality is higher than with any other class, because there's very few bad Druid cards. You less often have to take Murloc Raider because your other choices were Repentance and Eye for and Eye, or Doomsayer because the other choices were Ice Block and Spellbender, etc.

I think all of the classes besides Hunter, Warlock, and Priest are pretty close in terms of how good they are in arena, and it comes down more to what you're more comfortable with.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #90 on: July 10, 2014, 05:06:57 pm »
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I think Druid is very strong in Arena, but lacks a little bit of the roflstomp madness that an amazing Mage/Rogue deck can pull off.  I rarely do poorly with Druid but also don't get double-digit wins.

The most roflstompy Druid deck that I've had is:
0 - 2x innervate
1 - naturalize, leper
2 - 2x wrath, ooze, juggler, croc, young panda
3 - raging worgen, crusader, 2x cleric
4 - swipe, defender, 2x inventor, keeper, ogre magi, senjin, spellbreaker, knight
5 - 2x dotc, venture co
6 - starfire, commander, frost
7 -
8 - ironbark

If I can Innervate out one of the 5-drops and protect it with Wraths, Swipe, Naturalize, or Cleric buffs, I can get in for a ton of damage and then use the chargers/Starfire for reach or protect the board with Frost/Ironbark. And even if I don't draw the Innervates early, the whole deck is solid, with the only bad card being the Leper Gnome. This deck went 12 wins pretty easily.
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mpsprs

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #91 on: July 10, 2014, 06:30:59 pm »
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Just finished up my most recent arena: http://arenamastery.com/ELP6

When I drafted it, I thought it would be a disaster.  I was offered very few 2-drops, and not many hugely powerful minions either.  Somehow I squeezed 7 wins out of it though.  I decided to test out streaming/recording for the last four games (2-2).  I'd love any feedback if you have the time/energy/whatever.  Alas, my connection seemed to reset a few times during the broadcast, so the video is split into 5 parts with 6 second breaks between each piece.  You can find them all at my twitch page: http://www.twitch.tv/mpsprs/

As to the recent topics:  I also saw a bunch of druids.  Four in 10 games, lost to two. 

Frost Wolf Warlord vs. SHK:  I had FWW.  With this deck, I'd have preferred SHK, since I had so few cheap minions.  My recollection from the unrecorded games is that this held true: FWW got played as a 4-4 multiple times (and the sun cleric as an expensive 3-2 regularly as well).  It did have it's moment though in a later game.  Then in my last, facing what I guessed was mirror entity, I'd have preferred SHK again (though it turned out not to matter).  I guess I'd say that if it was reasonably close in this deck, FWW is probably my preferred choice.

Edit:  And the pack at the end gave me my second legendary!  You are reading the post of the proud owner of Millhouse Manastorm!!!
« Last Edit: July 10, 2014, 06:33:04 pm by mpsprs »
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nkirbit

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #92 on: July 13, 2014, 10:57:59 pm »
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http://imgur.com/3nMPYbi

I always get frustrated when I face hunter combos.. either they don't have it and the decks or bad, and they do and they're unbeatable.  I thought I'd have a try playing a constructed deck in arena.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #93 on: July 14, 2014, 02:15:39 am »
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Looks pretty solid.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #94 on: July 14, 2014, 08:33:52 am »
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Looks great! Although FOUR UTH and Buzzards might be too much (with only one Timber wolf)

Shaman Run with a beautiful curve imo:
1: Forked Lightning and Lightning Bolt
2: Axe, Windfury, Ooze, Berserker, Flametongue, Owl, Loot Hoarder, 2x Mad Bomber, Pyromancer
3: Hex, Acolyte of Pain, Worgen, 2x Raid Leader, Unbound Elemental
4: 2x Yeti, Cult master, Dark Iron Dwarf, Spell Breaker
5: Doomhammer, Earth Elemental, Frostwolf Warlord (definitely better in shaman deck)
6: Ogre, 2x Elemental
10: Deathwing
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #95 on: July 14, 2014, 09:27:51 am »
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I just had two shaman runs. Both went to six wins. This deck looks like my second deck. I got storm wind champion I. Both decks though, which really good for shaman in arena.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #96 on: July 14, 2014, 11:36:09 am »
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http://imgur.com/3nMPYbi

I'd be very interested to see how this turns out.

Shaman Run with a beautiful curve imo:
Only problem I see is at the 3 spot. Raid leader is a really weak 3-drop, and you typically don't want to play acolyte or hex on turn 3. But having four 3/2s help in this department, since they are viable turn 3 plays.
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nkirbit

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #97 on: July 14, 2014, 05:44:05 pm »
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http://imgur.com/3nMPYbi

I'd be very interested to see how this turns out.

I went 4-3.  One of the losses was exactly what I expected to have happen in my losses:  I didn't draw enough relevant cards early, my opponent did a good job of playing around unleash, and I just didn't have enough to come back.

One loss was extremely, extremely flukey.  I was on the play and actually had a good curve.  Turn 2 crocolisk, turn 3 animal companion, turn 4 houndmaster, turn 5 houndmaster.  However, my opponents play were:  turn 4 innervate Black Knight, turn 5 coin black knight.  It was still a close game after that, but getting double black knighted is brutal.

I also lost to a druid who played 4 swipes.  Swipes are good against hunter.

I probably could've drafted it better.  I passed up good 2 drops for cards like Unleash, Hunters mark, when I really should've taken the 2 drops... but making the best deck wasn't really the goal here, I went all out for the combos after I saw leeroy.. don't regret making that choice even if I potentially gave up a few wins.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #98 on: July 15, 2014, 02:34:06 am »
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One of the sillier drafts I've gotten. Get your predictions in, folks.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #99 on: July 15, 2014, 07:32:14 am »
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One of the sillier drafts I've gotten. Get your predictions in, folks.

If that doesn't go 12 wins, I don't know what should.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #100 on: July 15, 2014, 09:50:25 am »
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I'm drafting my first Hunter Arena.  Come laugh at my choices!

www.twitch.tv/shraeye
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #101 on: July 15, 2014, 12:09:07 pm »
+1

One of the sillier drafts I've gotten. Get your predictions in, folks.
Only multi-target removal is Forked Lightning, and no area removal. Only 4 single-target removal options before Fire Elemental (Earth Shock, Lightning Bolt, Stormforged Axe, Stormwind Knight). Several cards that are only good when already having minions on the board (Flametongue Totem, SSC, Argus, Frostwolf Warlord; and to a much lesser degree, Dwarf and Darkscale Healer). No convincing big vanilla card like Yeti, Sen'jin, Ogre. I think this deck will have a very tough time if it can't get board control early, because it doesn't have tools to retake it.

It does seem likely to get out of control fast if it does hold on to board control.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #102 on: July 15, 2014, 12:32:13 pm »
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Yeah, I was kinda disappointed I didn't get a single Lightning storm in my draft. That 1x Forked Lightning is the only non-single target removal I got.

I don't remember the draft that well, but I do remember taking Unbound > Sen'jin around 15 cards in with Stormforged as only overload, and Darkscale > Stormpike Commando early on. Not so sure about the previous in retrospect, my logic was that Unbound + Overload card gets you a 3/5 but I wasn't thinking about the overload cost next turn and you have to draw an overload card to make it work.

This deck is probably going to live/die on whether the 2 drops and 3 drops live, haven't played it yet. In any case, getting 2 Rags is hilarious no matter what.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #103 on: July 15, 2014, 03:13:34 pm »
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One of the sillier drafts I've gotten. Get your predictions in, folks.
Only multi-target removal is Forked Lightning, and no area removal. Only 4 single-target removal options before Fire Elemental (Earth Shock, Lightning Bolt, Stormforged Axe, Stormwind Knight). Several cards that are only good when already having minions on the board (Flametongue Totem, SSC, Argus, Frostwolf Warlord; and to a much lesser degree, Dwarf and Darkscale Healer). No convincing big vanilla card like Yeti, Sen'jin, Ogre. I think this deck will have a very tough time if it can't get board control early, because it doesn't have tools to retake it.

It does seem likely to get out of control fast if it does hold on to board control.

Axe is multi-target over a few turns. It's definitely something that helps with board control. A second Lightning Bolt or Rockbiter would be nice, but there's so many 2-drops that it shouldn't be hard to just keep slamming down minions. It's okay to let hand size get lowish because your top end is big cards (2x Fire, 2x Rag).

The worst card in the deck is Thrallmar. TBH, I didn't even recognize it in the image. Harpy is also pretty bad, but other than that, the card quality looks really good. I'd be happy with this draft and would predict 7-9 wins.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #104 on: July 15, 2014, 04:35:22 pm »
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I don't think deck quality is a good predictor of win count, by itself. Time of day seems important too. Also luck of what you're matched against in early games, which is influenced by time of day.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #105 on: July 15, 2014, 04:44:44 pm »
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I'm beginning to suspect this is true.  I have a small sample size, but I've always done better in mid-day drafts than 7am drafts...maybe the more casual players aren't playing at all hours of the day?
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #106 on: July 15, 2014, 06:05:36 pm »
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That is also true for constructed. And pretty much any online game.
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theory

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #107 on: July 15, 2014, 06:16:14 pm »
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I have theorized that Arena is much easier at the start of the month when all the hardcores are grinding ladder, and harder at the end of the month when the hardcores have made legendary and are just waiting for next season.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #108 on: July 15, 2014, 08:09:46 pm »
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I do think time of day matters a lot for arena. In the evening I seem to face more mages than any other time of day.
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Titandrake

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #109 on: July 15, 2014, 11:22:57 pm »
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Arena mastery has some stats on this, although it seems like the time of day stats are down. They're at the bottom of the page.

http://www.arenamastery.com/sitewide.php
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #110 on: July 15, 2014, 11:35:07 pm »
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Went 4-3 with this:

http://arenamastery.com/LUwt

I think it should have done better... but it was missing taunts (except Sunwalker), removal, and silence...
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #111 on: July 16, 2014, 12:08:47 am »
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Oh god my heart. It's only 4 games in and I've almost lost 2.

Game 2: I have very easy lethal next turn. Fire Elemental, Windfury Harpy, Flametongue, Knife Juggler, Healing Totem, Rag, against a board of various weak things. Then my opponent plays MC Tech, Panda bounce, MC tech, and steals Windfury and Rag, and Rag kills Knife Juggler.

So now I'm facing lethal with no way to kill. I hit for face, get opponent down to 4. I have a Bolt and Mad Bomber in hand. Mad Bomber doesn't hit my opponent, but I get the 1/3 chance Spell Power totem for the win.

Game 4: Very aggressive warlock, was basically a Zoo deck. Argent Squire, SSC, 2 Knife Jugglers, Scarlet Crusader, Arcane Golem, 2 Injured Blademasters...I get down to 1 life before I stabilize behind a Argused Fire Elemental and DID. For 4 turns, he can't draw into any direct damage, I keep his board clear, and my taunts live just long enough for me to win.

Edit: Get opponent down to 10 life. Opponent plays 2nd Flamestrike of the day, pings the last guy on my side...then drops 2 Molten Giants. I win thanks to perfect taunt totem RNG but I made a misplay that should have costed me the game.

Edit 2: Ended 9-3. Don't remember my first loss, I think my life got too low. 2nd loss, he held onto Flamestrike longer than I thought he would and I overextended. 3rd loss, I'm behind in life but have the board mostly clear, and then Onyxia happens. Followed by Deathwing with me at 1 life just to BM. Around then was when I realized I had no Hexes in my draft. Ah well, got some ridiculously clutch wins out of it from Rag + MC Tech RNG. And I got my first Leper Gnome! It's about time, last common I didn't have.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 01:41:46 am by Titandrake »
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #112 on: July 16, 2014, 08:04:44 am »
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Nice on the Leper Gnome. Was the very first card common I got in a pack.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #113 on: July 17, 2014, 07:57:55 pm »
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So I drafted a Demon-based Warlock deck:

1x Sacrificial Pact
2x Mortal Coil
1x Abusive Sergeant
1x Flame Imp
2x Voidwalker

2x Demonfire
1x Razorfen Hunter
2x Bloodfen Raptor
1x Dire Wolf Alpha
1x Knife Juggler
1x Mad Bomber

1x Sense Demons
1x Earthen Ring Farseer
1x Felguard
1x Scarlet Crusader

1x Summoning Portal
1x Scarlet Crusader
1x Chillwind Yeti
1x Pit Lord
1x Sen'jin Shieldmasta
1x Silvermoon Guardian

1x Faceless Manipulator

2x Dread Infernal
2x Argent Commander


Any guesses as to how it did?
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #114 on: July 21, 2014, 02:31:50 am »
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Decided to try out this Arena Mastery thing. Here's my draft: http://arenamastery.com/BuYg

My strangest picks were probably Acolyte of Pain > Sen'jin and Holy Wrath > Azure Drake, which were both because of my curve. Not that I think the latter was actually correct, but it seemed like fun at the time, when I had like 15 4-costs and 6 of everything else.
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nkirbit

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #115 on: July 21, 2014, 02:38:41 am »
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I would've definitely taken Fen Creeper over Guardian of Kings, Humility over Blessing of Might, Azure drake over Holy Wrath.

I'm unsure if I start off with Defender or Drake.. both are extremely, extremely good.  I may lean drake just because paladin tends to get clogged up with lots of 4 drops.

The deck looks very good.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #116 on: July 21, 2014, 11:01:08 am »
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Argus is strong card, but Drake has the advantage that it's good in every situation. Need a big body? It's pretty big by arena standards. Need card draw? It'll do that. Having spell damage too just makes it bonkers.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #117 on: July 21, 2014, 03:56:56 pm »
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6-2 so far. I am feeling the lack of Consecration.

This Holy Wrath has not let me down yet, though! My opponent had 8 health on turn 9, I Holy Wrathed his face and drew a Truesilver Champion. Clutch.

One of the games I lost, I had an Amani out on turn 2, my opponent played a Mad Bomber and it killed the Amani. I was kinda pissed.

Edit: 7-2, Just killed my opponent via Dark Iron Dwarf + Blessing of Might on Questing Adventurer to put it to 12/7, plus 4/4 Spiteful Smith plus 6/1 Truesilver Champion for exactly 22 damage lethal.

Edit 2: Ended up 9-3. Not the best, but not bad for a deck with no Consecrations.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2014, 04:31:16 pm by ycz6 »
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #118 on: July 21, 2014, 05:09:41 pm »
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I did another one: http://arenamastery.com/VBOr

Pretty much just followed the tier list since I'm not too experienced with Rogue. Blade Flurry as my last pick goes against the list but I think is pretty obvious in my deck.

3-0 so far, have had board control pretty much the entire time
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #119 on: July 21, 2014, 09:35:06 pm »
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Whoa! I just finished a warrior arena.  I went 3-1 with this deck, and was feeling pretty good about myself.  Then I lost and was feeling terrible, like a nice run was about to be cut off at the 3-4 level that I just COULDN'T ever get past.  Then, I miraculously won 5 in a row and ended 8-3!!  I know y'all have done better, but I'm ultra excited to have set a new benchmark!

http://arenamastery.com/LRMF


Also, Rampage/Imp Master is a bitchin' combo.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 06:24:30 am by shraeye »
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #120 on: July 21, 2014, 11:17:58 pm »
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link not working.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #121 on: July 25, 2014, 11:27:57 pm »
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So I tried drafting poison seeds, because the pack was weak and I was curious about it. It was absolutely terrible. I never wanted to play it, it sat in my hand useless every game I drew it. I played it once, and at best it was not horrible.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #122 on: July 25, 2014, 11:34:43 pm »
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So I tried drafting poison seeds, because the pack was weak and I was curious about it. It was absolutely terrible. I never wanted to play it, it sat in my hand useless every game I drew it. I played it once, and at best it was not horrible.

Pops test a poison seeds deck on me. His conclusion, and mine, was that it's gimmicky. Like inner fire, it can work well wen it hits, but it doesn't actually give you board control.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #123 on: July 26, 2014, 04:01:06 am »
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So I tried drafting poison seeds, because the pack was weak and I was curious about it. It was absolutely terrible. I never wanted to play it, it sat in my hand useless every game I drew it. I played it once, and at best it was not horrible.

Pops test a poison seeds deck on me. His conclusion, and mine, was that it's gimmicky. Like inner fire, it can work well wen it hits, but it doesn't actually give you board control.

The trick, I think, is death rattles that matter.  Seeds + Egg is clearly meant to be.  Golem, too.  Stuff like that.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #124 on: July 26, 2014, 09:01:37 am »
0

So I tried drafting poison seeds, because the pack was weak and I was curious about it. It was absolutely terrible. I never wanted to play it, it sat in my hand useless every game I drew it. I played it once, and at best it was not horrible.

Pops test a poison seeds deck on me. His conclusion, and mine, was that it's gimmicky. Like inner fire, it can work well wen it hits, but it doesn't actually give you board control.

The trick, I think, is death rattles that matter.  Seeds + Egg is clearly meant to be.  Golem, too.  Stuff like that.

Seeds plus Egg is... a 6 mana Silver Hand Knight.  Obviously if you can get more death rattles out it gets better, but if your opponent has death rattles or tokens it gets much worse.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #125 on: July 26, 2014, 04:47:27 pm »
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Anyone know up-to-date and accurate probabilities and algorithm for the cards you get to pick from in arena drafting? The best I could find is this post, but it's from February and the numbers are pretty vague.

Alternatively, if I had a ton of draft data available, it would be pretty easy to reverse engineer approximate probabilities. But I don't track my drafts.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2014, 06:02:12 pm by blueblimp »
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #126 on: July 27, 2014, 05:48:57 pm »
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Going to try out another full streamed arena run at http://www.twitch.tv/titandrake. I'll edit the VOD after it's done.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #127 on: July 27, 2014, 05:57:44 pm »
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Just played a really weird endgame in a Shaman vs Warlock arena match at 7 wins.

On turn 8, I'm down something like 20 health to 6, but he has no minions and almost no hand and I have a couple minions out. My hand is Alexstrasza, Unbound Elemental, Lava Burst, Stormforged Axe.

On turn 8, he plays some crappy minions. I play my Unbound and Stormforged Axe to kill them, but this puts me at 4 health, and with only 8 mana to spend next turn.

On turn 9, he plays Ysera. I manage to kill it while retaining board control and bringing him down to 11 health (thank you based Flametongue Totem), but I have to use my Lava Burst, which again leaves me with 8 mana next turn. I also played another Unbound on this turn.

On turn 10, he plays a few minions and then uses Nightmare on his Sen'jin. I can't get through it without losing my entire board, and I can't play Alexstrasza, so I play Defender of Argus, giving me two huge Unbound Elementals, and pass.

On turn 11, his Sen'jin dies to Nightmare. He topdecks Azure Drake, which draws him a Hellfire, so he wins.

I cried.
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ycz6

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #128 on: July 27, 2014, 06:35:59 pm »
0

http://arenamastery.com/VqGv

It's turn 3 of game 1 and both my Pyroblasts are in my hand

Shame I didn't take Ice Block when I had the chance

Edit: Turn 8 Cone of Cold -> Turn 9 Cone of Cold -> Opponent concedes
« Last Edit: July 27, 2014, 06:39:46 pm by ycz6 »
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ycz6

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #129 on: July 27, 2014, 07:20:39 pm »
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ffff I'm an idiot

It was turn 9 and I had a Pyroblast in hand, so I played Fireball + Frostbolt + ping to bring my opponent down to 10 health

But then he played Darkscale Healer... and I lost like 6 turns later.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #130 on: July 27, 2014, 07:53:31 pm »
+1

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #131 on: July 27, 2014, 09:06:30 pm »
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Well, that run was godly.

http://www.twitch.tv/titandrake/b/551885761

Really, really nice draft. Solid creatures, good board clear, had the option of doing lots of damage from the hand...probably could have been 12 wins if I had played it better. Unfortunately, it was not to be.

The above run is pretty long, so I'm highlighting this game in particular. http://www.twitch.tv/titandrake/c/4760969
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ycz6

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #132 on: July 29, 2014, 03:00:32 pm »
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So I'm at 9-0 with this deck: http://arenamastery.com/73hA

I thought it was good, but not THAT good - three Fire Elementals is good, obviously, but only one Hex, only one Axe, and no cards with the word "Lightning."

I've ended up winning a lot of games by bursting down my opponent from 15+ health; twice with Bloodlust, and three times with Flametongue + Windspeaker on one of my big bodies (Fire Ele, Frostwolf Warlord). The Nerubian Egg has found some use, too. Mostly with Flametongue Totem, and it soaked up a Holy Nova once.



Edit: 11-3 :( I hate Flamestrike
« Last Edit: July 29, 2014, 04:18:14 pm by ycz6 »
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theory

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #133 on: July 29, 2014, 06:25:21 pm »
+1

Anyone know up-to-date and accurate probabilities and algorithm for the cards you get to pick from in arena drafting? The best I could find is this post, but it's from February and the numbers are pretty vague.

Alternatively, if I had a ton of draft data available, it would be pretty easy to reverse engineer approximate probabilities. But I don't track my drafts.
There's this but I don't know how reliable it is: http://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveHS/comments/2aquyq/hypothesis_arena_card_generation/
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Grujah

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #134 on: August 02, 2014, 04:43:57 pm »
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Shaman, P1P1:

Big Game Hunter, Sea Giant, Doomhammer?
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #135 on: August 02, 2014, 05:44:44 pm »
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I think Sea Giant is #1 Epic in arena for Shaman. Earth Elemental is close, then Doomhammer, then BGH.
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Grujah

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #136 on: August 02, 2014, 05:53:20 pm »
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Went for Sea Giant already.
Going 5-0 so far, haven't seen Sea Giant once I think :P Bloodlust, however..

Had the weirdest game, tho.
vs Mage.
T1: Mirror Image
T2: ShieldBearer
T3. Draw 2.
T4: +8 armor secret.
T5: Ping a 2/1, Vaporize
T6: I THINK Draw 2 again, 2/3 guy.. or ping.. something weird anyway.

It seemed to me that the whole day is "try to survive, draw multiple flamestrikes, and win randomly".
I've just played Flamestrike surviving guys (tho he didn't ACTUALLY play any flamestrike) and it was easy-peasy, as expected.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #137 on: August 04, 2014, 11:47:50 am »
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Just had a surprisingly good run with this priest: http://arenamastery.com/xky1
I didn't think it would do very good due to the lack of 2-drops, but got to 10 wins anyway.
Playing priest is just so fun sometimes, they have really cool cards that make for such interesting play decisions. Also, Flamestriking Mages is just about the most satisfying thing to do.
The last game was definitely remarkable as well: I played against a Miracle Rogue. He played Gadgetzan, Backstabed my Minion, Deadly Poisoned, and on the next turn sapped the minion i played to kill his Gadgetzan.
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theory

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #138 on: August 05, 2014, 04:31:33 pm »
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I came back and won this game even after this stroke of bad luck:

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #139 on: August 05, 2014, 04:44:04 pm »
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Trade whelp for hoarder, sw: death the dragon, trade 3 whelks for mc tech, drop ogre?
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theory

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #140 on: August 05, 2014, 04:44:37 pm »
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Correct.  Having that SW:D saved me from lethal since he had a Fireball in his hand.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #141 on: August 05, 2014, 11:04:03 pm »
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OK ok ok ok, Here's my deck so far:
http://www.arenamastery.com/draft.php?arena=324133 ( don't know if that works while I'm still drafting it)

and I have a legendary for my last pick.  Which one: Malygos, Ysera, or Gruul?

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #142 on: August 05, 2014, 11:24:53 pm »
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OK ok ok ok, Here's my deck so far:
http://www.arenamastery.com/draft.php?arena=324133 ( don't know if that works while I'm still drafting it)

and I have a legendary for my last pick.  Which one: Malygos, Ysera, or Gruul?

Doesn't work. What class? I'd go with ysera, since Gruul and Malygos are not great normally.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #143 on: August 06, 2014, 12:26:11 am »
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Definitely Ysera, just coming from a noob perspective.  She has destroyed me so many times, and without even needing to use the 4 attack...
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #144 on: August 06, 2014, 06:47:11 am »
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OK ok ok ok, Here's my deck so far:
http://www.arenamastery.com/draft.php?arena=324133 ( don't know if that works while I'm still drafting it)

and I have a legendary for my last pick.  Which one: Malygos, Ysera, or Gruul?

Doesn't work. What class? I'd go with ysera, since Gruul and Malygos are not great normally.
Rogue. If I had known how many spells I would see and also get malygos, I could have done something cool. But oh well. I cab post the whole deck later

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #145 on: August 06, 2014, 04:42:20 pm »
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I chose Ysera.  Here's the final draft
http://arenamastery.com/6kuh

I think it might be OK, but the curve feels a little high to me. 

theory

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #146 on: August 06, 2014, 04:44:46 pm »
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oh man that pick 14

I'm slightly concerned about your relative lack of 3/2's on Turn 2; that might lead to you getting blown out in a few games if you have bad mulligan luck.
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nkirbit

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #147 on: August 06, 2014, 04:50:52 pm »
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3 backstabs certainly make malygos better.. I'm not sure what'd I'd pick knowing that
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #148 on: August 06, 2014, 04:52:22 pm »
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oh man that pick 14

I'm slightly concerned about your relative lack of 3/2's on Turn 2; that might lead to you getting blown out in a few games if you have bad mulligan luck.
yeah, I really didn't know what to pick there.  I figured minion was the best.

3 backstabs certainly make malygos better.. I'm not sure what'd I'd pick knowing that
right.  I only had 4 spells in total though...
And I tend to use backstabs pretty early

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #149 on: August 06, 2014, 05:45:10 pm »
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Ughhhh... I lost my last game because I'm stupid.  I forgot backstab doesn't hit damaged minions.  He had 2 health, a 1/1 token with taunt and a 3/1 wild pyromancer w/ taunt.  And I knifed the token then couldn't backstab the pyromancer... and i had a 3/1 on the board.  ugh.  always remember slow play

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #150 on: August 06, 2014, 08:55:30 pm »
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I've just played T1 Coin -> Nothing, instead of T1 Northshire, T2 Coin -> Dancing Swords, by mistake. :(
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #151 on: August 06, 2014, 09:07:53 pm »
+1

Well, at least you din't give your opponent a card.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #152 on: August 06, 2014, 10:07:31 pm »
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oh man that pick 14

I'm slightly concerned about your relative lack of 3/2's on Turn 2; that might lead to you getting blown out in a few games if you have bad mulligan luck.
yeah, I really didn't know what to pick there.  I figured minion was the best.

14 is Tidehunter no question. If your opponent doesn't have a way to kill the 2/1 (e.g. Mage/Rogue/Druid hero power), it trades evenly with another 2-drop. Wisp and Sinister will never do something like that.

The lack of 2-drops isn't as bad with all the cheap removal. You may miss an opportunity to get ahead on the board, but you're not going to straight up die.
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ycz6

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #153 on: August 08, 2014, 10:53:24 pm »
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Brought a Mage down to 1 health as a Druid. They dropped Ice Barrier, Molten Giant, Sunfury Protector, and Cone of Cold, and killed me the next turn, spamming "My magic will tear you apart!" the whole time.

It was rough.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 10:54:31 pm by ycz6 »
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Titandrake

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #154 on: August 10, 2014, 03:26:04 am »
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Played against a Warrior that used Brawl, killed 6 of my minions with Gorehowl charges, had two Ogres and a Molten Giant...and I still ended up a card ahead by the time we went to fatigue, having killed all of his outs.

At one point, I had 12 health, he had 30 health + 10 armor, and I was down to 1 card in hand vs 4...and still won. Completely ridiculous value grind to get back in it.
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Grujah

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #155 on: August 10, 2014, 07:18:45 am »
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I recently won an Arena game cuz of Thoughtsteal information.
We were both low on cards and near Topdeck mode, and I knew that he has Execute and Cleave as removals in his last few cards. So all I had to do is maintain a board with 1 healthy minion on my own, and he has two dead cards. Turned out those were his last two, I think. And if I had dropped my Loot Hoarder that would let him kill that guy and Lightspawn and probably win on fatigue, fortunately I knew exactly what he had in hand :P

Felt so awesome :P
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #156 on: August 10, 2014, 06:10:40 pm »
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I recently won an Arena game cuz of Thoughtsteal information.
We were both low on cards and near Topdeck mode, and I knew that he has Execute and Cleave as removals in his last few cards. So all I had to do is maintain a board with 1 healthy minion on my own, and he has two dead cards. Turned out those were his last two, I think. And if I had dropped my Loot Hoarder that would let him kill that guy and Lightspawn and probably win on fatigue, fortunately I knew exactly what he had in hand :P

Felt so awesome :P
I'm sure this has been discussed in a MtG context somewhere before, but I wonder if the game would be better or worse if the complete decklist were public information.
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Grujah

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #157 on: August 10, 2014, 06:35:09 pm »
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Worse.
MTG does it only when it has to, like when some players are compromised on big, 2-3 days tournments, cuz some players are at disadvantage if their deck got featured (esp the deck tech) and now everybody got access to it.


In other news,
WTF IS WITH THESE COMMONS AS ARENA AWARDS?
It's as they are giving me 5 dust. It is insulting. I had lke 10, 8, 5, and 3 arena today, EACH time I got a common (one gold, though, but not that it matters).
It... UGH. So frustrating.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #158 on: August 10, 2014, 07:06:47 pm »
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Worse.
MTG does it only when it has to, like when some players are compromised on big, 2-3 days tournments, cuz some players are at disadvantage if their deck got featured (esp the deck tech) and now everybody got access to it.
But *why* is it worse? Is so much of the intrigue of the game based on surprising your opponents?

Quote
In other news,
WTF IS WITH THESE COMMONS AS ARENA AWARDS?
It's as they are giving me 5 dust. It is insulting. I had lke 10, 8, 5, and 3 arena today, EACH time I got a common (one gold, though, but not that it matters).
It... UGH. So frustrating.
100% agree. Except gold commons are fine. They are worth a reasonable amount of dust. I think 50. Non-gold commons were semi-reasonable for 0-2 wins back when it was 5 boxes no matter how many wins you got, because you have to give some bad stuff, but now it's so much worse than anything you can get. I've gotten a non-gold common on a 12 win run, which is just ridiculous compared to the contents of the other boxes.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #159 on: August 10, 2014, 07:22:42 pm »
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Worse.
MTG does it only when it has to, like when some players are compromised on big, 2-3 days tournments, cuz some players are at disadvantage if their deck got featured (esp the deck tech) and now everybody got access to it.
But *why* is it worse? Is so much of the intrigue of the game based on surprising your opponents?

I don't see what revealing decklists bring. It's like revealing hands.
You need to consider your plays and predict future plays with much more uncertainty, which means experience and knowing the meta/game and and exact netdecklists as well those more unusual builds/cards some use is more meaningful. And I think that is good and skillful, as that is/should be the part of the game.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #160 on: August 10, 2014, 07:42:32 pm »
+2

I don't see what revealing decklists bring. It's like revealing hands.
It increases the importance of calculation, especially in control-control matchups. In general, having more information makes calculation more valuable and guessing less valuable. Take Chess as an extreme example: you have all the information, so there's no guessing and a lot of calculation. I don't think having more calculation is necessarily better or worse, it's just different, and the sweet spot of how much is best will vary for different people.
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markusin

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #161 on: August 10, 2014, 08:54:42 pm »
0

Worse.
MTG does it only when it has to, like when some players are compromised on big, 2-3 days tournments, cuz some players are at disadvantage if their deck got featured (esp the deck tech) and now everybody got access to it.
But *why* is it worse? Is so much of the intrigue of the game based on surprising your opponents?

I don't see what revealing decklists bring. It's like revealing hands.
You need to consider your plays and predict future plays with much more uncertainty, which means experience and knowing the meta/game and and exact netdecklists as well those more unusual builds/cards some use is more meaningful. And I think that is good and skillful, as that is/should be the part of the game.
I don't know much at all about MtG, but I'm guessing knowing the full decklist would make unpopular, situational cards even more unpopular. Can't think of any good examples of Hearthstone cards that would become even more unplayable than they are now. Anyway, revealing the decklist really ruins secrets too, should you decide to only run a couple for support.

Edit: Unless you hide the secrets, only showing how many the the player has.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2014, 12:22:53 am by markusin »
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #162 on: August 11, 2014, 01:32:48 am »
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Worse.
MTG does it only when it has to, like when some players are compromised on big, 2-3 days tournments, cuz some players are at disadvantage if their deck got featured (esp the deck tech) and now everybody got access to it.
But *why* is it worse? Is so much of the intrigue of the game based on surprising your opponents?

I don't see what revealing decklists bring. It's like revealing hands.
You need to consider your plays and predict future plays with much more uncertainty, which means experience and knowing the meta/game and and exact netdecklists as well those more unusual builds/cards some use is more meaningful. And I think that is good and skillful, as that is/should be the part of the game.

You're in a sense computing probabilities no matter what. It's just a matter of what the probability space is. Limiting the probability space increases the impact of in-game decisions, since the difference between computing and not computing is larger. In that sense, the gameplay becomes more skill-based and less random. The downside is that it takes out the value of deception, particularly in deck-building. You can't get value out of a surprise factor, which might limit the variety of possible decks. I assume this is valued more than the skill in play (otherwise tournaments would require people to disclose their decklists). However, for arena, deckbuilding is already restricted, but not in a way that makes decks homogenous, so I think the balance between this and the play skill element favors revealing decklists.
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nkirbit

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #163 on: August 11, 2014, 03:31:29 am »
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Worse.
MTG does it only when it has to, like when some players are compromised on big, 2-3 days tournments, cuz some players are at disadvantage if their deck got featured (esp the deck tech) and now everybody got access to it.
But *why* is it worse? Is so much of the intrigue of the game based on surprising your opponents?

I don't see what revealing decklists bring. It's like revealing hands.
You need to consider your plays and predict future plays with much more uncertainty, which means experience and knowing the meta/game and and exact netdecklists as well those more unusual builds/cards some use is more meaningful. And I think that is good and skillful, as that is/should be the part of the game.
I don't know much at all about MtG, but I'm guessing knowing the full decklist would make unpopular, situational cards even more unpopular. Can't think of any good examples of Hearthstone cards that would become even more unplayable than they are now. Anyway, revealing the decklist really ruins secrets too, should you decide to only run a couple for support.

Edit: Unless you hide the secrets, only showing how many the the player has.

In constructed, giving the opponent the knowledge that you don't have Big Game Hunter in your deck is a big deal, for example.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #164 on: August 11, 2014, 04:35:11 am »
+1

I like not revealing the decklist from a game design perspective. For a new player, there's less information to overwhelm you, and for an experienced player who knows the cards his opponent could potentially be running, there's more stuff that you have to take into account when making decisions.

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #165 on: August 16, 2014, 06:06:55 pm »
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How did I do? :)

http://arenamastery.com/43RG

Note:  When I finished I realized I only had 29 cards, not 30 in arena mastery.  Found I had missed one of my frostbolt picks so that's number 30.  Those cards aren't necessarily the cards that came up with the frostbolt because I forgot

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #166 on: August 16, 2014, 06:19:08 pm »
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Pick #2: Stormpike Commando over Shieldbearer
Pick #6: I'd probably go Gnomish Inventor
Pick #10: I could see this one going either way but I'm sure Faceless will do fine
Pick #15: I'd go for the 2/3, the 1 damage isn't worth one more mana for a worse creature
Pick #17: I really like Frostwolf Warlord in arena
Pick #26: Oh wow, two legendaries! Not sure if I'd go Thalnos over a bigger body. His spell damage is nice but there's no guarantee you'll be able to use it effectively

Your deck looks good, you had a lot of good cards to choose from this draft!
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #167 on: August 16, 2014, 06:47:06 pm »
0

I mostly agree, except I don't know what "other way" you're talking about on pick 10. Faceless is waaaaaay better than Molten or Crab...

I also want to expand on why Fuegen is better than Thalnos. You don't really have too many damage spells. At this point you have 1 Frostbolt and a Flamestrike, which is typically to expensive to play the same turn as Thalnos. So for the most part, Thalnos is just a delayed Novice Engineer in this deck, which is definitely worse than a 4/7 for 5.

Also, on picks 7 and 9, I like Mana Wyrm and Bluegill better than Loot and Aco. Both are very close and a matter of cards vs tempo. Then I take Intellect over Gurubashi to get back the card advantage. Gurubashi is okay for Mage, but really only good in Priest. Pinging it into 5/6 is fine, since 5/6 trades well with most things, but at 7 mana... meh.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #168 on: August 17, 2014, 03:05:13 am »
0

I have drafted the funniest arena deck, and have squandered it away by actually getting losses.

3 Innervates
4 Swipes
2 Spectral Knights
1 Chillwind Yeti
1 Ancient of War

are the highlights. My early game isn't that good if I don't draw the Innervates, and all the removal I have means I have surprisingly few creatures to start dealing damage. However, when I draw the right opening, it is completely hilarious. One time, I turn 2 double Innervated out an Ogre. In the game I just played against Priest, my turns went

T1: Coin + Innervate, Yeti
T2: Acidic Swamp Ooze
T3: Innervate, Spectral Knight
T4: Swipe to clear the small things he had left
T5: Spectral Knight, opponent resigns

Just, the craziest blowout games I've ever seen, as long as I draw the right cards.

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #169 on: August 23, 2014, 05:14:40 pm »
0

http://arenamastery.com/1Q1O

I didn't actually spend the time to put this in pick-by-pick, and I'll admit I wasn't really trying my hardest on this Arena.  But it ended up being a fun deck and went 3-3.  My first pick was KT Mage.  Worst case scenario, it's a 4/3 body for 3 and I don't draft any secrets.

Instead, I end up with 5 secrets in here.  KT Mage gets used to its fullest in all six games.  Duplicate ends up used on Mirror Image a couple of times, alas, though getting effectively a second MI for 0 mana isn't horrible.  But the most fun was Duplicate hitting DI Dwarf and Faerie Dragon at various points.  I believe it also grabbed one minion that was from Mirror Entity.

I'm not certain there's a place in the Constructed meta for a crazy mage-secrets deck, but this was fun to play.
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KingZog3

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #170 on: August 23, 2014, 05:17:34 pm »
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http://arenamastery.com/1Q1O

I didn't actually spend the time to put this in pick-by-pick, and I'll admit I wasn't really trying my hardest on this Arena.  But it ended up being a fun deck and went 3-3.  My first pick was KT Mage.  Worst case scenario, it's a 4/3 body for 3 and I don't draft any secrets.

Instead, I end up with 5 secrets in here.  KT Mage gets used to its fullest in all six games.  Duplicate ends up used on Mirror Image a couple of times, alas, though getting effectively a second MI for 0 mana isn't horrible.  But the most fun was Duplicate hitting DI Dwarf and Faerie Dragon at various points.  I believe it also grabbed one minion that was from Mirror Entity.

I'm not certain there's a place in the Constructed meta for a crazy mage-secrets deck, but this was fun to play.

Secret heavy mages are too gimmicky I think to be serious constructed decks. Even with Mad Scientist. I think Hunters heavy on secrets are better because they are harder to play around than most of the mage ones.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #171 on: August 25, 2014, 01:28:16 am »
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Me, Opp

T1: nothing, nothing
T2: Novice Engineer, Hero power kill Novice
T3: Innervate-Venture Co, Coin-Loot Hoarder-Amani
T4: (hm, why the Coin. Maybe he has Mark of Nature, let's play it safe.) Swipe to clear board and hit for 7, Cobra
T5: (topdeck Swipe - hey, nice!) Swipe on Cobra and hit for 7, Dark Iron Dwarf
T6: (topdeck Swipe - ...okay) Swipe on Dark Iron and hit for 7, Starfire on Venture Co into resign.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #172 on: August 25, 2014, 08:32:22 am »
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Me, Opp

T1: nothing, nothing
T2: Novice Engineer, Hero power kill Novice
T3: Innervate-Venture Co, Coin-Loot Hoarder-Amani
T4: (hm, why the Coin. Maybe he has Mark of Nature, let's play it safe.) Swipe to clear board and hit for 7, Cobra
T5: (topdeck Swipe - hey, nice!) Swipe on Cobra and hit for 7, Dark Iron Dwarf
T6: (topdeck Swipe - ...okay) Swipe on Dark Iron and hit for 7, Starfire on Venture Co into resign.

To be fair, not many opponents are going to have a response to T3 VC Merc, unless they kept a removal in hand just to counter such a thing.  And of course a druid would need either a pair of Swipes/Wraths or a Naturalize.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #173 on: August 25, 2014, 11:08:29 am »
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My opponent just silenced my Ancient Mage.

This goes in the Best HS thread.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #174 on: August 30, 2014, 12:52:33 am »
+1

So I went 12-2 with Shaman! It was pretty good, two Spectral Knights did lots of work against Mages and 2x Hex + 1x Lightning Storm were useful. No Fire Elementals, but more than my fair share of 10/10 Frostwolf Warlords. There was also a good game which started out with

Me: Pass
Opp: Pass
Me: Searing Totem
Opp: Searing Totem
Me: Earthen Ring Farseer, heal Opp
Opp: Earthen Ring Farseer, heal me

Anyway, right after that run ended, I started a new arena, and my first pick was between Deathwing, Leeroy, and Cairne. And then, my last pick, well... http://arenamastery.com/epHO
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #175 on: August 30, 2014, 06:26:41 pm »
0

Ah, so close to a 12 win run. I got 11-3 with this Paladin deck, a personal best: http://arenamastery.com/B0bu

Around the middle of the draft, I recognized the board control potential of the deck, and so leaned more towards buff cards and divine shield givers. I did this run on my smurfy Euro account, which I used to get some arena practice while saving for Naxxramas wings on my main NA account. At this rate, my Euro account might save enough gold to buy all the wings of Naxx too.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #176 on: August 30, 2014, 06:39:00 pm »
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Just went 12-2 after starting out 0-2, which feels really good. I thought my deck was quite good and was quite frustrated it looked so bad in the beginning, especially since the priest I lost my second game to seemed to have literally the only possible answers to what I did: He Mass dispelled my board of 2 blessing-of-kinged Oozes+Nerubian Egg, and Auchenai-Circled my huge board later on.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2014, 06:42:05 pm by Watno »
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #177 on: August 30, 2014, 09:51:49 pm »
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Just went 12-2 after starting out 0-2, which feels really good. I thought my deck was quite good and was quite frustrated it looked so bad in the beginning, especially since the priest I lost my second game to seemed to have literally the only possible answers to what I did: He Mass dispelled my board of 2 blessing-of-kinged Oozes+Nerubian Egg, and Auchenai-Circled my huge board later on.
I hear ya. I had an Paladin arena run just now that went 8-3 where I lost the first 2 games. Just goes to show that it's always worth playing an arena run to the end if you think your deck has what it takes to go far.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #178 on: September 01, 2014, 02:08:14 am »
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One thing to note though is that if you do go 0-2 the chances are decently high that you will still get pretty far with your deck. Because it will try to match you with someone else who is 0-2 so they will usually have a poor deck. Then you get matched with someone close to 1-2 who most likely also has a poor deck. Where as when you win a bunch and your 5-0 you tend to hit someone who has a much better deck and can start to lose steam.

I know at least from my experience I usually go 5-0 and then from 5-7 wins is where I get most of my losses usually 1 or 2, It seems like there i a wall for me there. But if I start out 0-2 I can still get 7 wins pretty frequently.

Some of my best runs and actually I believe some of my 12 win runs have all been from starting out 0-2. So don't give up if it looks bleak!

(Also this info could be wrong. I havn't found a source that I'm citing or anything but I'm pretty sure I heard it from somewhere that was a blizzard employee or something. But this could be wrong and don't trust it 100% unless you find a source that you can trust)
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #179 on: September 01, 2014, 10:49:32 pm »
+1

Hitting a Deathlord with a Stampeding Kodo is so so wrong, but feels so good.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #180 on: September 01, 2014, 10:59:07 pm »
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Hitting a Deathlord with a Stampeding Kodo is so so wrong, but feels so good.
And you know what AdamH always says!

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #181 on: September 01, 2014, 11:23:39 pm »
+2

Hitting a Deathlord with a Stampeding Kodo is so so wrong, but feels so good.
And you know what AdamH always says!

"I'm streaming" ?
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #182 on: September 02, 2014, 01:03:50 am »
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So this one went 5-0 to start, currently 7-2.  Not entirely sure what I did right, but it was something:

http://arenamastery.com/FADC
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #183 on: September 02, 2014, 01:26:47 am »
0

So this one went 5-0 to start, currently 7-2.  Not entirely sure what I did right, but it was something:

http://arenamastery.com/FADC

You got 5 elementals. Elementals rock arena.

Some unsolicited pick comments:
1. Shade is easily the worst of the 3 cards offered. It's an average 3-drop. Doomhammer is amazing.
3. I fell like you have to take Champ, expecially in Shaman. It's a top tier card while Forked is merely above average.
8. I like Bloodsail better than Panther, simply because 2-drops are more important than 3-drops.
16. Earth Shock is okay, but I think Cleric is too good in Shaman to pass up for anything that's not going to 2-for-1.
18. Tauren is one of the worst cards in the game. While Bodyguard will often trade down, it will almost always at least trade for a card, which is more than can be said for Tauren.
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Kirian

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #184 on: September 03, 2014, 11:59:23 am »
0

http://arenamastery.com/rCi6

Double Dragon:  Ysera and Onyxia in one arena draft.

Plus!  4 Korkron Elites and 2 MC Techs.

I think this one may work out well... either that or I'll play badly and waste a 2-legendary arena deck.
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Jorbles

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #185 on: September 03, 2014, 12:43:31 pm »
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I also just got a 2 Legendary Arena run! So far it's gone 3-0. This is what I drafted from memory (I have not setup Arena Mastery yet, but I think I am about to). I clearly forgot a few cards, but I think they're probably average 2 or 3 drop minions. (Edit: Actually I recounted and apparently I remember all 30 cards which shocks me that my memory is so good, there's possibly 1 or 2 errors, but this is very close to the exact draft). Where I remember the draft cards I rejected I've put the cards I didn't pick in ()s.

1s:
2 x Mana Wyrm
2 x Arcane Missiles
1 x Undertaker (Silverback Patriarch, Mogushan Warden)

2s:
1 x Sorceror's Apprentice
3 x Frostbolt!
1 x Novice Inventor
2 x Amani Berserker
1 x River Croc

3s:
1 x Dancing Sword
1 x Tauren Warrior
1 x Arcane Intellect
1 x Duplicate
1 x Scarlet Crusader

4s:
2 x Polymorph
2 x Violet Teacher!
1 x Cone of Cold

5+s:
1 x Stranglethorn Tiger
1 x Frost Elemental
1 x Sunfury Protector
1 x Black Knight (Tinkmaster, Alexandria)
1 x Flamestrike
1 x Ysera (Loatheb, Hogger)
1 x Molten Giant (Sea Giant, Big Game Hunter)

On Tauren Warrior: I agree that it's pretty garbage with most classes, but in Mage it's probably only a slightly below average 3 drop since you can activate it yourself. An expensive Amani Berserker with Taunt is better than a lot of things in a Mage deck.
On Undertaker: There is definitely only 1 card with Deathrattle in my deck (Dancing Sword) but it's still better than Silverback and Mogushan.
On Black Knight: I briefly debated taking Alexandria, but eventually decided on Black Knight because of the popularity of Taunt cards in Arena. I haven't actually drawn him yet, but I'm sure he'll be great. (I never considered taking Tinkmaster.)
On Ysera: I really considered Loatheb here, but I think he's better in Constructed than Arena as Arena decks tend to be more minion heavy (not the one I drafted, but in general). Ysera on the other hand can generate a big card advantage late game and hopefully by the time she's played some other beefy card has eaten the creature removal spells from the opponents deck. (This happened in my second game where Protector ate a Polymorph letting me put Ysera out safely and win.) I like Hogger, but he's usually killed off before you can get much value out of him, Ysera and Loatheb are superior in my opinion.
On Molten Giant decision: This was my first choice in the game and in retrospect I would have taken Sea Giant. There's been plenty of opportunities to play it for 6 or less (the Violet Teachers have been spawning lots of Apprentices and Duplicate tends to let you flood the board at some point, especially if you duplicate something cheap or a Violet Teacher). I considered taking BGH, but thought to myself "Would I rather kill a big creature an opponent might have or have a big creature that an opponent might kill?" The answer was then clear that I needed a Giant. Luckily I drafted other ways to deal with large threats.
On Violet Teachers: Normally I would consider this a pretty average card, not bad, but not great. In this draft though they get a lot of value almost always creating 1 or 2 apprentices before eating a silence or being killed.

On the deck in general:
This is a spell heavy draft. Two Mana Wyrms, two Violet Teachers and a Sorceror's Apprentice synergize really well with spells. Lots of Frostbolts, two Polymorphs, and a Flamestrike are great on their own, but having those spell synergy minions makes Arcane Missiles, Arcane Intellect and Cone of Cold punch above their weight class. No opportunities to draft Spell Power cards made me sad, though, and I think would have really pushed this draft through the roof.

This deck has a lack of strong 4 drops (no Yetis, Water Elementals or Senjins were seen in the draft, nor were any Fireballs), but a lot of the smaller cards can trade up so they're making up for it a bit.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2014, 12:45:41 pm by Jorbles »
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Kirian

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #186 on: September 03, 2014, 12:51:19 pm »
0

I think this one may work out well... either that or I'll play badly and waste a 2-legendary arena deck.

And since my first game was lost to another warrior who was able to get a Shade up to 9/7 before I drew a weapon... yeah, this could go badly.

Game 3:  All of my weapons, both legendaries, Commander, two Elites were all in my last 13 cards.  That went poorly.

....and 5-3 overall.  At least I got to play both legends at least once (Ysera four times I think)
« Last Edit: September 03, 2014, 02:12:46 pm by Kirian »
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #187 on: September 03, 2014, 01:12:56 pm »
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I just got zoo'd in arena. Doom guard, flame imp, soul fires, undertaker, haunted creeper... So pissed since it was on my shaman run that went 8-3.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #188 on: September 05, 2014, 10:43:16 pm »
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I'm starting to warm up to Pint Sized Summoner. Before, I thought it was pretty bad, since it's a 2/2 that usually dies pretty fast.

Now, I'm putting it around average. Yes, it's not as good if you draw it after the first couple of turns, or if you're going second. However, if you can play it turn 2, and it doesn't die, the power of getting a 4 cost out on turn 3 makes it worth it.

From playing it a bit, here's the common scenarios:

1. Go first, play turn 2 against empty board. Either they kill it that turn, which makes it no different from a 3/2, or it lives and you can get a 4 cost out next turn
2. Go second, coin it out if it makes sense to (meaning you have another 2 cost and a 3 cost.) Same scenario, either trades for a piece of removal or you get a 3 drop turn 2, which isn't amazing but can help.
3. Go second, doesn't make sense to coin it, and they play a 2/3 or 3/2 on their turn 2. The 2/3 is worst, the 3/2 is okay but leaves you open to SSC.
3. Go second, play turn 2, somehow lives until your turn 3 because they didn't play anything turn 2. Then it's the same as the first case.
4. Draw late game and it's bad.

So overall, I think I should be treating it as a weaker Knife Juggler - it has a big target and usually dies first, sometimes dying in bad ways for card advantage, but the potential tempo boost makes it decent.

(The deck I'm playing where I started thinking about this, in case this is only true because my deck has a nice curve for it. Might be true, I have some pretty solid 4s. Warlock, currently 5-2.)

---0 cost---
Soulfire
---1 cost---
Power Overwhelming
Mortal Coil
Zombie Chow
---2 cost---
Knife Juggler
Kobold Geomancer
Mad Bomber
Mad Scientist
Nerubian Egg
Pint Sized Summoner
Sunfury Protector
---3 cost---
Drain Life
Shadow Bolt
Demolisher
Scarlet Crusader
Shattered Sun Cleric
Wolfrider
---4 cost---
Hellfire
Chillwind Yeti
Cult Master
Dark Iron Dwarf
Gnomish Inventor
Pit Lord
Stormwind Knight
Violet Teacher
---5 cost---
Darkscale Healer
Fen Creeper
Spectral Knight
Stormpike Commando
---8 cost---
Twisting Nether
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #189 on: September 07, 2014, 11:23:41 am »
0

Have you guys ever had a draft that you thought sucked but then it does remarkably well? I had an insightful Mage arena run yesterday that I thought would struggle to reach 3 wins because it didn't have many good early minions. Instead it went 9-3:
http://arenamastery.com/mD8X
I didn't bother adding the draft choices info. Sometimes I feel that recording all the draft choices distracts me, or maybe I'm just lazy sometimes. I'm curious to know how happy you'd all be if you had such a draft.

It was really interesting how the cards played out together. It gave me a sense of what a real tempo-heavy deck would play like. Turns 1-3 I had to play defensively, but after turn 4 I had an onslaught on value minions to play. If my opponents didn't respond to them promptly, then my minions could do enough face damage to give me Pyroblast-lethal later. The deck wouldn't win by board control, but taunts were key to keeping my mininos from being traded into. Makes me think that the lack of Flamestrike actually improved the deck. Pyroblast was key though.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #190 on: September 07, 2014, 11:44:38 am »
+2

Have you guys ever had a draft that you thought sucked but then it does remarkably well?
No, but I've had the reverse happen, let's see, pretty much every time I've entered the arena.

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #191 on: September 07, 2014, 12:41:23 pm »
0

Have you guys ever had a draft that you thought sucked but then it does remarkably well?
No, but I've had the reverse happen, let's see, pretty much every time I've entered the arena.
How likely you are to get far in a run is inversely proportional to how many legendaries you have in the draft.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #192 on: September 07, 2014, 09:20:07 pm »
0

Have you guys ever had a draft that you thought sucked but then it does remarkably well?
No, but I've had the reverse happen, let's see, pretty much every time I've entered the arena.
How likely you are to get far in a run is inversely proportional to how many legendaries you have in the draft.

This is totally untrue. Legendaries are strong cards a lot if the time. You just can't view them as an auto win.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #193 on: September 07, 2014, 09:51:00 pm »
+1

Have you guys ever had a draft that you thought sucked but then it does remarkably well?
No, but I've had the reverse happen, let's see, pretty much every time I've entered the arena.
How likely you are to get far in a run is inversely proportional to how many legendaries you have in the draft.

This is totally untrue. Legendaries are strong cards a lot if the time. You just can't view them as an auto win.
Based on the stories I've read in this thread and personal experience, legendaries have little to do with how successful the deck will be at best and curse the deck to mediocrity at worst. Maybe the legendaries just need a deck that they fit in well with to be awesome. Still, the complaints of "OMG arena sux need RNG to draft legendaries and epics 2 win" that you see online are total nonsense.

Many legendaries are situational or have prohibitively high mana cost. I can totally see myself taking, say, a Sunwalker instead of a legendary like Sylvanas. Incidently, The Black Knight is possibly one of the strongest legendaries you can draft just due to the number of quality threats it can remove, such as Sunwalker.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #194 on: September 08, 2014, 09:24:51 am »
0

Have you guys ever had a draft that you thought sucked but then it does remarkably well?
No, but I've had the reverse happen, let's see, pretty much every time I've entered the arena.
How likely you are to get far in a run is inversely proportional to how many legendaries you have in the draft.

This is totally untrue. Legendaries are strong cards a lot if the time. You just can't view them as an auto win.
Based on the stories I've read in this thread and personal experience, legendaries have little to do with how successful the deck will be at best and curse the deck to mediocrity at worst. Maybe the legendaries just need a deck that they fit in well with to be awesome. Still, the complaints of "OMG arena sux need RNG to draft legendaries and epics 2 win" that you see online are total nonsense.

Many legendaries are situational or have prohibitively high mana cost. I can totally see myself taking, say, a Sunwalker instead of a legendary like Sylvanas. Incidently, The Black Knight is possibly one of the strongest legendaries you can draft just due to the number of quality threats it can remove, such as Sunwalker.

Oh I agree the "RNG for legends to wn arena" is totally false, but that doesn't stop Cairne from being a solid 6drop, or Rag from being a good late game card. You just have to think about the choice like any other card in the draft, picking a big legendary only if you can afford the large drop in your deck.
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Grujah

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #195 on: September 08, 2014, 11:12:22 am »
+1

So, I'm jinx and I stay away from picking mage in arena.
So after refusing it many times, I finally said "heck it" and picked it.
And like last 3 times. No Fireballs, No Flamestrikes. 2 Watery guys but once I misscliced and picked 2/2 vanilla :P.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #196 on: September 08, 2014, 04:12:37 pm »
0

Have you guys ever had a draft that you thought sucked but then it does remarkably well?
No, but I've had the reverse happen, let's see, pretty much every time I've entered the arena.
How likely you are to get far in a run is inversely proportional to how many legendaries you have in the draft.

This is totally untrue. Legendaries are strong cards a lot if the time. You just can't view them as an auto win.
Based on the stories I've read in this thread and personal experience, legendaries have little to do with how successful the deck will be at best and curse the deck to mediocrity at worst. Maybe the legendaries just need a deck that they fit in well with to be awesome. Still, the complaints of "OMG arena sux need RNG to draft legendaries and epics 2 win" that you see online are total nonsense.

Many legendaries are situational or have prohibitively high mana cost. I can totally see myself taking, say, a Sunwalker instead of a legendary like Sylvanas. Incidently, The Black Knight is possibly one of the strongest legendaries you can draft just due to the number of quality threats it can remove, such as Sunwalker.

Oh I agree the "RNG for legends to wn arena" is totally false, but that doesn't stop Cairne from being a solid 6drop, or Rag from being a good late game card. You just have to think about the choice like any other card in the draft, picking a big legendary only if you can afford the large drop in your deck.
I'm currently in the middle of a 4-2 Hunter run with Deathwing in it. I guess all bets are off when it comes to Deathwing. I almost won with it last game, but my opponent was able to drop molten giant with 4 extra damage worth of minions.
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KingZog3

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #197 on: September 08, 2014, 04:14:29 pm »
0

Have you guys ever had a draft that you thought sucked but then it does remarkably well?
No, but I've had the reverse happen, let's see, pretty much every time I've entered the arena.
How likely you are to get far in a run is inversely proportional to how many legendaries you have in the draft.

This is totally untrue. Legendaries are strong cards a lot if the time. You just can't view them as an auto win.
Based on the stories I've read in this thread and personal experience, legendaries have little to do with how successful the deck will be at best and curse the deck to mediocrity at worst. Maybe the legendaries just need a deck that they fit in well with to be awesome. Still, the complaints of "OMG arena sux need RNG to draft legendaries and epics 2 win" that you see online are total nonsense.

Many legendaries are situational or have prohibitively high mana cost. I can totally see myself taking, say, a Sunwalker instead of a legendary like Sylvanas. Incidently, The Black Knight is possibly one of the strongest legendaries you can draft just due to the number of quality threats it can remove, such as Sunwalker.

Oh I agree the "RNG for legends to wn arena" is totally false, but that doesn't stop Cairne from being a solid 6drop, or Rag from being a good late game card. You just have to think about the choice like any other card in the draft, picking a big legendary only if you can afford the large drop in your deck.
I'm currently in the middle of a 4-2 Hunter run with Deathwing in it. I guess all bets are off when it comes to Deathwing. I almost won with it last game, but my opponent was able to drop molten giant with 4 extra damage worth of minions.

Deathwing is unique in that sense, that either it'll win or be a waste of a card. It's more like the mid drop legendaris, and some of the class ones, are decent on their own. I agree though that some are too specific, things like anotindas and such. But things like Tirion Frodring are amazing.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #198 on: September 08, 2014, 04:48:48 pm »
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Deathwing is one of the best legendaries in arena though, because you'll only play it in a losing position. Meaning, you are either winning, or you completely turn around the game, and if they could remove Deathwing you were probably going to lose anyways.

Okay, maybe saying it's the best is a bit too much, especially because you could die before turn 10, but I'd certainly pick it over most legendaries.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #199 on: September 08, 2014, 05:31:57 pm »
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Deathwing is one of the best legendaries in arena though, because you'll only play it in a losing position. Meaning, you are either winning, or you completely turn around the game, and if they could remove Deathwing you were probably going to lose anyways.

Okay, maybe saying it's the best is a bit too much, especially because you could die before turn 10, but I'd certainly pick it over most legendaries.

I didn't say it was bad, just that it's effect is unique and isn't quite representational of picking legendaries in arena.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #200 on: September 08, 2014, 06:35:47 pm »
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Oh man, Tirion Fordring. If Tirion + Redemption doesn't make you want to rage quit, I don't know what will.

The thing is, it's easy to not play Deathwing when it wouldn't help you, but that dead card could have been something that's almost always playable like Avenging Wrath or Fireball. Cards like those strengthen your position no matter who has the advantage. Many legendaries don't provide that flexibility.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #201 on: September 10, 2014, 01:37:11 pm »
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Ugh, was playing a Rogue deck that's 2-2. Not a great deck, but I was hoping to eke out a third and maybe 4th win with it. I start the game playing second, my opponent uses his first turn wasting Claw to do 2 damage to my face. Off to a good start. By turn three I've got a developed board (a 3/1 and a 2/2) 5 cards in hand and he's played 3 creatures that I was able to remove with the combined resources of one Backstab and two dagger stabs. He has two cards in hand. There's still a lot of game to play, but I'm in a very good position and he doesn't seem very experienced.

He seems to be taking a long time, maybe he's slow rolling me? I'm unsure, but wait it out. He's taking a really long time, I think that maybe the fuse should have started by now, time keeps ticking. His character has definitely made the "I'm thinking" quote 4 times now, that's higher than usual. I get a message popping up saying I'm reconnecting to Hearthstone and that I've been disconnected... dammit.

By the time I reconnect enough turns have passed he has cleared my board, gotten me down to 3 life and played 3 minions that I could have removed immediately with the cards in my hand. I reconnect just in time to lose the game, but see that I had drawn the cards to win the game. I lose the game sitting on a couple minions, 3 eviscerates, a sprint, and an assassinate.

Worst disconnect ever.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #202 on: September 10, 2014, 03:43:35 pm »
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Hearthstone seems much worse with disconnects now. I get this a lot, to the point that I now check my connection if I see the "what to do" bubble more than twice. It just says I reconnected, or says I disconnected like 4 turns worth later.
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Jorbles

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #203 on: September 10, 2014, 04:19:09 pm »
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Hearthstone seems much worse with disconnects now. I get this a lot, to the point that I now check my connection if I see the "what to do" bubble more than twice. It just says I reconnected, or says I disconnected like 4 turns worth later.

I'm glad it's not just me. Maybe Blizzard will do something to fix it if it's something effecting everyone.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #204 on: September 10, 2014, 05:40:44 pm »
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Hearthstone seems much worse with disconnects now. I get this a lot, to the point that I now check my connection if I see the "what to do" bubble more than twice. It just says I reconnected, or says I disconnected like 4 turns worth later.

I'm glad it's not just me. Maybe Blizzard will do something to fix it if it's something effecting everyone.

Yeah. Also sometimes I see battle.net is offline, but hearthstone hasn't told me I'm disconnected yet.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #205 on: September 12, 2014, 04:39:52 am »
+2

11-2, final boss's name is "winvincible"

I manage to get out Sea Giant + Faceless + Yeti + Spectral Knight + Dark Iron Dwarf, have 25 health to opponent's 15

Opponent steals Sea Giant with Mind Control Tech
Then plays Blizzard on three consecutive turns
Then finishes me off with Pyroblast

not much I can do but laugh and shrug it off after that one  :P
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #206 on: September 12, 2014, 10:48:05 am »
+1

I'm starting to warm up to Pint Sized Summoner. Before, I thought it was pretty bad, since it's a 2/2 that usually dies pretty fast.

I think 2/2s are generally underrated. The thing is that there are not that many 2/3s and other than Amani, they are not picked that highly, so there's a pretty good chance your 2/2 won't go 0-for-1. If there's reasonable upside, then it's worth it. Dire Wolf is above average. Pint-sized and Mana Wraith are decent.

Still, the complaints of "OMG arena sux need RNG to draft legendaries and epics 2 win" that you see online are total nonsense.

Yeah, I think on average, Legendaries and Epics are worse than Commons and Rares in arena. They do tend to be more situational cards which don't fit into a random arena deck so well, whereas there are more simple solid value cards among the Commons/Rares. Really you're more interested in seeing more Fireballs, Truesilvers, DotCs, Backstabs, Sen'jin's, Crusaders, etc. rather than cards of higher rarity.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #207 on: September 12, 2014, 12:04:26 pm »
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Have you guys ever had a draft that you thought sucked but then it does remarkably well?
No, but I've had the reverse happen, let's see, pretty much every time I've entered the arena.
Hey, now I've had the original thing happen too! I had a Hunter deck which I thought had way too many $2 and $3 cards, but I ended up going 8-3 which is remarkably well for me (previous best was 4-3).

Jorbles

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #208 on: September 12, 2014, 12:39:03 pm »
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I'm starting to warm up to Pint Sized Summoner. Before, I thought it was pretty bad, since it's a 2/2 that usually dies pretty fast.

I think 2/2s are generally underrated. The thing is that there are not that many 2/3s and other than Amani, they are not picked that highly, so there's a pretty good chance your 2/2 won't go 0-for-1. If there's reasonable upside, then it's worth it. Dire Wolf is above average. Pint-sized and Mana Wraith are decent.

What about Harvest Golem, Sunfury Protector and Feral Spirit? (I also tend to take Crocolisk over a lot of things, but I don't think that's the general case.) The problem isn't so much that they trade poorly with 2/3s, but that they also trade poorly with 1 mana minions. Gnomes, Worgen Infiltrators, Argent Squires, etc are relatively commonly drafted and look for opportunities like this to trade up. A 3/2 has the opportunity to trade up with many 3 drops, but a 2/2 doesn't have many chances to do this and has a lot of opportunities to let your opponent trade up.

That said I think Dire Wolf is great because of the extra attack it generates, it's often effectively a 4/2 with 2 of its attack charging. I'd say Pint-Sized and Mana Wraith are below average, they're good because they're 2 drops that can give you some extra benefit, but as they are rares I'll often leave them unpicked if there's a better rare there that can fit into a different part of the curve. You have to compare it to what you pick it against and that is other rares. For instance, great Arena cards that are not 2 drops like Drakes, Defender of Argus, Kodos, MC Tech and even cards that are better in constructed like Auctioneer and Violet Teacher, which I'd probably pick over it unless I was really short on 2 drops. Even if you're just talking 2 drop rares Pyromancer, Sunfury Protector and Knife Juggler are all better, partially because of their better stats, but also because their benefits are way stronger.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2014, 12:41:44 pm by Jorbles »
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #209 on: September 12, 2014, 02:41:58 pm »
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^I wouldn't say Dire wolf is "often 4/2 with 2 of its attack charging". It's often a Rifleman when it comes out and demands to be removed.
Sunfury and Feral are rare, and Harvest Golem is a 3-drop. Definitely 2/2s are worse than 3/2s in that if you don't play them on turn 2, the body is weak. Pint-sized and Mana Wraith are good when played on turn 2. They trade with 3/2s, and have upside. They get worse later in the game, which is why they are slightly below-average cards. Dire Wolf actually is good if you can maintain something on the board, which makes it the best of the 2/2s, the only neutral one better than Raptor.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #210 on: September 12, 2014, 03:53:10 pm »
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^I wouldn't say Dire wolf is "often 4/2 with 2 of its attack charging". It's often a Rifleman when it comes out and demands to be removed.
A taunting Rifleman for $2 is still pretty good.

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #211 on: September 13, 2014, 12:05:25 pm »
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^I wouldn't say Dire wolf is "often 4/2 with 2 of its attack charging". It's often a Rifleman when it comes out and demands to be removed.
A taunting Rifleman for $2 is still pretty good.

Right, but it's not as good as Stormpike Commando for $2.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #212 on: September 13, 2014, 05:03:05 pm »
0

http://arenamastery.com/5RqC

Thoughts?  I was offered so few 4s...
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Titandrake

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #213 on: September 13, 2014, 07:08:30 pm »
0

I agree with all picks except

9: Violet Teacher > Sunfury
25: Core Hound > 1/4 Spell Damage guy
28: Unbound > Windspeaker
29: Lord of Arena > Voodoo Doctor
30: Maybe Sunwalker over Twilight, but I'm less sure about this one. Sunwalker is a better card but Twilight fills gaps in your curve more and is still decent.

Although you don't have that many Overload cards to make your Unbounds ridiculous, you still have enough to make them solid, and 2/4 for 3 is still a good card anyways. The deck doesn't have ways to get the board back, but there's lots of ways to maintain board presence, and you have solid early + late game. Your turns 4/5 are the rough ones but past that you're set.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #214 on: September 14, 2014, 12:20:06 am »
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Yeah, I felt I really didn't have enough spells likely to make the Teacher worth it.  Those last few picks I picked for curve... I was so dense on heavy stuff, a Sunwalker or Lord just seemed so heavy.

Windspeaker actually served pretty well a few times; I went 4-0.  Plus this is the pack that I got:

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #215 on: September 14, 2014, 12:33:56 am »
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Ancient of War is good, and so is Sunwalker. I've only seen Blessing of Champion a few times, as it's not actually that amazing. Explosive might be more useful with the Buzzard nerf is Control Hunter is ever a thing. But I've seen mid range run 1 sometimes. It's not bad as medium AoE.
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Kirian

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #216 on: September 14, 2014, 12:47:46 am »
0

Ancient of War is good, and so is Sunwalker. I've only seen Blessing of Champion a few times, as it's not actually that amazing. Explosive might be more useful with the Buzzard nerf is Control Hunter is ever a thing. But I've seen mid range run 1 sometimes. It's not bad as medium AoE.

Even if the individual cards are only good for dust, an Epic and 3 Rares is amazing.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #217 on: September 14, 2014, 01:17:54 am »
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War is great, Sunwalker is great, Explosive is amazing in arena, doesn't fit in as well in Hunter constructed decks but definitely playable.

On Violet Teacher - think of it as a Sen'jin minus the taunt at minimum. 3/5 is inherently a really solid body at 4 mana (which is why Yeti is amazing)
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #218 on: September 14, 2014, 05:27:25 pm »
0

http://arenamastery.com/5RqC

Thoughts?  I was offered so few 4s...

1. Pyro > Imp Master. Imp Master requires board control to be good. With Shaman you want to focus on *getting* board control, not winning more when you have it. Your hero power does that. The synergy with Heal Totem is cute, but a solid 3/2 is better.
9. Sunfury vs Teacher. This one is close. Teacher is fine stats for 4, but it's not close to Sen'jin. The synergy between the high health and the taunt is what makes Sen'jin great. It's a bit more like Silvermoon guardian -- hard to remove but only 3 damage. It can 2-for-1 2-drops, but is not a spectacular tempo play. And Shaman really likes Taunt, so Sunfury is better than for other classes. With the big minions you already have, I like the Sunfury pick here.
11. Tiger > Bomber. Tiger is really good. You'd be hard-pressed to have it not trade favorably, plus it's a great buff target. The list of Neutral commons I take over Tiger is very short: Sen'jin, Yeti, Crusader, Dwarf, Ogre, Ooze, Harvest Golem, Merc, Spectral Knight, Champ, Cleric.
16. Bodyguard > Leper. Leper is really bad. Against 3 classes it will not even trade for a card. Bodyguard always at least trades for something, even if trading down, and it's a taunt, so it can force your opponent into some suboptimal plays.
25. Shieldbearer > Dalaran. You're right that your curve is too high for Core Hound, but Shieldbearer is better than Dalaran. With hardly any damage spells, it's essentially the same body, but one has taunt and costs 2 less mana. There's really not that much difference between 0 and 1 damage -- neither really kills anything.
28. Windspeaker vs Unbound. Unbound is really good since it kills 3/2s and lives, but I think you're right on this one. You have a lot of big minions and 2 Flametongues. This is the spot for Windspeaker.
29. Lord > Doc. Yeah you have a lot of high mana stuff, but it's not not worth picking a Voodoo Doctor. The problem with having too many expensive cards is that you can't play them all. But if you have and play a Voodoo Doctor, it's not much better than just not playing anything, so you didn't really gain anything over taking the expensive card.
30. Twilight vs Sunwalker. I agree with you here. You don't have the kind of deck that's going to be emptying your hand, so Twilight is like Yeti.
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ycz6

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #219 on: September 15, 2014, 02:36:17 am »
0

I am about to start an arena run with Tinkmaster Overspark, Feugen, Nozdormu... and Alarm-o-bot.

http://arenamastery.com/HcZu

And three Consecrations. Wish me luck!!

Edit: 3-3 :/
« Last Edit: September 15, 2014, 03:30:15 am by ycz6 »
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KingZog3

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #220 on: September 15, 2014, 09:28:50 am »
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I am about to start an arena run with Tinkmaster Overspark, Feugen, Nozdormu... and Alarm-o-bot.

http://arenamastery.com/HcZu

And three Consecrations. Wish me luck!!

Edit: 3-3 :/

Why would you take Nozdormu over Onyxia?
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #221 on: September 15, 2014, 12:32:57 pm »
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I've been having trouble with Rogue in arena. It seems to be my worst class.

I just started this arena run, currently 1-0. Any comments on the draft?
http://arenamastery.com/GWJM
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Jorbles

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #222 on: September 15, 2014, 05:00:43 pm »
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I'm not great at Rogue either, but I thought your draft looked pretty good to me. Just a few comments

#9 I might have taken the Defias Ringleader here, but it's pretty close. DRs are really good 2 drops. Gnomish Inventor is solid anyways.
#21 Probably would have taken the Farseer. You usually take some damage with your hero ability and you have a fair amount of large minions that might survive an engagement. Lots of use for 3 healing. Shiv is not great. Mostly just a way to cycle a card.
#22 On the other hand I probably would have taken Fan of Knives here. It's useful against popular cards that generate a few trash minions that are often floating around (Imp Masters, Violet Teachers, Haunted Creepers). For one more mana it's way more useful than Shiv. Flesh Eating Ghoul is kinda meh. It's not terrible. I don't really begrudge you the choice here, but I probably would have taken FoK.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #223 on: September 15, 2014, 07:07:20 pm »
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^ I took Shiv because I wanted more 2 mana cards to play over another 3 drop that I already had a copy of, and I wanted to give Ogre Magi something to do. Earthen Ring was probably better anyway.

Fan of Knives isn't better than Ghoul in a vacuum, but with so few taunts Fan was probably the better choice.

The run is 3-0 so far.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #224 on: September 15, 2014, 09:27:36 pm »
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This deck has been pretty fun, 3-0 so far. I do wish I had had an Amani Berzerker or 2, I passed one up early for the Spectral Knight, but how was I supposed to know this deck was going to be so aggro? Even then, Spectral is still probably better because it's hard to remove, meaning it's very likely to put in damage.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #225 on: September 15, 2014, 09:37:53 pm »
0

This deck has been pretty fun, 3-0 so far. I do wish I had had an Amani Berzerker or 2, I passed one up early for the Spectral Knight, but how was I supposed to know this deck was going to be so aggro? Even then, Spectral is still probably better because it's hard to remove, meaning it's very likely to put in damage.

I pretty much auto pick Spectral Knight. He's better than Yeti I think, possibly the best neutral common for arena. He has so much impact on the board, he's almost AoE.
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Titandrake

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #226 on: September 15, 2014, 10:05:14 pm »
0

This deck has been pretty fun, 3-0 so far. I do wish I had had an Amani Berzerker or 2, I passed one up early for the Spectral Knight, but how was I supposed to know this deck was going to be so aggro? Even then, Spectral is still probably better because it's hard to remove, meaning it's very likely to put in damage.

I pretty much auto pick Spectral Knight. He's better than Yeti I think, possibly the best neutral common for arena. He has so much impact on the board, he's almost AoE.

Yeah, Yeti and Spectral are both auto-picks for me. In here, I think Spiteful Smith is arguably a better card because of all my weapons, but I didn't see one to pick.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #227 on: September 15, 2014, 11:54:52 pm »
0

I've been having trouble with Rogue in arena. It seems to be my worst class.

I just started this arena run, currently 1-0. Any comments on the draft?
http://arenamastery.com/GWJM
Ended 8-3. My best rest for Rogue so far.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #228 on: September 17, 2014, 03:25:05 am »
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I am about to start an arena run with Tinkmaster Overspark, Feugen, Nozdormu... and Alarm-o-bot.

http://arenamastery.com/HcZu

And three Consecrations. Wish me luck!!

Edit: 3-3 :/

Why would you take Nozdormu over Onyxia?

I've had Onyxia in an arena before, but not Nozdormu. :)

Nozdormu actually won me two of those games, as it turns out. In one case my opponent failed to attack with any of his three minions on board and I had lethal, and in the other my opponent just resigned immediately.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #229 on: September 17, 2014, 10:01:17 am »
0

I am about to start an arena run with Tinkmaster Overspark, Feugen, Nozdormu... and Alarm-o-bot.

http://arenamastery.com/HcZu

And three Consecrations. Wish me luck!!

Edit: 3-3 :/

Why would you take Nozdormu over Onyxia?

I've had Onyxia in an arena before, but not Nozdormu. :)

Nozdormu actually won me two of those games, as it turns out. In one case my opponent failed to attack with any of his three minions on board and I had lethal, and in the other my opponent just resigned immediately.

So 1 game really, since the second seems like a bit of an idiot :P Onyxia would for sure have done better, but I understand wanting to hear Nozdormus attack sounds and stuff. It's exciting.
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theory

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #230 on: September 17, 2014, 10:04:23 am »
+6

It's a tech card for the iPad matchup.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #231 on: September 17, 2014, 10:20:41 am »
0

It's a tech card for the iPad matchup.

Still not a reason to pick it over Onyxia. If anything then, out of politeness you don't pick it.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #232 on: September 17, 2014, 08:25:54 pm »
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The choice I'm currently looking at:  Black Knight vs. Cairne vs. VanCleef.  I don't think I've ever had three actually good legendaries available to choose from...
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #233 on: September 17, 2014, 08:30:44 pm »
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Probably not VanCleef. Depends on the other cards.

Other two are top-notch, I think I'd give a slight advantage to TBK.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #234 on: September 17, 2014, 10:53:23 pm »
+1

I went with BK... and went 2-3.  Alas.

Highlight now of my current (3-2) Mage.  I go first against a Priest

M1: Pass
P1: Coin, Amani Berseker
M2: Swamp Ooze (should take out the Berserker, right?)
P2: PW:S, PW:S, kill Ooze.

With no taunts in hand, I couldn't kill the thing until I topdecked a FB... by which point I was already hosed.  Just amazing.

Edit:  OK, I take it back.  The highlight was my Deathlord pulling out a Warlock's Mountain Giant... on T4.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2014, 11:00:00 pm by Kirian »
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ycz6

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #235 on: September 17, 2014, 11:27:35 pm »
0

Edit:  OK, I take it back.  The highlight was my Deathlord pulling out a Warlock's Mountain Giant... on T4.
To be fair, that is usually when Warlocks play Mountain Giant in constructed.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #236 on: September 18, 2014, 12:08:16 am »
0

I went with BK... and went 2-3.  Alas.

Highlight now of my current (3-2) Mage.  I go first against a Priest

M1: Pass
P1: Coin, Amani Berseker
M2: Swamp Ooze (should take out the Berserker, right?)
P2: PW:S, PW:S, kill Ooze.

With no taunts in hand, I couldn't kill the thing until I topdecked a FB... by which point I was already hosed.  Just amazing.

Edit:  OK, I take it back.  The highlight was my Deathlord pulling out a Warlock's Mountain Giant... on T4.

I can commiserate, I've had a Deathlord pull an opponent's Ragnaros in Arena. :(
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #237 on: September 18, 2014, 12:45:06 am »
0

It seems like I have a thing for Azure Drake, play topdecked Holy Nova, because I've been saved by that combo for the second time, both of which were times it was my only out.

Also the first time I killed someone by making their Acolyte of Pain draw an extra card to get them into fatigue damage faster. Wasn't expecting it to happen in an arena game, but I guess that happens against a deck with Lay on Hands + Hammers + 2 Acolytes.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #238 on: September 18, 2014, 01:03:58 am »
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It seems like I have a thing for Azure Drake, play topdecked Holy Nova, because I've been saved by that combo for the second time, both of which were times it was my only out.

Also the first time I killed someone by making their Acolyte of Pain draw an extra card to get them into fatigue damage faster. Wasn't expecting it to happen in an arena game, but I guess that happens against a deck with Lay on Hands + Hammers + 2 Acolytes.

The best is Preist vs. Priest where you fatigue them with their Northshires.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #239 on: September 18, 2014, 01:24:38 am »
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I've been having trouble with Rogue in arena. It seems to be my worst class.

I just started this arena run, currently 1-0. Any comments on the draft?
http://arenamastery.com/GWJM

6. Panda > Magi. Panda is really good, one of the best 2-drops. It's good on turn 2, and unlike many other 2-drops, it can create some great value plays late game. Magi is meh.
10. BGH > Faceless imo, but it's close. Neither has that many great targets in arena, but are never really bad. But I think BGH is a blowout more often and saves you against the stuff you can otherwise never deal with in arena.
11. Speaking of which, Mercenary = great
13. Mad Sci > Dancing Swords, maybe. None of these are too good, but I really don't like Dancing Swords...
21. Farseer > Shiv. It's a good card vs a bad one. There's really no considerations that can change this.
26. Wolfrider > Grizzly, slightly. Maybe with the number of Ringleaders you have, you want the cheap taunt though...
27. Crusader > Merc
28. Crusader > Champ. Seriously, it's the third best neutral common imo behind only Sen'jin and Yeti. It's so hard to not get value out of it. Champ needs to go to turn 7, and Merc has some drawbacks, but there are very few things that deal well with Crusader (Among commons, I think it's just Bomber, Arcane Missiles, and Earth Shock).
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #240 on: September 18, 2014, 01:25:53 am »
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This deck has been pretty fun, 3-0 so far. I do wish I had had an Amani Berzerker or 2, I passed one up early for the Spectral Knight, but how was I supposed to know this deck was going to be so aggro? Even then, Spectral is still probably better because it's hard to remove, meaning it's very likely to put in damage.

I pretty much auto pick Spectral Knight. He's better than Yeti I think, possibly the best neutral common for arena. He has so much impact on the board, he's almost AoE.

Spectral is great for tempo decks. If you have board advantage, he's nearly unremovable.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #241 on: September 18, 2014, 01:29:32 am »
0

The choice I'm currently looking at:  Black Knight vs. Cairne vs. VanCleef.  I don't think I've ever had three actually good legendaries available to choose from...

I think it has to be Cairne. Black Knight is a bit situational, and Van Cleef doesn't do the amazing things he does in constructed. He's usually just a 4/4 for 3 and not on turn 3 unless you Backstab. Good but not great.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #242 on: September 18, 2014, 09:43:37 am »
0

I've been having trouble with Rogue in arena. It seems to be my worst class.

I just started this arena run, currently 1-0. Any comments on the draft?
http://arenamastery.com/GWJM

6. Panda > Magi. Panda is really good, one of the best 2-drops. It's good on turn 2, and unlike many other 2-drops, it can create some great value plays late game. Magi is meh.
10. BGH > Faceless imo, but it's close. Neither has that many great targets in arena, but are never really bad. But I think BGH is a blowout more often and saves you against the stuff you can otherwise never deal with in arena.
11. Speaking of which, Mercenary = great
13. Mad Sci > Dancing Swords, maybe. None of these are too good, but I really don't like Dancing Swords...
21. Farseer > Shiv. It's a good card vs a bad one. There's really no considerations that can change this.
26. Wolfrider > Grizzly, slightly. Maybe with the number of Ringleaders you have, you want the cheap taunt though...
27. Crusader > Merc
28. Crusader > Champ. Seriously, it's the third best neutral common imo behind only Sen'jin and Yeti. It's so hard to not get value out of it. Champ needs to go to turn 7, and Merc has some drawbacks, but there are very few things that deal well with Crusader (Among commons, I think it's just Bomber, Arcane Missiles, and Earth Shock).
Thanks for the analysis. Had I picked Mercenary I over Farseer, I would have been more comfortable picking crusader over Merc. I picked Champion > crusader because I was worries I had too few late game cards. I feel late game is important to consider in Arena.

But yeah, Crusader is one of my favourite neutral commons.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 09:44:52 am by markusin »
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #243 on: September 18, 2014, 11:35:32 am »
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Id Pick champion over crusader there as well.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #244 on: September 20, 2014, 03:51:59 am »
0

It seems like I have a thing for Azure Drake, play topdecked Holy Nova, because I've been saved by that combo for the second time, both of which were times it was my only out.

Also the first time I killed someone by making their Acolyte of Pain draw an extra card to get them into fatigue damage faster. Wasn't expecting it to happen in an arena game, but I guess that happens against a deck with Lay on Hands + Hammers + 2 Acolytes.

It keeps happening, it just happened for the 3rd time, 2nd time in this arena run. What is going on.

Edit: Ended 8-3 against a Paladin that managed to stabilize just in time, thanks to a 4/12 Malygos body I couldn't kill. (Well, technically I could after he dropped Stormwind Champion, but killing that was more important.) Pack gave me Baron Geddon, it's all good.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2014, 04:31:08 am by Titandrake »
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Kirian

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #245 on: September 23, 2014, 11:01:18 pm »
0

http://arenamastery.com/bm8L

Mage at 1 HP, I've been pinging her for one damage at a time because none of my minions are sticking and/or I'm drawing spells.

Mage plays two Ice Barriers. :(

Also:  Deathlord pulls a Molten Giant.  Two games later, Deathlord pulls an Ironbark Protector.  I think Deathlord just isn't the best idea in arena...
« Last Edit: September 23, 2014, 11:12:49 pm by Kirian »
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #246 on: September 27, 2014, 04:08:20 pm »
0

http://arenamastery.com/bm8L

Mage at 1 HP, I've been pinging her for one damage at a time because none of my minions are sticking and/or I'm drawing spells.

Mage plays two Ice Barriers. :(

Also:  Deathlord pulls a Molten Giant.  Two games later, Deathlord pulls an Ironbark Protector.  I think Deathlord just isn't the best idea in arena...

Ping doesn't trigger Ice Barrier...

Deathlord is a hard card to evaluate because of its strange and uncertain effect on tempo. It can often come out even on cards, but the tempo effect really depends on the board state. If you have other minions that the Deathlord is protecting, it can give you a great amount of initiative in choosing trades, and stay up for multiple turns. In that case, it can buy you more than the 2 mana worth of tempo its stats might suggest (2/8 taunt would be a (bad) 5-drop). But when it dies you immediately give back a little more than 3, maybe 3.5 mana of tempo on average -- the average value of a minion omitting battlecry (though sometimes it's an Ironbark or Giant...). Really the important thing is the delay before it dies. You can't play it if they can kill it the turn it comes out, or it's really bad, so you really want a deck that can gain an early tempo advantage.
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Kirian

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #247 on: September 27, 2014, 04:56:54 pm »
0

http://arenamastery.com/bm8L

Mage at 1 HP, I've been pinging her for one damage at a time because none of my minions are sticking and/or I'm drawing spells.

Mage plays two Ice Barriers. :(

Also:  Deathlord pulls a Molten Giant.  Two games later, Deathlord pulls an Ironbark Protector.  I think Deathlord just isn't the best idea in arena...

Ping doesn't trigger Ice Barrier...

It does if you're a Rogue or Druid.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #248 on: September 27, 2014, 06:32:28 pm »
+1

It also does if Ice Barrier is actually Ice Block.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #249 on: September 27, 2014, 10:40:50 pm »
0

I'm still in shock from this one.  Playing a Priest with an OK draft.  Up against a druid.

Druid plays Nourish for crystals on T5.  Then Innervate--Deathwing on T6.

I manage to get DW down to ~4 HP by sacrificing minions... and he plays Young Brewmaster on DW on T9.

I draw and play Mana Wraith.  OK, theoretically safe from Deathwing until the Wraith dies... but I'm at 6 health after healing.

Starfire to the face.  Next turn... Starfire to the face.

Holy.  Fuck.

Edit:  You know, I say "OK" draft, and then I realize I got offered exactly zero PW:S, SW:P or SW:D the whole draft.  So maybe it wasn't so hot.

(I went 1-3)
« Last Edit: September 27, 2014, 11:12:43 pm by Kirian »
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EgorK

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #250 on: September 29, 2014, 07:04:37 pm »
+2

So I understand that I am late to the party, but I finally got 12 wins, even 12-1. Last 3 games I played against very same hunter, ended up 2-1 vs him (btw he played just outright bad. Through first 2 games he saw my only secret was mirror entity and still played geddon into it last game). Me previous best result was 7

Frankly I did not thought it was that good of a draft. Granted, I got 2 fs, but otherwise - single fireball, no poly, no elems, only card draw is through azures. On the other hand I had quite high mana curve, so I was not in top deck mode through most of the games. Seems like I was lucky I've got my few early game cards against agro opponents
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Jorbles

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #251 on: September 29, 2014, 07:16:54 pm »
0

So I understand that I am late to the party, but I finally got 12 wins, even 12-1. Last 3 games I played against very same hunter, ended up 2-1 vs him (btw he played just outright bad. Through first 2 games he saw my only secret was mirror entity and still played geddon into it last game). Me previous best result was 7

Frankly I did not thought it was that good of a draft. Granted, I got 2 fs, but otherwise - single fireball, no poly, no elems, only card draw is through azures. On the other hand I had quite high mana curve, so I was not in top deck mode through most of the games. Seems like I was lucky I've got my few early game cards against agro opponents

Congrats! I still haven't gotten 12 wins yet (I think my record is 10?).
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #252 on: September 29, 2014, 09:45:04 pm »
0

So I understand that I am late to the party, but I finally got 12 wins, even 12-1. Last 3 games I played against very same hunter, ended up 2-1 vs him (btw he played just outright bad. Through first 2 games he saw my only secret was mirror entity and still played geddon into it last game). Me previous best result was 7

Frankly I did not thought it was that good of a draft. Granted, I got 2 fs, but otherwise - single fireball, no poly, no elems, only card draw is through azures. On the other hand I had quite high mana curve, so I was not in top deck mode through most of the games. Seems like I was lucky I've got my few early game cards against agro opponents

Congrats! I still haven't gotten 12 wins yet (I think my record is 10?).

9 here. I seriously think that fireball is not a winning factor in a good raft. I've had multiple decks with enough fireballs and Flamestrikes and still lose. My last mage draft I lost to players over investing in a board, and I would have won had I drawn a single flamestrike (I had 2).
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #253 on: September 30, 2014, 01:16:56 am »
0

So I understand that I am late to the party, but I finally got 12 wins, even 12-1. Last 3 games I played against very same hunter, ended up 2-1 vs him (btw he played just outright bad. Through first 2 games he saw my only secret was mirror entity and still played geddon into it last game). Me previous best result was 7

Frankly I did not thought it was that good of a draft. Granted, I got 2 fs, but otherwise - single fireball, no poly, no elems, only card draw is through azures. On the other hand I had quite high mana curve, so I was not in top deck mode through most of the games. Seems like I was lucky I've got my few early game cards against agro opponents

Congrats! I still haven't gotten 12 wins yet (I think my record is 10?).

9 here. I seriously think that fireball is not a winning factor in a good raft. I've had multiple decks with enough fireballs and Flamestrikes and still lose. My last mage draft I lost to players over investing in a board, and I would have won had I drawn a single flamestrike (I had 2).

My Paladin arenas have been much better than my Mage arenas on average, I think because the Paladin 4 cost cards are almost all 2 for-1s. Truesilver = 2 dead things. Hammer = 3 Damage + 1 Card back so you trade 1-for-0. Consecrate = general board clear. Blessing isn't always a 2 for 1, but often has potential to be. For Mage, if you have to play your Fireball or Poly turn 4, you're still only trading 1 for 1. They're still excellent cards mind you - your 4 mana can kill practically anything, but it's a mana advantage, not a card advantage. Stuff like Water Elemental is great, to the point where I almost prefer it over Fireball.

Mage is ridiculous if you can get to an even board state, because your spells and hero power are great at efficiently shutting down your opponent's board. Otherwise, you're relying on the Flamestrike. Whereas with Paladin, you can't kill big things as easily, but for everything else you can gain enough card advantage that it doesn't matter, while still keeping enough tempo to win early as well.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #254 on: September 30, 2014, 01:17:10 am »
0

My record is also still 10.  I have been doing worse lately, probably through not actually putting as much thought into playing as perhaps I ought to.
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ycz6

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #255 on: September 30, 2014, 04:43:07 am »
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Holy shit, what a draft. I actually started tearing up in laughter during the string of picks from 10-15.

Full deck (Not pictured: 1x Earth Shock):
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #256 on: October 01, 2014, 09:32:51 am »
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My Paladin arenas have been much better than my Mage arenas on average, I think because the Paladin 4 cost cards are almost all 2 for-1s. Truesilver = 2 dead things. Hammer = 3 Damage + 1 Card back so you trade 1-for-0. Consecrate = general board clear. Blessing isn't always a 2 for 1, but often has potential to be. For Mage, if you have to play your Fireball or Poly turn 4, you're still only trading 1 for 1. They're still excellent cards mind you - your 4 mana can kill practically anything, but it's a mana advantage, not a card advantage. Stuff like Water Elemental is great, to the point where I almost prefer it over Fireball.

Mage is ridiculous if you can get to an even board state, because your spells and hero power are great at efficiently shutting down your opponent's board. Otherwise, you're relying on the Flamestrike. Whereas with Paladin, you can't kill big things as easily, but for everything else you can gain enough card advantage that it doesn't matter, while still keeping enough tempo to win early as well.

I would say Paladin relies on board control much more than Mage does. You need some minion on the board to get value from Argent Protector or Blessing of Kings or Blessing of Might or Avenge or hero power. Paladin is all about getting board control from low drops, or turn 4 swings (Truesilver), and then snowballing. If you lose board control, you can find yourself in more trouble than you would be with Mage. You can't play your blessings or put a divine shield on anything. And Hammer really isn't that great because it's only really able to kill 2-drops, which is bad for tempo, so it's not something you want to do when behind on the board.

Mage losing on the board can use spells and hero power to kill minions or just go yolo for the face. It's true that there aren't that many sources of card advantage for Mage, but that just means that if you don't draft a ton of damage spells to go aggro, you need to draft big guys more highly. For example, given the choice between Grizzly and War Golem, Paladin takes the Grizzly for the earlier board control and Mage takes the War Golem for late game.
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ycz6

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #257 on: October 04, 2014, 09:14:47 pm »
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Easiest 12 wins of my life: http://arenamastery.com/Sobb

Good old Consecration.
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Titandrake

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #258 on: October 06, 2014, 11:29:58 pm »
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That moment when you get Sylvanas and Ragnaros in your Warlock draft.

This deck is actually pretty solid, the curve is very well balanced. Peaks at 3, a little fewer 4s, then just Sylvanas + Rag at the high end, which lets me use hero power a lot.
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ycz6

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #259 on: October 07, 2014, 03:16:14 am »
+2

I just pulled off Shadow Madness -> Youthful Brewmaster in arena o_o

On a Sen'jin Shieldmasta, no less
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KingZog3

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #260 on: October 08, 2014, 09:17:25 pm »
+2

I did it. 12 wins. Underwhelming golden cards (Leper Gnome and Upgrade), but 265 gold isn't too bad.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #261 on: October 09, 2014, 12:14:42 am »
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Gratz.
Any gold rare is a good result, imo. It's at least 100 dust, which at some point is better than a pack. You used to get them half the time for 9 wins but now it seems they show up much less frequently. It still bothers me that it's possible to get non-gold commons on 12 win runs.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #262 on: October 09, 2014, 11:33:46 am »
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Gratz.
Any gold rare is a good result, imo. It's at least 100 dust, which at some point is better than a pack. You used to get them half the time for 9 wins but now it seems they show up much less frequently. It still bothers me that it's possible to get non-gold commons on 12 win runs.
According to the wiki for hearthstone arena, non-gold commons are not supposed to be a possible 12-win arena reward. At worst you get a golden common. Are you sure you've seen a golden common given at 12 wins recently?

I haven't reached 12 wins yet. My record is still 11 wins with a Paladin deck.
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Titandrake

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #263 on: October 09, 2014, 12:27:35 pm »
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Gold common at 12 wins can still happen, non-gold common shouldn't. It's in an official patch note that they took out non-gold common rewards at 12 wins.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #264 on: October 10, 2014, 12:39:12 am »
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Oh I didn't see that patch note. For sure I have received a non-gold common for 12 wins, but it was a while ago.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #265 on: October 11, 2014, 02:12:07 am »
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Holy crap, apparently 2 wins in arena is Zoo Central. Just played these two consecutive opponents:

T1: Coin, Knife Juggler
T2: Undertaker, Flame Imp
T3: Harvest Golem
T4: Demonfire his Flame Imp to kill my Violet Teacher, tap
T5: Dire Wolf Alpha, kill me

T1: Coin, Worgen Infiltrator, Blood Imp
T2: Echoing Ooze, Soulfire, the Blood Imp procs on the Ooze so he has two 1/3s
T3: Argent Squire, tap, Voodoo Doctor
T4: Soulfire with empty hand, tap

Fortunately by T5 I had a Blood Imp of my own and a Fen Creeper out, so I was able to make the comeback. But still, damn. Flashbacks to the constructed meta a few months ago.
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KingZog3

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #266 on: October 11, 2014, 07:09:57 am »
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Holy crap, apparently 2 wins in arena is Zoo Central. Just played these two consecutive opponents:

T1: Coin, Knife Juggler
T2: Undertaker, Flame Imp
T3: Harvest Golem
T4: Demonfire his Flame Imp to kill my Violet Teacher, tap
T5: Dire Wolf Alpha, kill me

T1: Coin, Worgen Infiltrator, Blood Imp
T2: Echoing Ooze, Soulfire, the Blood Imp procs on the Ooze so he has two 1/3s
T3: Argent Squire, tap, Voodoo Doctor
T4: Soulfire with empty hand, tap

Fortunately by T5 I had a Blood Imp of my own and a Fen Creeper out, so I was able to make the comeback. But still, damn. Flashbacks to the constructed meta a few months ago.

Personally I have never been impressed with Warlock in arena. My runs have always been bad, and mostly so have my opponents' decks unless they get a draft as you talked about here that is very much like a real zoo deck.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #267 on: October 12, 2014, 12:19:01 am »
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Hrm, another 11-3 run. I can't get past that 11-win hump. I was a Shaman this time tough. I got 3 Southsea Deckhands in the pack ???
http://arenamastery.com/f5NI.
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #268 on: October 12, 2014, 11:52:55 pm »
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Just had a terrible 0-3 run as a Shaman...only one elemental, no spirit wolves, no shocks...Lame.

Then, my pack had a rare (Mind Control Tech), a golden rare (Crazed Alchemist), and a Leeroy.

So that's nice.  :)
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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #269 on: October 13, 2014, 11:59:52 am »
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My current Paladin run deck -- right now I'm at 5-1 with it.

I'm just extremely lucky to have gotten this, right?  Tirion, 4 Guardian of Kings', 2 Consecrates, 2 swords etc?  Obviously I need to survive to late game.  I've won a few of these games after dropping to less than 5 health and then dropping a Guardian of Kings turn after turn.

Thoughts?  I'll prob screw this up, but let's see how it goes =)

1 Light's Justice
1 Zombie Chow
2 Acidic Swamp Ooze x2
2 Bluegill Warrior
2 Faerie Dragon
2 Ironbeak Owl
2 Mad Bomber
3 Aldor Peacekeeper
3 Earthen Ring Farseer
3 Harvest Golem
4 Truesilver Champion x2
4 Blessing of Kings
4 Consecration x2
4 Ancient Brewmaster
4 Dark Iron Dwarf
4 Defender of Argus
5 Frostwolf Warlord
5 Sludge Belcher
5 Spectral Knight
5 Spiteful Smith
6 Argent Commander
6 Boulderfist Ogre
7 Guardian of Kings x4
8 Tirion Fordring
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theory

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #270 on: October 13, 2014, 12:47:15 pm »
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Another 12-win run: http://arenamastery.com/1PkG  This one is sandwiched in between a 0-3 and a 1-3, amusingly.

Final game: http://www.twitch.tv/10b5/c/5278437
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Arena General Discussion
« Reply #271 on: October 13, 2014, 06:18:52 pm »
+1

My current Paladin run deck -- right now I'm at 5-1 with it.

I'm just extremely lucky to have gotten this, right?  Tirion, 4 Guardian of Kings', 2 Consecrates, 2 swords etc?  Obviously I need to survive to late game.  I've won a few of these games after dropping to less than 5 health and then dropping a Guardian of Kings turn after turn.

Thoughts?  I'll prob screw this up, but let's see how it goes =)