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Author Topic: Constructed General Discussion  (Read 270524 times)

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ycz6

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #150 on: September 02, 2014, 02:14:27 am »
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Well, a variety of Deathrattle-themed decks are pretty popular in Ranked, with a Zoo variant and midrange/control Shaman being the most popular. I hear Beast-based Hunter decks are pretty good too.

I suppose you knew about those already, though.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #151 on: September 02, 2014, 02:26:55 am »
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I've seen some Murloc aggro decks, mostly Warlock, although the fact that I've seen them doesn't necessarily mean that they are good.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #152 on: September 02, 2014, 03:14:18 am »
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Yeah, I feel like "beast hunter" is a bit bigger than a theme, and I've see the murlocs on occasion.  Clearly there are flavor purposes to some of these cards, and some of them have built in synergy, but I'm not sure how great they are.

My take on the Warrior Pirate is currently:

1 Drops:
Upgrade! x2
Southsea Deckhand x2 (charge if weapon equipped)

2 Drops:
Fiery War Axe x2
Bloodsail Raider x2 (gain attack equal to weapon's attack)
Captain's Parrot x2

3 Drops:
Shield Block x2 (for draw)
Deathlord x2
King Mukla
Shade of Naxx
Southsea Captain x2 (+1/+1 to all Pirates)

4 Drops:
Death's Bite x2
Arathi Weaponsmith
Dread Corsair x2 (minus mana cost for weapon attack)
Kor'kron Elite x2

5 Drops:
Arcanite Reaper
Brawl
Captain Greenskin (+1/+1 to weapon)

6+ Drops:
Gorehowl
Alexstrasza


It's...okay...I feel like Mukla's a distraction, Shade of Naxx is lamish, and I'm not sold on my 5 drop choices.  I just find it hard to get finish opponents (and I don't own Leeroy).
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Titandrake

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #153 on: September 02, 2014, 03:44:32 am »
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For deathrattle-themed decks, there's a deck called Undertaker Priest that has been going around. See Kibler's decklists at http://www.liquidhearth.com/forum/hearthstone/465636-impact-defeats-kibler-in-sunshine-open for a sample version.

One nice thing about it is that many of the cards are either common or come from Naxxramus, so if you've finished Naxxramus you don't actually need much dust. Unfortunately, the 6-cost and above cards start getting a little pricy, and I don't think there's great replacements for Cairne or Sylvanas.
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KingZog3

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #154 on: September 02, 2014, 08:46:37 am »
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Pirate decks are pretty gimmicky. Cap. Greenskin has terrible stats, and you can't play him usually till much too late in the game. Raider is good, but most of the other pirates  are justn ot good enough.
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Kirian

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #155 on: September 02, 2014, 10:47:37 am »
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Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like 6 weapons plus a Weaponsmith is going a tad overboard.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #156 on: September 02, 2014, 06:26:55 pm »
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A Pirate Warrior is probably just a weaker version of face Warrior. It's not good for control because none of the Pirates really generate card advantage, and you're forcing yourself to play a lot of low mana minions. The strategy would be to use the weapons to kill off their stuff while you populate with Pirates to hit them in the face with. You have plenty of weapon charges, so in most cases you don't hold back on using them for face damage. The epic Pirate is pretty terrible (you're not likely to have multiple Pirates out when you play him, and even if you do, it's just +1 damage before they kill your Captain, but I guess you have to have it for theme. You probably don't want Gorehowl or Alex or Brawl, as those are control cards. You might want an Execute or 2 to deal with a big taunt or something (though maybe Owl is better since it also handles deathrattle things), and you probably want Heroic Strike and Mortal Strike for more damage. Argent Commander is nice if you have space. I'm also not sold on Deathlord, since you don't have that many low cost minions to protect. If you had more 1-drops, it would make sense, but it's not doing much currently.

I'd say from your current deck, remove:
Shade, Brawl, Gorehowl, Alex, 2x Deathlord and one Death's Bite
add:
2x Heroic, 1x Mortal, 2x Commander, 1x Owl, and a 2nd Reaper and start working from there.
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Grujah

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #157 on: September 02, 2014, 06:42:56 pm »
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I've actually made 9 decks, one for each class (also I got first Wing Nax):
Paladin Control (Might switch to some weenie strat)
Hunter Midrange
Backlight Rogue
Egg/Void Zoo
Burn Mage
Shaman Control
Face Warrior
Control Priest
Whatever-I-have-brew Token/Midrange Druid

So I picked one at random, and play that one until I lose, and than I switch to the class that I lost to. Just for funsies and seeing which gets most play that way. Also if I lose to mirror I re-random.  ;D
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theory

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #158 on: September 02, 2014, 07:02:02 pm »
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Here's the Warrior deck I'm running now.  I haven't found a similar analog online though I'm sure someone has come up with the same basic concept previously.



Cards that I've found vital to this deck:

* Dread Corsair
* The Black Knight

Cards I'm considering replacing:

* Commanding Shout
* Arathi Weaponsmith

I think Grommash would be a solid addition but I don't own him.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #159 on: September 02, 2014, 07:05:04 pm »
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My first warrior deck was based around the damage your own minions for enrage and other benefits concept.  Feels strong.
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KingZog3

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #160 on: September 02, 2014, 07:31:30 pm »
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Commanding shout is just not that playable. You leave your minims wry vulnerable, and you already need a bunch front to be worth it, AND they need to be attacking things that would otherwise kill them. I suspect you mostly want to show off the golden card :P
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #161 on: September 02, 2014, 09:02:31 pm »
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I personally like Weaponsmith, but it's not the most incredible card.

I'd say...

- Cut out Commanding Shout, it's nice when it works and not that useful when it doesn't.
- Cut Unstable Ghouls, since I think it's more of a delaying card. My feeling is that they can be good, but Enrage Warrior is a more aggressive deck and Unstable Ghouls tend to be used to buy early time.
- Add second Whirlwind - 2x Whirlwind + Death's Bite seems like enough enablers.
- If you wanted a more combo-y deck, add second Warsong and Inner Rages - you can get the charge before using Inner Rage to deal lots of damage from the hand. Warsong is really nice since it gives charge to practically everything in your deck - the only downside is that you almost always have to hold it in hand because it's a top priority removal target, so it's not really a turn 3 play and it drives your curve up a bit. I still think it's worth it though.
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KingZog3

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #162 on: September 02, 2014, 09:31:32 pm »
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Weaponsmith is really a value card. It's a 3/3 drop for 4 mana that deals 4dmg over 2 turns. It's a lot in one card, but it's not fast. I think it's much better in arena.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #163 on: September 03, 2014, 09:04:09 am »
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ADWCTA also suggested cutting Unstable Ghoul, but maybe I am just too enamored with the Unstable Ghoul -> Raging Worgen play.  It serves a double role of protector + trigger for my important minions, so I am loath to remove it.

I don't particularly like Arathi Weaponsmith because I rarely have that much trouble removing small minions.  I often just wish I had a Death's Bite / Arcanite Reaper instead.  Of course, those don't give me 3/3 bodies or aren't playable on 4 mana, but it does feel like an Arena hero instead of what this deck needs.

Inner Rage / more Warsong is a good idea.  My deck right now doesn't have a ton of "combo-from-hand" potential (it's mostly about keeping a Raging Worgen / Frothing Berserker alive for a turn) but perhaps another Warsong will open up more opportunities.

Also, guys, I'm serious about the Dread Corsair thing.  It really is the most crucial non-win condition card in my deck (maybe second after TBK) -- squeezing out a free 3/3 taunt is pretty gamechanging.
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Grujah

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #164 on: September 03, 2014, 09:07:42 am »
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No 2/3 Pirates that get bigger with weapons?
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Jorbles

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #165 on: September 03, 2014, 01:05:29 pm »
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I'd definitely cut the Weaponsmith in this deck. There's problems with the card in a deck that has 5 better weapons in it. I run a similar Warrior deck and cut the Weaponsmith from it because there were numerous times that I would be unable to play the Weaponsmith because I either already had a better weapon equipped or wanted to equip a better weapon that turn and didn't want to waste the 2/2.

I would also cut the Ghouls, they synergize with your minions to enrage them, but they're not aggressive enough.

Cards I would consider adding:
Kor'Kron Elite: It's just a really good card even if it doesn't synergize.
Bloodsail Raider: Weapons make this card worth playing.
Grommosh: It sucks you don't have it, but it really would work very well here as a finisher.
Mortal Strike: One of the few Warrior cards with the ability to ignore Taunts.
Another Whirlwind: A good cheap card in this style of deck.
Earthenring Farseer: Yeah, there will be situations where you don't want to turn off a creatures enrage, but considering the amounts of ways to enrage cards you should get value out of the healing whether by keeping a creature alive to do more damage (Frothing, Gurubashi), healing a creature that's about to be reenraged anyways (through Whirlwind, Frost's Bite, etc) or just healing yourself (you do tend to take damage with all the weapons smashing into creatures). Plus it synergizes with Warsong.
Slam: If you have trouble with card draw this is a good value card for cycling.
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Jorbles

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #166 on: September 03, 2014, 01:09:39 pm »
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Also another Warsong would be good too.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #167 on: September 08, 2014, 07:02:14 am »
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I'm running a fun Secret Mage deck now -- I think Jorbles has one?  Anyway, I'm wondering on some card choices...

1 Mana:

Mirror Image x2
Mana Wyrm x2
Secretkeeper x2

2 Mana:

Frostbolt x2
Mad Scientist x2

3 Mana:

Arcane Intellect x2
Duplicate x2
Ice Barrier
Mirror Entity x2
Spellbender
Kirin Tor Mage x2

4 Mana:

Polymorph x2
Ethereal Arcanist x2

5 Mana:

Feugen
Stalagg

6+ Mana:

Blizzard
Flamestrike x2
Alexstrasza



I'm wondering if I need a second Blizzard (in place of a Flamestrike?  Instead of something else?) and if there are better options for 5 Mana instead of Feugen/Stalagg (I have a Faceless...Sea Giant?).

I'd like one Ice Block, but don't have it.  I have no Vaporize, either.  I have one Counterspell, but don't find it useful.

It's basically a control style deck, just biding my time while I whittle away at minions and keep getting free stuff from secret shenanigans.  But if I don't get a super big Ethereal Arcanist or Mana Wyrm, I'm a bit weak on the killing (no Pyro, no Fireballs, nothing).

Like, if I had a Leeroy or a Cairne or a Sylvanus, sure.  Or a Rag.  But I don't...I have 1 Sea Giant, 1 Molten Giant, all the Naxx legendaries, 2x Argent Commander, the aforementioned Faceless, 2x Abomination...

Any suggestions?  I have enough dust to craft an epic or 6 or so rares at this point.
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Jorbles

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #168 on: September 08, 2014, 02:06:00 pm »
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I've been waiting for someone to talk about this with! This is what I run:
1s:
2 x Arcane Missiles
2 x Mana Wyrms

2s:
2 x Frostbolt
2 x Mad Scientist
2 x Ooze (I would swap these for Amanis if the meta didn't seem to be loaded with Warriors and Hunters with Eaglesongs right now)

3s:
1 x Arcane Intellect
1 x Acolyte (I've been thinking of replacing this with a second Arcane Intellect, but I like the versatility)
2 x Kirin Tor
1 x Counterspell
1 x Vapourize (I've had good results from this as a delayed removal spell, but it relies on you playing from ahead and leaving something behind that you think they'll attack face with. A lot of mind games involved. I'll probably replace this with Counterspell when I have dust to craft a second one.)
1 x Mirror Entity (edit: I only have 1.)
2 x Duplicate

4s:
2 x Water Elemental
1 x Ethereal Arcanist
2 x Fireball
2 x Polymorph

5+s:
2 x Azure Drakes
1 x Loatheb (edit: forgot I'd traded Loatheb in.)
1 x Flamestrike

It's fun I don't know how legit it will be at higher ranks, but it's climbing steadily since the last ladder reset.

I used to run Spellbender in this deck, but it really just seems like a terrible secret since it only activates when someone casts a spell targeting a creature. You'd be better off with a Counterspell. Counterspell can counter any spell, not just ones that target individual minions. Spellbender actually plays terribly if you have a Duplicate out (you don't want two Spellbenders you want two Kirin Tors or two Water Elementals or two Azure Drakes).

I used to run Cairne in this deck, but found he was usually too slow. This deck builds all it's momentum in the midgame with 3 and 4 drops. I was usually wanting to play multiple midrange threats instead of a big Cairne who is really just a midrange threat and another delayed midrange threat. I also tried running Veonidas as a finisher, but found he was too slow as well.

I don't own any Secret Keepers, but I don't think I'd run them if I did. If you play a Secretkeeper turn 1 you're not going to see a secret to buff it until turn 3 unless you coin or mad scientist one out. It doesn't seem strong enough to me, but let me know how they go.

I used to run two Arcanists, but found if I drew both of them one of them would have trouble matching up with secrets at some point.

I try to play the deck by never casting a secret for full price. Always try to bring them out with Mad Scientists or KT Mages. I use momentum gained from free secrets to take control of the mid game, gain a card advantage and try to win around the time I've drawn about 20 cards from the deck. Duplicate is a really key card for building hand advantage. I want to duplicate cards that I can cast both of immediately after the thing is killed. Any of the 3, 4 or 5 drops are good for this, Mad Scientist is okay if it's still early in the game. Ooze is okay to Duplicate if it's against a Warrior. Otherwise I try to trade off weak minions on my turn to force the Duplicate of a 3+ drop on theirs. This deck can win in the late game, but legendary heavy decks often outlast it if the game goes that long.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2014, 08:26:05 pm by Jorbles »
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markusin

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #169 on: September 08, 2014, 02:53:31 pm »
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Yeah I agree that Counterspell is just better than Spellbender. There are a bunch of cards that are draw+other effect, like Slam, Hammer of Wrath, and Wrath. Spellbender still lets them draw.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #170 on: September 08, 2014, 09:48:58 pm »
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I've been waiting for someone to talk about this with!

I used to run Spellbender in this deck, but it really just seems like a terrible secret since it only activates when someone casts a spell targeting a creature. You'd be better off with a Counterspell. Counterspell can counter any spell, not just ones that target individual minions. Spellbender actually plays terribly if you have a Duplicate out (you don't want two Spellbenders you want two Kirin Tors or two Water Elementals or two Azure Drakes).

I used to run Cairne in this deck, but found he was usually too slow. This deck builds all it's momentum in the midgame with 3 and 4 drops. I was usually wanting to play multiple midrange threats instead of a big Cairne who is really just a midrange threat and another delayed midrange threat. I also tried running Veonidas as a finisher, but found he was too slow as well.

I don't own any Secret Keepers, but I don't think I'd run them if I did. If you play a Secretkeeper turn 1 you're not going to see a secret to buff it until turn 3 unless you coin or mad scientist one out. It doesn't seem strong enough to me, but let me know how they go.

I used to run two Arcanists, but found if I drew both of them one of them would have trouble matching up with secrets at some point.

I try to play the deck by never casting a secret for full price. Always try to bring them out with Mad Scientists or KT Mages. I use momentum gained from free secrets to take control of the mid game, gain a card advantage and try to win around the time I've drawn about 20 cards from the deck. Duplicate is a really key card for building hand advantage. I want to duplicate cards that I can cast both of immediately after the thing is killed. Any of the 3, 4 or 5 drops are good for this, Mad Scientist is okay if it's still early in the game. Ooze is okay to Duplicate if it's against a Warrior. Otherwise I try to trade off weak minions on my turn to force the Duplicate of a 3+ drop on theirs. This deck can win in the late game, but legendary heavy decks often outlast it if the game goes that long.

I've found that the Secret Keepers have been a net positive since I've started playing this deck -- I usually don't drop them T1 (that's the normal Mirror Image/Mana Wrym/Coin combos), but will if I need to have presence on T1/T2.  Generally they're a 2/3, which trades well enough, and often they'll draw the Wrath/Frostbolt/etc. out early, which I think is a good use of a 1 Drop.

I'm 50/50 on Spellbender, but when it works, it is spectacular.  I mean, it's nice when it steals a buff like MotW or something, but it seems like eating the assassinate is it's main role.  I get that Counterspell does the same thing, but I don't think you're meant to think of them as the same.  Spellbender is a minion protector, like a spell taunt.  It's the spell version of the Paladin one, but better.

I love Arcanists, and I think I'd give 2 another shot.  If I had Ice Block, it'd be even better, since that secret sticks until the very end.  They are often my big mid-range threats even though they aren't that big.

I play the deck basically with the intent of irritating the opponent into submission (not really).  Unlike common sense would dictate, I actually like Duplicating my Mirror Images -- general, barring Consecrate/Holy Nova/etc., dropping free taunts all day really slows down the opponent.  I haven't thought about using a Knife Juggler in this, but maybe with all the extra small minions from Duplicate, it's worth it?  I'm generally trying to keep board control until I can get the big guns out, and Alex is always a useful game changer late.

My big issue is I don't really have big guns that are great -- I rarely get Thaddius to work out, and I just don't have much else.  I could sub in a Faceless and an Azure Drake, maybe.

Jorbles -- how are you killing folks?  Elementals?  Spells?  Drakes are 4/4 and Loatheb is one 5/5.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #171 on: September 09, 2014, 12:14:21 am »
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The win condition in my Secret Mage deck is mainly getting huge Arcanists, with Duplicate giving me a few extra chances. I also have a Pyroblast in there. The only problem is that I don't own any Ice Blocks, though, which makes the deck much worse.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #172 on: September 09, 2014, 12:36:15 am »
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The win condition in my Secret Mage deck is mainly getting huge Arcanists, with Duplicate giving me a few extra chances. I also have a Pyroblast in there. The only problem is that I don't own any Ice Blocks, though, which makes the deck much worse.

I'm really tempted to spend the 400 dust to craft an Ice Block for that reason.  I'd only want the one anyway.

Would giants make any sense?  I often get up to 5 minions on the board just from the multiple Mirror Images, Secret Keepers, etc.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #173 on: September 09, 2014, 12:58:44 am »
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Jorbles -- how are you killing folks?  Elementals?  Spells?  Drakes are 4/4 and Loatheb is one 5/5.

I would say that occasionally I'll kill them in a lucky initial rush (25% of the time) by bursting them down at the end with a big arcanist and a spell, but most often I win by getting 3-4 mid size minions out and hammering them down once they're top decking. This usually involves some combo of Water Elementals, KT Mages and Drakes.
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Jorbles

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #174 on: September 09, 2014, 01:00:43 am »
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Would giants make any sense?  I often get up to 5 minions on the board just from the multiple Mirror Images, Secret Keepers, etc.

I briefly ran a Mountain Giant in the deck because I often had a card advantage in my deck (I bumped it out because it was usually not great to duplicate, the first was often cheap, but the second and third were often not). A Sea Giant might work in yours, or Frostwolf Warlords if you've got lots of little critters?
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