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Author Topic: Constructed General Discussion  (Read 270485 times)

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markusin

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #575 on: August 29, 2015, 09:19:53 am »
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Mysterious Challenger has seemed pretty good from what I've seen. I'm also seeing it a LOT on ladder, to the point where I'm considering adding flare to my hunter deck to combat it. I'm not sure the deck is prevalent enough to justify it, but it seems like one of the most common early TGT decks.

Hunter seems to have a pretty easy time against that deck in general, so I'm not sure if the Flare is necessary.
Secret Paladin does make teaching in Kezan Mystic more justified.

It's good that Paladin secrets matter now. The class still never got much value from Mad Scientist unlike Mage and Hunter. That didn't seem fair.

You know all this time I thought you were only allowed a max of 3 secrets at a time. Was this ever the case?
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KingZog3

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #576 on: August 29, 2015, 12:08:05 pm »
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No, there's a Troledn video where a mage has like 9 or more secrets out. All the Mage ones and all the Paladin ones.
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Grujah

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #577 on: September 02, 2015, 05:37:46 pm »
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I am playing this:
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/322470-tgt-midrane-paladin

few matches later 2x Quarter is probably too much, but other that that works great, got very high win rate with it right now.

(I am seeing hunters and paladins mostly, btw).
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markusin

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #578 on: September 02, 2015, 07:16:02 pm »
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I am playing this:
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/322470-tgt-midrane-paladin

few matches later 2x Quarter is probably too much, but other that that works great, got very high win rate with it right now.

(I am seeing hunters and paladins mostly, btw).
I like how you dropped Murloc Knight for Argus here. Particularly since you have Justicar.  It gets hard to really benefit from Murloc Knight when you eat up so much space, and getting 2 guys for 2 mana a turn when you want is already really grindy.

I was toying with a similar deck before the new season. I don't have Tirion, but I used Kel'Thuzad. It's not the same at all, but you get a unique kind of benefit with Kel'Thuzad. I also tried to make Gormok work in that deck. Probably you can get away with just 2 Truesilver for 4 mana 4 damage, but Gormok works well against some popular 4 Health minions like Azure Drake, Murloc Knight, and Savage Combatant. Too bad for Gormok that Paladin has an easy time activating his effect yet they already have Quartermaster to take advantage of that.
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Grujah

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #579 on: September 02, 2015, 07:27:59 pm »
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Yah, murloc eats space, usually only makes a 2/2 or worse, is slow and needs to be protected, and it sits awkwardly in hand sometimes as you really don't want to play him naked on board. Also I don't really need that many token generators. Its one of my favourite cards but I had to cut it. Argus helps with argresion and is rarely dead.

I am thinking of Gormok, he's high on my "to make list" but I'd have to dust stuff. I've already made Justicar (Great here and ok but not amazing in Warrior) and Varyan which I got to play exactly 0 times so far, kinda regreting that one.
I'll have to play for a bit with "what if this card was gormok instead" in my head to see how often he works.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 07:29:08 pm by Grujah »
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popsofctown

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #580 on: September 02, 2015, 07:33:45 pm »
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gormok is awful
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Grujah

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #581 on: September 02, 2015, 07:59:31 pm »
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Why?

Wait, 4 other minions, not 4 minions. Worse than I though, but ..
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popsofctown

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #582 on: September 02, 2015, 08:27:42 pm »
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It is a steaming pile of winmoar
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Grujah

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #583 on: September 02, 2015, 08:30:39 pm »
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In paladin, 3 1/1 tokens and a minibot isn't really a formidable boardstate that you are unlikely to lose from.

It's actually a pretty often board state turn 4 against non-ping classes.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 08:33:49 pm by Grujah »
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markusin

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #584 on: September 02, 2015, 09:47:00 pm »
+1

It is a steaming pile of winmoar
Having 4+ minions doesn't mean you're winning. Not if they're cheap tokens. Often, you get a board state like that for a turn or 2 before your opponent can make the play to take it all away with AoE. Cards like Gormok and Loatheb help solidify your position in different ways if you claimed the board early. Paladin is really good at claiming the board early what with MfB and Divine Shield. Gormok in particular punishes opponents who try to defend against your tokens with a big taunt.

It's just Paladin may not need Gormok because Paladin has other cards that fulfill its function (Truesilver, Quartermaster). As far as activating the effect goes, Paladin can do so pretty reliably. It helps that the hero power spawns a token. He's more a fun card that is ever so satisfying when he works.

I'd say don't go out of your way to craft him because he's not a star by any means. If you're lucky enough to open him like I did then give him a go.

I opened Avianna the other day. It actually feels kind of disappointing because I don't see Avianna as being so great. It's basically a cheap 5/5 on Turn 10 unless you have spare Innervates.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 09:48:12 pm by markusin »
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popsofctown

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #585 on: September 06, 2015, 12:36:30 am »
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In paladin, 3 1/1 tokens and a minibot isn't really a formidable boardstate that you are unlikely to lose from.

It's actually a pretty often board state turn 4 against non-ping classes.
I wish track-o-bot could tell me what my winrate against shielded minibot into muster is.  I guarantee you it's below 40% across all decks though..
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #586 on: September 06, 2015, 05:35:32 am »
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I broke the general faceless rule of never copying a minion that costs less than 5...freaking murloc knight!  Worked nicely as a ramp Druid, got siltfin and drew a card when he removed the copy of the knight.
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markusin

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #587 on: September 06, 2015, 02:23:48 pm »
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I broke the general faceless rule of never copying a minion that costs less than 5...freaking murloc knight!  Worked nicely as a ramp Druid, got siltfin and drew a card when he removed the copy of the knight.
You know, until I got Siltfin from Murloc Knight I thought it's effect was draw a card when you summon a Murloc. It's actually draw a card when a Murloc dies, which is great for when Murloc Knight gets removed.
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Grujah

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #588 on: September 06, 2015, 11:02:47 pm »
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I've just had a control warrior mirror that I lost (barely) where I've dealt 71 damage to my opponent. Stupid Justicar.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #589 on: September 07, 2015, 01:39:59 am »
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I broke the general faceless rule of never copying a minion that costs less than 5...freaking murloc knight!  Worked nicely as a ramp Druid, got siltfin and drew a card when he removed the copy of the knight.
Mm.  There's a was a tournament many metas ago that I entered with a double faceless Warrior, largely for the purpose of facelessing my own armorsmiths to seal games against hunter. 

You can easily copy something costing less than 5 that's key to the matchup. 
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Jorbles

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #590 on: September 17, 2015, 03:01:31 pm »
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Chairs was curious about my Flood Paladin deck so I thought I'd post about it here, instead of in the more general thread.

From memory it looks like this:
1s:
1 x Avenge
2 x Competetive Spirit
2 x Argent Squire
1 x Southsea Deckhand
2 x Blessing of Might
2s:
1 x Echoing Ooze
2 x Shielded Minibots
2 x Knife Jugglers
3s:
2 x Silverhand Regents
2 x Muster
1 x Coghammer
2 x Divine Favor
4s:
2 x Truesilver Champion
2 x Consecrate
2 x Murloc Knight
2 x Defender of Argus
5s:
2 x Quartermasters

This decks pretty aggressive, the main goal is to flood the board and then flood it again and then flood it again. You want to be playing cards from turn 1. An ideal start might be something like:
Turn 1:
A secret or an Argent Squire
Turn 2:
Minibot or two 1 drops (Blessing of Might is fine to play on anything with a Shield or an Ooze from this point onwards).
Turn 3:
Any of your 3s or a 2 and a 1 drop. Even Divine Favour situationally can be good turn 3 because often control decks just hoard cards and might have 7 or 8 cards to your 2 or 3 at the point you play it allowing you to draw 5 cards for 3 mana.

Basically what you do with this deck is force your opponents to have either AOE answers or taunts from about turn 3 to turn 7 and if they don't, you take board control and run them over. You don't always have to hit into the taunts because you'll often be able to buff yourself into a better situation the turn after the taunt is played. A taunted creature can only remove one of your minions if you don't attack into it and your opponent has to guess what you have in hand: removing a shield is correct if you have Buffs, a Knife Juggler is correct if you have Muster, or a Silverhand Recruit is correct if you have Quartermaster. Complicating this is if you have a secret out they have to play around Avenge or Competetive Spirit. It's really hard for them to guess correctly which threat they should remove.

If they have answers all the way to turn 8 or 9 you run out of steam usually, but you can get back into it with a Divine Favour sometimes.

I feel like this is far from perfect so some advice on tweaking follows:
-If you remove any of the weapons swap out the Southsea Deckhand (with less than 5 weapons you're probably better off with an Abusive or Leper Gnome). I'm still tinkering with whether having this extra 1 drop is better than having a more expensive card (like a second Ooze or a Creeper, or even a Shredder), but it seems to be working so far so I don't want to mess with it and having a bit more reach in a Paladin deck seems like a good thing.
-Some people use Solemn Vigil instead of Divine Favour in Flood decks, but I think Divine Favour is really good against some of the more common Control matchups (Patron, Dragon Priest, Handlock).
-Gormak would get a lot of work done in this deck, but I don't have him. I think Justiciar Trueheart would be too slow. I tried Darkbane and couldn't make her fit.
-BGHs or Aldor Peacekeepers are probably pretty good in this deck though I haven't found I've needed them, you don't usually remove things with this deck, you make your opponents remove things or they fall behind too far behind to catch up.
-A second Ooze and a single Blessing of Kings would be viable without changing the way the deck plays much.
-You could replace the Ooze with a Creeper if you wanted to and I don't think it would change much either.
-Equality might be a good way to make this deck have another turn or two to win, but I personally prefer playing as if I'll always control the board by having lots of minions out.
-I tried making space for Warhorse Trainers, but there wasn't enough room for them in the crowded 3 spot. Without the Regents and Musters you don't have enough ways to flood the board with Recruits for the Trainers to take advantage.
-When tinkering I would not recommend removing the following for anything: Quartermaster, Muster, Minibot, Defender of Argus (this is a crucial card in aggro matchups), Murloc Knight or Consecrate.
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werothegreat

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #591 on: September 18, 2015, 06:46:32 pm »
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So, I've been opening packs and crafting, and I've getting my collection a little better.  I wanted to get youse guys's thoughts on my current Mage and Shaman builds:

Mage:

Arcane Missles x2
Mirror Image
Mana Wyrm x2

Arcane Explosion
Flamecannon
Frostbolt x2
Unstable Portal x2
Sorcerer's Apprentice

Arcane Intellect
Effigy
Mirror Entity x2

Fireball x2
Polymorph
Dalaran Aspirant
Piloted Shredder x2
Water Elemental x2

Blizzard x2
Flamestrike x2

Ragnaros

North Sea Kraken

I've won 3 games a row with this on rank 18.  I also have a second Sorc. App., and a Fallen Hero.  The only other secret I have is Vaporize, and I don't have Mad Scientist yet.  EDIT: Should I swap NSK out for Dr. Boom?

Shaman:

Earth Shock
Forked Lightning
Lightning Bolt x2
Rockbiter Weapon

Ancestral Knowledge
Crackle
Flametongue Totem x2
Totem Golem x2

Hex x2
Lightning Storm x2
Tuskarr Totemic x2
Unbound Elemental x2

Defender of Argus
Piloted Shredder x2
Windspeaker

Bloodlust
Thunder Bluff Valiant x2

Fire Elemental x2

Dr. Boom

Ragnaros

I've only played two casual games with this - lost to a very aggressive Hunter, won against a rather timid Priest.  I'm unsure about leaving in the Windspeaker, and wondering if I should have more than one Bloodlust.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2015, 06:48:01 pm by werothegreat »
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Jorbles

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #592 on: September 18, 2015, 07:01:59 pm »
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Some of it depends on what cards you have, so take what you will from that:
Mage:
With all the spells you have I'd definitely make space for a second Sorceror's Apprentice. Flamewakers and Mad Scientists would be good if you've unlocked those wings. I am just going to assume you don't have these cards, but Archmage Antonidas and the new mage Legendary would probably be better than Kraken here. You could also try out a Pyroblast in its place if you have that as a finisher.

Azure Drakes are classic in this style of mage deck as well if you have those yet (they're only Rares so they'd be easier for you to achieve if you don't have them yet as opposed to some of the other more expensive recommendations).

Candidates for things that you could take out are 1 Flamestrike, Arcane Explosion and the secrets (I don't think they're worth it without Mad Scientists).

Shaman:
Bearing in mind that I don't play Shaman in Constructed much, this deck looks pretty solid, but I'd replace a Lightning Bolt with Crackle. Windspeaker could probably be replaced with a second Defender of Argus. I'm not sure about two Bloodlusts, but I think with that style of deck you probably want one.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #593 on: September 18, 2015, 07:05:43 pm »
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Some of it depends on what cards you have, so take what you will from that:
Mage:
With all the spells you have I'd definitely make space for a second Sorceror's Apprentice. Flamewakers and Mad Scientists would be good if you've unlocked those wings. I am just going to assume you don't have these cards, but Archmage Antonidas and the new mage Legendary would probably be better than Kraken here. You could also try out a Pyroblast in its place if you have that as a finisher.

Azure Drakes are classic in this style of mage deck as well if you have those yet (they're only Rares so they'd be easier for you to achieve if you don't have them yet as opposed to some of the other more expensive recommendations).

Candidates for things that you could take out are 1 Flamestrike, Arcane Explosion and the secrets (I don't think they're worth it without Mad Scientists).

Shaman:
Bearing in mind that I don't play Shaman in Constructed much, this deck looks pretty solid, but I'd replace a Lightning Bolt with Crackle. Windspeaker could probably be replaced with a second Defender of Argus. I'm not sure about two Bloodlusts, but I think with that style of deck you probably want one.

Thanks!  I have neither Flamewakers nor MS's, unfortunately, nor any of the Mage legendaries.  I had Pyroblast in the top spot, but KingZog recommended I swap that out for NSK.  I can probably craft up some Azure Drakes in a couple days or so.

Looks like I need to craft another DoA and another Crackle!
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #594 on: September 18, 2015, 07:11:06 pm »
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...

Thanks!  I have neither Flamewakers nor MS's, unfortunately, nor any of the Mage legendaries.  I had Pyroblast in the top spot, but KingZog recommended I swap that out for NSK.  I can probably craft up some Azure Drakes in a couple days or so.

Looks like I need to craft another DoA and another Crackle!

Maybe try switching back and forth between Pyro and NSK. See which you like more. I don't run Pyroblast in my mage deck, but I run Antonidas in the big spot next to Boom. Pyroblast seems better than NSK to me, but I might be wrong, I don't actually have lots of experience running either.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #595 on: September 18, 2015, 08:22:18 pm »
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...

Thanks!  I have neither Flamewakers nor MS's, unfortunately, nor any of the Mage legendaries.  I had Pyroblast in the top spot, but KingZog recommended I swap that out for NSK.  I can probably craft up some Azure Drakes in a couple days or so.

Looks like I need to craft another DoA and another Crackle!

Maybe try switching back and forth between Pyro and NSK. See which you like more. I don't run Pyroblast in my mage deck, but I run Antonidas in the big spot next to Boom. Pyroblast seems better than NSK to me, but I might be wrong, I don't actually have lots of experience running either.

Pyroblast is great if you've managed to whittle down your opponent to 10 Health by turn 10 or so.  If you haven't, it's a dead card in your hand, or else you feel really bad using it on a big minion, in which case you usually know you've lost already.

NSK can get rid of a decent-sized minion, provide board presence, and then usually provide almost as much damage on the next turn anyway.  Most people don't hang on to answers to a 9/7 by the time you use it.  And it's cheaper!
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #596 on: September 18, 2015, 10:39:16 pm »
+1

The higher in rank you climb, the more answers you'll see.  I'd take Boom over NSK.  Even if they BGH Boom, you get value from the bots.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #597 on: September 19, 2015, 03:07:48 am »
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Dr. Boom is such a huge presence that you really need a reason not to run him.  That might be because you're running an extremely tight combo (Patron), because you want to end your curve early (aggro) or occasionally because you don't want to introduce a BGH target (although as ashersky says, the Boombots are still far from worthless).
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #598 on: September 19, 2015, 02:21:32 pm »
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I didn't realize you weren't running Boom in your mage deck. Boom is better to run than NSK or Pyro for sure.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #599 on: September 19, 2015, 02:34:38 pm »
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I took out the Secrets and NSK, and slotted in another Sorcerer's Apprentice, a Polymorph: Boar, a Spellslinger, and Dr. Boom.
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