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Author Topic: Constructed General Discussion  (Read 270517 times)

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Jorbles

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #450 on: April 01, 2015, 07:42:27 pm »
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There's really no Control Hunter, right?

The closest is probably Midrange Hunter. The controlliest Midrangers might run big things like Boom, Sludge Belcher, Highmane, Shredders and Loatheb, but still tends to get wins off of strong starts and hitting the face. They just have some sticky bulky cards to rely on in the mid-to-late game.
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ashersky

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #451 on: April 01, 2015, 07:59:37 pm »
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There's really no Control Hunter, right?

The closest is probably Midrange Hunter. The controlliest Midrangers might run big things like Boom, Sludge Belcher, Highmane, Shredders and Loatheb, but still tends to get wins off of strong starts and hitting the face. They just have some sticky bulky cards to rely on in the mid-to-late game.

I was trying to come up with something that relied on early spells and taunts to make it to the end game...something with 2x Hunter's Mark, some of the direct damage spells, two Snipers to use hero power on minions, freezing traps...

The payoff ends up being Boom, Highmanes, and Godzilla or Krush, which doesn't feel like enough to win.

Something like these for early control:

2x Hunter's Mark
2x Annoy-o-Tron
2x Freezing Trap
2x Steamwheedle Sniper
2x Eaglehorn Bow

Middle control:
2x Houndmaster
2x 2/7 turtle guy
2x Senjin or something
2x King of Beasts
2x Sludge Belchers

Big guns:
2x Highmane
1x Boom
1x Godzilla

And then mixing in the damage spells for removal (random minion death or explosive shot or more traps?).  I just don't think it works.
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Jorbles

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #452 on: April 01, 2015, 08:29:03 pm »
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I think what you've labelled as your early control is mostly mid-to-late control. Hunter's Marks need another damage source to finish something off. Steamwheedle Snipers usually get killed before you can use the power if you play them before turn 4, Annoy o Trons can only remove things when combined with Hunter's Marks or when up against Face Hunter. Freezing Trap works early, but it also works late. Ditto for Hunter's Mark. I'd expect early control to look more like Arcane Shot, Explosive Trap, that new Hunter version of Dark Bomb whenever it gets released, Glaivezooka, and Eaglehorn. Probably Mad Scientist to dig for free Traps while trading to remove something. Probably need Animal Companions too, they're really too good not to include in any Hunter variant and you definitely need more beast synergy if you want to run KoB and Houndmaster.
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ashersky

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #453 on: April 01, 2015, 09:05:12 pm »
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I think what you've labelled as your early control is mostly mid-to-late control. Hunter's Marks need another damage source to finish something off. Steamwheedle Snipers usually get killed before you can use the power if you play them before turn 4, Annoy o Trons can only remove things when combined with Hunter's Marks or when up against Face Hunter. Freezing Trap works early, but it also works late. Ditto for Hunter's Mark. I'd expect early control to look more like Arcane Shot, Explosive Trap, that new Hunter version of Dark Bomb whenever it gets released, Glaivezooka, and Eaglehorn. Probably Mad Scientist to dig for free Traps while trading to remove something. Probably need Animal Companions too, they're really too good not to include in any Hunter variant and you definitely need more beast synergy if you want to run KoB and Houndmaster.

The problem I'm seeing is that a lot of beasts suck as control (and work as aggro).  I mean, at the 1 and 2 mana level, there's not a lot to choose from -- basically just Croc, right?  Everything else has 1 health.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #454 on: April 01, 2015, 09:07:05 pm »
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Could just be I'm mislabeling the deck -- I'm talking about a deck that stalls its opponent by having lots of answers to minions (removal, taunts) while keeping myself alive until the big guns come out.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #455 on: April 02, 2015, 11:26:42 am »
+1

Annoy-o-tron and Freezing trap are not control cards. They are tempo cards. They don't actually kill anything. That said, you probably can't play real heavy control (where you run your opponent out of cards), so you may want Freezing traps anyway.
You probably want Wild Pyromancer. It has a good combo with Hunter's Mark, and with Gahzrilla. And you probably want Tracking too...
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ycz6

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #456 on: April 02, 2015, 02:37:46 pm »
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I think what you've labelled as your early control is mostly mid-to-late control. Hunter's Marks need another damage source to finish something off. Steamwheedle Snipers usually get killed before you can use the power if you play them before turn 4, Annoy o Trons can only remove things when combined with Hunter's Marks or when up against Face Hunter. Freezing Trap works early, but it also works late. Ditto for Hunter's Mark. I'd expect early control to look more like Arcane Shot, Explosive Trap, that new Hunter version of Dark Bomb whenever it gets released, Glaivezooka, and Eaglehorn. Probably Mad Scientist to dig for free Traps while trading to remove something. Probably need Animal Companions too, they're really too good not to include in any Hunter variant and you definitely need more beast synergy if you want to run KoB and Houndmaster.

The problem I'm seeing is that a lot of beasts suck as control (and work as aggro).  I mean, at the 1 and 2 mana level, there's not a lot to choose from -- basically just Croc, right?  Everything else has 1 health.
Bloodfen Raptor, Haunted Creeper, Dire Wolf: Alpha, Scavenging Hyena, and Hungry Crab all have 2 health, though the wisdom of putting each of those in a control deck varies.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #457 on: April 04, 2015, 04:39:35 am »
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Annoy-o-tron and Freezing trap are not control cards. They are tempo cards. They don't actually kill anything. That said, you probably can't play real heavy control (where you run your opponent out of cards), so you may want Freezing traps anyway.
You probably want Wild Pyromancer. It has a good combo with Hunter's Mark, and with Gahzrilla. And you probably want Tracking too...

What's the difference between tempo and control (and mid-range)?

Doesn't Control control the tempo of the game until they can win with the big bashers late?
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #458 on: April 04, 2015, 05:43:02 am »
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Annoy-o-tron and Freezing trap are not control cards. They are tempo cards. They don't actually kill anything. That said, you probably can't play real heavy control (where you run your opponent out of cards), so you may want Freezing traps anyway.
You probably want Wild Pyromancer. It has a good combo with Hunter's Mark, and with Gahzrilla. And you probably want Tracking too...

What's the difference between tempo and control (and mid-range)?

Doesn't Control control the tempo of the game until they can win with the big bashers late?

I've understood that Control wins through card advantage, while Tempo wins through tempo advantage. At least that's how it is in MtG. It's a bit different in Hearthstone though since tempo advantage results in card advantage.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #459 on: April 04, 2015, 06:08:39 am »
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Annoy-o-tron and Freezing trap are not control cards. They are tempo cards. They don't actually kill anything. That said, you probably can't play real heavy control (where you run your opponent out of cards), so you may want Freezing traps anyway.
You probably want Wild Pyromancer. It has a good combo with Hunter's Mark, and with Gahzrilla. And you probably want Tracking too...

What's the difference between tempo and control (and mid-range)?

Doesn't Control control the tempo of the game until they can win with the big bashers late?

I've understood that Control wins through card advantage, while Tempo wins through tempo advantage. At least that's how it is in MtG. It's a bit different in Hearthstone though since tempo advantage results in card advantage.

Hmmm....so is my "control" warrior not really control?  Cheap minions and spells give me armor/trade for enemy minions.  In the middle it's bodies like sludge and maiden.  I eventually win with big baddies like Boom/Alex, etc.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #460 on: April 04, 2015, 10:06:06 am »
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Just opened Mogor. Does anyone run it?

Also, have the dust to craft a Legendary (or epics).  Suggestions?
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #461 on: April 04, 2015, 12:18:49 pm »
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Just opened Mogor. Does anyone run it?

Also, have the dust to craft a Legendary (or epics).  Suggestions?

Motor was tried but is ultimately too unpredictable. If also wait on crafting too see if the meta gets slower and then maybe craft some dragons or slower Legendaries.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #462 on: April 04, 2015, 02:27:09 pm »
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Annoy-o-tron and Freezing trap are not control cards. They are tempo cards. They don't actually kill anything. That said, you probably can't play real heavy control (where you run your opponent out of cards), so you may want Freezing traps anyway.
You probably want Wild Pyromancer. It has a good combo with Hunter's Mark, and with Gahzrilla. And you probably want Tracking too...

What's the difference between tempo and control (and mid-range)?

Doesn't Control control the tempo of the game until they can win with the big bashers late?

I've understood that Control wins through card advantage, while Tempo wins through tempo advantage. At least that's how it is in MtG. It's a bit different in Hearthstone though since tempo advantage results in card advantage.

Hmmm....so is my "control" warrior not really control?  Cheap minions and spells give me armor/trade for enemy minions.  In the middle it's bodies like sludge and maiden.  I eventually win with big baddies like Boom/Alex, etc.
When you win, how many cards does your opponents have in hand?
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blueblimp

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #463 on: April 04, 2015, 03:46:38 pm »
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In some matchups and situations, Control Warrior wins by Grom combo, sometimes by playing Alexstrasza first. It's a bit different from Control Priest, Control Paladin, and GvG-era Handlocks in that way, since those decks don't have access to the same burst. Although all constructed control decks I'm aware of do want card advantage in control mirrors, I don't know of a deck that is quite as focused on card advantage as a typical arena deck. In arena, forcing your opponent into top-decking mode before you is a pretty common way to win.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #464 on: April 04, 2015, 08:54:47 pm »
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What's the best class for a randomness fun deck?  I'm assuming Rogue, with Ogre Ninja?

I was just thinking of putting together all the RNG cards (bombers, 50% chance of attacking wrong, etc.) together for giggles.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #465 on: April 05, 2015, 12:15:26 am »
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What's the best class for a randomness fun deck?  I'm assuming Rogue, with Ogre Ninja?

I was just thinking of putting together all the RNG cards (bombers, 50% chance of attacking wrong, etc.) together for giggles.
Depends what kind of randomness you want.  Keep in mind that the biggest positive outlier random outcome is undoubtedly Holy Wrathing Molten Giant .
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Jorbles

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #466 on: April 05, 2015, 01:47:34 pm »
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Just opened Mogor. Does anyone run it?

Also, have the dust to craft a Legendary (or epics).  Suggestions?

I run it, but mostly because he's funny. I just put him in, in deck where I want big things, but don't have better things. He actually has a lot of defensive value, that isn't immediately apparent. 50% of attacks missing can screw your opponents chance at lethal over. That said he'll screw you up equally and BGH blows him up.

I do have a Rogue Control deck centred around Ogres (Brute, Ninja, Mogor) and Troggs (Burly Rockjaw, Troggzor) that I run him in for thematic purposes. I call it Thuglife and it is mostly about having big bodies to absorb spell damage and things that get advantage from your opponent relying on spells (Faerie Dragon, Troggs, Trade Prince Gallywick).
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #467 on: April 05, 2015, 07:07:01 pm »
+2

Ive gotten the most out of Grim Patron that anyone ever will. It included a huge frothing beserker, a warsong commander, Grim Patrons taking out Dr. Boom and Boom Bots, and a Battle Rage that drew 6 cards. All in 1 turn. So I think I'm done with Grim Patron for a while now as all situations with it now will be underwhelming.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #468 on: April 06, 2015, 12:35:02 pm »
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I will repeat that I speculate the best home for Mogor the Ogre to be Aggro Warrior, in place of (and in role of) Spellbreaker's position.
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Jorbles

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #469 on: April 06, 2015, 03:00:41 pm »
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I think he might actually be best in Wailing Soul Druid where you can use him to disrupt your opponents attacks and then Silence him to get a reliable attack off if he survives a turn (he often does just because opponents can't reliably attack him).
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #470 on: April 07, 2015, 08:39:54 am »
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Ive gotten the most out of Grim Patron that anyone ever will. It included a huge frothing beserker, a warsong commander, Grim Patrons taking out Dr. Boom and Boom Bots, and a Battle Rage that drew 6 cards. All in 1 turn. So I think I'm done with Grim Patron for a while now as all situations with it now will be underwhelming.

I trust you have not actually given up so soon. I am consistently getting overwhelming wins with a Grim Patron, Warsong, Berserker and enabling spells deck.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #471 on: April 07, 2015, 09:06:41 am »
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Ive gotten the most out of Grim Patron that anyone ever will. It included a huge frothing beserker, a warsong commander, Grim Patrons taking out Dr. Boom and Boom Bots, and a Battle Rage that drew 6 cards. All in 1 turn. So I think I'm done with Grim Patron for a while now as all situations with it now will be underwhelming.

I trust you have not actually given up so soon. I am consistently getting overwhelming wins with a Grim Patron, Warsong, Berserker and enabling spells deck.

I have not given up. I've been tinkering with different decks and I am also coming out with tons of wins. It's quite spectacular.
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Jorbles

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #472 on: April 07, 2015, 12:55:57 pm »
+1

After playing about 20 or so games with variations of Mill Rogue (Gang Up + Death Knight + Coldlight + Vanish + Antique Healbot + etc) I think it's A) one of the hardest decks to play B) not worth your time unless you really love the idea. When you win by fatigue it's incredibly satisfying, but usually people just concede if they see it's inevitable so you don't get the fun of killing them with it, which brings me to my next point, the games usually take a really long time, and you have to constantly play around big combos because your opponent will eventually draw their combo (unless you burn the key cards). The amount of stress of playing around FON + Savage x 2 constantly or double Enrage or whatever 20+ damage combo many decks can run, but rarely draw into is not for me.

The length of the games and the sheer number of cards in your hand at all times introduces so much room for error. Should you play an extra Coldlight to burn a card, but leave the Coldlight on the board? Do you need to play Loatheb RIGHT NOW to prevent the combo (and then again the turn after and again if possible)? Do you need to use your Vanish now or can you save it a turn to burn more cards? Is this the type of deck that runs Alexstraza? Should I play Gang Up on my Coldlight Oracle like usual or is this one of those edge case games where I should play it on a Death Knight or Healbot? They have nothing on the board, do I need a taunt out anyways? Should I avoid playing any Coldlights at all to try and win normally? These are the questions that plagued me while I tried to get a handle on Mill Rogue. There's so much more going on than in an aggro deck or a more typical control deck. I'm going back to the simplicity of aggro for a bit before reattempting to master this style of deck.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #473 on: April 07, 2015, 03:57:13 pm »
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I remember kinda feeling that way about Miracle Rogue once, when I was playing Miracle Rogue before Miracle Rogue was a tier 1 deck.  Would have been about a year and a month ago. Except the big difference is people didn't concede to deny you the gratifying part, no one knew about triple Leeroy because it wasn't an established deck, so even after taking 12 damage they didn't realize that they were going to take 18.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #474 on: April 07, 2015, 06:25:46 pm »
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On a whim, I decided to buy a couple of classic packs. Boom, one of them had Sylvanas. Finally got a nice all around filler for the 6 mana spot (well, Thaurissan works there too).
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