Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 3 ... 43 [All]

Author Topic: Constructed General Discussion  (Read 85404 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

theory

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3549
  • Respect: +5764
    • View Profile
    • Dominion Strategy
Constructed General Discussion
« on: June 17, 2014, 06:43:54 pm »
0

Share your adventures in constructed ranked, or casual!
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2014, 08:58:04 pm »
0

Anyone have suggestions for great rankings of cards for constructed?  I use some Arena rankings, which are greatly helpful.  I feel like someone must have done a full list of all cards and ranked them by cost, like "Here are all 0-1 mana cost neutral commons, in rank order" and posted them somewhere.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

blueblimp

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2717
  • Respect: +1457
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2014, 11:01:18 pm »
+1

Anyone have suggestions for great rankings of cards for constructed?  I use some Arena rankings, which are greatly helpful.  I feel like someone must have done a full list of all cards and ranked them by cost, like "Here are all 0-1 mana cost neutral commons, in rank order" and posted them somewhere.
That doesn't really make sense for constructed because the goodness of cards depends more on how well they fit into the deck than in arena. For example, Shieldbearer is a terrible arena card, and in most constructed decks it's really bad too, but in zoo it's good.
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2014, 02:49:00 am »
+5

Here is a quick rundown of what's played right now, if that helps. Neutral cards:

Edit: wait, I forgot souldbond stuff, I'll put it on bottom.

Other cards than these are rarely/never seen. Murlocks are only seen in dedicated deck, which ain't all that great.

1 drops
Argent Squire - 1 drop of choice of most decks, as it trades good with two 2/1s, and if you buff it it makes even better trades.
Leper Gnome - It's basically 2-4 damage for 1 mana, sometimes a lil more, usually aggressive deck run it.
Young Priestess - Zoo staple, any other agro deck that benefits from the effect.
Abusive Sargent - Zoo and similar very agressive deck that like good trades.
Shieldbearer - Zoo Staple.
Southsee Deckhand - Tempo Rogue.
Worgen Inflatrator - rarely seen, some players prefer this drop to other ones in agro decks. Like I saw some Shockadins that play it.
Elven Archer - anti-aggro tech.
Stonetusk - Hunter only.

2 Drops -
Thalnos - Anyone who can use +1 spellpower, which is many decks.
Ancent Watcher - Control decks, it comes in package with Defenders of Argust and..
Sunfury Protector - Control, see above.
Knife Juggler - Staple, any decks that can put out a lot of minions. Bonus points when it kills Leeroy before he attacks.
Dire Wolf Alpha - Aggro staple.
Wild Pyro - any deck that can cheat with it, i.e. Paladin/Druid/Priest control.
Loot Hoarder - Value creature, anybody who needs early body and draw power.
Faerie Dragon - when you need a 2 drop that doesn't die to early removal. Quite Decent.
Amani Berserker - Usually 1 of in Agro decks, it an be awkward to play against.
Ironbeak Owl - chapest neutral silence + trades. Played usually in deck that have to remove taunters.
Doomsayer - Freeze Mage/other low creature count controls.
Acidic - rarely, only those decks that get totally ripped by weaposn.
Bluegill - Aggro
Kobold Geomancer - if you see somebody play it, it's budget replacement for Thalnos.
Crocolisk - Midrange hunters. Trades favorable with 2/1s.

3 Drops
Harvest Golem - Super-value, anybody who can fit it.
Acoyle of Pain - those who can abuse it and need draw, i.e. Mage/Warrior Control.
Earthen Farseer - any deck that needs to surive a bit more, control and such. Mircle Rogue too.
Big Game Hunter - deck that don't have real removal (like druids) and need to get rid of big guys.
Arcane Golem - Finisher, if Leeroy is not nuff.
Injured Blademaster - Priests. Control ones.
Blood Knight - Meta-card, used when you think he has a lot of shields to steal.
Scarlet Crusader - Zoo, aggro.
Coldlight - some tempo Rogues, burn Mages, etc..
Mukla - some Hunters, some tempo Rogues..
Demolisher - Incrisingly popular in Druids.
Wolf Rider - aggro.
Shattered Sun - Zoo and zoo like.


4 Drops:
Leeroy - #1 favourite finisher, aggro, but basically anyone. Rogue cheats with it.
Defender of Argus - anybody who can fit it in, actually.
Twilight Drake - Handlock.
Dark Iron Dwarf - Zoo, aggro.
Violet Teacher - tokens.
Yeti - Those than need solid mid-game drops. Druid sometimes.
Sen'jin - same, but you also want to slow down aggro.


5 Drops -
Azure Drake - Everybody can use spell damage, good body and +1 card. Elite drop. Everybody play it.
Faceless - Usually control and other decks that can make huge minions and than copy them.
Gadgetan - Role player, Rogues mostly.
Harrison Jones - Control Warrior, I guess.
Kodo/Tiger - few midrange hunters, but those are dying out.

6 Drops -
Cairne - Elite drop. Midrange mostly.
Argent Commander - If you need to utility/burst.
Black Knight - see Big game hunter.
Sylvanas - some still run it, control decks.
Sunwalker - Hard to remove so he is played occasionally in slower decks, Midrange/control.

7+ Drops -
Geddon - control warrior.
Rag/Ysera - control finisher, Rag is more popular.
Alextrasza - Control. Freeze Mage/Warrior mostly.
Mountain/Molten Giant - Handlock.

Somebody else can do class cards.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2014, 06:18:29 am by Grujah »
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2014, 04:09:28 am »
0

Thanks Grujah!
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2014, 04:25:21 am »
0

I missed Sunwalker, I see him from time to time as he is hard to remove.
Logged

Lekkit

  • 2011 Swedish Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1242
  • Shuffle iT Username: Lekkit
  • Respect: +663
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2014, 06:15:52 am »
0

Two minor clarifications.

Farseer - any deck that needs to surive a bit more, control and such.

Earthen Ring, not Thrallmar.

Sunfury - Zoo and zoo like.

I think this is suposed to be Shattered Sun Cleric.
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2014, 06:19:10 am »
0

Yup on both.
Logged

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2083
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2014, 12:32:04 pm »
+1

Minor additions/clarifications/disagreements:

2-drops:
Bloodsail Raider - More aggressive Warriors
Alchemist - Priest, to mess with attack power, and counter Shaman totems.
Mana Addict - some (weaker) versions of Miracle Rogue

3-drops:
MC tech - anti-zoo/shaman tech.
Imp Master - occassionally used in token Druid
Raging Worgen - some combo Warriors and Mages
Harvest Golem is only used as anti-aggro or if you need something sticky for buffs. Otherwise it's not that useful.
Coldlight is any "solitaire" decks where you don't really care about your opponent having cards. This is big combo like Miracle Rogue/Burn Mage, or all-out aggro.
Mukla is a risky but powerful play in tempo decks, so it shows up in some Warlocks as well.

4-drops:
Inventor - deck thinning with a body, sometimes in Miracle
Spellbreaker - sometimes in Watcher decks for more activators. Rarely in control decks as anti-Cairne

5-drops:
Nightblade - face Warrior
Abomination - rare anti-aggro
Venture Co. Mercenary - mostly only used by me, but it's great for control decks that don't hate the turn-after tempo loss. It serves as an extra threat in the control matchups, giving you an edge in the threats vs removals battle, while still being cheap enough to not waste hand space vs more aggresive decks.

6-drops:
Sylvanas - usually only if you have some combo with it, like Shield Slam or SW:Death

7+-drops:
Malygos - Spell Power Rogue
Giants are also used in other control decks

Oh and Murlocs:
The main ones used that haven't been mentioned are Murk-eye, Warleader, Seer, Tidecaller, and Tidehunter.
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2014, 12:38:52 pm »
0

Alchemist all sometimes with Mana Addict, as you can cheat and set Mana Addict's buffs to be permanent.

I skipped some of those on purpose, but sure.
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2014, 03:08:38 pm »
0

I use Venture Co. as well, but in my Priest deck that I don't play in ranked.
Logged

Obi Wan Bonogi

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 248
  • Respect: +319
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2014, 08:09:50 pm »
0

The decklists from last weekend's Dreamhack tournament are out: http://ihearthu.com/dreamhack-summer-group-stage-decklists/
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2014, 08:21:11 pm »
0

Hmm... some standard stuff, but there are a few interesting lists that I might try out.

Amaz actually played Facehunter, fun :)
Logged

Obi Wan Bonogi

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 248
  • Respect: +319
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2014, 08:59:16 pm »
0

Yeah, it was cool to see that a couple of the guys who went against the grain were the ones that ended up in the finals, AMAZ with the only priest and RDU with the only top 8 mage.
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2014, 03:40:21 am »
+1

Just played a level 17 Hunter in Ranked who dropped a Baron Geddon, Illidan, Alexstraza, and Cairne.

I beat him with my no legendary, mostly commons Control Pally deck.

That was nice.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2014, 09:58:53 am »
0

Just played a level 17 Hunter in Ranked who dropped a Baron Geddon, Illidan, Alexstraza, and Cairne.

I beat him with my no legendary, mostly commons Control Pally deck.

That was nice.

Just goes to show that you can have tons of legendaries, but without actually thinking about your deck they are just as dead as anything else.
Logged

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2083
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2014, 03:32:53 pm »
0

Kodo/Tiger - few midrange hunters, but those are dying out.

I missed this one, but Kodos also show up a bunch of other places as anti-zoo/shaman tech.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 04:11:44 pm by HiveMindEmulator »
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2014, 01:30:48 pm »
0

I just played a Priest vs. Priest where I had a Northshire on the board, and all my minions were damaged from my Wild Pyromancer. I have full hand and my opponent play Circle of Healing to burn through like, 8 cards of mine. It gave me a 29-2 Light Wardern, which he had to Shadow Word: Death. Still won easily, but it was pretty interesting.
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2014, 04:06:06 pm »
0

Another Priest laugh, I just thoughtstole two Thouthsteals.
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2014, 05:20:26 pm »
0

Another Priest laugh, I just thoughtstole two Thouthsteals.

Amaz would be overjoyed.

I mean, TS is the best card in the game :P
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2014, 05:22:12 pm »
0

Another Priest laugh, I just thoughtstole two Thouthsteals.

Amaz would be overjoyed.

I mean, TS is the best card in the game :P

It has it's moments, that's for sure.

EDIT: Like the Golden Alakir I just stole.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 05:23:54 pm by KingZog3 »
Logged

Obi Wan Bonogi

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 248
  • Respect: +319
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2014, 08:15:28 pm »
+2

Woo, I made legend! 

I had made it up to mid rank 1 three times with my goofy mage deck but couldn't break through the last few games.  So after falling back to rank 3 I loaded up my fairly standard Shaman deck and went on a hot streak. 

I haven't been running Unbound Elementals.  The borderline cards I was running were 2x Harvest Golem, 1x Chilwind, 1x Senjin, 1x Defender of Arg, 1x Argent Commander.    I feel like Shaman is where Druid used to be in that it has mostly solid mathups but is slightly under the radar.  It helps Shaman that Miracle Rogue is losing popularity.  Druid is the deck to beat right now.  I'm not sure that Shaman is the answer to druid but it's certainly not the worst choice. 
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2014, 09:06:29 pm »
0

Congrats!!! Rank 2* is the best I've managed so far.

 Yeah, I agree on your definition of shaman.
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2014, 10:26:51 pm »
0

My current ranked deck is a Shaman deck and it's pretty solid. With the right opening cards you get get passed Innervated stuff, and Hex is good for large drops that Druid can put out. I'm pretty sure the worst matchup is against Hunter, but they lost a lot of popularity after the UTH nerf.
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2014, 10:29:00 pm »
0

My current, most successful Ranked deck is 3-Mana UTH Trap Hunter.  With the right draw, it's pretty amazing.  It struggles against control decks or other decks with very few minions, since it really depends on Starving Buzzard + UTH to go off.

You can tell when you are playing someone who isn't super familiar with Hunter decks, though.  Dropping four minions with 2 or less life right before attacking me and I have a trap set?  Shoulda tested for Explosive Trap.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2014, 10:44:22 pm »
0

My current, most successful Ranked deck is 3-Mana UTH Trap Hunter.  With the right draw, it's pretty amazing.  It struggles against control decks or other decks with very few minions, since it really depends on Starving Buzzard + UTH to go off.

You can tell when you are playing someone who isn't super familiar with Hunter decks, though.  Dropping four minions with 2 or less life right before attacking me and I have a trap set?  Shoulda tested for Explosive Trap.

Yeah it's pretty brutal the first few times until you learn to check for secrets. the best is opponent plays Buzzard and secret, and I use a spell to kill the Buzzard. Yay, 3 1/1's at the wrong time.
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2014, 10:57:16 pm »
0

My current ranked deck is a Shaman deck and it's pretty solid. With the right opening cards you get get passed Innervated stuff, and Hex is good for large drops that Druid can put out. I'm pretty sure the worst matchup is against Hunter, but they lost a lot of popularity after the UTH nerf.

Hunters are quite rare now.

My currently "main" deck is, I've just realized, the same one that ek0p played on DH.
Rogue one: http://ihearthu.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/EKOP.png

Deck needs a bit play to get used to, but is much fun, and more consistant than I expected. I believe that the worst matchup is Warlock as feeding him cards is a way bigger liability than usual.
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2014, 11:34:00 pm »
0

My current, most successful Ranked deck is 3-Mana UTH Trap Hunter.  With the right draw, it's pretty amazing.  It struggles against control decks or other decks with very few minions, since it really depends on Starving Buzzard + UTH to go off.

You can tell when you are playing someone who isn't super familiar with Hunter decks, though.  Dropping four minions with 2 or less life right before attacking me and I have a trap set?  Shoulda tested for Explosive Trap.

Yeah it's pretty brutal the first few times until you learn to check for secrets. the best is opponent plays Buzzard and secret, and I use a spell to kill the Buzzard. Yay, 3 1/1's at the wrong time.

One of the best lessons I've learned in playing HS is when not to play your cards.  Sometimes you just have to use your UTH to clear the board, but if you build a deck around combos, wait for the combos.  Mulligan hard, don't be afraid.  I thought Tracking was always a sort of crappy card, but when you just need one card to make things happen, go for it.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3260
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +1868
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2014, 11:41:12 pm »
0

My current, most successful Ranked deck is 3-Mana UTH Trap Hunter.  With the right draw, it's pretty amazing.  It struggles against control decks or other decks with very few minions, since it really depends on Starving Buzzard + UTH to go off.

You can tell when you are playing someone who isn't super familiar with Hunter decks, though.  Dropping four minions with 2 or less life right before attacking me and I have a trap set?  Shoulda tested for Explosive Trap.

Yeah it's pretty brutal the first few times until you learn to check for secrets. the best is opponent plays Buzzard and secret, and I use a spell to kill the Buzzard. Yay, 3 1/1's at the wrong time.

One of the best lessons I've learned in playing HS is when not to play your cards.  Sometimes you just have to use your UTH to clear the board, but if you build a deck around combos, wait for the combos.  Mulligan hard, don't be afraid.  I thought Tracking was always a sort of crappy card, but when you just need one card to make things happen, go for it.
Yeah I wasn't completely sold on tracking until I appreciated its deck thinning/sifting. That's something Hunter can really use. Even Flare is essentially a 1-mana cantrip. One less stop card to get in the way of your combo cards. If Flare's other effects come into play, all the better.
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2014, 12:08:43 am »
0

My current, most successful Ranked deck is 3-Mana UTH Trap Hunter.  With the right draw, it's pretty amazing.  It struggles against control decks or other decks with very few minions, since it really depends on Starving Buzzard + UTH to go off.

You can tell when you are playing someone who isn't super familiar with Hunter decks, though.  Dropping four minions with 2 or less life right before attacking me and I have a trap set?  Shoulda tested for Explosive Trap.

Yeah it's pretty brutal the first few times until you learn to check for secrets. the best is opponent plays Buzzard and secret, and I use a spell to kill the Buzzard. Yay, 3 1/1's at the wrong time.

One of the best lessons I've learned in playing HS is when not to play your cards.  Sometimes you just have to use your UTH to clear the board, but if you build a deck around combos, wait for the combos.  Mulligan hard, don't be afraid.  I thought Tracking was always a sort of crappy card, but when you just need one card to make things happen, go for it.
Yeah I wasn't completely sold on tracking until I appreciated its deck thinning/sifting. That's something Hunter can really use. Even Flare is essentially a 1-mana cantrip. One less stop card to get in the way of your combo cards. If Flare's other effects come into play, all the better.

If Flare destroys a secret you're in the money. Like, wow it's good. but otherwise I'm not convinced it's much good in a deck, even for the deck thinning.
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2014, 01:05:06 am »
0

My current, most successful Ranked deck is 3-Mana UTH Trap Hunter.  With the right draw, it's pretty amazing.  It struggles against control decks or other decks with very few minions, since it really depends on Starving Buzzard + UTH to go off.

You can tell when you are playing someone who isn't super familiar with Hunter decks, though.  Dropping four minions with 2 or less life right before attacking me and I have a trap set?  Shoulda tested for Explosive Trap.

Yeah it's pretty brutal the first few times until you learn to check for secrets. the best is opponent plays Buzzard and secret, and I use a spell to kill the Buzzard. Yay, 3 1/1's at the wrong time.

One of the best lessons I've learned in playing HS is when not to play your cards.  Sometimes you just have to use your UTH to clear the board, but if you build a deck around combos, wait for the combos.  Mulligan hard, don't be afraid.  I thought Tracking was always a sort of crappy card, but when you just need one card to make things happen, go for it.
Yeah I wasn't completely sold on tracking until I appreciated its deck thinning/sifting. That's something Hunter can really use. Even Flare is essentially a 1-mana cantrip. One less stop card to get in the way of your combo cards. If Flare's other effects come into play, all the better.

If Flare destroys a secret you're in the money. Like, wow it's good. but otherwise I'm not convinced it's much good in a deck, even for the deck thinning.

I don't run it, but I've seen a lot of Hunters with it.  Seems situational, like Ooze, except not as awesome as Oozing a huge weapon.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2014, 01:11:40 am »
0

My current, most successful Ranked deck is 3-Mana UTH Trap Hunter.  With the right draw, it's pretty amazing.  It struggles against control decks or other decks with very few minions, since it really depends on Starving Buzzard + UTH to go off.

You can tell when you are playing someone who isn't super familiar with Hunter decks, though.  Dropping four minions with 2 or less life right before attacking me and I have a trap set?  Shoulda tested for Explosive Trap.

Yeah it's pretty brutal the first few times until you learn to check for secrets. the best is opponent plays Buzzard and secret, and I use a spell to kill the Buzzard. Yay, 3 1/1's at the wrong time.

One of the best lessons I've learned in playing HS is when not to play your cards.  Sometimes you just have to use your UTH to clear the board, but if you build a deck around combos, wait for the combos.  Mulligan hard, don't be afraid.  I thought Tracking was always a sort of crappy card, but when you just need one card to make things happen, go for it.
Yeah I wasn't completely sold on tracking until I appreciated its deck thinning/sifting. That's something Hunter can really use. Even Flare is essentially a 1-mana cantrip. One less stop card to get in the way of your combo cards. If Flare's other effects come into play, all the better.

If Flare destroys a secret you're in the money. Like, wow it's good. but otherwise I'm not convinced it's much good in a deck, even for the deck thinning.

I don't run it, but I've seen a lot of Hunters with it.  Seems situational, like Ooze, except not as awesome as Oozing a huge weapon.

Except there is always the chance to get 2 secrets. It's fun :D. And unstealthing things too. Conceal mrs Rogue? I don't think so.
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2014, 07:10:19 am »
0

You play Flare as a one-of. You usually do not have A T1 play in hunter decks so you just play it out against most matchups.

Against Hunter or Mage (esp. Freeze Mage with Ice Blocks) it is difference between victory or defeat.
Logged

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2083
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2014, 10:48:23 am »
0

I don't run [Flare], but I've seen a lot of Hunters with it.  Seems situational, like Ooze, except not as awesome as Oozing a huge weapon.
It's not really like Ooze, because there is very little risk/variance. Ooze either is a huge blowout vs a weapon, or just a 3/2, which is pretty useless in a lot of decks. Flare almost always just purely thins the deck. You have 1 spare mana at some point, and you cycle it. And then when you see a deck where you can get value, you can save it instead. But even then, you probably just cycle it if you get the chance, since whatever you would save it for is usually not that big of a deal (except Ice Block).
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #34 on: June 25, 2014, 05:41:25 am »
0

Jeez, I have to share this match!

Playing as Coldlight Rogue. I go first, vs a Rogue (Miracle), keeping Mukla and Leper Gnome, mulling into Sap.
His life in brackets, my life is irrelevant.

T1. Me - Leper Gnome, He -  Backstab. (28).
T2. Me - Weapon, attack, He - the same (27).
T3. Me - Mukla, attack for 1, He - Preparation, Fan of Knives, Sap (26)
T4. Me - Mukla! He -Gnomish Inventor, Coin, Banana (He's hands are full and needs to get rid of stuff)
T5. Me - Sap, Arcane Golem, Attack for 9, Shadowstep, He - Auctioneer, Banana, maybe some irrelevant stuff. (17)
T6  Me - Golem (for 1), Coldlight, Kill his actioneer with Sap as his hand is full, attack for 9. He - I GIVE UP. (9)

Such a priceless game.  ;D
Logged

chairs

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 134
  • Why don't you have a seat over there...
  • Respect: +16
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2014, 06:15:44 pm »
0

I'd love to have one of you guys look over my cards and tell me what I can do to not be shite at this game.

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2014, 06:26:56 pm »
0

I'd love to have one of you guys look over my cards and tell me what I can do to not be shite at this game.

What's you username and #? I'll add you and we can play a game or two and I can tell you what's up. Easy things you might be doing wrong are things like hitting the other person's hero instead of killing minions, or picking too many high cost cards for your decks. I have no idea otherwise what you maybe doing wrong.
Logged

Drab Emordnilap

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1804
  • Shuffle iT Username: Drab Emordnilap
  • Luther Bell Hendricks V
  • Respect: +1815
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #37 on: June 28, 2014, 10:10:16 am »
0

I'd love to have one of you guys look over my cards and tell me what I can do to not be shite at this game.

I wish there was game logs that could be output. The only way to really get a full idea is to have someone watch over your shoulder, either by having someone literally there, or capturing screen output.
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2014, 02:42:52 am »
0

Is "Playing Your Opponent's Cards Priest" a thing?  I've faced multiple priests in constructed running the cardstealing cards and using my cards against me.  There's the "random card from hand," "two random cards from deck," and "one random minion directly into play" cards for a total of 8 of my cards played against me.

It seems inconsistent at best to base a deck around, though.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2014, 04:50:28 am »
0

No it is not. Mind Vision and Mind Games aren't really played. (Outside of fun decks such as "Randuin" :P).

Now, Thoughtsteal is. It is actually good. Watch some Amaz's videos to see it at it's best.
It IS a quirky card, though.
It's basically Arcane Intellect with pros and cons.
Sure, it's "less consistent" and can whiff completely by drawing unplayables, but it's rare.

OTOH..
There is a strategic advantage in knowing that certain cads are still in opponent's deck and not in hand. Especially when they have one big finisher that you need to worry about (Grommash, Force of Nature).
Drawing from their deck usually gives you decent stuff that you actually need. For example, if you are playing against a control, you are more likely to get lategame stuff, value stuff against midrange, cheap bodies for trade vs aggro (though it's at it's worst against aggro decks).
Having cards in your deck that aren't in your class is beneficial. It gives you more potential outs (before and after you cast TS). It makes people play around more stuff than usual, or get punished for it. Gives you access to things that you really need but cant have (weapons, for example), thus making you somewhat more versatile.
In lategame, versus slower decks, it virtually increases your decksize (cuz you draw two but do not lose cards from deck), which means that fatigue hits you later (you get to see/play 34 cards before fatigue hits, your opponent 30), which can be important.


It's not like "leagues better than Arcane Intellect" but it has its advantages.
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #40 on: June 30, 2014, 07:45:57 pm »
0

Ended up Rank 3. Not completely satisfied, but not bad at all.
Logged

blueblimp

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2717
  • Respect: +1457
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #41 on: June 30, 2014, 08:18:18 pm »
+1

Ended up Rank 3. Not completely satisfied, but not bad at all.
I dug in and zoo'd to legend just to see whether I could do it. Took 81 games to get there from high rank 7.
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #42 on: June 30, 2014, 11:39:10 pm »
0

Great job!

I cant stand playing Zoo, though I do have it. I also need a better build.
I played, from most to least:
Coldlight Rogue
Token Shaman
Paladin Weenies (Zoo/Aggro)

Though I pretty much benched shaman now.

(And very little of Aggro Mage, Midrange Hunter and Zoolock).
Logged

ycz6

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 673
  • Respect: +386
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #43 on: July 01, 2014, 05:32:54 am »
0

Well, it took me four tries, but I finally won a game in Casual with this deck:

2x Deadly Poison
2x Grimscale Oracle
2x Murloc Tidecaller
2x Southsea Deckhand
1x Blade Flurry
2x Bloodsail Raider
2x Bluegill Warrior
2x Captain's Parrot
2x Murloc Tidehunter
2x Coldlight Oracle
2x Coldlight Seer
1x Murloc Warleader (I only have one :()
2x Southsea Captain
1x Leeroy Jenkins
1x Old Murk-Eye
1x Assassin's Blade
1x Captain Greenskin
2x Sprint

I should clarify that the game I won was because my opponent disconnected and forfeited before the mulligan.

---

Edit: Okay, just won a game legit with that deck, against a Hunter. I think the pivotal moment was when I played Murloc Tidecaller + Murloc Tidehunter + Murloc Tidehunter on turn 5 and he didn't play UTH.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 05:40:02 am by ycz6 »
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #44 on: July 01, 2014, 07:43:13 am »
0

Why Rogue with Murlocks?
Logged

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2083
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #45 on: July 01, 2014, 01:48:44 pm »
0

Ended up Rank 3. Not completely satisfied, but not bad at all.
I dug in and zoo'd to legend just to see whether I could do it. Took 81 games to get there from high rank 7.

That's pretty impressive. You must have gone something like 55-26?
Logged

blueblimp

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2717
  • Respect: +1457
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #46 on: July 01, 2014, 02:33:06 pm »
0

Ended up Rank 3. Not completely satisfied, but not bad at all.
I dug in and zoo'd to legend just to see whether I could do it. Took 81 games to get there from high rank 7.

That's pretty impressive. You must have gone something like 55-26?
Here are the per-rank stats from when I started tracking. (Once or twice I forgot to immediately notate down when I advanced rank, so they might be slightly off due to guessing when it switched over.) Looks like it was actually 80 games. Otherwise, your estimated record would be dead on. Nice. :)

Rank 7: 3-2
Rank 6: 3-0
Rank 5: 4-0
Rank 4: 7-2
Rank 3 (first session): 13-11
Rank 3 (second session): 4-1
Rank 2: 7-2
Rank 1 (first session): 10-8
Rank 1 (second session): 3-0

Total: 54-26

At rank 3 and rank 1, when I sensed that the competition was getting tougher, I took a break and tried again at a different time of day, which seemed to help a lot.

The deck is exactly Kolento's last published zoo: http://imgur.com/a/zDZCM#5. That's from April, so I don't know whether it's considered a good list anymore.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 02:35:21 pm by blueblimp »
Logged

Obi Wan Bonogi

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 248
  • Respect: +319
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #47 on: July 04, 2014, 12:04:10 pm »
0

Finally broke down, cleaned out the binder, and dropped 4k dust to build Miracle Rogue!   AhhhhHHhhH

If you can't beat 'em join 'em, right?  (I hate myself)

Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #48 on: July 04, 2014, 12:49:48 pm »
0

Finally broke down, cleaned out the binder, and dropped 4k dust to build Miracle Rogue!   AhhhhHHhhH

If you can't beat 'em join 'em, right?  (I hate myself)

I'll have to do this sooner or later, as I've opened two golden Gadgetan Engineers that I don't want to go to waste :P
Logged

blueblimp

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2717
  • Respect: +1457
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #49 on: July 05, 2014, 07:53:16 pm »
0

Anyone know how ranked matchmaking works between legend and non-legend? For non-legend, I've read that they just try to match similarly-ranked players together, and I assume it's the same for legend (except using some kind of MMR instead of the star-and-rank system). But what are they doing when pairing legend and non-legend?
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #50 on: July 05, 2014, 10:15:04 pm »
0

Anyone know how ranked matchmaking works between legend and non-legend? For non-legend, I've read that they just try to match similarly-ranked players together, and I assume it's the same for legend (except using some kind of MMR instead of the star-and-rank system). But what are they doing when pairing legend and non-legend?

My guess is that there is also a wait time factor, where they want to reduce waiting time to play. So they pair you a legend player.
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #51 on: July 09, 2014, 05:04:52 pm »
0

Is it just me or do these Control Paladins have no ways to beat Zoo whatsoever?
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #52 on: July 09, 2014, 06:17:51 pm »
0

Is it just me or do these Control Paladins have no ways to beat Zoo whatsoever?

Consecration? Lot's of 1/1 minoins? Other than that I don't know.
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #53 on: July 09, 2014, 06:27:03 pm »
0

I've been steamrolling them.

Consecration is easiest Wrath to play around (much easier than anything that Freeze Mage or Handlock have). 1/1s never trade up.
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #54 on: July 09, 2014, 08:13:50 pm »
0

I've been steamrolling them.

Consecration is easiest Wrath to play around (much easier than anything that Freeze Mage or Handlock have). 1/1s never trade up.

I know they won't trade up. Did you first sentence mean Consecration is easier to play around? or that Wrath is easier to play around?
Logged

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2083
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #55 on: July 09, 2014, 08:27:58 pm »
0

I've been steamrolling them.

Consecration is easiest Wrath to play around (much easier than anything that Freeze Mage or Handlock have). 1/1s never trade up.

I know they won't trade up. Did you first sentence mean Consecration is easier to play around? or that Wrath is easier to play around?

I think by Wrath he meant mass removal.

And I think the main anti-zoo tools Paladin runs are Pyro, Equality, a lot of heal (including Truesilver) and often Kodo. But it's uphill, because Paladin isn't good at establishing an early board presence.
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #56 on: July 09, 2014, 08:53:35 pm »
0

How do the aggro Paladins compare to Zoo? I feel like it's silly to rely on Divine Favour for draw when you could just be a Warlock and have it all the time.
Logged

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2083
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #57 on: July 10, 2014, 12:04:28 am »
0

How do the aggro Paladins compare to Zoo? I feel like it's silly to rely on Divine Favour for draw when you could just be a Warlock and have it all the time.

It's a totally different kind of deck. It's pure aggro, like face hunter or rogue. As a result, it's much better against things like miracle rogue. People also play aggro warlock, but that's a little worse, as it has no good way of dealing with taunt.
Logged

blueblimp

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2717
  • Respect: +1457
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #58 on: July 10, 2014, 01:43:22 am »
0

How do the aggro Paladins compare to Zoo? I feel like it's silly to rely on Divine Favour for draw when you could just be a Warlock and have it all the time.

It's a totally different kind of deck. It's pure aggro, like face hunter or rogue. As a result, it's much better against things like miracle rogue. People also play aggro warlock, but that's a little worse, as it has no good way of dealing with taunt.
When playing Miracle Rogue, I feel like aggro Paladin is usually an easy win, provided that you keep in mind to be wasteful with your cards so that the Paladin can't play a huge Divine Favour. The Rogue hero power easily keeps the 1/1s from getting out of control, and without a big Divine Favour, they run out of cards. Warlock zoo (the board control version) is a harder matchup, although I think still favoured for the Rogue.
Logged

ycz6

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 673
  • Respect: +386
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #59 on: July 10, 2014, 01:54:45 am »
0

I've been steamrolling them.

Consecration is easiest Wrath to play around (much easier than anything that Freeze Mage or Handlock have). 1/1s never trade up.

I know they won't trade up. Did you first sentence mean Consecration is easier to play around? or that Wrath is easier to play around?

I think by Wrath he meant mass removal.
That is a confusing term to use in the context of HS.
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #60 on: July 10, 2014, 09:49:36 am »
0

Yeah, Hivemind is probably right, he has trouble having early presence so you can just hit face.

If he hits 5/6 guy that restores health that can be a problem, but other heals are not that bad.
Pyro/Equi hits hard but it's not like you cannot get back, getting back is what you are good at.

@ycz6 - Well, Wrath or Verdict as a word for mass removal is so rooted now that I cannot help it :P


In other news,
A zoo list just played Siphon Soul on me.
What the hell?
And it's rank 4.
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #61 on: July 10, 2014, 09:51:55 am »
0


In other news,
A zoo list just played Siphon Soul on me.
What the hell?
And it's rank 4.

Bahahaha. Did you lose because of it?
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #62 on: July 10, 2014, 10:43:01 am »
0

No, I did not.

I mean, he did go for face instead of trade and did play Leper Gnome (and those are signs of bad decks/players) but when turn 6 he Life Taped and ended his turn with 3 cards in hand (and against a board of a few creatures) I was.. surprised, to say at least. But than Siphon Soul next turn was even more surprising. :D

I've seen Argent Commanders and Black Knights, but Siphon Soul? Wow.
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #63 on: July 10, 2014, 11:39:46 am »
0

No, I did not.

I mean, he did go for face instead of trade and did play Leper Gnome (and those are signs of bad decks/players) but when turn 6 he Life Taped and ended his turn with 3 cards in hand (and against a board of a few creatures) I was.. surprised, to say at least. But than Siphon Soul next turn was even more surprising. :D

I've seen Argent Commanders and Black Knights, but Siphon Soul? Wow.

I guess argent is used as a replacement for doomguard. Never seen black knight in a zoo deck.
Logged

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2083
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #64 on: July 10, 2014, 12:23:58 pm »
0

At some point it stops being zoo, and starts being mid-range...
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #65 on: July 10, 2014, 01:22:49 pm »
0

At some point it stops being zoo, and starts being mid-range...

Except there aren't really any mid range warlocks
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #66 on: July 10, 2014, 03:46:56 pm »
0

No, I did not.

I mean, he did go for face instead of trade and did play Leper Gnome (and those are signs of bad decks/players) but when turn 6 he Life Taped and ended his turn with 3 cards in hand (and against a board of a few creatures) I was.. surprised, to say at least. But than Siphon Soul next turn was even more surprising. :D

I've seen Argent Commanders and Black Knights, but Siphon Soul? Wow.

I guess argent is used as a replacement for doomguard. Never seen black knight in a zoo deck.

Nah, I've seen Argent in adition to doomguard. I mean, sure, it trades very well, but 6 mana is very high for that deck. Not too thrilled.

I've seen TBK in the most recent tournament, one that was hosted by Bob (Numbericable Cup or something like that).
Logged

blueblimp

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2717
  • Respect: +1457
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #67 on: July 10, 2014, 04:02:48 pm »
0

Leper Gnome (and those are signs of bad decks/players)
Isn't Leper Gnome just a sign of a more face-oriented zoo as opposed to the standard board control-oriented zoo? Board control must be a stronger approach since that's how top players focus their zoo decks, but it seems to me that in certain matchups face zoo might do better. e.g. Against Rogue, maybe putting the additional pressure on their life total is a good thing.
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #68 on: July 10, 2014, 04:11:54 pm »
0

Yeah, I guess you do have a better matchup against zoo, but Leper Gnome goes against the philosophy of Zoo (and I've made Leper Gnome mistake before).

I mean, sure, you can play it if you want more damage to the face, but like any other one drop provides way better value.

And FWIW, I see much less rogues on EU recently.

30/17/13/10 for Lock/Druid/Rogue/Warrior according to my stats. (this season).
« Last Edit: July 10, 2014, 04:33:42 pm by Grujah »
Logged

theory

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3549
  • Respect: +5764
    • View Profile
    • Dominion Strategy
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #69 on: July 10, 2014, 04:51:18 pm »
0

No, I did not.

I mean, he did go for face instead of trade and did play Leper Gnome (and those are signs of bad decks/players) but when turn 6 he Life Taped and ended his turn with 3 cards in hand (and against a board of a few creatures) I was.. surprised, to say at least. But than Siphon Soul next turn was even more surprising. :D

I've seen Argent Commanders and Black Knights, but Siphon Soul? Wow.

I guess argent is used as a replacement for doomguard. Never seen black knight in a zoo deck.

Nah, I've seen Argent in adition to doomguard. I mean, sure, it trades very well, but 6 mana is very high for that deck. Not too thrilled.

I really don't like it.  Drawing it with your Doomguard really stinks.
Logged

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2083
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #70 on: July 10, 2014, 05:10:21 pm »
0

At some point it stops being zoo, and starts being mid-range...

Except there aren't really any mid range warlocks

Not if you insist of calling them all "zoo". But if the deck curve is really going all the way to 6, with 3+ cards up there, it's not really zoo anymore...
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #71 on: July 10, 2014, 08:22:47 pm »
0

I never understood why is it called Zoo anyway.

It has no cats, apes or lions. Not even elephants or boars.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2014, 08:28:17 pm by Grujah »
Logged

Titandrake

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1976
  • Respect: +2132
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #72 on: July 10, 2014, 09:58:44 pm »
0

I used to run 1x Siphon Soul in my board control Warlock, because there weren't that many ways to deal with big taunts in the way. In retrospect, Power Overwhelming is probably good enough, and Doomguard can break through a lot of stuff.
Logged
I have a blog! It's called Sorta Insightful. Check it out?

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #73 on: July 11, 2014, 02:46:34 am »
0

Thing is you can almost all the time trade with anything efficiently. Occasionally Sunwalker or 5/10 Tree will be a problem where you have to trade badly. I do not think that varants Siphon Soul.
Logged

blueblimp

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2717
  • Respect: +1457
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #74 on: July 11, 2014, 11:15:12 am »
0

Any 5+ mana card is going to get discarded by Soulfire or Doomguard too much to really be useful, I think.
Logged

blueblimp

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2717
  • Respect: +1457
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #75 on: July 11, 2014, 11:20:10 am »
0

Yeah, I guess you do have a better matchup against zoo, but Leper Gnome goes against the philosophy of Zoo (and I've made Leper Gnome mistake before).
What I mean is, while yes standard zoo is focused on board control and Leper Gnome does not help much with that (apart from being a 1-drop), with some changes the deck can increase its focus on face damage, and there Leper Gnome fits well, such as this: http://www.liquidhearth.com/forum/constructed-strategy/458017-eroms-16hp-lock-guide. (I haven't tried it, so I can't say whether it's any good.) Maybe such a deck wouldn't correctly be called "zoo".
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #76 on: July 11, 2014, 11:27:11 am »
0

Yeah, when you have DG in hand, you pretty much want to draw something that you can play so that you can slam DG (like, 2 drop if you have 7 mana).
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #77 on: July 13, 2014, 03:28:05 am »
0

Yeah, I guess you do have a better matchup against zoo, but Leper Gnome goes against the philosophy of Zoo (and I've made Leper Gnome mistake before).
What I mean is, while yes standard zoo is focused on board control and Leper Gnome does not help much with that (apart from being a 1-drop), with some changes the deck can increase its focus on face damage, and there Leper Gnome fits well, such as this: http://www.liquidhearth.com/forum/constructed-strategy/458017-eroms-16hp-lock-guide. (I haven't tried it, so I can't say whether it's any good.) Maybe such a deck wouldn't correctly be called "zoo".

Just tried it out, had to replace Leeroy with DG and one juggler.  Went 4-1 so far.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #78 on: July 13, 2014, 11:08:18 am »
0

Yeah, I guess you do have a better matchup against zoo, but Leper Gnome goes against the philosophy of Zoo (and I've made Leper Gnome mistake before).
What I mean is, while yes standard zoo is focused on board control and Leper Gnome does not help much with that (apart from being a 1-drop), with some changes the deck can increase its focus on face damage, and there Leper Gnome fits well, such as this: http://www.liquidhearth.com/forum/constructed-strategy/458017-eroms-16hp-lock-guide. (I haven't tried it, so I can't say whether it's any good.) Maybe such a deck wouldn't correctly be called "zoo".

I've been playing some casual where I've seen tons of zoo decks. I'm playing Priest in casual, and I always beat "zoo" decks that go for the face, while zoo decks that go for control are like playing a normal game.
Logged

blueblimp

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2717
  • Respect: +1457
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #79 on: July 13, 2014, 03:20:52 pm »
0

An interested constructed trend in zoo is the replacement of Mortal Coil by Elven Archer. I say "trend" because if you look at older zoo decks, they would typically run Mortal Coil, such as in Reynad's original popularization from February and the zoo Kolento was playing in April, whereas Kolento's recent deck runs Archer instead.

I didn't realize before how similar these two cards are, but if you think of them as both doing 1 targeted damage, then it makes sense. Here's a comparison.

Legal targets for 1 damage
Mortal Coil: Minions only.
Archer: Any character.
Note: 1 face damage is only rarely useful, but it does sometimes win games.
Edge: Archer slightly.

Bonus (beyond doing 1 damage)
Mortal Coil: Draw a card.
Elven Archer: Put a 1/1 on the board.
Note: Coil's bonus is basically Warlock's hero power, and Archer's bonus basically Paladin's hero power. Warlock's hero power is better, but since you're playing Warlock, you already have access to it.
Edge: About even.

Bonus condition
Mortal Coil: Must kill the target minion.
Elven Archer: Unconditional.
Note: There are two important cases where you may not be able to kill the minion with the damage: popping Divine Shield on 2+ health minions and activating your own Amani Berserkers. Otherwise, you can order the damage so that the Coil kills the minion. Divine Shield on 2+ health minions is relevant in the mirror (because of buffs) and against decks running Sunwalkers. (Against an empty board is also a case but you usually don't want to play Archer in that situation unless you're trying to clear your hand for Doomguard/Soulfire.)
Edge: Archer easily.
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #80 on: July 13, 2014, 03:41:09 pm »
0

I don't think Coil is good in Zoo decks, or at least it doesn't really help keep control of the board. You aren't searching for cards like in a handlock deck, you just need minion presence, so I agree that Archer easily beats Coil for typical zoo decks.
Logged

blueblimp

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2717
  • Respect: +1457
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #81 on: July 13, 2014, 04:09:45 pm »
0

As I understand it, Coil is mostly in zoo to help with the mirror.
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #82 on: July 18, 2014, 06:49:48 am »
0

Is control Rogue a thing?

Cuz a guy just assassinated my Doom Guard.
Nearly costed me the game.
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #83 on: July 18, 2014, 07:33:16 am »
0

Is control Rogue a thing?

Cuz a guy just assassinated my Doom Guard.
Nearly costed me the game.

My Rogue for doing quests is control ish. It does pretty well against Zoo with all the early Si;agent and backstab stuff +hero power. Plus yeah, killing those Zoomguards is fun.
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #84 on: July 18, 2014, 08:10:52 am »
+4

I've just hit


Playing zoolock, here's the list:


89-59 zoolock stats. (quite worse if I include other things I've played before zoolock this month).
Logged

blueblimp

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2717
  • Respect: +1457
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #85 on: July 18, 2014, 11:23:40 am »
0

Nice. Since you're running Amani Berserker, I propose replacing the coils with archers, since they can activate the berserker to trade with 5 health minions, but also based off the analysis in my earlier post http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=11325.msg399021#msg399021 that archer may be better in general.
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #86 on: July 18, 2014, 07:14:53 pm »
0

I didn't try it, so I'm just speculating, but Archer seems worse to me than Coil.

Ok, I mean, if you go with things that "one can do and other cant":

Archer:
Can pop shield and leave 1/1 body. (best vs Sunwalker)
Can activate Amani and leave 1/1 body. (though I only play 1 Amani)
Can shoot face.
Sometimes you have Coil and Doomguard/0 mana burn in hand and you don't really want to draw as you are going to discard that card anyway.

Coil:
Efficiently makes your deck 2 cards thinner (Flare effect) and can more  dig for that one card that you need (Doomguard/burn/Wolf/Sargent usualy). With hero power, you can dig for 3.
Can kill your own creature when you know your enemy is going to board-clear you to draw and card and get rid of what is usually a bad card in such matchups.


So, Archer seems to have a bit of a edge, but..
If you ignore these edge cases, and go for the primary use of the card (finish 1 hp enemies) which you do 90% of the time.. Coil wins hands down IMO.
I mean, Archer seems to be like a Coil that always draws WISP. And I don't want to draw wisp almost ever. You want to draw your strong cards.
Your comparison with Paladin/Lock powers is wrong -this doesn't cost you life, and Lock power IS WAY better in your deck, as your deck is made to abuse that power and to be able to put 2 strong cheap bodies each and every turn. Coil allows that. 1/1 is not a strong body.
And this is way more important that the little bit of versatility that Archer gives, I think.

As I said, this is without playing the card. I might try to to play it and prove myself wrong, but not sure. (I also didn't like Mukla in Zoo, FWIW).
Logged

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3260
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +1868
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #87 on: July 18, 2014, 08:15:05 pm »
0

Does anyone feel like you find harder opponents in Casual mode than in Ranked Mode? Ranked mode has a steadily increasing strength of players as you go up the ladder, but at Level 15 or so on ladder I find all sorts of crazy legendary decks in Casual, or at least decks that are no less standard-good than what you find on ladder.

Also, I finally got around to building a basic Mage deck to complete my quests. It ended up looking like this:


I'm quite surprised at how well it's done so far. I won 5 games in a row with it, bringing me from rank 14 to rank 11. 2-3 of those games were against Handlock. I'm guessing burn Mage plays favourably against Handlock?

I have no Idea why I didn't throw in an Azure Drake in there, but I'll add one somehow next time I play this deck. One thing I noticed is how good it feels to NOT go nuts powering the wyrm. There really is no need going Wyrm->Coin->Image on turn 1. If you need the extra attack, you can do Coin-Image next turn, but more likely the wyrm dies to frostbolt or wrath or something.
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #88 on: July 19, 2014, 03:27:23 am »
0

I'd say that Burn Mage has favorable matchup against Handlock. Handlock's main thing is that he can get low HP and than put giants and taunt up, winning soonafter; Freeze Mage punishes that cuz his spells can finish up even through taunts.
Logged

Drab Emordnilap

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1804
  • Shuffle iT Username: Drab Emordnilap
  • Luther Bell Hendricks V
  • Respect: +1815
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #89 on: July 19, 2014, 09:24:58 am »
0

I didn't try it, so I'm just speculating, but Archer seems worse to me than Coil.

Ok, I mean, if you go with things that "one can do and other cant":

Archer:
Can pop shield and leave 1/1 body. (best vs Sunwalker)
Can activate Amani and leave 1/1 body. (though I only play 1 Amani)
Can shoot face.
Sometimes you have Coil and Doomguard/0 mana burn in hand and you don't really want to draw as you are going to discard that card anyway.

Coil:
Efficiently makes your deck 2 cards thinner (Flare effect) and can more  dig for that one card that you need (Doomguard/burn/Wolf/Sargent usualy). With hero power, you can dig for 3.
Can kill your own creature when you know your enemy is going to board-clear you to draw and card and get rid of what is usually a bad card in such matchups.


So, Archer seems to have a bit of a edge, but..
If you ignore these edge cases, and go for the primary use of the card (finish 1 hp enemies) which you do 90% of the time.. Coil wins hands down IMO.
I mean, Archer seems to be like a Coil that always draws WISP. And I don't want to draw wisp almost ever. You want to draw your strong cards.
Your comparison with Paladin/Lock powers is wrong -this doesn't cost you life, and Lock power IS WAY better in your deck, as your deck is made to abuse that power and to be able to put 2 strong cheap bodies each and every turn. Coil allows that. 1/1 is not a strong body.
And this is way more important that the little bit of versatility that Archer gives, I think.

As I said, this is without playing the card. I might try to to play it and prove myself wrong, but not sure. (I also didn't like Mukla in Zoo, FWIW).

An activated Mortal Coil is better than Elvish Archer, but obviously an unactivated one is worse. Elvish Archer gets stuck in your hand less often.

Not to say it's always better. It depends on the deck and matchup. Honestly I would probably play one of each so that if you draw both you have more flexibility.
Logged

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3260
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +1868
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #90 on: July 19, 2014, 10:20:08 am »
0

I'd say that Burn Mage has favorable matchup against Handlock. Handlock's main thing is that he can get low HP and than put giants and taunt up, winning soonafter; Freeze Mage punishes that cuz his spells can finish up even through taunts.
I was noticing that my wins vs. Handlock happened really quickly, like turn 6 or 7 (before even the possibility of Jaraxxus). My deck has more early game aggression (patially because I don't have many good late-game minions in my collection). The Warlock's own hero ability helps in getting the Warlock down to the dangerous HP<15 state. At that point, I can use Polymorph to get through 1 round of taunts and then next turn I can Freball/Frostbolt/HeroPower for the finish. The Faceless also finds lots of good targets against Handlock.
Logged

blueblimp

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2717
  • Respect: +1457
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #91 on: July 19, 2014, 11:17:06 am »
0

I mean, Archer seems to be like a Coil that always draws WISP. And I don't want to draw wisp almost ever. You want to draw your strong cards.
Very nice analysis. OK, this definitely convinces me that activated coil is better than archer.

About Mukla, even though I kinda like him in zoo, he's pretty marginal. There are a significant number of situations where I don't want to play him. The reason I keep him in is: he's great when played on curve except in the mirror, and he's great to drop when your opponent just wiped everything off the board, because he immediately re-establishes a hard-to-remove board presence.
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #92 on: July 19, 2014, 01:23:39 pm »
0

I agree with mostly everyhing about Mukla (on curve he is a monster, esp as you use other minions to trade with anything he puts, even buffed), but later in game there are too many situations when I find myself unwilling to play him, so I dropped him.
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #93 on: July 19, 2014, 07:38:12 pm »
0

Faced my very first Golden Hero today.  Golden Mage...rank 16?  How do you win 500 ranked and sit at 16?
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2083
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #94 on: July 19, 2014, 08:40:47 pm »
0

Does anyone feel like you find harder opponents in Casual mode than in Ranked Mode? Ranked mode has a steadily increasing strength of players as you go up the ladder, but at Level 15 or so on ladder I find all sorts of crazy legendary decks in Casual, or at least decks that are no less standard-good than what you find on ladder.
Casual is much more unpredictable because high ranked players don't want to lose their stars playing crazy decks in ranked, but will play them in casual instead. ranked is a bunch of similar decks mostly.

Faced my very first Golden Hero today.  Golden Mage...rank 16?  How do you win 500 ranked and sit at 16?

Ranks reset every month. He probably played a lot in previous months but not that much yet this month.
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #95 on: July 19, 2014, 09:46:51 pm »
0

Quote from: HiveMindEmulator

Faced my very first Golden Hero today.  Golden Mage...rank 16?  How do you win 500 ranked and sit at 16?

Ranks reset every month. He probably played a lot in previous months but not that much yet this month.

I thought that at first, but the month is 2/3 gone.  Maybe he was VLA.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #96 on: July 20, 2014, 06:27:53 am »
0

Does anyone feel like you find harder opponents in Casual mode than in Ranked Mode? Ranked mode has a steadily increasing strength of players as you go up the ladder, but at Level 15 or so on ladder I find all sorts of crazy legendary decks in Casual, or at least decks that are no less standard-good than what you find on ladder.
Casual is much more unpredictable because high ranked players don't want to lose their stars playing crazy decks in ranked, but will play them in casual instead. ranked is a bunch of similar decks mostly.

True this.
I use casual to test out new decks/play out decks that I like but are not as good/do quests with random decks.
(though now in legend I can do these things in ladder too :P)
Logged

blueblimp

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2717
  • Respect: +1457
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #97 on: July 20, 2014, 04:03:41 pm »
0

To give some idea what the classes at NA high ranks look like this season, here are the stats from the games I played:
Code: [Select]
=== July 2014 Ranks 1-5 Class Distribution

Class Count Percent
Druid 48 25.5%
Hunter 5 2.7%
Mage 13 6.9%
Paladin 5 2.7%
Priest 1 0.5%
Rogue 53 28.2%
Shaman 12 6.4%
Warlock 38 20.2%
Warrior 13 6.9%

Total 188
« Last Edit: July 20, 2014, 04:05:14 pm by blueblimp »
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #98 on: July 25, 2014, 10:10:04 pm »
0

Is Coldlight Oracle for draw a thing?  Just had a Druid not otherwise using murlocs go Coldlight-Panda-Coldlight to draw 4 cards...for me too.

Drew lethal and killed him.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

ycz6

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 673
  • Respect: +386
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #99 on: July 25, 2014, 10:38:10 pm »
0

I think there are some Druid decks which use Coldlight and Naturalize to try to get you to mill (discard) due to handsize. Not particularly common or good, AFAIK.

Edit:
« Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 10:42:33 pm by ycz6 »
Logged

blueblimp

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2717
  • Respect: +1457
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #100 on: July 26, 2014, 02:42:08 am »
+1

Coldlight Oracle is a staple of the Backspace Rogue deck, which is ultra-aggressive and low-curve, relying on the Oracle to draw cards when it runs out. Oracle sometimes shows up in Miracle too to help vs Handlock.

The thing about Oracle is that it's only good if your deck spends cards much faster than your opponent's. If your deck and your opponent's deck spend cards at similar speeds, then the draw helps you both about equally, and meanwhile you spent 3 mana on a 2/2, so you're behind. For example, in a Backspace mirror, you really don't want to be the first to play Oracle if you can avoid it.
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #101 on: July 27, 2014, 09:23:18 am »
0

I feel like defender of argus is a key card I don't have...
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

theory

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3549
  • Respect: +5764
    • View Profile
    • Dominion Strategy
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #102 on: July 27, 2014, 09:45:33 am »
0

Bonus (beyond doing 1 damage)
Mortal Coil: Draw a card.
Elven Archer: Put a 1/1 on the board.
Note: Coil's bonus is basically Warlock's hero power, and Archer's bonus basically Paladin's hero power. Warlock's hero power is better, but since you're playing Warlock, you already have access to it.
Edge: About even.

I feel like this is hugely advantageous in Coil's favor.  For example, Murloc Tidehunter is a 2/1 but if you swapped its power from "Summon a 1/1" to "Battlecry: draw a card" it loses an attack and turns into Novice Engineer.
Logged

theory

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3549
  • Respect: +5764
    • View Profile
    • Dominion Strategy
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #103 on: July 27, 2014, 09:45:51 am »
0

I feel like defender of argus is a key card I don't have...
If you plan on playing zoo, yeah, you need Defender of Argus.
Logged

blueblimp

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2717
  • Respect: +1457
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #104 on: July 27, 2014, 10:31:06 am »
0

Bonus (beyond doing 1 damage)
Mortal Coil: Draw a card.
Elven Archer: Put a 1/1 on the board.
Note: Coil's bonus is basically Warlock's hero power, and Archer's bonus basically Paladin's hero power. Warlock's hero power is better, but since you're playing Warlock, you already have access to it.
Edge: About even.

I feel like this is hugely advantageous in Coil's favor.  For example, Murloc Tidehunter is a 2/1 but if you swapped its power from "Summon a 1/1" to "Battlecry: draw a card" it loses an attack and turns into Novice Engineer.
I agree that in general drawing a card is much better than summoning a 1/1, but for Warlock specifically, there's an argument that the edge isn't as much (although I've come around to agreeing that drawing is still a bit better), for two reasons: one is that you can already draw cards using your hero power, so you're not as card-limited as other classes; the other is that you may want to clear cards from your hand to play Doomguard or Soulfire.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2014, 10:32:13 am by blueblimp »
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #105 on: July 27, 2014, 05:11:08 pm »
0

I feel like defender of argus is a key card I don't have...
If you plan on playing zoo, yeah, you need Defender of Argus.

I'm playing a variation of the 16hp lock from liquidhearth.  In mirrors or against Zoo, I lose because of the dang taunts.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #106 on: July 27, 2014, 05:11:45 pm »
0

Also opened Doomhammer recently.  My shammy skills are lacking.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

Titandrake

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1976
  • Respect: +2132
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #107 on: July 27, 2014, 05:39:18 pm »
0

Also opened Doomhammer recently.  My shammy skills are lacking.

Doomhammer's a fun card, especially with Rockbiter, but it's hard to see a Shaman deck working without Lightning Storm.
Logged
I have a blog! It's called Sorta Insightful. Check it out?

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #108 on: July 28, 2014, 01:27:42 am »
0

Also opened Doomhammer recently.  My shammy skills are lacking.

Doomhammer's a fun card, especially with Rockbiter, but it's hard to see a Shaman deck working without Lightning Storm.

I used Doomhammer for a while in my shaman deck, but I found it underwhelming. It's good with rockbiter, but otherwise you can't really hit minions because Shaman has no healing, and 4 face damage a turn isn't the best for a 5 drop with overload. I have Al'Akir which fills that spot well, and does many more things for his cost, and I've been doing a lot better with him then with Doomhammer.
Logged

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6937
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9006
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #109 on: August 04, 2014, 09:06:14 am »
0

Well that was odd.

I just took out an Ice Queen mage--golden Alex, multiple golden cards and it looked like the standard build that Trump has used--with an aggro mage.

Is that just a bad matchup for freeze mage, or did I get insanely lucky?
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

popsofctown

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5033
  • Respect: +2540
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #110 on: August 04, 2014, 09:20:06 am »
0

Aggro Mage is a classical counter to freeze mage
Logged
Also you probably are an expert if you buy two bureaucrats early.

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #111 on: August 04, 2014, 11:20:55 am »
0

I just had an 11 game win streak that brought me up to rank 11. I feel legend rank is coming this month.
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #112 on: August 04, 2014, 12:59:22 pm »
0

Backlight Rogue. Going vs Warlock.

T1 He passes. I play Leper Gnome
T2. He Life Taps. I assume Handlock, so I play Sinister Strike + Cold Blood. Unless he has Mortal Coil, he cannot remove it till turn 4, and even if he has, 4 damage is not that bad for 1 mana. I attack for 6.
T3. He plays Knife Juggler (obv not Handlock) + Void Walker. Misses my Leper. I Sap the Juggler and Eviscerate the Walker, going for 6 more (Walker is a bigger problem, I have to sack Leper if he replays it).
T4. He replays Knife Juggler, along with 2 Abusive Sargeants - both miss my Gnome. I feel sorry as he concedes after I dagger up, hit the Juggler and Bladeflurry.  :P
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #113 on: August 04, 2014, 01:00:01 pm »
0

Also I love this new tech of Lock playing Void Terrors, it's so satisfying to Sap those guys.
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #114 on: August 04, 2014, 01:33:50 pm »
0

Also I love this new tech of Lock playing Void Terrors, it's so satisfying to Sap those guys.

It's annoying, but I'm ok with keeping my nerubian.
Logged

Twistedarcher

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 487
  • Respect: +172
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #115 on: August 05, 2014, 10:38:11 pm »
0

I've now played 9 zoo decks in a row on ladder.
Logged

nkirbit

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 238
  • Respect: +45
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #116 on: August 06, 2014, 04:39:12 pm »
0

So the card I was most excited about from Naxx finally came out... Reincarnate!  Here's the list I'm starting with, it's doing okay so far, although it certainly needs some more tweaks (I'm thinking about throwing Ragnaros in.  I also don't own Al'akir, although he'd probably have a place here.)  :

2x Earth Shock
2x Lightning Bolt
2x Rockbiter Weapon
2x Reincarnate
1x Bloodmage Thalnos
2x Flametongue Totem
2x Nerubian Egg
2x Feral Spirit
2x Hex
2x Lightning Storm
2x Unbound Elemental
1x Leeroy Jenkins
1x Senjin Shieldmasta
1x Doomhammer
2x Azure Drake
1x Cairne Bloodhoof
2x Fire Elemental
1x Sylvanas Windrunner
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #117 on: August 06, 2014, 06:07:28 pm »
0

I've now played 9 zoo decks in a row on ladder.

I feel for you. Samesies here.
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #118 on: August 06, 2014, 06:09:01 pm »
0

Got ~3200 dust. (Can get aditional 1200 by disenchanting Nozdromu, Beast and Millhouse, but I dont wanna  :-[)

What to get?
I lean towards Cairne and Ragnaros.

Here is what I am missing:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wQ-8hbo9DEUUEoASZI-ccuTCTUajWiplrgqCuO1Dy2A/edit#gid=0
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #119 on: August 06, 2014, 06:09:59 pm »
0

Got ~3200 dust. (Can get aditional 1200 by disenchanting Nozdromu, Beast and Millhouse, but I dont wanna  :-[)

What to get?
I lean towards Cairne and Ragnaros.

Here is what I am missing:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wQ-8hbo9DEUUEoASZI-ccuTCTUajWiplrgqCuO1Dy2A/edit#gid=0

Do you have Angry Chicken?  If not, you should craft 32 Angry Chickens.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

theory

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3549
  • Respect: +5764
    • View Profile
    • Dominion Strategy
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #120 on: August 06, 2014, 06:13:19 pm »
0

Got ~3200 dust. (Can get aditional 1200 by disenchanting Nozdromu, Beast and Millhouse, but I dont wanna  :-[)

What to get?
I lean towards Cairne and Ragnaros.

Here is what I am missing:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wQ-8hbo9DEUUEoASZI-ccuTCTUajWiplrgqCuO1Dy2A/edit#gid=0

Do you have Angry Chicken?  If not, you should craft 32 Angry Chickens.

That sounds like either a movie about a very large, very squawky jury OR a Zoo deck made by someone with a fundamental misunderstanding about what Zoo decks are.
Logged

Twistedarcher

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 487
  • Respect: +172
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #121 on: August 06, 2014, 06:14:17 pm »
0

Got ~3200 dust. (Can get aditional 1200 by disenchanting Nozdromu, Beast and Millhouse, but I dont wanna  :-[)

What to get?
I lean towards Cairne and Ragnaros.

Here is what I am missing:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wQ-8hbo9DEUUEoASZI-ccuTCTUajWiplrgqCuO1Dy2A/edit#gid=0

Alex + Thalnos, then you can play freeze mage!
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #122 on: August 06, 2014, 06:16:06 pm »
0

I only have 1/4 giants, unforunately.
I also really rally want to get Ancient of Lores. And I have such bad luck with epics, I opened only 1 of 4 giants and 0 of 4 Ancients, but I believe 4 or 5 freaking Spellbenders.
Logged

Twistedarcher

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 487
  • Respect: +172
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #123 on: August 06, 2014, 06:18:18 pm »
0

I only have 1/4 giants, unforunately.
I also really rally want to get Ancient of Lores. And I have such bad luck with epics, I opened only 1 of 4 giants and 0 of 4 Ancients, but I believe 4 or 5 freaking Spellbenders.

Are you supposed to play giants in freeze mage? I don't have them in the deck I built.
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #124 on: August 06, 2014, 06:23:17 pm »
0

Oh, you are right, rarely they are played. My bad.
I do lack 1 Doomsayer, but that's actually not a bad idea as those legendaries are playable in other decks too. Not as wide as Rag or Cairne, but .. fine.
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #125 on: August 06, 2014, 06:43:53 pm »
0

I only have 1/4 giants, unforunately.
I also really rally want to get Ancient of Lores. And I have such bad luck with epics, I opened only 1 of 4 giants and 0 of 4 Ancients, but I believe 4 or 5 freaking Spellbenders.

I've opened 3 Ancients of Lore but zero War.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

Titandrake

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1976
  • Respect: +2132
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #126 on: August 06, 2014, 06:50:34 pm »
0

I only have 1/4 giants, unforunately.
I also really rally want to get Ancient of Lores. And I have such bad luck with epics, I opened only 1 of 4 giants and 0 of 4 Ancients, but I believe 4 or 5 freaking Spellbenders.

I've opened 3 Ancients of Lore but zero War.

I mean, that's good - you can substitute Ironbark Protector for War if you need a fat taunt.

My epic luck is weird, but I've mostly gotten good ones - 2 Blood Knights, 1 Shadowform, Sea Giant. I'm still missing Wild Pyromancer though...
Logged
I have a blog! It's called Sorta Insightful. Check it out?

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2083
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #127 on: August 06, 2014, 10:21:44 pm »
0

I only have 1/4 giants, unforunately.
I also really rally want to get Ancient of Lores. And I have such bad luck with epics, I opened only 1 of 4 giants and 0 of 4 Ancients, but I believe 4 or 5 freaking Spellbenders.

I've opened 3 Ancients of Lore but zero War.

Lore >> War. Basically every Druid deck uses 2x Lore. War is only if you're playing a high curve ramp deck.
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #128 on: August 06, 2014, 10:26:56 pm »
0

Bonus (beyond doing 1 damage)
Mortal Coil: Draw a card.
Elven Archer: Put a 1/1 on the board.
Note: Coil's bonus is basically Warlock's hero power, and Archer's bonus basically Paladin's hero power. Warlock's hero power is better, but since you're playing Warlock, you already have access to it.
Edge: About even.

I feel like this is hugely advantageous in Coil's favor.  For example, Murloc Tidehunter is a 2/1 but if you swapped its power from "Summon a 1/1" to "Battlecry: draw a card" it loses an attack and turns into Novice Engineer.
I agree that in general drawing a card is much better than summoning a 1/1, but for Warlock specifically, there's an argument that the edge isn't as much (although I've come around to agreeing that drawing is still a bit better), for two reasons: one is that you can already draw cards using your hero power, so you're not as card-limited as other classes; the other is that you may want to clear cards from your hand to play Doomguard or Soulfire.

I was thinking about this today on the bus.  It seems to me that Elven Archer is basically

Mage Hero Power + Paladin Hero Power for 1 mana.  Put that way, it seems very strong.

I know the argument between EA and MC is draw a card vs. token, but there are other ways to frame it, I think.

If you view MC is a minion-only limited mage power + Warlock Hero Power, it looks arguable either way.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2083
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #129 on: August 06, 2014, 10:30:23 pm »
+1

^Well Coil is more like Mage Power + Warlock Power + Warrior Power...
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #130 on: August 06, 2014, 10:36:06 pm »
0

^Well Coil is more like Mage Power + Warlock Power + Warrior Power...

How is Coil like +2 armor?
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2083
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #131 on: August 06, 2014, 10:38:24 pm »
0

Warlock Power + Warrior Power = net no health change and draw a card.
Logged

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1461
  • Respect: +517
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #132 on: August 07, 2014, 12:03:39 pm »
0

I just played a game against a control Warlock deck and it was really strange. I thought he had a Zoo deck with a bad mulligan when he opened with a solo Void Walker with no followup, but then he transitioned into neutral control cards. (Yeti, SSC, Senjin Shieldmaster, Gnomish Inventors)

The game itself ended up going really long with our minions just smashing into each other trying to eke out a small advantage. We were both drawing plenty of cards, him through his ability and me through a protected Mana Tide Totem and a Gadgetzan. We just kept trading cards without ever getting an advantage (at one point in the early game I would have probably lost if I hadn't summoned a lucky +1 Spellpower Totem before a Lightning Storm) until he made a mistake and left a Flame Elemental that he could have killed on the board. I followed it up with another creature and a Defender of Argus. He wiped the board with two Hellfires (who plays two Hellfires!?), but it also wiped his board presence and I was able to quickly take board control then.

Has anyone ever seen a Warlock deck like this? It gave my Shaman tempo/control deck a run for its money, but that was at least partially card draw luck.

Edit: I should add, I constantly had no idea what he was going to play next which made the game require significantly more grey matter than usual.
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #133 on: August 07, 2014, 12:23:57 pm »
0

I just played a game against a control Warlock deck and it was really strange. I thought he had a Zoo deck with a bad mulligan when he opened with a solo Void Walker with no followup, but then he transitioned into neutral control cards. (Yeti, SSC, Senjin Shieldmaster, Gnomish Inventors)

The game itself ended up going really long with our minions just smashing into each other trying to eke out a small advantage. We were both drawing plenty of cards, him through his ability and me through a protected Mana Tide Totem and a Gadgetzan. We just kept trading cards without ever getting an advantage (at one point in the early game I would have probably lost if I hadn't summoned a lucky +1 Spellpower Totem before a Lightning Storm) until he made a mistake and left a Flame Elemental that he could have killed on the board. I followed it up with another creature and a Defender of Argus. He wiped the board with two Hellfires (who plays two Hellfires!?), but it also wiped his board presence and I was able to quickly take board control then.

Has anyone ever seen a Warlock deck like this? It gave my Shaman tempo/control deck a run for its money, but that was at least partially card draw luck.

Edit: I should add, I constantly had no idea what he was going to play next which made the game require significantly more grey matter than usual.

I've lost to decks that to completely defy all normal standards. There was a warrior deck that played Goldshire Footman, along with all kinds of weird low cards that no one uses, then two Brawls (what?) and some big minions, I think a Ragnaros. My Shaman deck, that has taken me to rank 8 one season, just couldn't handle it. I couldn't take into account a second brawl because I've never seen someone run two, especially when they start spamming crappy small minions at the beginning.
Logged

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2083
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #134 on: August 07, 2014, 12:28:59 pm »
0

I just played a game against a control Warlock deck and it was really strange. I thought he had a Zoo deck with a bad mulligan when he opened with a solo Void Walker with no followup, but then he transitioned into neutral control cards. (Yeti, SSC, Senjin Shieldmaster, Gnomish Inventors)
Maybe he was playing the best Warlock deck he could make with all free cards.

Quote
(who plays two Hellfires!?)
A lot of people...
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #135 on: August 12, 2014, 05:41:55 pm »
0

Got ~3200 dust. (Can get aditional 1200 by disenchanting Nozdromu, Beast and Millhouse, but I dont wanna  :-[)

What to get?
I lean towards Cairne and Ragnaros.

Here is what I am missing:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wQ-8hbo9DEUUEoASZI-ccuTCTUajWiplrgqCuO1Dy2A/edit#gid=0

I think I'll just wait until Naxx ends, for meta to stabilize and than see what I like the most. Seems most reasonable.
Logged

ycz6

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 673
  • Respect: +386
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #136 on: August 16, 2014, 01:22:35 am »
0

His board: Northshire Cleric, Nerubian Egg, Defender of Argus (2/2)
My board: Sylvanas (4 health and Ancestral Spirit)

His previous turn: Heal my Sylvanas from 2 to 4 to prevent me from suiciding it into his Argus.
My turn: Play Leeroy and Baron Rivendare. Kill the Egg with Leeroy so he summons a 4/4 Nerubian, suicide my Sylvanas into the Nerubian to steal his Cleric and Defender and summon two Sylvanases. Add insult to injury by getting a Healing Totem and drawing a card via his Cleric.
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #137 on: August 20, 2014, 06:02:12 pm »
0

I recently switched from midrange Hunter to something akin to Amaz's Control Paladin list:
http://i.imgur.com/yr3cY3Q.png

I don't have Harrison nor any Naxx cards so I replaced them with other stuff.
I also consider putting in second Acolyte of Pain as he proves himself to be fine, and crafting Ragnaros just so that can get games ended faster, as it can sometimes be such a bore to finish your opponent once you get in control.
Logged

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1461
  • Respect: +517
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #138 on: August 25, 2014, 11:17:17 am »
0

Soooo this just happened:
http://i.imgur.com/Onl4Aw5.jpg?1?6454

The -6 is Baine #1 exploding to a Fireball. 5 Cairne's played in 1 game. "The eye's of the Earth Mother are upon us... all of us."

(No Bloodhoof's survived this bloody brawl, the last was turned into a sheep.)
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #139 on: August 25, 2014, 12:32:52 pm »
0

Reincarnate+Kelthuzad. Why didn't I think of that...

« Last Edit: August 25, 2014, 12:37:18 pm by KingZog3 »
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #140 on: August 25, 2014, 12:33:06 pm »
0

How do I make it smaller?
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 9893
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +9907
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #141 on: August 25, 2014, 12:35:17 pm »
0

How do I make it smaller?


Like this.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's new 2017 album for free

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #142 on: August 25, 2014, 12:37:38 pm »
0

yay. Now I know
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #143 on: August 28, 2014, 12:06:53 pm »
+3

I did it!!!! Legend! Gaaah! So excited. All look at my amazing card back.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 9893
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +9907
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #144 on: August 30, 2014, 01:36:00 pm »
0

My aggro Paladin deck looks like this now, but I'm not sure about the 30th card. It's the second Bluegill Warrior right now, but I'm also considering a second Loot Hoarder or a Kobold Geomancer. What I'd really want in that slot is another Ironbeak Owl, but I don't have two, and crafting a common just feels wrong.

What should I do?
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's new 2017 album for free

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #145 on: August 30, 2014, 05:08:55 pm »
0

Only 1 Divine Favor? I cannot justitify that!
Logged

Titandrake

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1976
  • Respect: +2132
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #146 on: August 30, 2014, 05:20:32 pm »
0

I think Paladin aggro doesn't want to run Hammer of Wrath - it's not great tempo wise, and I'd think you wouldn't be able to use the extra card from it well enough, and it's not the best finisher.

You also really want the 2nd Divine Favor. If you have Coldlight, you may want to consider that over Hammer, but I could be wrong about the usefulness of 3 damage that goes over taunts.
Logged
I have a blog! It's called Sorta Insightful. Check it out?

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2083
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #147 on: August 30, 2014, 06:54:50 pm »
0

I think Paladin aggro doesn't want to run Hammer of Wrath - it's not great tempo wise, and I'd think you wouldn't be able to use the extra card from it well enough, and it's not the best finisher.

Why won't you be able to use the extra card well enough? The point of the deck is that most of the cards are low mana cost... Yes +card is not a great effect when you have Divine Favor, but you don't always have it. That's why stuff like Hammer and Coldlight are important -- you need to thin the deck enough that you can draw your important cards, like your Divine Favor and your finisher(s).
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 9893
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +9907
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #148 on: August 30, 2014, 07:09:05 pm »
0

I also don't have a second Divine Favor.

Hammer is so versatile I'm rarely displeased when I topdeck one, and sometimes it's exactly what I need. I don't know though, it's certainly possible that it's less useful in the meta of the higher ranks, but here at rank 11 it has been great so far.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's new 2017 album for free

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #149 on: September 01, 2014, 05:19:38 pm »
0

Now that I have Capt. Greenskin, parrots, etc., I'm testing the weapons-based warrior pirate deck, which is fun and sometimes strong.  Does anyone see a deck like this, or other "themed"decks (murloc, dragon, charge, etc.) having success in ranked play?
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

ycz6

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 673
  • Respect: +386
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #150 on: September 02, 2014, 02:14:27 am »
0

Well, a variety of Deathrattle-themed decks are pretty popular in Ranked, with a Zoo variant and midrange/control Shaman being the most popular. I hear Beast-based Hunter decks are pretty good too.

I suppose you knew about those already, though.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 9893
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +9907
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #151 on: September 02, 2014, 02:26:55 am »
0

I've seen some Murloc aggro decks, mostly Warlock, although the fact that I've seen them doesn't necessarily mean that they are good.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's new 2017 album for free

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #152 on: September 02, 2014, 03:14:18 am »
0

Yeah, I feel like "beast hunter" is a bit bigger than a theme, and I've see the murlocs on occasion.  Clearly there are flavor purposes to some of these cards, and some of them have built in synergy, but I'm not sure how great they are.

My take on the Warrior Pirate is currently:

1 Drops:
Upgrade! x2
Southsea Deckhand x2 (charge if weapon equipped)

2 Drops:
Fiery War Axe x2
Bloodsail Raider x2 (gain attack equal to weapon's attack)
Captain's Parrot x2

3 Drops:
Shield Block x2 (for draw)
Deathlord x2
King Mukla
Shade of Naxx
Southsea Captain x2 (+1/+1 to all Pirates)

4 Drops:
Death's Bite x2
Arathi Weaponsmith
Dread Corsair x2 (minus mana cost for weapon attack)
Kor'kron Elite x2

5 Drops:
Arcanite Reaper
Brawl
Captain Greenskin (+1/+1 to weapon)

6+ Drops:
Gorehowl
Alexstrasza


It's...okay...I feel like Mukla's a distraction, Shade of Naxx is lamish, and I'm not sold on my 5 drop choices.  I just find it hard to get finish opponents (and I don't own Leeroy).
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

Titandrake

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1976
  • Respect: +2132
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #153 on: September 02, 2014, 03:44:32 am »
0

For deathrattle-themed decks, there's a deck called Undertaker Priest that has been going around. See Kibler's decklists at http://www.liquidhearth.com/forum/hearthstone/465636-impact-defeats-kibler-in-sunshine-open for a sample version.

One nice thing about it is that many of the cards are either common or come from Naxxramus, so if you've finished Naxxramus you don't actually need much dust. Unfortunately, the 6-cost and above cards start getting a little pricy, and I don't think there's great replacements for Cairne or Sylvanas.
Logged
I have a blog! It's called Sorta Insightful. Check it out?

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #154 on: September 02, 2014, 08:46:37 am »
0

Pirate decks are pretty gimmicky. Cap. Greenskin has terrible stats, and you can't play him usually till much too late in the game. Raider is good, but most of the other pirates  are justn ot good enough.
Logged

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6937
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9006
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #155 on: September 02, 2014, 10:47:37 am »
0

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like 6 weapons plus a Weaponsmith is going a tad overboard.
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2083
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #156 on: September 02, 2014, 06:26:55 pm »
0

A Pirate Warrior is probably just a weaker version of face Warrior. It's not good for control because none of the Pirates really generate card advantage, and you're forcing yourself to play a lot of low mana minions. The strategy would be to use the weapons to kill off their stuff while you populate with Pirates to hit them in the face with. You have plenty of weapon charges, so in most cases you don't hold back on using them for face damage. The epic Pirate is pretty terrible (you're not likely to have multiple Pirates out when you play him, and even if you do, it's just +1 damage before they kill your Captain, but I guess you have to have it for theme. You probably don't want Gorehowl or Alex or Brawl, as those are control cards. You might want an Execute or 2 to deal with a big taunt or something (though maybe Owl is better since it also handles deathrattle things), and you probably want Heroic Strike and Mortal Strike for more damage. Argent Commander is nice if you have space. I'm also not sold on Deathlord, since you don't have that many low cost minions to protect. If you had more 1-drops, it would make sense, but it's not doing much currently.

I'd say from your current deck, remove:
Shade, Brawl, Gorehowl, Alex, 2x Deathlord and one Death's Bite
add:
2x Heroic, 1x Mortal, 2x Commander, 1x Owl, and a 2nd Reaper and start working from there.
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #157 on: September 02, 2014, 06:42:56 pm »
0

I've actually made 9 decks, one for each class (also I got first Wing Nax):
Paladin Control (Might switch to some weenie strat)
Hunter Midrange
Backlight Rogue
Egg/Void Zoo
Burn Mage
Shaman Control
Face Warrior
Control Priest
Whatever-I-have-brew Token/Midrange Druid

So I picked one at random, and play that one until I lose, and than I switch to the class that I lost to. Just for funsies and seeing which gets most play that way. Also if I lose to mirror I re-random.  ;D
Logged

theory

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3549
  • Respect: +5764
    • View Profile
    • Dominion Strategy
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #158 on: September 02, 2014, 07:02:02 pm »
0

Here's the Warrior deck I'm running now.  I haven't found a similar analog online though I'm sure someone has come up with the same basic concept previously.



Cards that I've found vital to this deck:

* Dread Corsair
* The Black Knight

Cards I'm considering replacing:

* Commanding Shout
* Arathi Weaponsmith

I think Grommash would be a solid addition but I don't own him.
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #159 on: September 02, 2014, 07:05:04 pm »
0

My first warrior deck was based around the damage your own minions for enrage and other benefits concept.  Feels strong.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #160 on: September 02, 2014, 07:31:30 pm »
0

Commanding shout is just not that playable. You leave your minims wry vulnerable, and you already need a bunch front to be worth it, AND they need to be attacking things that would otherwise kill them. I suspect you mostly want to show off the golden card :P
Logged

Titandrake

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1976
  • Respect: +2132
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #161 on: September 02, 2014, 09:02:31 pm »
0

I personally like Weaponsmith, but it's not the most incredible card.

I'd say...

- Cut out Commanding Shout, it's nice when it works and not that useful when it doesn't.
- Cut Unstable Ghouls, since I think it's more of a delaying card. My feeling is that they can be good, but Enrage Warrior is a more aggressive deck and Unstable Ghouls tend to be used to buy early time.
- Add second Whirlwind - 2x Whirlwind + Death's Bite seems like enough enablers.
- If you wanted a more combo-y deck, add second Warsong and Inner Rages - you can get the charge before using Inner Rage to deal lots of damage from the hand. Warsong is really nice since it gives charge to practically everything in your deck - the only downside is that you almost always have to hold it in hand because it's a top priority removal target, so it's not really a turn 3 play and it drives your curve up a bit. I still think it's worth it though.
Logged
I have a blog! It's called Sorta Insightful. Check it out?

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #162 on: September 02, 2014, 09:31:32 pm »
0

Weaponsmith is really a value card. It's a 3/3 drop for 4 mana that deals 4dmg over 2 turns. It's a lot in one card, but it's not fast. I think it's much better in arena.
Logged

theory

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3549
  • Respect: +5764
    • View Profile
    • Dominion Strategy
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #163 on: September 03, 2014, 09:04:09 am »
0

ADWCTA also suggested cutting Unstable Ghoul, but maybe I am just too enamored with the Unstable Ghoul -> Raging Worgen play.  It serves a double role of protector + trigger for my important minions, so I am loath to remove it.

I don't particularly like Arathi Weaponsmith because I rarely have that much trouble removing small minions.  I often just wish I had a Death's Bite / Arcanite Reaper instead.  Of course, those don't give me 3/3 bodies or aren't playable on 4 mana, but it does feel like an Arena hero instead of what this deck needs.

Inner Rage / more Warsong is a good idea.  My deck right now doesn't have a ton of "combo-from-hand" potential (it's mostly about keeping a Raging Worgen / Frothing Berserker alive for a turn) but perhaps another Warsong will open up more opportunities.

Also, guys, I'm serious about the Dread Corsair thing.  It really is the most crucial non-win condition card in my deck (maybe second after TBK) -- squeezing out a free 3/3 taunt is pretty gamechanging.
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #164 on: September 03, 2014, 09:07:42 am »
0

No 2/3 Pirates that get bigger with weapons?
Logged

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1461
  • Respect: +517
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #165 on: September 03, 2014, 01:05:29 pm »
0

I'd definitely cut the Weaponsmith in this deck. There's problems with the card in a deck that has 5 better weapons in it. I run a similar Warrior deck and cut the Weaponsmith from it because there were numerous times that I would be unable to play the Weaponsmith because I either already had a better weapon equipped or wanted to equip a better weapon that turn and didn't want to waste the 2/2.

I would also cut the Ghouls, they synergize with your minions to enrage them, but they're not aggressive enough.

Cards I would consider adding:
Kor'Kron Elite: It's just a really good card even if it doesn't synergize.
Bloodsail Raider: Weapons make this card worth playing.
Grommosh: It sucks you don't have it, but it really would work very well here as a finisher.
Mortal Strike: One of the few Warrior cards with the ability to ignore Taunts.
Another Whirlwind: A good cheap card in this style of deck.
Earthenring Farseer: Yeah, there will be situations where you don't want to turn off a creatures enrage, but considering the amounts of ways to enrage cards you should get value out of the healing whether by keeping a creature alive to do more damage (Frothing, Gurubashi), healing a creature that's about to be reenraged anyways (through Whirlwind, Frost's Bite, etc) or just healing yourself (you do tend to take damage with all the weapons smashing into creatures). Plus it synergizes with Warsong.
Slam: If you have trouble with card draw this is a good value card for cycling.
Logged

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1461
  • Respect: +517
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #166 on: September 03, 2014, 01:09:39 pm »
0

Also another Warsong would be good too.
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #167 on: September 08, 2014, 07:02:14 am »
0

I'm running a fun Secret Mage deck now -- I think Jorbles has one?  Anyway, I'm wondering on some card choices...

1 Mana:

Mirror Image x2
Mana Wyrm x2
Secretkeeper x2

2 Mana:

Frostbolt x2
Mad Scientist x2

3 Mana:

Arcane Intellect x2
Duplicate x2
Ice Barrier
Mirror Entity x2
Spellbender
Kirin Tor Mage x2

4 Mana:

Polymorph x2
Ethereal Arcanist x2

5 Mana:

Feugen
Stalagg

6+ Mana:

Blizzard
Flamestrike x2
Alexstrasza



I'm wondering if I need a second Blizzard (in place of a Flamestrike?  Instead of something else?) and if there are better options for 5 Mana instead of Feugen/Stalagg (I have a Faceless...Sea Giant?).

I'd like one Ice Block, but don't have it.  I have no Vaporize, either.  I have one Counterspell, but don't find it useful.

It's basically a control style deck, just biding my time while I whittle away at minions and keep getting free stuff from secret shenanigans.  But if I don't get a super big Ethereal Arcanist or Mana Wyrm, I'm a bit weak on the killing (no Pyro, no Fireballs, nothing).

Like, if I had a Leeroy or a Cairne or a Sylvanus, sure.  Or a Rag.  But I don't...I have 1 Sea Giant, 1 Molten Giant, all the Naxx legendaries, 2x Argent Commander, the aforementioned Faceless, 2x Abomination...

Any suggestions?  I have enough dust to craft an epic or 6 or so rares at this point.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1461
  • Respect: +517
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #168 on: September 08, 2014, 02:06:00 pm »
0

I've been waiting for someone to talk about this with! This is what I run:
1s:
2 x Arcane Missiles
2 x Mana Wyrms

2s:
2 x Frostbolt
2 x Mad Scientist
2 x Ooze (I would swap these for Amanis if the meta didn't seem to be loaded with Warriors and Hunters with Eaglesongs right now)

3s:
1 x Arcane Intellect
1 x Acolyte (I've been thinking of replacing this with a second Arcane Intellect, but I like the versatility)
2 x Kirin Tor
1 x Counterspell
1 x Vapourize (I've had good results from this as a delayed removal spell, but it relies on you playing from ahead and leaving something behind that you think they'll attack face with. A lot of mind games involved. I'll probably replace this with Counterspell when I have dust to craft a second one.)
1 x Mirror Entity (edit: I only have 1.)
2 x Duplicate

4s:
2 x Water Elemental
1 x Ethereal Arcanist
2 x Fireball
2 x Polymorph

5+s:
2 x Azure Drakes
1 x Loatheb (edit: forgot I'd traded Loatheb in.)
1 x Flamestrike

It's fun I don't know how legit it will be at higher ranks, but it's climbing steadily since the last ladder reset.

I used to run Spellbender in this deck, but it really just seems like a terrible secret since it only activates when someone casts a spell targeting a creature. You'd be better off with a Counterspell. Counterspell can counter any spell, not just ones that target individual minions. Spellbender actually plays terribly if you have a Duplicate out (you don't want two Spellbenders you want two Kirin Tors or two Water Elementals or two Azure Drakes).

I used to run Cairne in this deck, but found he was usually too slow. This deck builds all it's momentum in the midgame with 3 and 4 drops. I was usually wanting to play multiple midrange threats instead of a big Cairne who is really just a midrange threat and another delayed midrange threat. I also tried running Veonidas as a finisher, but found he was too slow as well.

I don't own any Secret Keepers, but I don't think I'd run them if I did. If you play a Secretkeeper turn 1 you're not going to see a secret to buff it until turn 3 unless you coin or mad scientist one out. It doesn't seem strong enough to me, but let me know how they go.

I used to run two Arcanists, but found if I drew both of them one of them would have trouble matching up with secrets at some point.

I try to play the deck by never casting a secret for full price. Always try to bring them out with Mad Scientists or KT Mages. I use momentum gained from free secrets to take control of the mid game, gain a card advantage and try to win around the time I've drawn about 20 cards from the deck. Duplicate is a really key card for building hand advantage. I want to duplicate cards that I can cast both of immediately after the thing is killed. Any of the 3, 4 or 5 drops are good for this, Mad Scientist is okay if it's still early in the game. Ooze is okay to Duplicate if it's against a Warrior. Otherwise I try to trade off weak minions on my turn to force the Duplicate of a 3+ drop on theirs. This deck can win in the late game, but legendary heavy decks often outlast it if the game goes that long.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2014, 08:26:05 pm by Jorbles »
Logged

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3260
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +1868
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #169 on: September 08, 2014, 02:53:31 pm »
0

Yeah I agree that Counterspell is just better than Spellbender. There are a bunch of cards that are draw+other effect, like Slam, Hammer of Wrath, and Wrath. Spellbender still lets them draw.
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #170 on: September 08, 2014, 09:48:58 pm »
0

I've been waiting for someone to talk about this with!

I used to run Spellbender in this deck, but it really just seems like a terrible secret since it only activates when someone casts a spell targeting a creature. You'd be better off with a Counterspell. Counterspell can counter any spell, not just ones that target individual minions. Spellbender actually plays terribly if you have a Duplicate out (you don't want two Spellbenders you want two Kirin Tors or two Water Elementals or two Azure Drakes).

I used to run Cairne in this deck, but found he was usually too slow. This deck builds all it's momentum in the midgame with 3 and 4 drops. I was usually wanting to play multiple midrange threats instead of a big Cairne who is really just a midrange threat and another delayed midrange threat. I also tried running Veonidas as a finisher, but found he was too slow as well.

I don't own any Secret Keepers, but I don't think I'd run them if I did. If you play a Secretkeeper turn 1 you're not going to see a secret to buff it until turn 3 unless you coin or mad scientist one out. It doesn't seem strong enough to me, but let me know how they go.

I used to run two Arcanists, but found if I drew both of them one of them would have trouble matching up with secrets at some point.

I try to play the deck by never casting a secret for full price. Always try to bring them out with Mad Scientists or KT Mages. I use momentum gained from free secrets to take control of the mid game, gain a card advantage and try to win around the time I've drawn about 20 cards from the deck. Duplicate is a really key card for building hand advantage. I want to duplicate cards that I can cast both of immediately after the thing is killed. Any of the 3, 4 or 5 drops are good for this, Mad Scientist is okay if it's still early in the game. Ooze is okay to Duplicate if it's against a Warrior. Otherwise I try to trade off weak minions on my turn to force the Duplicate of a 3+ drop on theirs. This deck can win in the late game, but legendary heavy decks often outlast it if the game goes that long.

I've found that the Secret Keepers have been a net positive since I've started playing this deck -- I usually don't drop them T1 (that's the normal Mirror Image/Mana Wrym/Coin combos), but will if I need to have presence on T1/T2.  Generally they're a 2/3, which trades well enough, and often they'll draw the Wrath/Frostbolt/etc. out early, which I think is a good use of a 1 Drop.

I'm 50/50 on Spellbender, but when it works, it is spectacular.  I mean, it's nice when it steals a buff like MotW or something, but it seems like eating the assassinate is it's main role.  I get that Counterspell does the same thing, but I don't think you're meant to think of them as the same.  Spellbender is a minion protector, like a spell taunt.  It's the spell version of the Paladin one, but better.

I love Arcanists, and I think I'd give 2 another shot.  If I had Ice Block, it'd be even better, since that secret sticks until the very end.  They are often my big mid-range threats even though they aren't that big.

I play the deck basically with the intent of irritating the opponent into submission (not really).  Unlike common sense would dictate, I actually like Duplicating my Mirror Images -- general, barring Consecrate/Holy Nova/etc., dropping free taunts all day really slows down the opponent.  I haven't thought about using a Knife Juggler in this, but maybe with all the extra small minions from Duplicate, it's worth it?  I'm generally trying to keep board control until I can get the big guns out, and Alex is always a useful game changer late.

My big issue is I don't really have big guns that are great -- I rarely get Thaddius to work out, and I just don't have much else.  I could sub in a Faceless and an Azure Drake, maybe.

Jorbles -- how are you killing folks?  Elementals?  Spells?  Drakes are 4/4 and Loatheb is one 5/5.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

ycz6

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 673
  • Respect: +386
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #171 on: September 09, 2014, 12:14:21 am »
0

The win condition in my Secret Mage deck is mainly getting huge Arcanists, with Duplicate giving me a few extra chances. I also have a Pyroblast in there. The only problem is that I don't own any Ice Blocks, though, which makes the deck much worse.
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #172 on: September 09, 2014, 12:36:15 am »
0

The win condition in my Secret Mage deck is mainly getting huge Arcanists, with Duplicate giving me a few extra chances. I also have a Pyroblast in there. The only problem is that I don't own any Ice Blocks, though, which makes the deck much worse.

I'm really tempted to spend the 400 dust to craft an Ice Block for that reason.  I'd only want the one anyway.

Would giants make any sense?  I often get up to 5 minions on the board just from the multiple Mirror Images, Secret Keepers, etc.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1461
  • Respect: +517
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #173 on: September 09, 2014, 12:58:44 am »
0

Jorbles -- how are you killing folks?  Elementals?  Spells?  Drakes are 4/4 and Loatheb is one 5/5.

I would say that occasionally I'll kill them in a lucky initial rush (25% of the time) by bursting them down at the end with a big arcanist and a spell, but most often I win by getting 3-4 mid size minions out and hammering them down once they're top decking. This usually involves some combo of Water Elementals, KT Mages and Drakes.
Logged

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1461
  • Respect: +517
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #174 on: September 09, 2014, 01:00:43 am »
0

Would giants make any sense?  I often get up to 5 minions on the board just from the multiple Mirror Images, Secret Keepers, etc.

I briefly ran a Mountain Giant in the deck because I often had a card advantage in my deck (I bumped it out because it was usually not great to duplicate, the first was often cheap, but the second and third were often not). A Sea Giant might work in yours, or Frostwolf Warlords if you've got lots of little critters?
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #175 on: September 09, 2014, 01:22:57 am »
0

Would giants make any sense?  I often get up to 5 minions on the board just from the multiple Mirror Images, Secret Keepers, etc.

I briefly ran a Mountain Giant in the deck because I often had a card advantage in my deck (I bumped it out because it was usually not great to duplicate, the first was often cheap, but the second and third were often not). A Sea Giant might work in yours, or Frostwolf Warlords if you've got lots of little critters?

Generally, a great board for me has 3-4 Mirror Images, a Mana Wyrm, 1/2 Secret Keepers, and a growing Arcanist.  I could try the giant and azure drake instead of feugen/stalagg.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1461
  • Respect: +517
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #176 on: September 09, 2014, 01:38:30 am »
0

If I had an Ice Block (I don't) I might consider a second Arcanist, but right now I just can't see what it's good enough to replace. Drakes are too important for card draw and spell power, Water Elementals are too good against Warriors and Hunters, which is like 25-35% of what I'm facing right now, Loatheb's too good against everyone, and everything else that costs 4+ is minion removal which the deck needs. If Warriors and Hunters became less dominant I might put a second one back in instead of a Water Elemental, but right now I'd rather have the ability to freeze my opponent than a big threat. (3+ medium sized threats is harder for people to deal with I find, especially when they're out before flamestrike is castable.)

If you are finding that Feugen and Stalagg aren't doing it for you Azure might be good. It's a really good card in mage, but then I say that as someone who runs Arcane Missiles and Fireballs. Loatheb is an amazing 5 drop, and opponents really hate it when you duplicate him (3 turns of no spells). Loatheb would probably be my top recommendation for a 5 drop in a secret deck. If you end up with 3-4 cheap minions on your board often, a Sea Giant or a Frostwolf Warlord would both be great. (Frostwolf's are maybe not as big as Giants, but they are more reliable to get out earlier so it's a trade off.)
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #177 on: September 09, 2014, 01:42:31 am »
0

If I had an Ice Block (I don't) I might consider a second Arcanist, but right now I just can't see what it's good enough to replace. Drakes are too important for card draw and spell power, Water Elementals are too good against Warriors and Hunters, which is like 25-35% of what I'm facing right now, Loatheb's too good against everyone, and everything else that costs 4+ is minion removal which the deck needs. If Warriors and Hunters became less dominant I might put a second one back in instead of a Water Elemental, but right now I'd rather have the ability to freeze my opponent than a big threat. (3+ medium sized threats is harder for people to deal with I find, especially when they're out before flamestrike is castable.)

If you are finding that Feugen and Stalagg aren't doing it for you Azure might be good. It's a really good card in mage, but then I say that as someone who runs Arcane Missiles and Fireballs. Loatheb is an amazing 5 drop, and opponents really hate it when you duplicate him (3 turns of no spells). Loatheb would probably be my top recommendation for a 5 drop in a secret deck. If you end up with 3-4 cheap minions on your board often, a Sea Giant or a Frostwolf Warlord would both be great. (Frostwolf's are maybe not as big as Giants, but they are more reliable to get out earlier so it's a trade off.)

Yeah, no Fireballs in my deck really changes the playstyle.  I have little use for spell power, really.

I can easily swap in an Azure Drake and Loatheb for the twins.

Any thoughts on Blizzard vs. Flamestrike?  I have three slots for them, and right now I have 1 Blizzard and 2 FS.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1461
  • Respect: +517
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #178 on: September 09, 2014, 10:44:12 am »
0

Any thoughts on Blizzard vs. Flamestrike?  I have three slots for them, and right now I have 1 Blizzard and 2 FS.

Sorry I don't have much experience with Blizzard, I've never owned it. It seems generally useful for clearing Zoo/Paladin boards and against aggro decks. It's more versatile than flamestrike as it is also capable of allowing you to ignore minions for a turn while you hit the face. I'd probably have to see how it plays honestly. It seems to lack oomph for it's cost, but it might not matter if you can burst someone down while the blizzard freezes everything. I like that it costs 6 so you can play it earlier against aggro decks. Flamestrike is too slow against them.
Logged

theory

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3549
  • Respect: +5764
    • View Profile
    • Dominion Strategy
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #179 on: September 09, 2014, 10:51:36 am »
0

One Blizzard + two Flamestrike seems overkill...I don't know how your deck plays but I can't imagine that any Mage deck wouldn't want to run Fireball.  It's just such a powerful spell.
Logged

blueblimp

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2717
  • Respect: +1457
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #180 on: September 09, 2014, 02:50:58 pm »
+1

WRT secrets Mages, I quite like Ostkaka's mage list presented by Xixo in his Liquidhearth Open victory article. It did pretty well for me in the dying days of last season, going 25-11 at ranks 5-2, and certainly would have put me in legend with a few more hours of play. It doesn't commit overly much to secrets, just putting in enough to reliably get value from Mad Scientist's deathrattle (5), then throwing in Kirin Tor Mages so that you can play them from your hand for cheap, which makes sense to me since IMO the biggest weakness of Mad Scientist is that it forces you to put secrets in your deck that you're pretty unhappy to draw into your hand.
Logged

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1461
  • Respect: +517
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #181 on: September 09, 2014, 04:18:04 pm »
0

WRT secrets Mages, I quite like Ostkaka's mage list presented by Xixo in his Liquidhearth Open victory article. It did pretty well for me in the dying days of last season, going 25-11 at ranks 5-2, and certainly would have put me in legend with a few more hours of play. It doesn't commit overly much to secrets, just putting in enough to reliably get value from Mad Scientist's deathrattle (5), then throwing in Kirin Tor Mages so that you can play them from your hand for cheap, which makes sense to me since IMO the biggest weakness of Mad Scientist is that it forces you to put secrets in your deck that you're pretty unhappy to draw into your hand.

Thanks for this!

The comments are worth reading, where they discuss secrets mage. I think what Ostkaka says regarding how many secrets should be in the deck is worth reading. 5 is a nice sweet spot for getting value out of them. I think you could maybe make 6 work, but any more than that would be overkill and less than 4 would make it difficult to get value out of KT Mage.

He also talks about Arcanist. He used to run 1 in it, but cut it to add a Gnomish Inventor because it didn't fit the curve of the deck with the amount of card draw he needed. I don't love Arcane Intellect, but it fits the curve of how I like to play the deck. (I always always mulligan it and only plan on playing it around turn 7+.) Plus I run Azures and an Acolyte for extra draw, which he doesn't have space for because he wants to have additional death rattles.

(Disclaimer: His deck is probably better than mine, and he's definitely a better player than me, but Secrets Mage is one of the few styles of deck I play a lot so I have opinions on it.)
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #182 on: September 09, 2014, 04:28:01 pm »
0

One Blizzard + two Flamestrike seems overkill...I don't know how your deck plays but I can't imagine that any Mage deck wouldn't want to run Fireball.  It's just such a powerful spell.

I'm definitely not using the three for full board clears, but since more than three quarters of my games last well past ten turns, they become versatile removal spells.

You are right that I miss the Fireballs, though.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #183 on: September 10, 2014, 07:06:14 pm »
0

One Blizzard + two Flamestrike seems overkill...I don't know how your deck plays but I can't imagine that any Mage deck wouldn't want to run Fireball.  It's just such a powerful spell.

I'm definitely not using the three for full board clears, but since more than three quarters of my games last well past ten turns, they become versatile removal spells.

You are right that I miss the Fireballs, though.

Okay, I crafted the epic Ice Block.  We'll see how that goes.  I traded it out for the single Ice Barrier I was running.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1461
  • Respect: +517
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #184 on: September 10, 2014, 07:45:51 pm »
0

That will probably improve things. Ice Barrier is a pretty meh spell. It's biggest effect on the game is that people have to play like it might be a better secret, only to be relieved to trigger Ice Barrier after possibly (but not necessarily) some sub-optimal play. It has no effect on the board and is basically just a delayed heal. Useful in Freeze mage where your win condition is just to outlast someone until you have the cards and mana to burst them down, but I don't think it's very useful in more typical mage decks.
Logged

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6937
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9006
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #185 on: September 14, 2014, 01:54:07 am »
0

So I've decided to try more constructed.  I'm running with the following:  http://www.hearthhead.com/deck=71620/ramp-watcher

2x Innervate

2x Wrath
1x Mark of the Wild
1x Wild Growth
2x Ancient Watcher
2x Sunfury Protector

1x Harvest Golem
2x Savage Roar

2x Keeper of the Grove
2x Defender of Argus
1x Spellbreaker
1x Chillwind Yeti

2x Druid of the Claw
1x Stampeding Kodo
1x Harrison Jones
1x Loatheb

1x Force of Nature
1x Sunwalker

2x Ancient of Lore

Any thoughts/suggestions for substitutions?  My collection includes a second Sunwalker, an Ancient of War, a pair of Faceless Manipulators, and a pair of BGHs.  Sludge Belcher instead of Yeti or maybe one Defender?  An extra silence?

Obviously the deck is short on 2-drops.  Put in a couple good 3/2s instead of Wild Growth and perhaps Kodo?
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #186 on: September 14, 2014, 02:05:39 am »
0

I would definitely drop the Wild Growth -- it never seems to be worth it.

You could go Faerie Dragon or Ooze.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

Titandrake

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1976
  • Respect: +2132
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #187 on: September 14, 2014, 02:41:47 am »
0

It's okay to have a deck with a weak turn 2, but you need the late game to back it up. Not sure if you want the 2nd Savage Roar, seems like you only use it for the FoN + Savage Roar combo most of the time.

If you're seeing lots of Hunters, Harrison is okay, but otherwise I'd replace it for something else.

Definitely try to fit in a 1x BGH somewhere, your deck feels more controllish/late game and you don't have good answers for big threats. Drop Harvest/Kodo for it? Leaning more towards Kodo, your 3 mana spot is already a little lacking and BGH is not a card you play turn 3.
Logged
I have a blog! It's called Sorta Insightful. Check it out?

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1461
  • Respect: +517
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #188 on: September 14, 2014, 01:44:45 pm »
0

Definitely try to fit in a 1x BGH somewhere, your deck feels more controllish/late game and you don't have good answers for big threats. Drop Harvest/Kodo for it? Leaning more towards Kodo, your 3 mana spot is already a little lacking and BGH is not a card you play turn 3.

I was actually thinking the same thing. Druid suffers from a lack of creature removal and BGH helps out a lot in that area. (Plus it can combo with Mark of Nature if you need to remove something with 5/6 health.)
Logged

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2083
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #189 on: September 14, 2014, 06:11:21 pm »
0

You're not actually short on 2-drops. You have Innervate to play bigger stuff on turn 2, Wrath to remove their stuff, and Watchers and Sunfuries. And with all the taunt in the deck, you can give up a bit of tempo on turn 2 and still come out fine.
I'm not sold on Wild Growth in this deck since you don't really have anything to ramp into. The high end seems kind of lacking.
Harrison Jones is a meta card. If you're not seeing so many weapons, you can probably put something better here.
I also don't think Watcher decks need Kodo, since you deal with the aggro by taunting.
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #190 on: September 16, 2014, 01:45:01 am »
0

Kelthuzad is just so much fun. It seems people still haven't figured out how to play against him, and sometimes it's just game over if your opponent has minions he can kill. Plus double Kethuzad is just so awesome, I can't begin to express how enjoyable it is to see minions smash yours, and then yours rise back form the dead in doubles.
Logged

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6937
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9006
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #191 on: September 16, 2014, 01:54:03 am »
0

You're not actually short on 2-drops. You have Innervate to play bigger stuff on turn 2, Wrath to remove their stuff, and Watchers and Sunfuries. And with all the taunt in the deck, you can give up a bit of tempo on turn 2 and still come out fine.
I'm not sold on Wild Growth in this deck since you don't really have anything to ramp into. The high end seems kind of lacking.
Harrison Jones is a meta card. If you're not seeing so many weapons, you can probably put something better here.
I also don't think Watcher decks need Kodo, since you deal with the aggro by taunting.

So I switched out Kodo for Faceless and Wild Growth for a BGH.  So far I'm... 4-8 with this deck, down near Rank 18.  Which doesn't bode too well.  Harrison right now is a liability though, I'm only rarely facing weapon classes.  A second Faceless, Azure Drake, maybe something else at 3?  Even a Loot Hoarder for the extra card...

I find my early game truly lacking; if I don't draw Watcher + something to activate it, or I draw Sunfury/Defender without any minions to turn... I end up dying to early aggro.

I wonder if it would be better to try to rank up with an aggro deck (or Zoolock because hey, it works and the game's over in 5-8 minutes) and then try this deck out at higher ranks against the meta, as opposed to spending 15 minutes per fight (where I am with this deck) and losing to crazy weird basic cards because I'm relying too much on good draws.

Or maybe I should just go back to Arena and working on getting better than 5 average over there.
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

Titandrake

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1976
  • Respect: +2132
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #192 on: September 16, 2014, 02:07:18 am »
0

If you're feeling like the early game is bad, and Harrison isn't great, then drop Harrison for a 3 drop. Second Harvest or Earthen Ring Farseer, maybe? Healing Touch isn't bad either, but I think I prefer Earthen Ring Farseer to Healing Touch.

Sen'jin is good if you want more early taunt. Wild Pyromancer is more potential board clear, Pyro + Wrath = Swipe and Pyro + Swipe will kill most boards.

Just noticed you don't list Swipe in the list, I'm assuming that's a typo because it's in the linked deck and it adds up to 28 cards. - Sunwalker, + Starfall? Sunwalker comes out a bit too late to save you against aggro IMO, it feels better against midrange decks. Whereas Starfall can wreck aggro and is just another board clear to have.
Logged
I have a blog! It's called Sorta Insightful. Check it out?

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #193 on: September 16, 2014, 02:25:36 am »
0

You could run Power of the Wild x2.  A 3/2 or minion buff for a 2 drop that is almost always good.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1461
  • Respect: +517
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #194 on: September 16, 2014, 12:48:24 pm »
0

I wonder if it would be better to try to rank up with an aggro deck (or Zoolock because hey, it works and the game's over in 5-8 minutes) and then try this deck out at higher ranks against the meta, as opposed to spending 15 minutes per fight (where I am with this deck) and losing to crazy weird basic cards because I'm relying too much on good draws.

If you're having trouble with relying on good draws at rank 18 it probably won't do any better at higher ranks. Many of the decks you play there are decks that have churned their way through the lower ranks already with only minor tweaks. I'd suggest keep tweaking the deck you want until you find the right makeup to win consistently. Maybe try Senjins? Or Sludge Belchers? They're really good at slowing aggro decks down. Eggs are a possibility too as they combo nicely with most of the cards that you use to activate Ancient Watchers giving you more combo possibilities.
Logged

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1461
  • Respect: +517
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #195 on: September 17, 2014, 12:15:21 pm »
+1

Just had some great value Counterspells against a Freeze mage deck. Counterspell #1 eats a Pyroblast, Counterspell #2 eats a Blizzard.
Logged

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2083
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #196 on: September 18, 2014, 01:49:29 am »
0

You're not actually short on 2-drops. You have Innervate to play bigger stuff on turn 2, Wrath to remove their stuff, and Watchers and Sunfuries. And with all the taunt in the deck, you can give up a bit of tempo on turn 2 and still come out fine.
I'm not sold on Wild Growth in this deck since you don't really have anything to ramp into. The high end seems kind of lacking.
Harrison Jones is a meta card. If you're not seeing so many weapons, you can probably put something better here.
I also don't think Watcher decks need Kodo, since you deal with the aggro by taunting.

So I switched out Kodo for Faceless and Wild Growth for a BGH.  So far I'm... 4-8 with this deck, down near Rank 18.  Which doesn't bode too well.  Harrison right now is a liability though, I'm only rarely facing weapon classes.  A second Faceless, Azure Drake, maybe something else at 3?  Even a Loot Hoarder for the extra card...

I find my early game truly lacking; if I don't draw Watcher + something to activate it, or I draw Sunfury/Defender without any minions to turn... I end up dying to early aggro.

I wonder if it would be better to try to rank up with an aggro deck (or Zoolock because hey, it works and the game's over in 5-8 minutes) and then try this deck out at higher ranks against the meta, as opposed to spending 15 minutes per fight (where I am with this deck) and losing to crazy weird basic cards because I'm relying too much on good draws.

Or maybe I should just go back to Arena and working on getting better than 5 average over there.

If you want more targets for the taunt-givers, Eggs could be nice. But yeah, your early game is lacking mostly in the turn 3-4 department. Defender and Spellbreaker need a Watcher to be useful, so you really only have 1 3-drop and 3 4-drops that you can play consistently. I would strive to add in another Yeti/Sen'jin and another 3-drop (Harvest/Farseer) somehow.
Logged

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1461
  • Respect: +517
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #197 on: September 18, 2014, 11:12:50 am »
+1

I have lived the dream Warlock opening and that opening is this:
1: Coin-> Egg
2: Egg
3: Void Terror->"Your Soul Shall Suffer"

(It's worth the 8-10 damage you take setting it up, I did this against an aggro deck and was a little nervous, but it's big enough that it turns everything around.)
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #198 on: September 20, 2014, 08:40:25 am »
0

Can someone tell me how to beat Ysera?

Seems like without a 12 damage Snipe, it's autowin, since they get the dream card the turn they summon.

I survived awhile, but man, not much I can do.  I got mirror entity emerald drake, then he killed it so it duplicated.  Then I play them and he just does the kill everything but Ysera spell.  Then I cast a strong minion and he saps.  Ysera counters everything.  And with 4 attack, he's immune to shadow words.  Hex and Poly are the only two single card removals, I think.  Or silence, I guess.

But what's the secret?  Is there a card you need to run solely for Ysera possibilities?
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

Drab Emordnilap

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1804
  • Shuffle iT Username: Drab Emordnilap
  • Luther Bell Hendricks V
  • Respect: +1815
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #199 on: September 20, 2014, 09:16:24 am »
+2

Generally you beat Ysera by not giving them a turn they can afford to spend 9 mana to play her. She affects the board not at all the turn you play her, so they basically skip a turn. If your board is threatening enough, then she never gets played because then you'll just win. It's not like they can play Flamestrike and Ysera in the same turn.
Logged

Titandrake

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1976
  • Respect: +2132
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #200 on: September 20, 2014, 03:30:17 pm »
0

Generally you beat Ysera by not giving them a turn they can afford to spend 9 mana to play her. She affects the board not at all the turn you play her, so they basically skip a turn. If your board is threatening enough, then she never gets played because then you'll just win. It's not like they can play Flamestrike and Ysera in the same turn.

Put another way, if your opponent is in a position where they can play Ysera without losing in the next 1 or 2 turns, the game was over anyways. Ysera's a card you only put in control decks, if they managed to not die until then you're either running a control deck yourself or you failed to get through their defense.
Logged
I have a blog! It's called Sorta Insightful. Check it out?

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6937
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9006
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #201 on: September 20, 2014, 06:33:09 pm »
+1

So I just went 5-0 in unrated using the following plain ridiculous Shaman deck:  http://www.hearthhead.com/deck=72631/ridiculous-deathrattles

Is unrated easier than ladder in general?  Did I get a lucky streak?  Did I find some untapped gem of potential?  Thoughts?
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #202 on: September 20, 2014, 06:39:40 pm »
0

So I just went 5-0 in unrated using the following plain ridiculous Shaman deck:  http://www.hearthhead.com/deck=72631/ridiculous-deathrattles

Is unrated easier than ladder in general?  Did I get a lucky streak?  Did I find some untapped gem of potential?  Thoughts?

Unrated is quite easier in my experience.
Logged

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1461
  • Respect: +517
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #203 on: September 20, 2014, 09:46:01 pm »
0

So I just went 5-0 in unrated using the following plain ridiculous Shaman deck:  http://www.hearthhead.com/deck=72631/ridiculous-deathrattles

Is unrated easier than ladder in general?  Did I get a lucky streak?  Did I find some untapped gem of potential?  Thoughts?

Unrated is quite easier in my experience.

Yeah, a lot of people try out weird/new deck ideas in unrated, and people who are nervous about losing rank play weak decks there to grind quests. So the quality of the decks are not as solid, but there are good decks there, just not as regularly as in ranked.
Logged

blueblimp

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2717
  • Respect: +1457
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #204 on: September 20, 2014, 10:35:13 pm »
0

I don't know if there's actual official info confirming it, but: I believe that unranked uses its own MMR, so the quality of opponents you get matched against depends on how well you've performed in unranked in the past.

The best way to judge the quality of a deck (short of something elaborate like, say, having dedicated practice partners), IMO, is to play it in ranked play until you stabilize at roughly 50% winrate. If all you want to know is whether it's better than the previous deck you were playing in ranked, and you had stabilized with that deck, then you can just play a few games and see whether your winrate is well over 50% (good sign), well under 50% (bad sign), or somewhere near 50% (inconclusive). Of course this doesn't account for strength in different matchups, but you need literally hundreds of games to get statistically useful results in even the common matchups.
Logged

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6937
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9006
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #205 on: September 21, 2014, 12:42:43 am »
0

Of course this doesn't account for strength in different matchups, but you need literally hundreds of games to get statistically useful results in even the common matchups.

I think this is really the main trouble with testing a deck by playing it on the ladder--you do need literally hundreds of games to say "yeah, this is better than 50/50."
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

Titandrake

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1976
  • Respect: +2132
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #206 on: September 21, 2014, 02:02:37 am »
0

Deathrattle Shaman is actually not that crazy of a deck. It does get so much better if you have Cairne + Sylvanas though.
Logged
I have a blog! It's called Sorta Insightful. Check it out?

blueblimp

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2717
  • Respect: +1457
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #207 on: September 21, 2014, 02:41:12 am »
+1

Of course this doesn't account for strength in different matchups, but you need literally hundreds of games to get statistically useful results in even the common matchups.

I think this is really the main trouble with testing a deck by playing it on the ladder--you do need literally hundreds of games to say "yeah, this is better than 50/50."
Decks that are both fundamentally good and well positioned in the ladder meta can get 70%+ winrates, so it doesn't take all that many games to observe that. It's just when you want to know specific matchup strengths and weaknesses that it becomes hard to judge, especially for archetypes that you don't face very often on ladder.
Logged

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6937
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9006
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #208 on: September 21, 2014, 09:57:32 am »
0

Deathrattle Shaman is actually not that crazy of a deck. It does get so much better if you have Cairne + Sylvanas though.

That would certainly make things more ridiculous.  Oh, you let Cairne stay on the board?  Ancestral Spirit, Reincarnation... yeah.
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #209 on: September 21, 2014, 12:19:51 pm »
0

Deathrattle Shaman is actually not that crazy of a deck. It does get so much better if you have Cairne + Sylvanas though.

That would certainly make things more ridiculous.  Oh, you let Cairne stay on the board?  Ancestral Spirit, Reincarnation... yeah.

I'm using a shaman death deck, but I don t run ancestral spirit. It's too slow. Reincarnate is just a tool to activate egg, sylvannas and kelthuzad.
Logged

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6937
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9006
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #210 on: September 24, 2014, 12:54:00 am »
+2

Meanwhile, in Constructed, I just got to pull off the Auchenai Soulpriest/Baron Rivendare/2xZombie Chow/CoH combo...
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #211 on: September 24, 2014, 12:55:34 am »
+1

Meanwhile, in Constructed, I just got to pull off the Auchenai Soulpriest/Baron Rivendare/2xZombie Chow/CoH combo...

Your life is complete. You can stop playing hearthstone now.
Logged

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1461
  • Respect: +517
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #212 on: September 24, 2014, 06:31:46 pm »
0

Deathrattle Shaman is actually not that crazy of a deck. It does get so much better if you have Cairne + Sylvanas though.

That would certainly make things more ridiculous.  Oh, you let Cairne stay on the board?  Ancestral Spirit, Reincarnation... yeah.

I'm using a shaman death deck, but I don t run ancestral spirit. It's too slow. Reincarnate is just a tool to activate egg, sylvannas and kelthuzad.

I just finished Naxx so I could attempt something similar. I wanted Kel before I built it. I don't have Sylvanas, but I do have Cairne. Do you mind if I ask what you run? I can't decide whether Chargers and Shielders are good enough to replace some Deathrattlers in this type of deck.
Logged

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1461
  • Respect: +517
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #213 on: September 25, 2014, 11:33:19 am »
0

Okay here's my shot at a Shaman Deathrattler deck:

2 x Earthshock
1 x Lightning Bolt
2 x Rockbiter
2 x Undertaker
1 x Ancestral Spirit
2 x Reincarnate
2 x Flametongue Totem
2 x Haunted Creeper
2 x Nerubian Egg
2 x Lightning Storm
2 x Harvest Golem
1 x Mana Tide Totem
1 x Baron Rivendare
1 x Bloodlust
2 x Sludge Belcher
1 x Argent Commander
1 x Cairne Bloodhoof
2 x Fire Elemental
1 x Kel'Thuzad

So far it's having good results, better than my Secrets deck anyways (for whatever that's worth). It's got a couple different viable win conditions.
1) Using deathrattlers, eggs and totems establish early board control. Get 4-6 small minions out before opponents have had a chance to draw into AoE and wipe them out with a well timed BLARGLEGARGLE (Bloodlust). (I wasn't sure this was viable when I started the deck, but I've pulled it off 3 times now and almost had lethal in a couple other games unbeknownst to my opponents.)
2) Have Mid-range threats (Rivendare/Sludge Belchers/Cairne/Fire Elementals) eat minion removal spells and then drop Kel'Thuzad to have a turn of trading while I've got a death rattler or two out building on that momentum to a win (this has been less relevant, but has been effective once or twice.)

This deck has lost when opponents have had heavy amounts of Silence in their deck or drawn board clear when I'm out of 1-3 drop minions in hand. For instance, once I got out late-gamed by a Priest who got both his Auchenai, CoH combos off, had a Rag I had to throw my Bloodlust at to remove, and had a Mass Dispel and a Silence to play. He also stole a copy of my K'T :( which I killed with the Argent+something. I got him to start fatiguing, but couldn't draw enough to clear his board.

Anyhow thoughts? I'm not sure exactly what to do with Rivendare when I have him in hand, but he just seems like a good idea in this deck.
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #214 on: September 25, 2014, 02:10:57 pm »
0

Deathrattle Shaman is actually not that crazy of a deck. It does get so much better if you have Cairne + Sylvanas though.

That would certainly make things more ridiculous.  Oh, you let Cairne stay on the board?  Ancestral Spirit, Reincarnation... yeah.

I'm using a shaman death deck, but I don t run ancestral spirit. It's too slow. Reincarnate is just a tool to activate egg, sylvannas and kelthuzad.

I just finished Naxx so I could attempt something similar. I wanted Kel before I built it. I don't have Sylvanas, but I do have Cairne. Do you mind if I ask what you run? I can't decide whether Chargers and Shielders are good enough to replace some Deathrattlers in this type of deck.

I'm not on my laptop which has Hearthstone installed, but off the top of my head:

1mana:
Earthshockx2
Rockbiter Weaponx2
Lightning Boltx2

2mana:
Nerubian Eggx2
Haunted Creeperx2 (This is questionable but hey, I don't know what is better)
Reincarnatex2
Flametonguex2

3mana:
Lightning Storm x2
Harvest Golemx2
Hex2

4mana:
Gnomish Inventor x2

5mana:
Azure Drakex2
Sludge Belcherx2

6mana:
Fire elementalx2
Sylvannas Windrunner (you can use Cairne. I don't have him)

8mana:
Kel Thuzad

Actually that's it, all 30 cards. Changes can be made if this doesnt work for you. Maybe you think haunted Creeper would be better as Undertakers, or ancestral spirit is good. They never came in handy for me, and Creeper works really well with Flametongue. Gnomish Inventor is for card draw. It's decent at 4, but this deck needs to draw to not go into top decking too fast.
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #215 on: September 25, 2014, 02:14:34 pm »
0

Okay here's my shot at a Shaman Deathrattler deck:
...
Anyhow thoughts? I'm not sure exactly what to do with Rivendare when I have him in hand, but he just seems like a good idea in this deck.

I didn't put Rivandare in my deck simply because I don't like his stats, and he's yet another card that is dependent on other minions being out. I also don't run Bloodlust for this reason, as very often it can end up not being very helpful. I also don't run mana tide though, but I feel that your deck may run into top decking issues. Perhaps not, but I've found Shaman to need Drakes or something giving +card to keep up hand size for most of the game.
Logged

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1461
  • Respect: +517
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #216 on: September 25, 2014, 07:39:07 pm »
0

Okay here's my shot at a Shaman Deathrattler deck:
...
Anyhow thoughts? I'm not sure exactly what to do with Rivendare when I have him in hand, but he just seems like a good idea in this deck.

I didn't put Rivandare in my deck simply because I don't like his stats, and he's yet another card that is dependent on other minions being out. I also don't run Bloodlust for this reason, as very often it can end up not being very helpful. I also don't run mana tide though, but I feel that your deck may run into top decking issues. Perhaps not, but I've found Shaman to need Drakes or something giving +card to keep up hand size for most of the game.

I'm still not sure about him, as you say his stats are terrible. I always hold onto him in hopes of comboing him with something, which has mixed results. Some games I've had to toss him out for no purpose other than to draw out a spell or used him for a play involving 4 Spectral Spiders that immediately get destroyed with a single card and I've wondered what use he is.

But when he's good man is he good. He can make up for his lacklustre stats in weird combos involving Eggs or Ancestral Spirit or both! One game Rivendare got me a board that was Egg, Egg, Nerubian, Nerubian, Rivendare, which was so satisfying that I immediately forgave him previous games that he was not particularly useful in.
Logged

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1461
  • Respect: +517
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #217 on: September 25, 2014, 07:51:11 pm »
0

Mana Tide Totem is one of my favourite card drawers. I like drakes, but I wanted something that could be played at the same time as something else so opponents have to pick between removing the card drawer or something else. They're both good though. Reincarnate and Ancestral Spirit are actually filling the role of pseudo card draw in this deck. Reincarnate can generate a copy of a death rattlers token which on the strong ones is like getting a great deal on a card (2 mana for a 4/4 is pretty common).

Ancestral Spirit is pretty strong to play on key cards. If you can get it on any of the 5+ drops (not always possible) it's a huge advantage. If you can't you can still probably get it on a strong card that usually attracts removal like Mana Tide or Flame Tongue this often forces people to try and get rid of smaller threats they can actually deal with entirely first ignoring the big totems entirely letting you get a lot more value out of them. This is probably because they're misplaying, but it's such an unfamiliar situation that people don't always know how to handle it.

I have no regrets running a single Bloodlust in this deck. I'd actually recommend you try it. Deathrattlers + Totems can be really annoying to remove. Giving you more opportunities to burst someone down with Bloodlust than is common in more traditional shaman decks run. People aren't running Hunter much anymore so the biggest counter to having a big board of weak minions is less common.
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #218 on: September 25, 2014, 07:54:04 pm »
0

Okay here's my shot at a Shaman Deathrattler deck:
...
Anyhow thoughts? I'm not sure exactly what to do with Rivendare when I have him in hand, but he just seems like a good idea in this deck.

I didn't put Rivandare in my deck simply because I don't like his stats, and he's yet another card that is dependent on other minions being out. I also don't run Bloodlust for this reason, as very often it can end up not being very helpful. I also don't run mana tide though, but I feel that your deck may run into top decking issues. Perhaps not, but I've found Shaman to need Drakes or something giving +card to keep up hand size for most of the game.

I'm still not sure about him, as you say his stats are terrible. I always hold onto him in hopes of comboing him with something, which has mixed results. Some games I've had to toss him out for no purpose other than to draw out a spell or used him for a play involving 4 Spectral Spiders that immediately get destroyed with a single card and I've wondered what use he is.

But when he's good man is he good. He can make up for his lacklustre stats in weird combos involving Eggs or Ancestral Spirit or both! One game Rivendare got me a board that was Egg, Egg, Nerubian, Nerubian, Rivendare, which was so satisfying that I immediately forgave him previous games that he was not particularly useful in.

I use Rivendare in my Naxx zoo, and I don't have that many deathrattle minions.  He's mainly a cheap combo piece for the eggs, of course, but I find he also serves as a quasi-taunt since opponents usually want to remove him right away.  So I use him as a delay tactic where my opponent has to skip a turn to remove him.  I rarely save him for combos anymore.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1461
  • Respect: +517
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #219 on: September 25, 2014, 11:59:14 pm »
0

Okay here's my shot at a Shaman Deathrattler deck:
...
Anyhow thoughts? I'm not sure exactly what to do with Rivendare when I have him in hand, but he just seems like a good idea in this deck.

I didn't put Rivandare in my deck simply because I don't like his stats, and he's yet another card that is dependent on other minions being out. I also don't run Bloodlust for this reason, as very often it can end up not being very helpful. I also don't run mana tide though, but I feel that your deck may run into top decking issues. Perhaps not, but I've found Shaman to need Drakes or something giving +card to keep up hand size for most of the game.

I'm still not sure about him, as you say his stats are terrible. I always hold onto him in hopes of comboing him with something, which has mixed results. Some games I've had to toss him out for no purpose other than to draw out a spell or used him for a play involving 4 Spectral Spiders that immediately get destroyed with a single card and I've wondered what use he is.

But when he's good man is he good. He can make up for his lacklustre stats in weird combos involving Eggs or Ancestral Spirit or both! One game Rivendare got me a board that was Egg, Egg, Nerubian, Nerubian, Rivendare, which was so satisfying that I immediately forgave him previous games that he was not particularly useful in.

I use Rivendare in my Naxx zoo, and I don't have that many deathrattle minions.  He's mainly a cheap combo piece for the eggs, of course, but I find he also serves as a quasi-taunt since opponents usually want to remove him right away.  So I use him as a delay tactic where my opponent has to skip a turn to remove him.  I rarely save him for combos anymore.

Which is kindof the same as a Mogadishu Warden then and that's a card I think is pretty bad. I don't think he's worth it unless you're getting some value out of Deathrattles.
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #220 on: September 26, 2014, 12:19:59 am »
0

I use Rivendare in my Naxx zoo, and I don't have that many deathrattle minions.  He's mainly a cheap combo piece for the eggs, of course, but I find he also serves as a quasi-taunt since opponents usually want to remove him right away.  So I use him as a delay tactic where my opponent has to skip a turn to remove him.  I rarely save him for combos anymore.

Which is kindof the same as a Mogadishu Warden then and that's a card I think is pretty bad. I don't think he's worth it unless you're getting some value out of Deathrattles.

It's exactly the same as a Warden.  I actually Sunfury Protector'd him when he got silenced in a recent game, so he was an actual Warden.

I mean, when I pull off the Egg/Egg/Pit Terror Combo for a 3/7 Terror and 4 4/4 nerubians, that's amazing.  But the cards don't always line up that way.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1461
  • Respect: +517
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #221 on: September 26, 2014, 10:46:13 am »
0

I mean, when I pull off the Egg/Egg/Pit Terror Combo for a 3/7 Terror and 4 4/4 nerubians, that's amazing.  But the cards don't always line up that way.

Yeah, but worst case scenario your Void Terror is a 3/3 for 3 mana. Still a decent card. The fact that it can eat your eggs, spiders or whatever minion you cast Power Overwhelming on is a bonus.

I'd way rather have a naked Void Terror than a Baron Rivendare with nothing to deathrattle (A 4-drop card that I should note would trade evenly or unfavourably with many 3 drops). If you're not getting something out of his deathrattle bonus consistently, you'd probably be better served by a stronger 4 drop. Playing him for nothing but his stats is an unfortunate necessity sometimes, I think he needs to be kept for some sort of deathrattle bonus combo if he's going to pull his weight in the deck.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 9893
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +9907
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #222 on: September 26, 2014, 11:05:35 am »
0

So, I have a question about this deck again. The list is slightly different now, I have a second Divine Favor instead of the Harvest Golem and a second Owl instead of the Bluegill, but mostly similar. I've been thinking of crafting a Leeroy for the deck, but since they gave him the nerf, I guess he's still pretty good? Or not worth it? Can the $3 4/2 Charge guy that gives the opponent a mana crystal replace Leeroy?
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's new 2017 album for free

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #223 on: September 26, 2014, 11:08:49 am »
0

So, I have a question about this deck again. The list is slightly different now, I have a second Divine Favor instead of the Harvest Golem and a second Owl instead of the Bluegill, but mostly similar. I've been thinking of crafting a Leeroy for the deck, but since they gave him the nerf, I guess he's still pretty good? Or not worth it? Can the $3 4/2 Charge guy that gives the opponent a mana crystal replace Leeroy?

I think you generally want to run 2 wilfriders, as well as the Arcane Golems. Maybe replace 1 arcane with Leeroy if you want, but this deck doesn't feel aggressive enough. Worgen infiltrator isn't super aggressive, and harvest Golem is value, not aggression. SSC is ok I guess, I'm not too sure what else to put the spot though.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 9893
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +9907
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #224 on: September 26, 2014, 11:50:23 am »
0

So, I have a question about this deck again. The list is slightly different now, I have a second Divine Favor instead of the Harvest Golem and a second Owl instead of the Bluegill, but mostly similar. I've been thinking of crafting a Leeroy for the deck, but since they gave him the nerf, I guess he's still pretty good? Or not worth it? Can the $3 4/2 Charge guy that gives the opponent a mana crystal replace Leeroy?

I think you generally want to run 2 wilfriders, as well as the Arcane Golems. Maybe replace 1 arcane with Leeroy if you want, but this deck doesn't feel aggressive enough. Worgen infiltrator isn't super aggressive, and harvest Golem is value, not aggression. SSC is ok I guess, I'm not too sure what else to put the spot though.
I don't run the Golem anymore. What would you play instead of Infiltrator?
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's new 2017 album for free

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #225 on: September 26, 2014, 12:19:38 pm »
0

So, I have a question about this deck again. The list is slightly different now, I have a second Divine Favor instead of the Harvest Golem and a second Owl instead of the Bluegill, but mostly similar. I've been thinking of crafting a Leeroy for the deck, but since they gave him the nerf, I guess he's still pretty good? Or not worth it? Can the $3 4/2 Charge guy that gives the opponent a mana crystal replace Leeroy?

I think you generally want to run 2 wilfriders, as well as the Arcane Golems. Maybe replace 1 arcane with Leeroy if you want, but this deck doesn't feel aggressive enough. Worgen infiltrator isn't super aggressive, and harvest Golem is value, not aggression. SSC is ok I guess, I'm not too sure what else to put the spot though.
I don't run the Golem anymore. What would you play instead of Infiltrator?

Why don't you run golem? And I don't know what to run instead, I guess you want the 2 drops, but I never considered it a very amazing card.
Logged

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1461
  • Respect: +517
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #226 on: September 26, 2014, 12:22:25 pm »
0

So, I have a question about this deck again. The list is slightly different now, I have a second Divine Favor instead of the Harvest Golem and a second Owl instead of the Bluegill, but mostly similar. I've been thinking of crafting a Leeroy for the deck, but since they gave him the nerf, I guess he's still pretty good? Or not worth it? Can the $3 4/2 Charge guy that gives the opponent a mana crystal replace Leeroy?

I think you generally want to run 2 wilfriders, as well as the Arcane Golems. Maybe replace 1 arcane with Leeroy if you want, but this deck doesn't feel aggressive enough. Worgen infiltrator isn't super aggressive, and harvest Golem is value, not aggression. SSC is ok I guess, I'm not too sure what else to put the spot though.
I don't run the Golem anymore. What would you play instead of Infiltrator?

Wargen seems to be in the deck because there aren't really any other good 1-drops to fit the decks style left? You might want to focus a little bit less on making sure you have a strong start (you have lots of 1s and 2s to choose from already) and work on strong cards for your 3rd and 4th turns. Defender of Argus, Dark Iron Dwarf, or another Wolfrider all seem like they'd help in that regard. (I'd probably go with the DoA or Wolfrider since you're a Paladin deck and those cards work better with Equality).
Logged

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1461
  • Respect: +517
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #227 on: September 26, 2014, 12:24:15 pm »
0

Scarlet Crusaders and a single Sword of Justice seem like they'd work well here also.
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #228 on: September 26, 2014, 12:25:36 pm »
0

Scarlet Crusaders and a single Sword of Justice seem like they'd work well here also.

Yeah true, lots of aggro Paladin's run Sword of Justice.
Logged

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1461
  • Respect: +517
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #229 on: September 26, 2014, 12:35:48 pm »
0

I just looked it up because I couldn't remember it's mana cost and got a good look at it's artwork. I usually don't comment on this sort of thing, but what a frigging dumb looking sword. IT'S GOT TWO BLADES MAN! IT'S SO BADASS! TWICE THE BLADE=====FIVE TIMES THE CUTTING!

Edit: http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/567-sword-of-justice
Logged

blueblimp

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2717
  • Respect: +1457
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #230 on: October 04, 2014, 05:54:11 pm »
0

Odd thing about Wild Growth as P2: if you coin Wild Growth, it's like exchanging player seat except that: your opponent doesn't have a coin and you skipped your 1 and 2 mana turns. As P2, averaged over both turns, you're 1/2 mana behind, 1/2 card ahead, and have a coin. After coining Wild Growth, you're 1/2 mana ahead and 1/2 card behind, like as if you were P1 to begin with, except your opponent doesn't get a coin in return, and your next turn is with 3 mana, like P1's turn 3.

I suppose it's true that the coin is significant enough, and P1's first two turns useless enough (if not playing Wild Growth), that this is still an advantage for P2.
Logged

Titandrake

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1976
  • Respect: +2132
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #231 on: October 11, 2014, 10:45:04 pm »
0

I played in a mini-Hearthstone tourney today! It was only 8 people, so we did 4 rounds of Swiss, best of 3, where I went 2-2.

One of my losses was pretty funny though. My opponent's playing Control Warrior, I'm playing some janky Undertaker Priest, and he's just played Loatheb. I drop Deathload + Unstable Ghoul + Injured Blademaster and heal Blademaster, so now I have 4 minions to his 1.

His turn: Brawl, he rolls the 1/5 and Loatheb lives...and pulls out Grommash from Deathlord, which comes into play before Unstable Ghoul trigger, so it got activated as well. Needless to say, I lost that game pretty badly.
Logged
I have a blog! It's called Sorta Insightful. Check it out?

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #232 on: October 12, 2014, 05:53:54 am »
0

Just lost to a warrior in ranked...I know it's lame to complain about being Legendary'ed to death, but man...

Rag, Geddon, Sylvanas, Cairne, Alex...I only have 2 polymorphs.

In the end, I died to fatigue, and not him, though.  That's something.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1164
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #233 on: October 12, 2014, 08:58:59 am »
0

Just lost to a warrior in ranked...I know it's lame to complain about being Legendary'ed to death, but man...

Rag, Geddon, Sylvanas, Cairne, Alex...I only have 2 polymorphs.

In the end, I died to fatigue, and not him, though.  That's something.

Thats how the deck works. Also he had Gromash and probably Harrison, Enranged Gromash (it usually follows an Alex turn) is his main win condition, you always have to lookout for that thing.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2014, 10:00:33 am by Grujah »
Logged

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1461
  • Respect: +517
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #234 on: October 12, 2014, 12:49:46 pm »
0

Just lost to a warrior in ranked...I know it's lame to complain about being Legendary'ed to death, but man...

Rag, Geddon, Sylvanas, Cairne, Alex...I only have 2 polymorphs.

In the end, I died to fatigue, and not him, though.  That's something.

I hear you, that deck is super annoying to play against, you need so much removal in your deck to outlast it. Usually it's better to just try and out aggro it because it's a huge late-game deck. You need to play more aggressively and win before he can do more than play a Cairne or Sylvanas or you've already lost.
Logged

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1461
  • Respect: +517
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #235 on: October 12, 2014, 12:50:49 pm »
0

Just lost to a warrior in ranked...I know it's lame to complain about being Legendary'ed to death, but man...

Rag, Geddon, Sylvanas, Cairne, Alex...I only have 2 polymorphs.

In the end, I died to fatigue, and not him, though.  That's something.

Thats how the deck works. Also he had Gromash and probably Harrison, Enranged Gromash (it usually follows an Alex turn) is his main win condition, you always have to lookout for that thing.

Ysera and Loatheb are often in that deck too. It's pretty ridiculous.
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #236 on: October 12, 2014, 05:08:34 pm »
0

Just lost to a warrior in ranked...I know it's lame to complain about being Legendary'ed to death, but man...

Rag, Geddon, Sylvanas, Cairne, Alex...I only have 2 polymorphs.

In the end, I died to fatigue, and not him, though.  That's something.

Thats how the deck works. Also he had Gromash and probably Harrison, Enranged Gromash (it usually follows an Alex turn) is his main win condition, you always have to lookout for that thing.

Ysera and Loatheb are often in that deck too. It's pretty ridiculous.

He played Loatheb early.  I feel like a Kel'thuzad was there, too.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #237 on: October 12, 2014, 05:22:34 pm »
0

Just lost to a warrior in ranked...I know it's lame to complain about being Legendary'ed to death, but man...

Rag, Geddon, Sylvanas, Cairne, Alex...I only have 2 polymorphs.

In the end, I died to fatigue, and not him, though.  That's something.

Thats how the deck works. Also he had Gromash and probably Harrison, Enranged Gromash (it usually follows an Alex turn) is his main win condition, you always have to lookout for that thing.

Ysera and Loatheb are often in that deck too. It's pretty ridiculous.

He played Loatheb early.  I feel like a Kel'thuzad was there, too.

Kel'thuzad is really only good if you have enough little minions to take advantage of his ability. Shaman is really good for him, probably Paladin is not bad. But he really is a midrange deck kind of card, not for a deck that plays tons of huge minions.
Logged

Titandrake

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1976
  • Respect: +2132
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #238 on: October 14, 2014, 12:50:05 am »
0

How important are Thalnos and Edwin to Miracle Rogue these days? I was looking through my collections, and discovered I actually have 2 Preps, plus 2 copies of all the other important spells, and a Malygos if I wanted to run the Malygos variation. I'm giving some pretty serious thought to building the deck, but I'm not sure if I want to spend the dust on the legendaries or not.
Logged
I have a blog! It's called Sorta Insightful. Check it out?

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1461
  • Respect: +517
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #239 on: October 14, 2014, 01:09:35 am »
0

How important are Thalnos and Edwin to Miracle Rogue these days? I was looking through my collections, and discovered I actually have 2 Preps, plus 2 copies of all the other important spells, and a Malygos if I wanted to run the Malygos variation. I'm giving some pretty serious thought to building the deck, but I'm not sure if I want to spend the dust on the legendaries or not.

I gave it a shot last week in casual with 2 preps and all the spells, but no Edwin/Thalnos/Leeroy and I can say that was definitely not good enough.
Logged

Titandrake

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1976
  • Respect: +2132
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #240 on: October 14, 2014, 02:17:18 am »
0

How important are Thalnos and Edwin to Miracle Rogue these days? I was looking through my collections, and discovered I actually have 2 Preps, plus 2 copies of all the other important spells, and a Malygos if I wanted to run the Malygos variation. I'm giving some pretty serious thought to building the deck, but I'm not sure if I want to spend the dust on the legendaries or not.

I gave it a shot last week in casual with 2 preps and all the spells, but no Edwin/Thalnos/Leeroy and I can say that was definitely not good enough.

I have both Malygos + Leeroy - it might be decent enough. I'm busy for the next couple of days so I can't go try it out right now.
Logged
I have a blog! It's called Sorta Insightful. Check it out?

EgorK

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 272
  • Respect: +73
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #241 on: October 14, 2014, 09:12:02 am »
0

Maly rogue is quite good in current meta. Edwin is not cornerstone of this deck
Logged

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3260
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +1868
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #242 on: October 14, 2014, 12:11:29 pm »
0

I just opened a Leeroy the other day. Is Leeroy still good in Miracle Rogue after the erf?
Logged

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1461
  • Respect: +517
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #243 on: October 14, 2014, 12:49:36 pm »
0

I just opened a Leeroy the other day. Is Leeroy still good in Miracle Rogue after the erf?

Yeah, I think he's still pretty good in Miracle, you can't get off quite the really crazy combos you could previously (Leeroy, Shadowstep, Leeroy, Shadowstep, Leeroy, Cold Blood, Cold Blood for 26 damage for instance), but you can still Leeroy, Shadowstep, Leeroy, Cold Blood x 2, for a slightly less crazy combo of 20 damage and still very scary.
Logged

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2083
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #244 on: October 14, 2014, 03:20:43 pm »
0

I'm not so sure how I feel about Cold Blood in Miracle. It's a very all-in kind of card. 4 damage for 1 mana is really good, but the card can end up dead in your hand a lot. Running 2x seems like you're pushing it. It used to be common to see 2, but I think 0-1 was more common last I had seen. Anyway, I don't know about giving credit to Leeroy for the Cold Blood damage. Leeroy is a 5 mana Fireball that turns Shadowsteps into 3 mana Fireballs. Leeroy+Shadowstep is like 2x Fireball, so that's still quite a fine finisher.
Logged

Titandrake

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1976
  • Respect: +2132
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #245 on: October 14, 2014, 05:41:24 pm »
0

I've been looking at the deck from

For Cold Blood, I think the key thing is that on the turn you go off, you have an Auctioneer in play already. So, you're very likely to have Cold Blood not be a dead card, since you can just put it on Auctioneer and attack with that.

The deck in the video has some interesting choices - no SI:7, Perdition's Blade is 4 damage on the turn you play it + gives you a Deadly Poison target for cheap, Arcane Golem for Shadowstep target instead. No Malygos because it seems like it plans to win before 9 mana can even happen.
Logged
I have a blog! It's called Sorta Insightful. Check it out?

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2083
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #246 on: October 14, 2014, 07:50:27 pm »
0

Cold blood is kind of "win more". So is Conceal. If you have an Auctioneer out, you're in great shape no matter what. If you don't have an Auctioneer out, the cards are terrible. So running 2 of each makes your deck really "coin-flippy". If you happen to draw Auctioneer, you can't lose; if you don't, you can't win. Day9's deck is really all-in on getting lucky and drawing an Auctioneer. The better Miracle decks, imo, run more minions to hold up the midgame until you draw that Auctioneer, and then single Conceal, 0-1 Cold Blood. With no Auctioneer yet, I'd much rather be able to play Farseer/SI:7/Azure/etc. than to stare at a hand full of unplayable 1 mana spells.
Logged

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1461
  • Respect: +517
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #247 on: October 15, 2014, 12:48:41 pm »
0

I've been on a hot streak with what I'm calling Yeti Watcher. It's a variant of Ancient Watcher bolstered by a whole bunch of Yeti size minions. It lacked some removal so I added a BGH.

0s:
2 x Innervate
2s:
2 x Watcher
2 x Egg
2 x Protector
1 x Mark
2 x Wrath
1 x Wild Growth
3s:
1 x SSC
1 x BGH
4s:
2 x Yeti
2 x Keeper
2 x Spellbreaker
2 x Swipe
2 x Defenders
5s:
2 x Druid
1 x Loatheb
6s:
1 x Cairne
7s:
1 x AoL
9s:
1 x Cenarius

The goal of the deck is to protect your hero with Watchers and Eggs while threats that are difficult to remove with AoE smacks your opponent or his minions around. Ideal opening combo when you are Control is Watcher or Egg+Activation (silences can buff Watcher, but not Eggs, buffers can buff eggs, taunters activate both though are not ideal for Watcher). Ideal opening when you are the aggro/beatdown is Turn 2 Innervate into Yeti (though a turn 2 watcher/protector is also really strong) It's a little tricky to get a feel for when you are the control and when you are the beatdown, as this changes depending on the deck you're up against, but it's a fun, flexible deck and very effective against a lot of decks, especially ones that are vulnerable to Silence (you have 4 silences, and don't need them for the Watchers, though they are sometimes preferable to Taunt).

Room for improvement:
I'd sub out Cenarius for Rag or Ysera if I had either of them. I'd also sub out the SSC for another BGH if I had a second one to improve this deck against late game decks and probably something for a second AoL if I had one. This deck could probably use the FoN/SR combo to good effect as well. I don't have FoN so I'm playing without it, but if you have them that might make this deck better. The Black Knight would work really well and combos with Mark.

Notable matchups:
This deck struggles against Paladin Weeny decks as Equality is really strong against it. Try to trade before the Equality combos go off.
This deck is pretty great against aggro if you get a Watcher or Egg combo, but can have a rough time if you don't have a Watcher or Egg in play by turn 2, it's worth Mulliganing pretty aggressively to get one.
This deck is really strong against Priest who can't use Shadow Words against a lot of the threats in this deck (careful not to buff cards to be above 4 against Priest).
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 12:59:13 pm by Jorbles »
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #248 on: October 16, 2014, 03:57:20 am »
0

So I started running this hunter deck recently, and it's a lot of fun:

http://www.liquidhearth.com/forum/constructed-strategy/468923-jbfletchers-hunter-sligh-1-legendary-deck

Only changes I've made is dropping a Belcher for Leeroy and two Explosive Traps and one Snake Trap instead of the other way around (I had to craft the one Snake Trap).

It's been working really well so far and it's a lot of fun.  The hyenas are the surprising strengths.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1461
  • Respect: +517
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #249 on: October 16, 2014, 10:35:45 am »
0

So I started running this hunter deck recently, and it's a lot of fun:

http://www.liquidhearth.com/forum/constructed-strategy/468923-jbfletchers-hunter-sligh-1-legendary-deck

Only changes I've made is dropping a Belcher for Leeroy and two Explosive Traps and one Snake Trap instead of the other way around (I had to craft the one Snake Trap).

It's been working really well so far and it's a lot of fun.  The hyenas are the surprising strengths.

That's a fun looking deck. I might try it, I'm only missing 1 Snake Trap and 1 Eaglehorn to do this. I'll sub in an Explosive Trap and a Flare probably. Seen a lot of Secrets recently.
Logged

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3260
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +1868
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #250 on: October 16, 2014, 11:36:56 am »
0

I just remembered that I can now pull off the Leeroy+UtH combo now that I have Leeroy.
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #251 on: October 18, 2014, 07:37:56 am »
0

How do I beat handlock?  It feels like if I can't burst from 21 life to zero in one turn, I can't win.

And I just don't have much capability for a 21 attack turn...
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

EgorK

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 272
  • Respect: +73
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #252 on: October 18, 2014, 08:55:09 am »
0

How do I beat handlock?  It feels like if I can't burst from 21 life to zero in one turn, I can't win.

And I just don't have much capability for a 21 attack turn...

You do not need to burst him in one turn. Playing hunter you do not care about overdamaging handlock, just save kill comands for last push to face
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #253 on: October 18, 2014, 09:02:36 am »
0

How do I beat handlock?  It feels like if I can't burst from 21 life to zero in one turn, I can't win.

And I just don't have much capability for a 21 attack turn...

You do not need to burst him in one turn. Playing hunter you do not care about overdamaging handlock, just save kill comands for last push to face

Really?  Every game is lost when he triple Giants, argus two of them and shadowflame the third...

He can't cast Giants at 21 health, but below that, as he approaches killable levels, the Giants destroy me.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

EgorK

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 272
  • Respect: +73
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #254 on: October 18, 2014, 11:33:27 am »
0

How do I beat handlock?  It feels like if I can't burst from 21 life to zero in one turn, I can't win.

And I just don't have much capability for a 21 attack turn...

You do not need to burst him in one turn. Playing hunter you do not care about overdamaging handlock, just save kill comands for last push to face

Really?  Every game is lost when he triple Giants, argus two of them and shadowflame the third...

He can't cast Giants at 21 health, but below that, as he approaches killable levels, the Giants destroy me.

But really, he can't do that realistically at over 10 health. And at 10 he still need dream hand to do it. And you can still win by double KC
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #255 on: October 18, 2014, 11:40:15 am »
0

How do I beat handlock?  It feels like if I can't burst from 21 life to zero in one turn, I can't win.

And I just don't have much capability for a 21 attack turn...

You do not need to burst him in one turn. Playing hunter you do not care about overdamaging handlock, just save kill comands for last push to face

Really?  Every game is lost when he triple Giants, argus two of them and shadowflame the third...

He can't cast Giants at 21 health, but below that, as he approaches killable levels, the Giants destroy me.

But really, he can't do that realistically at over 10 health. And at 10 he still need dream hand to do it. And you can still win by double KC

Yeah I've found beating Handlock pretty easy recently. I'm playing a reincarnate Shaman and there are a lot of ways to deal with giants if you have a couple minion on the board. And Shaman, my deck in particular, generally has a lot of minions out. And with all the deathrattles even if he board clears there are generally some little guys left over.
Logged

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3260
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +1868
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #256 on: October 18, 2014, 11:50:01 am »
0

How do I beat handlock?  It feels like if I can't burst from 21 life to zero in one turn, I can't win.

And I just don't have much capability for a 21 attack turn...

You do not need to burst him in one turn. Playing hunter you do not care about overdamaging handlock, just save kill comands for last push to face

Really?  Every game is lost when he triple Giants, argus two of them and shadowflame the third...

He can't cast Giants at 21 health, but below that, as he approaches killable levels, the Giants destroy me.

But really, he can't do that realistically at over 10 health. And at 10 he still need dream hand to do it. And you can still win by double KC

Yeah I've found beating Handlock pretty easy recently. I'm playing a reincarnate Shaman and there are a lot of ways to deal with giants if you have a couple minion on the board. And Shaman, my deck in particular, generally has a lot of minions out. And with all the deathrattles even if he board clears there are generally some little guys left over.
Shaman tends to have the edge against handlock, especially if they run Bloodlust. I've noticed it's really effective to deliberately keep handlocks at high health until you have near-lethal.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 9893
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +9907
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #257 on: October 18, 2014, 12:15:04 pm »
0

I'm playing Paladin aggro and I think the Handlock matchup is slightly favorable for me. Divine Favor is super useful, Equality deals with the Giants and I can also deal a lot of damage pretty fast. The problematic games are when I'm forced to play an Equality at a suboptimal time or when I don't have it.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's new 2017 album for free

blueblimp

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2717
  • Respect: +1457
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #258 on: October 18, 2014, 03:53:45 pm »
+1

When playing against Handlock, keep in mind that they won't always have two Molten Giants in hand, or even one, and in the cases where they do, they might not have any taunt-givers in hand. If you don't ever play around Molten Giants, you will still win some games. If you can play around Molten Giants, you either want to put them low enough that you can finish with spells to face, or hold back a bit of damage to put them at a total where you can kill in one turn using a burst combo. Priest isn't very good at either of these, which is one reason they struggle vs Handlock.
Logged

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2083
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #259 on: October 18, 2014, 04:44:59 pm »
+2

I think a lot of people try too hard to play around Molten Giants. If you don't have a burst combo to kill from over half health, then keeping your opponent over half health doesn't really do any good. Waiting just gives him more time to draw the Giants.
Logged

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3260
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +1868
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #260 on: October 18, 2014, 08:52:42 pm »
0

I think a lot of people try too hard to play around Molten Giants. If you don't have a burst combo to kill from over half health, then keeping your opponent over half health doesn't really do any good. Waiting just gives him more time to draw the Giants.
Pretty much this if you're a Priest. I can't see Priest outliving handlock in the long term.
Logged

nkirbit

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 238
  • Respect: +45
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #261 on: October 19, 2014, 11:09:56 pm »
0

I just opened a Grom, which gives me enough incentive to try and finally try out control warrior.  Anyone have a list they particularly like or would recommend?  Just looking around I see quite a variety of different lists, so if anyone has any lists they like that would be as good of a place as anywhere to start.
Logged

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2083
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #262 on: October 19, 2014, 11:25:13 pm »
0

^I'm currently playing control Warrior at rank 2, and my list is:
2x Execute
2x Shield Slam
2x Slam
2x Axe
2x Armorsmith
2x Taskmaster
2x Shield Block
2x Acolyte
2x Death's Bite
2x Korkron
1x Spellbreaker
1x Brawl
1x Faceless
2x Belcher
1x Sylvanas
1x Geddon
1x Grom
1x Rag
1x Alex

More "standard" control Warriors don't run Slam or Korkron or Geddon, and have Unstable Ghoul, BGH, Loatheb, Cairne and/or Ysera. My version is a little meta-specific. I see mostly a lot of decks based on overwhelming the board with small minions (Hunter, Shaman, Zoo), and I think Slam, Korkorn, and Geddon are all very good vs this without giving up too much vs slower decks. Unstable can potentially 2-for-1 or better when Slam won't, but if gives them some initiative to decide what hits the Ghoul. With Slam, you make sure the Knife Juggler (or whatever other priority target) is dead asap. Korkron is great vs stuff with 2 attack or less, since vs them it's nearly an Argent Commander for 2 mana less. And Geddon is a board clear that transitions into a threat, while vs control, it eats a BGH that would otherwise go to Rag or Alex. Slam is also fine vs control as you can cantrip it, and Korkron can sometimes give Priests a bit of trouble (though this deck is still a big underdog to control Priest).

EDIT: I should mention, a big selling point of this deck is that nearly 2/3 of the cards can affect the opponent's board the turn I play them, which makes it much harder for them to establish a board to overwhelm me with. This makes it not too much trouble to survive and then win when the big cards come out.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 11:40:10 pm by HiveMindEmulator »
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #263 on: October 19, 2014, 11:36:46 pm »
0

So I've risen higher than ever before in ranked (9 + 5 stars, which isn't much, but much better than before for me) using the sligh hunter deck, slightly modified:

1x Hunter's Mark
2x Undertaker
2x Webspinner
2x Explosive Trap
1x Snake Trap
2x Haunted Creeper
2x Knife Juggler
2x Mad Scientist
2x Scavenging Hyena
2x Eaglehorn Bow
2x Animal Companion
2x Kill Command
2x Unleash the Hounds
2x Houndmaster
1x Sludge Belcher
1x Leeroy Jenkins
2x Savannah Highmane

I'm finding the trouble I run into is Handlock, Priests, and Warriors built to outlast opponents.  They're generally removing my big threats (pumped up hyenas) and my usual removal doesn't work on giant minions (traps, lots of trading, juggled knives, etc.).

Should I think about adding some removal?  A second Hunter's Mark?  Explosive Shot?  I mean, Hunter's Mark + Snake Trap/Unleash gets rid of one big minion.  One or two Kill Commands can get another.  Leeroy can maybe take out another...but that's it.  But if I'm adding things in, what am I removing?

I've thought about trading out a Bow for a Hunter's Mark.  Or a Houndmaster for Deadly Shot?  Gladiator's Longbow?
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 46 Games, 23 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2083
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #264 on: October 19, 2014, 11:50:00 pm »
0

^That deck is just a super-aggro deck. You're never going to get above 50% vs Control Warrior or Priest, though you should be fast enough to give Handlock trouble, and should get some wins vs the super-control decks when you draw well. I don't think you can get enough from adding more removal compared to what you lose in aggression. If the game goes past turn 8, you're in bad shape either way.
Logged

KingZog3

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3163
  • Respect: +1365
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #265 on: October 20, 2014, 12:52:35 am »
0

I've been seeing hunters with similar decks run Leper Gnomes. I haven't been too impressed by them yet, but they do ok. Sludge belcher seems out of place though. It's a slow card isn't it? Or is the value too good not have at least one in your deck?
Logged

HiveMindEmulator

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2222
  • Respect: +2083
    • View Profile
Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #266 on: October 20, 2014, 12:59:43 am »
0

Sludge Belcher is in like every deck. It's just too good. In a control deck, it soaks up a bunch of damage from a more aggressive deck, and in the aggressive deck, it protects your other threats from being efficiently removed while sticking to the board to provide more damage itself (and also buffs undertaker).
Logged

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2319
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1500
    • View Profile