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Author Topic: Constructed General Discussion  (Read 85405 times)

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KingZog3

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #50 on: July 05, 2014, 10:15:04 pm »
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Anyone know how ranked matchmaking works between legend and non-legend? For non-legend, I've read that they just try to match similarly-ranked players together, and I assume it's the same for legend (except using some kind of MMR instead of the star-and-rank system). But what are they doing when pairing legend and non-legend?

My guess is that there is also a wait time factor, where they want to reduce waiting time to play. So they pair you a legend player.
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Grujah

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #51 on: July 09, 2014, 05:04:52 pm »
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Is it just me or do these Control Paladins have no ways to beat Zoo whatsoever?
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KingZog3

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #52 on: July 09, 2014, 06:17:51 pm »
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Is it just me or do these Control Paladins have no ways to beat Zoo whatsoever?

Consecration? Lot's of 1/1 minoins? Other than that I don't know.
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Grujah

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #53 on: July 09, 2014, 06:27:03 pm »
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I've been steamrolling them.

Consecration is easiest Wrath to play around (much easier than anything that Freeze Mage or Handlock have). 1/1s never trade up.
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KingZog3

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #54 on: July 09, 2014, 08:13:50 pm »
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I've been steamrolling them.

Consecration is easiest Wrath to play around (much easier than anything that Freeze Mage or Handlock have). 1/1s never trade up.

I know they won't trade up. Did you first sentence mean Consecration is easier to play around? or that Wrath is easier to play around?
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #55 on: July 09, 2014, 08:27:58 pm »
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I've been steamrolling them.

Consecration is easiest Wrath to play around (much easier than anything that Freeze Mage or Handlock have). 1/1s never trade up.

I know they won't trade up. Did you first sentence mean Consecration is easier to play around? or that Wrath is easier to play around?

I think by Wrath he meant mass removal.

And I think the main anti-zoo tools Paladin runs are Pyro, Equality, a lot of heal (including Truesilver) and often Kodo. But it's uphill, because Paladin isn't good at establishing an early board presence.
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KingZog3

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #56 on: July 09, 2014, 08:53:35 pm »
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How do the aggro Paladins compare to Zoo? I feel like it's silly to rely on Divine Favour for draw when you could just be a Warlock and have it all the time.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #57 on: July 10, 2014, 12:04:28 am »
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How do the aggro Paladins compare to Zoo? I feel like it's silly to rely on Divine Favour for draw when you could just be a Warlock and have it all the time.

It's a totally different kind of deck. It's pure aggro, like face hunter or rogue. As a result, it's much better against things like miracle rogue. People also play aggro warlock, but that's a little worse, as it has no good way of dealing with taunt.
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blueblimp

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #58 on: July 10, 2014, 01:43:22 am »
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How do the aggro Paladins compare to Zoo? I feel like it's silly to rely on Divine Favour for draw when you could just be a Warlock and have it all the time.

It's a totally different kind of deck. It's pure aggro, like face hunter or rogue. As a result, it's much better against things like miracle rogue. People also play aggro warlock, but that's a little worse, as it has no good way of dealing with taunt.
When playing Miracle Rogue, I feel like aggro Paladin is usually an easy win, provided that you keep in mind to be wasteful with your cards so that the Paladin can't play a huge Divine Favour. The Rogue hero power easily keeps the 1/1s from getting out of control, and without a big Divine Favour, they run out of cards. Warlock zoo (the board control version) is a harder matchup, although I think still favoured for the Rogue.
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ycz6

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #59 on: July 10, 2014, 01:54:45 am »
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I've been steamrolling them.

Consecration is easiest Wrath to play around (much easier than anything that Freeze Mage or Handlock have). 1/1s never trade up.

I know they won't trade up. Did you first sentence mean Consecration is easier to play around? or that Wrath is easier to play around?

I think by Wrath he meant mass removal.
That is a confusing term to use in the context of HS.
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Grujah

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #60 on: July 10, 2014, 09:49:36 am »
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Yeah, Hivemind is probably right, he has trouble having early presence so you can just hit face.

If he hits 5/6 guy that restores health that can be a problem, but other heals are not that bad.
Pyro/Equi hits hard but it's not like you cannot get back, getting back is what you are good at.

@ycz6 - Well, Wrath or Verdict as a word for mass removal is so rooted now that I cannot help it :P


In other news,
A zoo list just played Siphon Soul on me.
What the hell?
And it's rank 4.
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KingZog3

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #61 on: July 10, 2014, 09:51:55 am »
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In other news,
A zoo list just played Siphon Soul on me.
What the hell?
And it's rank 4.

Bahahaha. Did you lose because of it?
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Grujah

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #62 on: July 10, 2014, 10:43:01 am »
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No, I did not.

I mean, he did go for face instead of trade and did play Leper Gnome (and those are signs of bad decks/players) but when turn 6 he Life Taped and ended his turn with 3 cards in hand (and against a board of a few creatures) I was.. surprised, to say at least. But than Siphon Soul next turn was even more surprising. :D

I've seen Argent Commanders and Black Knights, but Siphon Soul? Wow.
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KingZog3

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #63 on: July 10, 2014, 11:39:46 am »
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No, I did not.

I mean, he did go for face instead of trade and did play Leper Gnome (and those are signs of bad decks/players) but when turn 6 he Life Taped and ended his turn with 3 cards in hand (and against a board of a few creatures) I was.. surprised, to say at least. But than Siphon Soul next turn was even more surprising. :D

I've seen Argent Commanders and Black Knights, but Siphon Soul? Wow.

I guess argent is used as a replacement for doomguard. Never seen black knight in a zoo deck.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #64 on: July 10, 2014, 12:23:58 pm »
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At some point it stops being zoo, and starts being mid-range...
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KingZog3

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #65 on: July 10, 2014, 01:22:49 pm »
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At some point it stops being zoo, and starts being mid-range...

Except there aren't really any mid range warlocks
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Grujah

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #66 on: July 10, 2014, 03:46:56 pm »
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No, I did not.

I mean, he did go for face instead of trade and did play Leper Gnome (and those are signs of bad decks/players) but when turn 6 he Life Taped and ended his turn with 3 cards in hand (and against a board of a few creatures) I was.. surprised, to say at least. But than Siphon Soul next turn was even more surprising. :D

I've seen Argent Commanders and Black Knights, but Siphon Soul? Wow.

I guess argent is used as a replacement for doomguard. Never seen black knight in a zoo deck.

Nah, I've seen Argent in adition to doomguard. I mean, sure, it trades very well, but 6 mana is very high for that deck. Not too thrilled.

I've seen TBK in the most recent tournament, one that was hosted by Bob (Numbericable Cup or something like that).
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blueblimp

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #67 on: July 10, 2014, 04:02:48 pm »
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Leper Gnome (and those are signs of bad decks/players)
Isn't Leper Gnome just a sign of a more face-oriented zoo as opposed to the standard board control-oriented zoo? Board control must be a stronger approach since that's how top players focus their zoo decks, but it seems to me that in certain matchups face zoo might do better. e.g. Against Rogue, maybe putting the additional pressure on their life total is a good thing.
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Grujah

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #68 on: July 10, 2014, 04:11:54 pm »
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Yeah, I guess you do have a better matchup against zoo, but Leper Gnome goes against the philosophy of Zoo (and I've made Leper Gnome mistake before).

I mean, sure, you can play it if you want more damage to the face, but like any other one drop provides way better value.

And FWIW, I see much less rogues on EU recently.

30/17/13/10 for Lock/Druid/Rogue/Warrior according to my stats. (this season).
« Last Edit: July 10, 2014, 04:33:42 pm by Grujah »
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theory

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #69 on: July 10, 2014, 04:51:18 pm »
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No, I did not.

I mean, he did go for face instead of trade and did play Leper Gnome (and those are signs of bad decks/players) but when turn 6 he Life Taped and ended his turn with 3 cards in hand (and against a board of a few creatures) I was.. surprised, to say at least. But than Siphon Soul next turn was even more surprising. :D

I've seen Argent Commanders and Black Knights, but Siphon Soul? Wow.

I guess argent is used as a replacement for doomguard. Never seen black knight in a zoo deck.

Nah, I've seen Argent in adition to doomguard. I mean, sure, it trades very well, but 6 mana is very high for that deck. Not too thrilled.

I really don't like it.  Drawing it with your Doomguard really stinks.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #70 on: July 10, 2014, 05:10:21 pm »
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At some point it stops being zoo, and starts being mid-range...

Except there aren't really any mid range warlocks

Not if you insist of calling them all "zoo". But if the deck curve is really going all the way to 6, with 3+ cards up there, it's not really zoo anymore...
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Grujah

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #71 on: July 10, 2014, 08:22:47 pm »
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I never understood why is it called Zoo anyway.

It has no cats, apes or lions. Not even elephants or boars.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2014, 08:28:17 pm by Grujah »
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Titandrake

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #72 on: July 10, 2014, 09:58:44 pm »
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I used to run 1x Siphon Soul in my board control Warlock, because there weren't that many ways to deal with big taunts in the way. In retrospect, Power Overwhelming is probably good enough, and Doomguard can break through a lot of stuff.
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Grujah

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #73 on: July 11, 2014, 02:46:34 am »
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Thing is you can almost all the time trade with anything efficiently. Occasionally Sunwalker or 5/10 Tree will be a problem where you have to trade badly. I do not think that varants Siphon Soul.
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blueblimp

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #74 on: July 11, 2014, 11:15:12 am »
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Any 5+ mana card is going to get discarded by Soulfire or Doomguard too much to really be useful, I think.
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