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Author Topic: Constructed General Discussion  (Read 270646 times)

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Dekryr

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #325 on: December 30, 2014, 09:15:38 pm »
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So I just opened a Malorne. What should I do with it? Is it a key card in any type of deck?

I'd keep it, just because it's a legendary. I'm not sure it fits into anything yet, but it's fun, and I think it'll be worth to have later.

Sorry to bring this back up, but I just came back to f.ds and found this forum.  ;D

Malorne is an amazing card in a super late game control Druid. Unfortunately, that deck is not yet viable. Druid doesn't have enough good removal to make a deck like that work. Compare druid's removal to the other very control type decks: Execute/Shield slam, Mind Control/Shadow word Death/Voljin, Equality, Siphon soul/Shadowflame a giant...Naturalize and Poison Seeds don't compete with any of those. Druid just doesn't have the tools to build a late game deck where Malorne would shine. Mid-range druid that wants to burst you with Force-Savage Roar is just so much better.
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KingZog3

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #326 on: December 30, 2014, 09:23:55 pm »
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So I just opened a Malorne. What should I do with it? Is it a key card in any type of deck?

I'd keep it, just because it's a legendary. I'm not sure it fits into anything yet, but it's fun, and I think it'll be worth to have later.

Sorry to bring this back up, but I just came back to f.ds and found this forum.  ;D

Malorne is an amazing card in a super late game control Druid. Unfortunately, that deck is not yet viable. Druid doesn't have enough good removal to make a deck like that work. Compare druid's removal to the other very control type decks: Execute/Shield slam, Mind Control/Shadow word Death/Voljin, Equality, Siphon soul/Shadowflame a giant...Naturalize and Poison Seeds don't compete with any of those. Druid just doesn't have the tools to build a late game deck where Malorne would shine. Mid-range druid that wants to burst you with Force-Savage Roar is just so much better.

Well I think it's better in mill druid, which is also not a thing yet but is at least strong enough to beat other control decks. In fact, a control druid is essentially a mill druid. Mill works by controlling the board, healing a lot, and burning a few cards from your opponent if they are control. It just needs a way to work against aggro decks before it really becomes viable.
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Jorbles

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #327 on: December 31, 2014, 01:29:46 am »
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So I just opened a Malorne. What should I do with it? Is it a key card in any type of deck?

I'd keep it, just because it's a legendary. I'm not sure it fits into anything yet, but it's fun, and I think it'll be worth to have later.

Sorry to bring this back up, but I just came back to f.ds and found this forum.  ;D

Malorne is an amazing card in a super late game control Druid. Unfortunately, that deck is not yet viable. Druid doesn't have enough good removal to make a deck like that work. Compare druid's removal to the other very control type decks: Execute/Shield slam, Mind Control/Shadow word Death/Voljin, Equality, Siphon soul/Shadowflame a giant...Naturalize and Poison Seeds don't compete with any of those. Druid just doesn't have the tools to build a late game deck where Malorne would shine. Mid-range druid that wants to burst you with Force-Savage Roar is just so much better.

What about Recycle? Recycle should be considered in the discussion, if we're talking Druid removal.
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Dekryr

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #328 on: December 31, 2014, 10:14:43 am »
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I forgot about recycle. It's tempo removal, so I'm not sure how good it is in a very control oriented deck. If the game is going to go long, you will see the recycled card again. Recycle probably fits better into a mid-range play style where the tempo can help you finish the game, which is what Druid already does very well, and I don't think Malorne fits in that deck.

I will admit that I didn't think about him as a good mill card, which he probably is. Mill is really the only control Druid deck that even kind of works right now. Mill runs those removals that I mentioned earlier (Poison Seeds and Naturalize), but the deck has to be a bit gimmicky to play around the weaknesses of those cards. Even with Malorne, I still think that mill doesn't quite have enough tools yet to be viable. It's closer than it was but I still think mid-range druid is better.

But if you want to use your Malorne, go ahead and build a mill deck. It seems like it would be fun to play and it is not terrible. I would probably try it out some if I had Malorne...or coldlight oracle...or grove tender...or tree of life. Ahh well.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #329 on: December 31, 2014, 12:32:33 pm »
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Mill is definitely viable, at least between ranks 5-10. May not get legendary but I would imagine it could get close. It clobbers priest and control warrior and has a chance against everything else.
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markusin

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #330 on: December 31, 2014, 01:01:59 pm »
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Mill is definitely viable, at least between ranks 5-10. May not get legendary but I would imagine it could get close. It clobbers priest and control warrior and has a chance against everything else.
I haven't tried control Priest or Warrior in awhile, but I imagine it clobbers them hard. Handlock looks beatable as a Mill druid too, because Mill Druid actually can run Poison Seeds and Tree of Life. Against aggro it can go either way. It's decent enough against aggro/Mech that those decks should consider building around them with stickier minions (think Harvest Golem and the piloted mechs over Mech Yetis).

I'm still not sure Malorne is the best you can get in Mill.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #331 on: December 31, 2014, 01:34:36 pm »
+1

Malorne doesn't really work towards the end game objective. You want heals, removal, and cards that mill, and nothing else -- Malorne doesn't fit into any of these categories. He's too slow to deal with aggro, and against control, they'll have tons of removal for him because what else are they going to use their removal on?

Edit: Getting a Malorne Mind Controlled or Sylvanas'd would be a disaster, as well. It could actually lose games on its own in Mill druid.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2014, 01:35:43 pm by Twistedarcher »
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markusin

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #332 on: December 31, 2014, 01:48:25 pm »
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Malorne doesn't really work towards the end game objective. You want heals, removal, and cards that mill, and nothing else -- Malorne doesn't fit into any of these categories. He's too slow to deal with aggro, and against control, they'll have tons of removal for him because what else are they going to use their removal on?

Edit: Getting a Malorne Mind Controlled or Sylvanas'd would be a disaster, as well. It could actually lose games on its own in Mill druid.
Malorne seems like a use-it-if-you-got-it option for Ramp Druid though. Ragnaros and Ancient of Lore are not cheap to craft.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #333 on: December 31, 2014, 02:09:50 pm »
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Yeah, it's probably good for ramp druid, especially vs. control matchups where you're likely to draw it multiple times.
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Kirian

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #334 on: December 31, 2014, 03:23:20 pm »
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Aggro... should I start just using aggro decks for questing?  Apparently they're pretty good in the meta, and of course are faster.
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KingZog3

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #335 on: December 31, 2014, 05:45:56 pm »
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Aggro... should I start just using aggro decks for questing?  Apparently they're pretty good in the meta, and of course are faster.

If you want to play more games, use aggro. Control decks are usually more interesting though, with more decisions to make.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #336 on: December 31, 2014, 06:28:06 pm »
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If you don't enjoy playing aggro, then don't play aggro. But there's a huge gradient of levels of aggressiveness you can play. There's face Hunter and face Rogue, then Mech decks with Jeeves, then Zoo with Leper Gnomes, then higher curve Zoo, then midrange Hunter and Mech decks with Azure Drake and Undertaker Priest, then secret Mage and normal midrange Druid, and then you're almost into control decks.
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Dekryr

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #337 on: December 31, 2014, 08:10:53 pm »
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Aggro... should I start just using aggro decks for questing?  Apparently they're pretty good in the meta, and of course are faster.

Depends. If you want to just get your quests done quickly then aggro will of course go faster. Unfortunately, the ladder is designed in such a way that if you want to move up the ladder quickly then aggro decks are much faster and get you many more games. If reaching legend is your goal, an aggro deck will get you there in less real time. It may take you less games with a really good control deck, but it will take you more actual hours to do it. HME gave a good rundown of the different types of aggro decks as well. Right now Hunter and Warlock - zoo are the 2 best aggro decks imo. I like mech-Mage as well, but some may argue it's not aggro, but it stills plays pretty quickly for laddering.

Edited to more accurately describe HME's good post.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 04:40:40 pm by Dekryr »
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #338 on: December 31, 2014, 10:37:33 pm »
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To clarify, I was listing all major kinds of decks from most aggro-y to less aggro-y. Different people are going to cut off what they call "aggro" at different points on the list, but the point is that there is quite a nice gradient to fit what ever level of aggressiveness suits you.
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popsofctown

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #339 on: January 05, 2015, 08:49:43 am »
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I cracked a Malganis, and I think you put at least one recombobulator in decks he's involved in. 

Never have I played with Nozdormu so much.
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Jorbles

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #340 on: January 05, 2015, 12:46:19 pm »
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I recently tried building a MechWarrior deck to quest with. Playing around with it I thought it would be a good Hobgoblin/Mech hybrid deck, but don't have any Hobgoblins to try it out with. Has anyone tried something using cards like the ones below?

Hobgoblins

Hobgoblin/Mech synergy:
Annoy-o-Tron
Warbot
Micro Machine
Cogmaster

Mech Synergy:
Mech Warper
Screwjank Clunker

Hobgoblin Synergy:
Acolyte of Pain
Armoursmith

General Warrior cards:
Frothing Berserker
Weapons to curve
Cruel Taskmaster
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Jorbles

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #341 on: January 12, 2015, 01:08:17 pm »
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Finally got a ramp druid deck to a point where it seems to work in ranked. I'm short an ancient of lore so I put in two Azure Drakes to fill it's spot until I can craft a second one.
0:
2 x Innervate
2:
2 x Wild Growth
2 x Wrath
1 x Robo Cub
3:
1 x BGH
1 x Grove Tender
4:
2 x Keeper of the Grove
2 x Swipe
5:
2 x Sludge Belcher
2 x Azure Drake
1 x Loatheb
2 x Antique Healbot
1 x Faceless Manip
6:
2 x Sunwalker
1 x Cairne
7+:
1 x Troggzor
1 x AoL
1 x AoW
1 x Malorne
1 x Kel Thuzad
1 x Cenarius

If I had another AoL I'd remove the Azures and put in AoL and maybe a Zombie Chow. I'd replace Kel for Ragnaros or Ysera if I could and AoW or Cairne for Sylvanas. If you have Force of Nature the combo with Savage Roar is probably a big improvement on this deck too.

A pretty flexible template though is Innervates, Wild Growth, Wrath, BGH, Swipes, Keepers, Antique Healbots, Sludge Belchers, AoLs and whatever big things you can throw into a Druid deck. This curve seems to work out pretty well.
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ashersky

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #342 on: January 12, 2015, 03:19:13 pm »
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Interesting take...why Sunwalkers over DotC?  I like the versatility of choosing charge.

I keep one FON+Roar in my deck, for burst.  I feel like Alex is pretty important, too.  I also don't run Grove Tender, Faceless, or Healbots, but do have 1 Healing Touch.
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Jorbles

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #343 on: January 12, 2015, 03:51:56 pm »
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Interesting take...why Sunwalkers over DotC?  I like the versatility of choosing charge.

I keep one FON+Roar in my deck, for burst.  I feel like Alex is pretty important, too.  I also don't run Grove Tender, Faceless, or Healbots, but do have 1 Healing Touch.

DotC does have versatility, but I don't think I'd ever use the 4/4 charge option in this deck. I've never played a game where I think that I would have chosen anything but Taunt. Sunwalkers seem more durable than DotC, primarily against Fireballs, but also against weapons.

As to your other suggestions Alex would be huge as would the FON+Roar combo, but I don't have either of those things. Grove Tender is a card I don't think is strictly necessary, but it seemed to fit in well at that point in the curve. I'd rather have a second healbot than a Healing Touch, and the Faceless is pretty good especially when against control because you can steal a copy of something before you kill it.
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ashersky

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #344 on: January 12, 2015, 04:32:34 pm »
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For reference, here's my deck compared to yours:

0:
2 x Innervate

2:
2 x Wild Growth
2 x Wrath  >>> 1 x Wrath
1 x Robo Cub

3:
1 x Healing Touch
1 x BGH
1 x Grove Tender
1 x Savage Roar
2 x Shade of Naxxramas


4:
2 x Keeper of the Grove
2 x Swipe
1 x Chillwind Yeti
1 x Sen'jin Shieldmaster


5:
2 x Druid of the Claw
2 x Sludge Belcher
2 x Azure Drake
1 x Loatheb
2 x Antique Healbot
1 x Faceless Manip


6:
1 x Force of Nature
2 x Sunwalker
1 x Cairne

7+:
1 x Troggzor
1 x AoL >>> 2 x AoL
1 x AoW
1 x Malorne

1 x Kel Thuzad
1 x Cenarius
1 x Dr. Boom
1 x Sneed's Old Shredder
1 x Alexstrasza


I used to run Loatheb and Maexxna, but they're a bit situational.  i could swap out Chillwind and Sen'jin for something -- possibly those or Healbots or something.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2015, 04:34:11 pm by ashersky »
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Jorbles

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #345 on: January 12, 2015, 05:10:07 pm »
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Having Alex might mean you don't need the second Healbot, but the fact that you have a Healing Touch makes me think you could swap the spell for a Healbot for positive effect. Your 7+ Legendaries seem better than mine, but I think it's just about which ones you own vs which ones I own.

The Shades are an interesting addition, how do you use them if you draw them early vs late? How do you use them vs aggro or control?

I don't think I'd consider taking Loatheb out of this deck. He's super good in any situation.
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ashersky

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #346 on: January 12, 2015, 05:53:39 pm »
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Having Alex might mean you don't need the second Healbot, but the fact that you have a Healing Touch makes me think you could swap the spell for a Healbot for positive effect. Your 7+ Legendaries seem better than mine, but I think it's just about which ones you own vs which ones I own.

The Shades are an interesting addition, how do you use them if you draw them early vs late? How do you use them vs aggro or control?

I don't think I'd consider taking Loatheb out of this deck. He's super good in any situation.

I honestly had never really thought about Healbot, as I wasn't running any real mech decks.  I could swamp him in for HT, since I'm never casting Healing Touch when 2 mana matters.

I've found the Shades to be key -- I'll basically mulligan everything but Innervate/Wild Growth to get them in my opening hand.  Innervated Shade on T1 or Coined on T2 is best, and I never use them until I can trade favorably or they are out of removal range for my opponent (generally 4/4 for Priest/Shaman/Mage to work around Shadow Word: Pain, Lightning Bolt, Frostbolt; 5/5 for Druid vs. Swipe).  They'll generally trade at least 2 for 1 (minion I slam into, plus the spell they burn to kill it, for example).  I think they are good value.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #347 on: January 12, 2015, 05:56:53 pm »
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I think Healbot is generally better than Healing Touch, since you're usually just healing yourself anyway. You might as well take the body.

I think Grove Tender is bad. It doesn't do anything. Might as well be Ogre Brute or Spider or Harvest Golem for better stats. It's possible the +mana benefits you, since you have more big minions, but I don't think it does enough. Shade is okay, but not great without Roar. It can be 3/3 vs aggresive decks and just sit till it outgrows cheap removal or is the right size to 2-for-1 vs control.
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Jorbles

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #348 on: January 12, 2015, 06:52:43 pm »
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I honestly had never really thought about Healbot, as I wasn't running any real mech decks.  I could swamp him in for HT, since I'm never casting Healing Touch when 2 mana matters.

I think it's good enough that it can be used in any control deck whether they have Mech synergies going on or not.

I think Grove Tender is bad. It doesn't do anything. Might as well be Ogre Brute or Spider or Harvest Golem for better stats. It's possible the +mana benefits you, since you have more big minions, but I don't think it does enough.

I can't really defend it as I have found it to be underwhelming. I thought it would be versatile and useful in ramp (either better cards to use the extra mana with or on average better cards to take advantage of the draw) but it is particularly bad against aggro (which is the decks biggest struggle) as you either give them more mana to play out their cards faster and most aggro decks have some way to draw cards anyways so you're usually just helping them kill you before your cards come online or you give them a card which gives them a better chance of drawing key removal cards. I'll probably swap it for a Shade or a Brute before I play this deck again.
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KingZog3

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #349 on: January 12, 2015, 09:19:40 pm »
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Grove tender is kind of like a 2mana 2/4. It's not a 3 drop. It's a 4 drop that lets you play a 2 mana card at the same time. Personally I've found it to be quite good. Certainly better than running Wild Growth.
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