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Author Topic: IsoHearth I: Nkirbit Wins!  (Read 16073 times)

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nkirbit

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Re: IsoHearth I: Signup Thread
« Reply #75 on: February 03, 2015, 12:06:13 pm »
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Nick #11795
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popsofctown

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Re: IsoHearth I: Signup Thread
« Reply #76 on: February 03, 2015, 12:45:45 pm »
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KirbyHero#1343
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Also you probably are an expert if you buy two bureaucrats early.

ashersky

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Re: IsoHearth I: Signup Thread
« Reply #77 on: February 03, 2015, 03:15:27 pm »
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I'm in, bkirbit #1439.

we need three decks for this?

Yes, 3 decks, 3 classes.
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Re: IsoHearth I: Signup Thread
« Reply #78 on: February 03, 2015, 10:52:59 pm »
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Signed up:

KingZog3#1700
bkirbit #1439
Nick #11795
KirbyHero#1343

Remember, sign ups close Friday, decks need to be PMed to me by Saturday.  I'll post match ups on Sunday.
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
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Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

KingZog3

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Re: IsoHearth I: Signup Thread
« Reply #79 on: February 03, 2015, 11:08:18 pm »
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I think I won't have time or energy for this. Sorry, but it's really not convenient for me right now. I think I need to opt out.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: IsoHearth I: Signup Thread
« Reply #80 on: February 03, 2015, 11:41:01 pm »
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If we don't have many people (6 or less), I think we should do a round robin.
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KingZog3

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Re: IsoHearth I: Signup Thread
« Reply #81 on: February 04, 2015, 01:13:19 am »
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If this is one week later, not next week, I can probably play.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: IsoHearth I: Signup Thread
« Reply #82 on: February 04, 2015, 11:57:53 am »
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mikohoy#1464

You should update the OP.
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ashersky

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Re: IsoHearth I: Signup Thread
« Reply #83 on: February 08, 2015, 02:42:15 am »
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Final tally:

bkirbit #1439
Nick #11795
KirbyHero#1343
mikohoy#1464
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

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Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

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Re: IsoHearth I: Starting Tomorrow
« Reply #84 on: February 08, 2015, 02:46:59 am »
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I need three decklists from three players, still.

With only four players, we can go round robin.

Round 1:

Player 1 vs. Player 2
Player 4 vs. Player 3

Round 2:

Player 1 vs. Player 4
Player 3 vs. Player 2

Round 3:

Player 1 vs. Player 3
Player 2 vs. Player 4

Winners get 1 point, top two point getters play a final?
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

Twistedarcher

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Re: IsoHearth I: Starting Tomorrow
« Reply #85 on: February 08, 2015, 11:28:11 am »
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I think it would be unfair to have someone at 3-0 and someone at 2-1 play a winner takes all final -- I think if anything, we should do an advantaged final, that way you need two losses to get eliminated from the tournament.
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nkirbit

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Re: IsoHearth I: Starting Tomorrow
« Reply #86 on: February 08, 2015, 02:14:04 pm »
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If someone goes 3-0 in the round robin, they should just win the event, right?

I'll work on decklists and get them to you by the end of the day, Ash.
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EgorK

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Re: IsoHearth I: Starting Tomorrow
« Reply #87 on: February 08, 2015, 03:07:06 pm »
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I would propose just double elemination. Round robin do not really work in Hearthstone it seems
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popsofctown

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Re: IsoHearth I: Starting Tomorrow
« Reply #88 on: February 08, 2015, 04:45:42 pm »
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Uh.  Round Robin vs. Double Elim doesn't really have to do with the game being played in terms of accuracy of the winner.  You'll have to expound if you want to explain what you mean here.
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EgorK

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Re: IsoHearth I: Starting Tomorrow
« Reply #89 on: February 08, 2015, 05:38:48 pm »
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Uh.  Round Robin vs. Double Elim doesn't really have to do with the game being played in terms of accuracy of the winner.  You'll have to expound if you want to explain what you mean here.

In football and similar games there are neat tie-breakers and stuff. In HS using match scores as tiebreaks seems frowned upon. Actually if it would be up to me I'll make group stages in top football tournaments double elemination as well
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popsofctown

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Re: IsoHearth I: Starting Tomorrow
« Reply #90 on: February 08, 2015, 05:47:18 pm »
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Double elim is never more accurate than round robin or swiss, even if you use a d20 for tiebreakers.  Tiebreaker methods that don't make sense look nasty and and make the tournament seem less fair, but are actually more fair than double elims arbitrary way of pairing players for matchups and fewer games played overall.

It's an awful a lot like whether Treasure Map or King's Court is more random.  One of them is just more in your face about it.
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EgorK

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Re: IsoHearth I: Starting Tomorrow
« Reply #91 on: February 08, 2015, 06:11:36 pm »
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Double elim is never more accurate than round robin or swiss, even if you use a d20 for tiebreakers.  Tiebreaker methods that don't make sense look nasty and and make the tournament seem less fair, but are actually more fair than double elims arbitrary way of pairing players for matchups and fewer games played overall.

It's an awful a lot like whether Treasure Map or King's Court is more random.  One of them is just more in your face about it.

I do not believe what you are say is relevant for 4 player groups
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: IsoHearth I: Starting Tomorrow
« Reply #92 on: February 08, 2015, 06:27:09 pm »
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^consider 4 players called rock, paper, scissors, and trash. Trash loses to everything, and the rest is standard RPS. Whoever plays vs Trash first will win. Draw out the bracket. He will never have to face the deck that beats him, since that deck will be stuck in the losers bracket with his best matchup nowhere in sight.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2015, 06:29:32 pm by HiveMindEmulator »
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Twistedarcher

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Re: IsoHearth I: Starting Tomorrow
« Reply #93 on: February 08, 2015, 06:27:47 pm »
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Okay cool. I'm going to try streaming my games, if that's alright with everyone in the tournament.
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EgorK

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Re: IsoHearth I: Starting Tomorrow
« Reply #94 on: February 08, 2015, 06:56:30 pm »
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Supose more probable win distribution. Here's results for both round robin and double elimination (calculated, not simulated):

Win probabilities
1   0.0   0.6   0.7   0.8
2   0.4   0.0   0.6   0.7
3   0.3   0.4   0.0   0.6
4   0.2   0.3   0.4   0.0
Round robin
Advance
1 0.7651199999999999
2 0.59824
3 0.40175999999999995
4 0.23488
Win
1 0.47312
2 0.28424
3 0.16176000000000004
4 0.08088
Double elimination
Advance
1 0.7858400000000001
2 0.6075466666666668
3 0.39245333333333327
4 0.21416000000000004
Win
1 0.5531754666666664
2 0.2763130666666666
3 0.1245696
4 0.04594186666666668

So both if we need to determine 2 advances and if we need to determine single winner double elimination is better. In case you provided there is no difference between double elimination and round robin - only the fact that however was paired with trash was decided by draw and not by skill, but supposedly skills are same
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EgorK

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Re: IsoHearth I: Starting Tomorrow
« Reply #95 on: February 08, 2015, 07:03:38 pm »
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popsofctown

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Re: IsoHearth I: Starting Tomorrow
« Reply #96 on: February 08, 2015, 07:17:53 pm »
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I love how mathy everyone is in a Dominion environment.  You try to explain this stuff to fighting game players, they're like, "Huh, what, double elim the most hype, wanna pump some iron after grand finals?"
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ashersky

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Re: IsoHearth I: Signup Thread
« Reply #97 on: February 09, 2015, 03:10:50 am »
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Final tally:

bkirbit #1439
Nick #11795
KirbyHero#1343
mikohoy#1464

Player numbers:

bkirbit is player 1
Nick is player 2
KirbyHero is player 4
mikohoy is player 3

Round 1:

Player 1 vs. Player 2
Player 4 vs. Player 3

Round 2:

Player 1 vs. Player 4
Player 3 vs. Player 2

Round 3:

Player 1 vs. Player 3
Player 2 vs. Player 4

Here are the rounds -- please post results as "Round 1, Match 1" and a final game tally (i.e., 3-0, 1-2, etc.)
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

HiveMindEmulator

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Re: IsoHearth I: Starting Tomorrow
« Reply #98 on: February 09, 2015, 12:17:00 pm »
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Supose more probable win distribution. Here's results for both round robin and double elimination (calculated, not simulated):

Win probabilities
1   0.0   0.6   0.7   0.8
2   0.4   0.0   0.6   0.7
3   0.3   0.4   0.0   0.6
4   0.2   0.3   0.4   0.0
Round robin
Advance
1 0.7651199999999999
2 0.59824
3 0.40175999999999995
4 0.23488
Win
1 0.47312
2 0.28424
3 0.16176000000000004
4 0.08088
Double elimination
Advance
1 0.7858400000000001
2 0.6075466666666668
3 0.39245333333333327
4 0.21416000000000004
Win
1 0.5531754666666664
2 0.2763130666666666
3 0.1245696
4 0.04594186666666668

So both if we need to determine 2 advances and if we need to determine single winner double elimination is better. In case you provided there is no difference between double elimination and round robin - only the fact that however was paired with trash was decided by draw and not by skill, but supposedly skills are same

I'm not sure how you judge that double elimination is better based on that. The winner distribution is lower entropy because more games are played, and by averaging over all potential initial brackets you avoided the major issue which is the impact of the initial matchup. The problem is that the result depends too much on who plays whom first.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: IsoHearth I: Starting Tomorrow
« Reply #99 on: February 09, 2015, 12:18:10 pm »
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Round 1 Match 2 0-3
(mikohoy>kirbyhero)
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