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Author Topic: Constructed General Discussion  (Read 270734 times)

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Grujah

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #775 on: December 12, 2015, 09:50:08 pm »
+1

Oh, and here is some writeup:
https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3wlgwq/just_hit_legend_with_renolock_decklist_tips/

Mirrors are fun, Jaraxxus is mirrorbreaker, but so is stupid golem/PO combo if you don't expect it.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #776 on: December 13, 2015, 02:52:23 pm »
0

I've changed the two cards necessary to bring my list to yours (-Brann,Kodo, +Farseer,Siphon Soul, also have Demonwrath) and am having fun with it.  The biggest problem I have is that I've only recently started using a mouse occasionally to play, and I find the interface much trickier.  I just died to triple PO on an imp after accidentally casting MC Tech instead of Twisting Nether against a Dr Boom.
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blueblimp

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #777 on: December 15, 2015, 05:02:33 pm »
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The new face shaman archetype is pretty nuts. I've seen it run over a few strong priests on stream (traditionally a natural enemy of both shaman and face decks) and having played it a bit myself at low ranks, it's so fast it can even outrace face hunter.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #778 on: December 15, 2015, 05:34:21 pm »
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The new face shaman archetype is pretty nuts. I've seen it run over a few strong priests on stream (traditionally a natural enemy of both shaman and face decks) and having played it a bit myself at low ranks, it's so fast it can even outrace face hunter.

Tell me it's cheap to build, because this sounds fun.

I need budget face decks for every class :D

werothegreat

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #779 on: December 15, 2015, 05:57:43 pm »
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The new face shaman archetype is pretty nuts. I've seen it run over a few strong priests on stream (traditionally a natural enemy of both shaman and face decks) and having played it a bit myself at low ranks, it's so fast it can even outrace face hunter.

Tell me it's cheap to build, because this sounds fun.

I need budget face decks for every class :D

No, it's not fun, it's annoying as hell.  Pretty much everyone has discovered that you can just Murloc rush face and win in 5-6 turns with any class.  Which is why I now run multiple taunts in every deck I play.
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blueblimp

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #780 on: December 15, 2015, 06:11:05 pm »
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The new face shaman archetype is pretty nuts. I've seen it run over a few strong priests on stream (traditionally a natural enemy of both shaman and face decks) and having played it a bit myself at low ranks, it's so fast it can even outrace face hunter.

Tell me it's cheap to build, because this sounds fun.

I need budget face decks for every class :D

No, it's not fun, it's annoying as hell.  Pretty much everyone has discovered that you can just Murloc rush face and win in 5-6 turns with any class.  Which is why I now run multiple taunts in every deck I play.
It's not a murloc deck. Everyone tried murlocs the week that the new murloc cards came out and discovered that murloc decks remain terrible.

The key new elements are Finley (to replace your useless hero power) and Tunnel Trogg (basically Shaman's version of Mana Wyrm, and makes your overload cards suck less). Then a bunch of burst damage and the usual face cards. Here's one popular decklist: http://www.liquidhearth.com/staff/monk/PowerRank/December2015_1/Luffy_Aggro_Shaman.png.
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qmech

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #781 on: December 15, 2015, 06:15:24 pm »
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No, it's not fun, it's annoying as hell.  Pretty much everyone has discovered that you can just Murloc rush face and win in 5-6 turns with any class.  Which is why I now run multiple taunts in every deck I play.

So you can just play Murlocs with any class, but it isn't usually going to be very consistent.

The new Face Shaman isn't a Murloc deck.  The key cards are Tunnel Trogg, which is the Mana Wyrm for Overload, a 1-drop that can grow into a formidable threat if it stays around for a few turns, and Doomhammer, which is 16 damage for 5 mana and turns Rockbiter Weapons into 1 mana Fireballs.  Sir Finely helps too.  I don't have a particular list to recommend as I've not found one I like yet, but you'll get lots of suggestions if you search for Face Shaman.  (If you find one with Unbound Elemental and Mechwarper it's probably not up to date.)  It's a cheap deck if you discount the double Doomhammer.

PPE: The list blueblimp linked looks fine.
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blueblimp

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #782 on: December 15, 2015, 09:00:36 pm »
+2

I wouldn't call murloc decks face decks anyway. Not every aggro deck is a face deck. Face decks are all about delivering damage directly from hand to your opponent's face. You don't plan to maintain board control, and any minions you run should be able to deliver face damage even if you don't control the board, or at least be OP and low-cost enough that it doesn't matter. That's why Leper Gnome is a staple of face decks, for example, because it nearly guarantees at least 2 damage to face.

Murloc decks are typically structured more like zoo decks. They aim to spam minions onto the board and maintain board control, hitting face with leftover minions. They don't have means to deliver significant damage directly from hand without board control.

Murloc decks are bad because, unlike zoo decks these days, their minions aren't sticky and are individually weak. Murlocs are highly vulnerable to common early removal and board control tools, like Zombie Chow and Frostbolt, as well as most AOE. Being dependent on board control to win _and_ being bad at holding board control is a bad combination. If you're having trouble against murloc decks, it's probably a sign that your deck has weak early game.

(None of this applies to Anyfin decks, which are typically combo decks, not aggro decks.)
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popsofctown

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #783 on: December 16, 2015, 01:43:52 am »
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Yeah, Coldlight Oracle is like the antithesis of a face deck.
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blueblimp

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #784 on: December 16, 2015, 04:52:52 am »
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Yeah, Coldlight Oracle is like the antithesis of a face deck.
Do Murloc tribal decks even run Coldlight Oracle? I see it more as a tool for mill and fatigue decks. The murloc tribal decks I've seen either don't have card draw or use other tools to draw cards (like Warlock Murloc using life tap).
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #785 on: December 16, 2015, 07:28:03 am »
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Yeah, Coldlight Oracle is like the antithesis of a face deck.
Do Murloc tribal decks even run Coldlight Oracle? I see it more as a tool for mill and fatigue decks. The murloc tribal decks I've seen either don't have card draw or use other tools to draw cards (like Warlock Murloc using life tap).

I run them in my Everyfin deck.  I'm not as sold on Ancestral Knowledge because the overkill kills.  I do take the Warlock hero power when offered, though.  Drawing is super important in getting the right cards in hard to overrun your opponent.
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Kirian

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #786 on: December 21, 2015, 02:56:02 am »
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Went up against what I'm pretty certain was this:

http://www.hearthhead.com/deck=140712/crimzigs-mill-rogue

Interesting mill/heal strategy.
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qmech

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #787 on: December 21, 2015, 07:04:14 am »
0

Went up against what I'm pretty certain was this:

http://www.hearthhead.com/deck=140712/crimzigs-mill-rogue

Interesting mill/heal strategy.

Brann is huge for Mill Rogue: you can easily Mill 8 cards in a turn for lethal.  Brann is fun all round, and even if you don't have a combo with him in hand he's a reasonable play on T3 as opponents often overreact and try to kill him at all costs.
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werothegreat

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #788 on: December 21, 2015, 02:51:27 pm »
+1

We are amused:

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #789 on: December 21, 2015, 04:19:53 pm »
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I am also vaguely amused that apparently the FoN/SR druid I was running a year ago is still high in the meta.
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KingZog3

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #790 on: December 21, 2015, 04:53:45 pm »
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I am also vaguely amused that apparently the FoN/SR druid I was running a year ago is still high in the meta.

Well the entire class is based on that combo. Even the aggro druids run it. Druid deck I think have changed the least in a year, only adding new cards to fill in spots that had to be taken up by weaker cards before.
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qmech

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #791 on: December 22, 2015, 10:32:56 am »
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I am also vaguely amused that apparently the FoN/SR druid I was running a year ago is still high in the meta.

Well the entire class is based on that combo. Even the aggro druids run it. Druid deck I think have changed the least in a year, only adding new cards to fill in spots that had to be taken up by weaker cards before.

What was in Druid before Darnassus Aspirant?  I've been playing Midrange Druid for the first time recently and they fill a very useful anti-aggro spot.

I hear people saying that Druid is usually good because it can win against anything, which I'm starting to understand.  I've stolen more games than I can remember by topdecking combo and bursting someone down from 20+ if I've been left anything like a board.
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KingZog3

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #792 on: December 22, 2015, 10:49:50 am »
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I am also vaguely amused that apparently the FoN/SR druid I was running a year ago is still high in the meta.

Well the entire class is based on that combo. Even the aggro druids run it. Druid deck I think have changed the least in a year, only adding new cards to fill in spots that had to be taken up by weaker cards before.

What was in Druid before Darnassus Aspirant?  I've been playing Midrange Druid for the first time recently and they fill a very useful anti-aggro spot.

They were slower. In general you might have 2 Druid of the Claw, an MC Tech, Maybe a spot for Kezan during GvG. As it stand I only run 1 Aspirant. I found the Ramp from them to be only 50% successful and very dead in my hand late game.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #793 on: December 22, 2015, 11:45:44 am »
+1

Yeah, Coldlight Oracle is like the antithesis of a face deck.
Do Murloc tribal decks even run Coldlight Oracle? I see it more as a tool for mill and fatigue decks. The murloc tribal decks I've seen either don't have card draw or use other tools to draw cards (like Warlock Murloc using life tap).

fuck, i told myself 9 times not to write "coldlight oracle" instead of "coldlight seer", and still did it.  Blizz why you name cards this wayyyyyy
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werothegreat

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #794 on: December 22, 2015, 12:34:15 pm »
0

I gave in to the dark side and threw together a SMORC Warrior to finish a quest.  Rank 17, bitches.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #795 on: December 22, 2015, 12:56:06 pm »
0

On Midrange Druid, here's what I'm running right now.

Quote
Innervate x2
Wild Growth x2
Darnassus Aspirant x2
Wrath x2
Savage Roar x2
Big Game Hunter
Shade of Naxxramas x2
Piloted Shredder x2
Keeper of the Grove x2
Swipe x2
Druid of the Claw
Sludge Belcher x2
Azure Drake x2
Emperor Thaurissan
Force of Nature x2
Ancient of Lore x2
Dr Boom

The list I started with had Sir Finley over the second Belcher.  That led to some great moments—20+ armour against a Freeze Mage—but I took it out after deciding that ramp was more important than playing something T1.  What changes are worth considering?
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Kirian

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #796 on: December 22, 2015, 02:07:06 pm »
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On Midrange Druid, here's what I'm running right now.

Quote
Innervate x2
Wild Growth x2
Darnassus Aspirant x2
Wrath x2
Savage Roar x2
Big Game Hunter
Shade of Naxxramas x2
Piloted Shredder x2
Keeper of the Grove x2
Swipe x2
Druid of the Claw
Sludge Belcher x2
Azure Drake x2
Emperor Thaurissan
Force of Nature x2
Ancient of Lore x2
Dr Boom

The list I started with had Sir Finley over the second Belcher.  That led to some great moments—20+ armour against a Freeze Mage—but I took it out after deciding that ramp was more important than playing something T1.  What changes are worth considering?

I'll post what I'm running just for comparison, but whether or not mine is better, I don't know.  I'm also missing a lot of commonly used legends.

Quote
Innervate x2
Wild Growth x2
Wrath x2
Savage Roar x2
Healing Touch
Big Game Hunter
Shade of Naxxramas
Piloted Shredder x2
Keeper of the Grove x2
Swipe x2
Druid of the Claw x2
Sludge Belcher
Azure Drake
Sunwalker
Emperor Thaurissan
Force of Nature x2
Ancient of Lore x2
Ancient of War x2
Ragnaros

I don't have Aspirant and I'm not sure it's much worth it... most of the time it won't last a turn and therefore won't be worth much in terms of curve-bending.  It means that this deck is very high-cost though with the two AoW--but those two will often be useful to offset Dr. Win.
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Jorbles

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #797 on: December 24, 2015, 02:05:51 pm »
0

Elise in Mill Rogue gives Mill Rogue a whole new win condition and lets it just draw lots of cards without caring. You can Mill your opponents or you can find the Golden Monkey.

Replace all those silly cards that just let you survive with card draw cards! Starseeker Rogue:

Key Cards:
Elise
Brann
Antique Healbot x 2
Prep x 2
Vanish x 2
Coldlight Oracle x 2
Gang Up x 2
Shadowstep x 2

Your favourite ways to draw cards:
Azure, Loot Horder, Sprint (I just use 1), Gnomish, Novice, Bloodmage

A little board clear:
Blade Flurry, Deadly Poison

Some more survivability/removal as needed:
Backstab, Eviscerate, Sap, Refreshment Vendor, Deathlord

I'm still playing around with what the right balance of card draw to other cards is, but that's the archetype. Find the monkey or just mill your opponents to death.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #798 on: December 24, 2015, 10:58:50 pm »
0

So, I'm clearly missing something. But what's the strength of the Golden Monkey thing? It seems like a lot of hoops to jump through, just to transform your deck into all legendary cards. Nothing guarantees youll get _good_ legendary cards, though, right? And you could just put the good legendary cards in your deck to start with?

Like I said, I know I'm the one missing something; I'm just curious what it is.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #799 on: December 25, 2015, 12:07:57 am »
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So, I'm clearly missing something. But what's the strength of the Golden Monkey thing? It seems like a lot of hoops to jump through, just to transform your deck into all legendary cards. Nothing guarantees youll get _good_ legendary cards, though, right? And you could just put the good legendary cards in your deck to start with?

Like I said, I know I'm the one missing something; I'm just curious what it is.

1. It's super fun. 2. The Golden monkey is a really good minion on its own. 3. In a control matchup that's very slow, say priest vs priest, having so many big drops that they can't deal with will win you the game. It doesn't matter that Skeleton knight is a "bad card" normally, it's only bad because it takes up a slot. At some point he's fine because he's huge and has to be dealt with, and they run out of removal.
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