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Author Topic: Constructed General Discussion  (Read 134013 times)

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Haddock

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #1025 on: August 08, 2016, 11:50:37 am »
+1

So.  Purify.  Thoughts?

It makes me think that the devs really don't know what they're doing. Or they're making priest te gimmick class, but then they should admit it. Like instead of lying about "there's a deck with priest no one knows about", just say "this is a gimmick class"

Even if it's a gimmick, that effect isn't worth 2 mana. Wailing Soul's battlecry is pretty comparable (arguably more powerful) and its stats are almost par for the course for its cost. Purify is just an extremely awful card.
It would be questionable at 1 mana.  At that point it's PW:shield but with a silence rather than +2 health.  93% of the time, you'd rather have the health, considering how short life is.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #1026 on: August 08, 2016, 02:54:41 pm »
0

From this interview:
http://www.pcgamer.com/mike-donais-on-one-night-in-karazhan-whether-priest-really-has-a-problem-and-if-fiery-war-axe-is-the-best-card-in-hearthstone/2/

"I don’t know that a small set [like One Night in Karazhan] is enough to move Priest from class number nine to class number one, but hopefully it’ll give the Priest some new stuff to try out and explore."

I think what they really wanted to say was they aren't sure Priest isn't going to be as bad as they though they'd be after this expansion given what we know now about the cards Priest got.

Jeez, do they plan to make a card that gives silenced minions a Flamestrike Deathrattle or what?
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popsofctown

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #1027 on: August 08, 2016, 03:32:49 pm »
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No.  Fiery War Axe is the best card in the game.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #1028 on: August 08, 2016, 03:49:35 pm »
0

No.  Fiery War Axe is the best card in the game.

I think they base these kinds of assessments given winrate after play. Maybe Tirion tops War Axe in that metric statistically.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #1029 on: August 08, 2016, 04:03:48 pm »
0

They sure do, and it's extremely concerning.  There's an awful lot of correlation/causation conflation going on.  There is a huge difference between assessing the impact of a 2 drop that is critical glue in keeping a creature-light control strategy together and a blind, naive conclusion that just because midrange paladin decks that haven't conceded before they draw their Tirion are probably winning, Tirion is a more meaningful card.  It's not.  Sunwalker would get 3/4ths of the same stats in a way that Heroic Strike could not.


Back in beta they decided Al-Akir didn't need two more points of health because he had one of the highest on-draw winrates in the game.  Ok, yeah, drawing anything that you are not able to mulligan in search of is correlated with winning!  Two points of health definitely would be more interesting at this point, and the theorycrafting even back at that point would have suggested the same thing.

They need rely on statistics in a purer more appropriate way, "what impact on win % does it have for the card to be present in the decklist?".  With FWA I'm sure that statistic is absurdly in favor of FWA, far more than Tirion.  An exclusion of FWA means you're five beers in, an exclusion of Tirion means maybe you're playing a tier 1.8 face paladin.  There's a huge difference in those implications.
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blueblimp

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #1030 on: August 08, 2016, 04:35:45 pm »
0

So.  Purify.  Thoughts?
It seems bad as-is but I think some people are underestimating how strong it would be at 1 or (especially) 0 mana.

At 1 mana:
Ancient Watcher combo is 3 mana 4/5
Eerie Statue combo is 5 mana 7/7, nearly as big as Fel Reaver and without the downside

At 0 mana:
Argent Watchman combo is 2 mana 2/4
Ancient Watcher combo is 2 mana 4/5
Eerie Statue combo is 4 mana 7/7 (no overload!)

In Kripp's video he claimed that the card would be marginal even at 0 mana, and I _really_ disagree with that. It would be crazy at 0 mana. People complain about Flamewreathed Faceless being a "4 mana 7/7" already and that has 2 overload. Plus at 0 mana, you can cycle it for free whenever you have a minion in play that isn't hurt by silence.

At 1 mana it might be OK. It's weird to me that they would print the card at 2 mana. It's obviously too weak for 2 mana. If it would be too strong at 1 mana, just don't print the card.

Overall the ONIK cardpool is disappointing, given that the Naxx/BRM/LOE cardpools were all fairly playable and interesting.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #1031 on: August 08, 2016, 04:53:27 pm »
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I agree that it shouldn't be 0 mana, if only because a 0 mana cantrip is an auto-include in every deck as long as you have minions that you don't mind silencing, let alone something that you actively want to silence. At 1 mana, it still wouldn't be playable, I think.
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #1032 on: August 08, 2016, 05:00:04 pm »
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In Kripp's video he claimed that the card would be marginal even at 0 mana, and I _really_ disagree with that. It would be crazy at 0 mana. People complain about Flamewreathed Faceless being a "4 mana 7/7" already and that has 2 overload. Plus at 0 mana, you can cycle it for free whenever you have a minion in play that isn't hurt by silence.

I agree that it would be crazy at 0 mana, but still, keep in mind that something being a 2 mana combo makes it a lot worse.
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blueblimp

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #1033 on: August 08, 2016, 05:10:17 pm »
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In Kripp's video he claimed that the card would be marginal even at 0 mana, and I _really_ disagree with that. It would be crazy at 0 mana. People complain about Flamewreathed Faceless being a "4 mana 7/7" already and that has 2 overload. Plus at 0 mana, you can cycle it for free whenever you have a minion in play that isn't hurt by silence.

I agree that it would be crazy at 0 mana, but still, keep in mind that something being a 2 mana combo makes it a lot worse.
It's only sort-of a 2 card combo because although yeah you need to connect the cards, the Purify part replaces itself, so you've only spent 1 card net. For example, compare "Ancient Watcher Purify" to "Innervate Chillwind Yeti" (which back in classic was one of the most feared openers).

But yeah, the requirement to connect might make it fine at 1 mana. The combos are strong at 1 mana but not crazy.
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markusin

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #1034 on: August 08, 2016, 07:58:35 pm »
0

In Kripp's video he claimed that the card would be marginal even at 0 mana, and I _really_ disagree with that. It would be crazy at 0 mana. People complain about Flamewreathed Faceless being a "4 mana 7/7" already and that has 2 overload. Plus at 0 mana, you can cycle it for free whenever you have a minion in play that isn't hurt by silence.

I agree that it would be crazy at 0 mana, but still, keep in mind that something being a 2 mana combo makes it a lot worse.
It's only sort-of a 2 card combo because although yeah you need to connect the cards, the Purify part replaces itself, so you've only spent 1 card net. For example, compare "Ancient Watcher Purify" to "Innervate Chillwind Yeti" (which back in classic was one of the most feared openers).

But yeah, the requirement to connect might make it fine at 1 mana. The combos are strong at 1 mana but not crazy.

It would be interesting if it was 3 or 4 mana but drew 2 cards instead of 1. At least then it would fit a special role while still being somewhat combo dependent as Priest cards tend to be.

I still feel this set is giving a good amount of stuff to use in experiments overall.
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markusin

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #1035 on: August 09, 2016, 08:02:12 am »
0

So, Purify is so bad that, according to Ben Brode's developer insight, Purify will not show up in Arena at all.

#ArenaPriestsMatter

Source:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot7nlHXPLqU
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Haddock

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #1036 on: August 09, 2016, 08:07:51 am »
+1

In Kripp's video he claimed that the card would be marginal even at 0 mana, and I _really_ disagree with that. It would be crazy at 0 mana. People complain about Flamewreathed Faceless being a "4 mana 7/7" already and that has 2 overload. Plus at 0 mana, you can cycle it for free whenever you have a minion in play that isn't hurt by silence.

I agree that it would be crazy at 0 mana, but still, keep in mind that something being a 2 mana combo makes it a lot worse.
It's only sort-of a 2 card combo because although yeah you need to connect the cards, the Purify part replaces itself, so you've only spent 1 card net. For example, compare "Ancient Watcher Purify" to "Innervate Chillwind Yeti" (which back in classic was one of the most feared openers).

But yeah, the requirement to connect might make it fine at 1 mana. The combos are strong at 1 mana but not crazy.

It would be interesting if it was 3 or 4 mana but drew 2 cards instead of 1. At least then it would fit a special role while still being somewhat combo dependent as Priest cards tend to be.

I still feel this set is giving a good amount of stuff to use in experiments overall.
This is actually a pretty decent idea.  Giving Priest 3 mana draw 2 silence a friendly minion works fine.  Sure it's (almost) strictly better than Arcane Intellect, but who cares?  Priest needs the boost.
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blueblimp

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #1037 on: August 22, 2016, 02:21:42 am »
0

Reynad's Arcane Giant Warrior is fun if you like spell-heavy combo decks like Miracle Rogue and pre-nerf Patron Warrior.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #1038 on: August 22, 2016, 07:19:35 am »
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I took an old Yogg Mage deck and subbed in Arcane Giants for the Spell discover 6 cost minion and it is doing decently, I suppose, definitely better than before, anyhow.
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KingZog3

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #1039 on: August 22, 2016, 02:33:00 pm »
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I tried The new giant in a spell/Yogg mage deck and they seemed quite good. No idea if they are competitive, but you can easy make them cost less than 4, and then have a large tempo turn. Having tempo huge minions in a spell heavy deck is actually very useful.
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markusin

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #1040 on: August 22, 2016, 03:48:22 pm »
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I tried The new giant in a spell/Yogg mage deck and they seemed quite good. No idea if they are competitive, but you can easy make them cost less than 4, and then have a large tempo turn. Having tempo huge minions in a spell heavy deck is actually very useful.

I'm curious if the Arcane Giants have a spot in my Token Druid. I'm also trying Arcane Anomaly in that deck. Arcane Anomaly does the job of baiting 2 mana removal at least.
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KingZog3

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #1041 on: August 22, 2016, 05:25:40 pm »
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I tried The new giant in a spell/Yogg mage deck and they seemed quite good. No idea if they are competitive, but you can easy make them cost less than 4, and then have a large tempo turn. Having tempo huge minions in a spell heavy deck is actually very useful.

I'm curious if the Arcane Giants have a spot in my Token Druid. I'm also trying Arcane Anomaly in that deck. Arcane Anomaly does the job of baiting 2 mana removal at least.

That one also has potential. Not sure its better than current 1drops though. But if in the next sets they stop printing crazy 1 drops, it'll be really good
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markusin

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #1042 on: August 23, 2016, 08:54:40 am »
0

I tried The new giant in a spell/Yogg mage deck and they seemed quite good. No idea if they are competitive, but you can easy make them cost less than 4, and then have a large tempo turn. Having tempo huge minions in a spell heavy deck is actually very useful.

I'm curious if the Arcane Giants have a spot in my Token Druid. I'm also trying Arcane Anomaly in that deck. Arcane Anomaly does the job of baiting 2 mana removal at least.

That one also has potential. Not sure its better than current 1drops though. But if in the next sets they stop printing crazy 1 drops, it'll be really good

Yeah I don't know how they are supposed to make 1 drops that can hold off Mana Wyrm or Tunnel Trogg without being the next Mana Wyrm or Tunnel Trogg themselves.

Arcane Anomaly becomes formidable once buffed with PotWild/OldGodWisps or whatever else you find with Raven Idol because it just keeps getting tougher. Innervate works well with it too. At any rate it's more early game for Druid decks that don't want Enchanted Raven.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #1043 on: August 24, 2016, 12:20:06 am »
0

Finally have two Ice Blocks, two Doomsayers, and Malygos... time for classic Freeze Mage!

Only played one test casual game, but it was absolutely delightful having 1 health left and one-shotting a Shaman with a full board and 26 health.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #1044 on: September 20, 2016, 11:12:09 pm »
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Yesterday, I felt like making a dragon synergy deck. I looked at the dragon synergy cards and decided I liked the warrior's dragon synergy card best of the class specific ones. So I chose warrior to make the deck with. Then I pretty much just threw in a bunch of dragons and dragon synergy cards. I noticed most of the dragons have good stackable battlecry effects, so I added Bran Bronzebeard. That deck is now 4-0. I'm kinda surprised it's did so well when I put so little thought into it.

Today though, my quest says to play hunter. One of the most frustrating things to happen when playing hunter is have a paladin heal himself constantly (he had two lay on hands, two forbidden healing, and ragnaros lightlord -who I killed the turn after it was played with the help of hunter's mark). After drawing out the game a long time and slowly wearing me down, he played Anyfin can happen which summoned two of the murlocs who buff other murlocs and the one little charge murloc which had 6 damage because of the two buffing guys and that was enough to finish me off.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 11:13:32 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
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Haddock

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #1045 on: September 21, 2016, 05:27:54 am »
0

Yesterday, I felt like making a dragon synergy deck. I looked at the dragon synergy cards and decided I liked the warrior's dragon synergy card best of the class specific ones. So I chose warrior to make the deck with. Then I pretty much just threw in a bunch of dragons and dragon synergy cards. I noticed most of the dragons have good stackable battlecry effects, so I added Bran Bronzebeard. That deck is now 4-0. I'm kinda surprised it's did so well when I put so little thought into it.

Today though, my quest says to play hunter. One of the most frustrating things to happen when playing hunter is have a paladin heal himself constantly (he had two lay on hands, two forbidden healing, and ragnaros lightlord -who I killed the turn after it was played with the help of hunter's mark). After drawing out the game a long time and slowly wearing me down, he played Anyfin can happen which summoned two of the murlocs who buff other murlocs and the one little charge murloc which had 6 damage because of the two buffing guys and that was enough to finish me off.
Yeah, the Murloc/healy Paladin is a decent deck with a lot of sustain and endgame burst.  I suspect that to beat it with hunter you want to build a much more aggressive deck.   You want him to be all but dead before he can play any of his big heal spells/Lightlord.
If you look up some Face Hunter lists you should be able to find something decent.
Disclaimer: I don't think Face Hunter is ACTUALLY that good any more, but it probably does better than midrange hunter against murloc paladin specifically.
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KingZog3

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #1046 on: September 21, 2016, 11:32:41 am »
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I've been playing a bunch of Theft Rogue, and it's very fun. Results are basically 50% winrate, but there is something satisfying about stealing tons of warlock cards, and renouncing darkness into hunter cards and actually getting decet beast synergy with those cards. All this at a 2 mana discount too.
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markusin

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #1047 on: September 21, 2016, 02:23:52 pm »
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I've been playing a bunch of Theft Rogue, and it's very fun. Results are basically 50% winrate, but there is something satisfying about stealing tons of warlock cards, and renouncing darkness into hunter cards and actually getting decet beast synergy with those cards. All this at a 2 mana discount too.

Yeah it's cool that Ethereal Peddler plays nice with cards like Renounce Darkness and Cabalist's Tome. Oh and I just realised it can work with Shifter Zerus too.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #1048 on: October 02, 2016, 03:17:29 pm »
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At the end of September, I made it past rank 18 for the first time! hooray!
But that was with a hunter. My favorite class is paladin.
I want to know which of these two Paladin decks you think is stronger:

Paladin 1: my 'strength in numbers' deck.
Argent Squire
Repentance
Argent Protector
Bilefin Tidehunter
Dire Wolf Alpha
Equality
Jeweled Scarab
Knife Juggler
Aldor Peacekeeper
Divine Favor
Razorfin Hunter (2x)
Seal of Champions
Sword of Justice
Consecration (2x)
Dragonling Mechanic (2x)
Hammer of Wrath
Infested Tauren
Keeper of Uldaman
Murloc Knight (2x)
Truesilver Champion
Azure Drake
Frostwolf Warlord (2x)
Mukla's Champion
Stormwind Champion
Ragnaros Lightlord

Paladin 2: my buffiing minions deck
Abusive Sergeant
Light's Justice
Repentance
Southsea Deckhand
A Light in the Darkness
Argent Protector
Bildfin Tidehunter
Flame Juggler
Sunfury Protector
Acolyte of Pain
Aldor Peacekeeper
Earthren Ring Farseer
Seal of Champions
Blessing of Kings (2x)
Consecration (2x)
Hammer of Wrath (2x)
Keeper of Uldaman
Sen'jin Shieldmasta
Silvermoon Portal
Truesilver Champion
Azure Drake (2x)
Prince Malzhezar (temporily here to try it out, don't remember what I had in its place before atm.)
Bog Creeper
Stormwind Champion
Ragnaros Lightlord
North Sea Kracken

Jorbles

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #1049 on: October 02, 2016, 11:35:40 pm »
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I think the first one is probably better, the second ones doesn't have durable enough minions to always have something to buff.
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